Do American auto workers have an inferiority complex? VW workers get paid $67 an hour in Germany

[pampango]

They make under $20 in the US. GOP lawmakers want to keep it that way

Do American auto workers have an inferiority complex? Do they suffer from such low self esteem that they believe they should be paid significantly less than their counterparts in other countries who build the same cars for the same company? Would they really prefer to have no say whatsoever in how their companies are run, even when their employers are keen to offer them a seat at the table?

There was also no opposition from VW management, who agreed to remain neutral in the process and had even invited UAW representatives onto the factory floor to explain the benefits of organizing. Still, even though their jobs were not under threat and their employers were supportive, a majority of the workers (712 to 626) voted against unionization. Much of the blame for the no vote is being assigned to the right-wing groups and Republican lawmakers in the state, who mounted a relentless, if predictable, anti-union campaign. While this blame is well deserved, the apparent willingness of so many workers to act against their own interests needs to be called into question also.

In Germany, for instance, auto workers at VW plants get paid an average of $67.14 an hour. That's more than double the average hourly rate for an established unionized worker in Detroit, and it's more than three times what the non unionized workers in Chattanooga can hope to earn. According to a company spokesperson, new hires at Chattanooga start at $14.50 an hour, a rate that gradually increases to $19.50 an hour after three years on the job.

Just try to imagine what would happen if German auto workers were told that they would have to accept a major salary cut and give up their many other perks because workers in the US were being paid so much less than them. You can't, right, and that would be because such a situation will never arise. The reason it will never arise is that the Germans have very robust unions and because these unions don't have to operate in a toxic political climate, they are mutually beneficial to workers and management alike, not to mention the broader economy. As Tom Nichols recently argued in the nation:

One of the reasons why Germany has adapted with such agility to the changing economic and structural demands of the globalized economy is the respect that German corporations accord workers.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/19/vw-uaw-tennessee-auto-workers-stupid-or-coerced

VW management and German auto union people must be scratching their heads. I have never heard the $67 an hour number for German auto wages, but I have heard that they pay a lot more than in the US - in the $30-$40 an hour range.

[dipsydoodle]

1. Its difficult to compare the two countries

due to totally different costs of living.

More on the subject in general here : http://www.forbes.com/sites/haydnshaughnessy/2012/05/06/revisiting-how-germany-builds-twice-as-many-cars-as-the-u-s-while-paying-its-workers-twice-as-much/

Outside of the subject of cars and on the subject of different costs living - if rates were equal between say the US and the UK then why would the families USAF forces based in the UK use the PX instead of local shops ?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

2. Not just that--completely different industrial policy

Also, as the manufacturing power house of EU and a net exporter, Germany is in an entirely different economic situation than the US.

Not to mention differences in tax policy.

[pampango]

7. What is Germany''s industrial policy?

... as the manufacturing power house of EU and a net exporter, Germany is in an entirely different economic situation than the US.

Agreed. Germany is an manufacturing power house and does it with strong unions, high wages and a disproportionately high level of trade - all of which certainly represent an "entirely different economic situation then the US" has.

Not to mention differences in tax policy.

Much higher and more progressive taxes than in the US. Is that what you were referring to?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

10. Yes. Those are what I'm referring to.

I am lauding Germany's welfare state, higher taxes and worker protections.

There are a lot of systemic things about Germany that make wages there higher--not just union representation.

[pampango]

12. Agreed.

[Xithras]

16. They also have no minimum wage. They have something MUCH better.

In Germany, there is no minimum wage. What they have, instead, is a law making it illegal for a business to pay an "immoral" wage. If an employer offers you a job for $X per hour, and you realize that the work is very hard and is worth twice that, you can sue them and a court will force them to pay you the difference.

Which means: If 5 auto factories are paying their employees $50 an hour, and a 6th auto factory opens and only pays its employees $20 an hour, the employees in that 6th factory can sue and force the factory owner to pay them more. In Germany, if the pay isn't within 75% of the market rate for that type of work (and 75% is considered extreme, right on the edge of immorality), it's a given that the employer will LOSE. There have been many cases where employers have been within 10% of average and lost. Trying to scrimp on pay is a losing proposition in Germany, and the overall effect has been wage inflation as employers try to stay ahead of the wage curve to avoid costly lawsuits.

This destroys any incentive to undercut wages.

[pampango]

4. One site estimate Germany's cost-of-living at about 15% higher than the US'.

That would not account for German auto workers making 100% more than American workers.

The same site estimates that the take-home pay for all German workers is about 12% less than Americans' so it's not like all Germans make more than Americans to compensate for a high cost of living.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Germany

I did not really understand your question about USAF families using a PX instead of local shops.

[dipsydoodle]

6. That was just a illustration regarding differences in costs of living.

It was a rhetoric question.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. For the se reason

Dependents in Hawaii shop at the PX. Apples, oranges and all that.

[dipsydoodle]

11. Last time I was in the US,

about 3 years ago in NY and OH, I just couldn't believe how cheap all the food was compared with the UK.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. I agree, it is really cheap

Even when compared to San Diego, CA where Dependents also use the PX. Hell, when money is tight I do, as retired we got access.

[Xithras]

13. Yep, you have to index it to something in order to really compare it.

In Tennessee, the minimum wage for auto workers is 7.25 an hour.
In Puebla Mexico (the main North American VW factory), the minimum wage for auto workers is right around 35 cents an hour.
Germany does not have a minimum wage, so we can't really compare.

In the Tennessee VW plant, the average auto worker is paid $19.50 an hour, or a bit over 2.5 times minimum wage.
In the Puebla VW plant, the average auto worker is paid $1.88 an hour, or 5.4 times minimum wage.

Which means, when corrected against minimum wage, Mexican workers make more than twice as much as American workers.

[Politicalboi]

3. I wonder if these idiots who voted no

Knew this. How can anyone turn down a union opportunity.

[arikara]

5. I used to work for an internet company

that was bought out by a German company and they opened a satellite office in Germany so some of our people went over there to work for awhile. The ones working in Germany made more money, had an amazingly beautiful airy bright office with lots of windows where we were crammed into teeny industrial type cubicles; the company cut our vacations back to 2 weeks a year which is the minimum mandated by the labour code increased our work week with no extra pay, and the German satellite started with 6 weeks vacation which is their minimum and had a shorter work week.

It makes you think.

[polichick]

9. The world is watching as brainwashed American workers hand their future...

to the corporations and sociopaths who couldn't care less if they lived or died - or even if there is a planet for their children to inherit.

What will it take for Americans to stop pointing fingers and guns at each other - and start holding the guilty accountable?

[former9thward]

15. Your stats are off.

Germans make $67 in wages and benefits. You just included wages for Americans. With benefits Americans make $34 an hour. German autoworkers don't strike so the auto industry is much more stable. Also the German Constitution mandates 'work councils' in workplaces which means there is far less conflict than in American factories.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2011/12/21/germany-builds-twice-as-many-cars-as-the-u-s-while-paying-its-auto-workers-twice-as-much/

[pampango]

17. They are not my stats. They're from the Guardian. I said in my post that figure did not look right.

As you posted, when wages and benefits are included German auto workers make about twice as much as Americans.

I agree there is far less conflict and strikes in German factories than in the US. Having strong unions and 'work councils' can be a very good thing.