Pussy Riot Members Beaten in Sochi Public Square

[William769]

Just as things seemed to have seemed to be going smoothly in Russia for the contentious Winter Olympics, it seems all hell broke loose in Sochi. Members of the band Pussy Riot (who were already arrested and held for hours without being charged) were in a public plaza in Sochi to film a video for a new protest song called "Putin will teach you how to love your Motherland" and, after beginning the performance, a group of Russian Cossacks branding whips and pepper spray began attacking the group members. As the WaPo reports:

Alyokhina tweeted a photo Wednesday of a young man who had joined the five women for the performance — usually they perform as a feminist collective. He had a bloodied face, an injury Alyokhina said was suffered in the attack. She posted another photo of a woman with red marks on her chest.

Tolokonnikova, who was knocked to the ground and hit with a whip, tweeted that her husband, Pyotr Verzilov, had been taken to the hospital, unable to see because of the pepper spray. And David Khakim, a Sochi environmental activist, tweeted that police detained one man for questioning but let the others go.


“We were attacked by 10 Cossacks and men in civilian clothes,” he tweeted.

http://www.out.com/entertainment/popnography/2014/02/19/watch-pussy-riot-members-beaten-sochi-public-square


WARNING VIOLENCE IN THE VIDEO.

Now those are real men!

Que Russian apologists.

[geek tragedy]

1. they brought back the Cossacks? They're gonna pogrom like it's 18-ninety-nine. nt

[arely staircase]

25. + 1 nt

[sufrommich]

2. I read the RT " reporting" on this incident

this morning,it was a truly vile hit piece. Puke.

[MADem]

5. RT is the television propaganda arm of Vladimir Putin, himself. It's no secret.

Anything that is negative towards his regime gets short shrift. His "news" is not news, it's propaganda. It's not even subtle.

[Adrahil]

7. It is to the putinistas here....

NT

[MADem]

14. Why they wear blinders is the question.

Are they being deliberately obtuse because they don't want to face a difficult reality, or are they just uninformed, naive, a "tabula rasa" when it comes to how nefarious the Pootster is, or are they propaganda shoppers, knowing full well that they're touting a line of bullshit but doing it anyway, for the greater glory of Mother Russia...?

In any event, Pootie's human rights stance is just unacceptable. There's no mitigating that.

[sufrommich]

8. No,it's not subtle at all. It sure has it's

cheerleaders though.

[MADem]

10. Well, they're either naive or "willfully ignorant."

If the latter, well...makes one wonder!

[arely staircase]

26. pussy riot attacks bave cossacks? nt

[sufrommich]

3. Dupe. nt

[MADem]

4. Jesus, those cossacks handle those whips like pre-Civil War slavers!

Who the hell uses a frigging WHIP in this day and age? Billy clubs/night sticks/truncheons are bad enough, but a whip...?

I think these young ladies are going to have to learn to use green screen--otherwise they'll get beaten and harmed repeatedly.

[William769]

6. They refuse to be silenced, under any conditions.

They are true hero's!

[Fred Sanders]

33. Yes, where is the firearm and the taser and the grenades by men in black masks and military gear....

like in America you mean?

[William769]

41. So I take it you support this?

I mean you have not condemned it. Just saying.

[Fred Sanders]

43. Of course I condemn it, if this is genuine, but before Americans start to throw the first stone

it should look in the mirror.

A lot of Russia hating without understanding, and I think looking in the mirror gives the best perspective.

[William769]

45. I have been to many protests and this has never happened to me.

And I will continue to protest. I fail to see the logic in your so called argument.

[Fred Sanders]

120. Because it never happened to you means that it never happened to you, good for you.....

Oakland Police tossed concussion grenades and shot wooden bullets at anti-war protesters and union members, injuring several, on the Oakland docks.

"The police came down the street towards us in a military formation. Protesters actually had decided to take down the picket because our plan was to have a peaceful protest on public property. We were trying to figure out how to disperse because the cops had blocked the entrance that most of us had used to get to the gates of the docks. We began walking away from the police lines, trying to get to the sides of the road. Then police opened fire. People were being shot in the back as they tried to get away. Me and my friend dove into a ditch and she was hit by a rubber bullet. There were people dropping after being hit and there were explosions all around from the police percussion grenades. I was afraid people were being killed. The police were firing indiscriminately at protesters who were fleeing as well as workers who were stopped in their cars in the middle

[Sissyk]

121. Look, Fred.

We know this happens in the US. When it does there are several threads about it. We all condemn the actions of the police here in these situations.

This thread, and this situation, is about Pussy Riot and their being beaten with whips in Russia. Talk about that or go start your own damn thread!

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

124. Why it's Fred -hay there Fred, I see your being Fred as usual !

Oakland police ,my goodness, what in the world does the Oakland police department have to do with the issues surrounding the issue at hand in topic ? I mean holy cow and gee wizz too are you saying what this is ,is not better or worse than it is anyway and anywhere else ?
My point to my question is this,what are you getting at ? Because it seems to look as though you are signing off on the Cossacks .

Back in the 60's here in America some of those cops and even in Oakland Ca. thought it was a criminal offense to have an american flag patch sewn onto the back of your jeans to cover the holes or a hole . And they didn't like those peace symbol patch's either. But there was no law to back up the said offense's,not even in the form of city ordinances, which means those cops were attempting to enforce their own opinions and not the law.
By 1972 the voting age came down from 21 to 18 years of age so, down the avenues of city ordinances ,it didn't seem a wise decision for those city politicians to mess around with the up coming voters because many of those voters liked to sew patches on their jeans that may have seemed unseemly to some people and perfectly acceptable to others ! You see cops wore the flag patch on their sleeves and soldiers at that time were drafted by the selective service draft board.

And if you really can't connect to the issue at hand ,it's more that way with a little Putin backing behind those views or opinions.

By the time 1970 came along cops seemed to change their opinions about those patch's. In other words there was no law to enforce. And even the mayors in all the little cities feared being run out office by those young voters. ! Not to mention the entire city council !

Back than over here it was Nixon and over there today it's Putin at the face of it.
As the saying goes where there is a will there is a way.

Or is it all in how you look at it ?

Human rights I mean.

[uppityperson]

134. Hey, hi! Haven't seen you around recently, hope you are doing well

[MADem]

150. Ah yes, Oakland...where a bunch of assholes broke into city hall, stole a flag, set it on fire, and

committed vandalism. The protesters also tossed stuff at the cops. How soon we forget, how quickly we try, so desperately, to create false equivalence!!

OAKLAND -- Occupy Oakland protesters broke into City Hall, stole an American flag from the City Council chamber and set it on fire Saturday night, punctuating a wild day in which police deployed tear gas, arrested more than 400 marchers and dodged hurling objects.

Demonstrators spent the day trying to break into a convention center and temporarily occupying City Hall and a YMCA, all the while snaking around lines of riot-clad police periodically shooting bean bag projectiles, among other uses of nonlethal force.

Saturday marked the first major clashes between protesters and police since November and left three officers with minor injuries, as protesters threw bottles, metal pipes, rocks, spray cans and "improvised explosive devices," police said.

EXACTLY the same as a bunch of women in brightly colored clothing and knitted balaclavas trying to sing a little ditty in the square.

Yes, no difference at all!!

You're not even subtle.

[Brickbat]

50. What is there to understand about someone getting her ass kicked in public?

[hrmjustin]

53. So we shut up because we have problems here?

[arely staircase]

67. and our problems are nothing approaching

Putin will have you whipped by Cossacks at the Olympics problems.

[theHandpuppet]

163. If that's the case...

...compared to North Korea, we should never complain about anything anywhere ever again and only cute pet photos get posted to DU.

[arely staircase]

167. what the hell does that have to do with Cossacks whipping musicians? nt

[theHandpuppet]

168. Huh?

I was replying to post #53

Not following you. I think we've gotten our wires crossed here.

[arely staircase]

170. possibly

Happens when I am on my mobile.

[theHandpuppet]

171. Yeah, I think we just got our wires crossed

I got to this thread rather late and in my first read-through had a difficult time untangling some of the conversations that had been ongoing. Still am!

Peace!

[Sissyk]

65. I don't quite understand what you are saying.

You think this is Russia hating? You think this didn't happen?

What's your point?

[whopis01]

126. I took your advice and looked in the mirror. Here is what I saw -

I see someone who thinks that police whipping non-violent protestors is wrong. I see someone who thinks using pepper spray and violence against non-violent protestors is wrong. I see someone who is willing to say that it is wrong no matter who is doing it and no matter what anyone else may have done.

I also see that using the "let him who have no sin throw the first stone" to quash legitimate criticism is a bullshit technique designed to distract from the issue at hand.

Can you explain to me what bearing the behavior of anyone in America has on criticism targeted at the police in that video?

[MADem]

143. Say hi to Vladimir for me, now!

Because, ya know, a bunch of brutish guys in uniforms and fur hats whipping and kicking a few women in brightly colored balaclavas in the square is the "same" .....!

[Aerows]

145. They swing them less hard than American police

And that isn't anything our country should be proud of.

[William769]

147. Thats what you have to say in this thread?

UN-FUCKING BELIEVABLE!

[Aerows]

152. The concept of beating people nearly to death

because of their nature is un fucking believable. My apologies if it seems as though I endorsed it, because I don't in anyway, shape or form.

It's just plain unbelievable what we do to each other on this planet.

[Sissyk]

157. I'm glad you clarified that, Aerows.

It did kinda sound like you were saying things are the same here in the US instead of being angry at what has happened to these women.

And yes, it is unbelievable what some do to others. We have to keep speaking out to try to change that.

[Aerows]

159. Sorry that my terse response

came off like it did. Unfortunately, I'm imperfect and say things that sound shitty on occasion . I didn't mean it the way it came off.

[Sissyk]

160. We all do that.

Some of us don't see it necessary to apologize though, as you did.

[MADem]

155. Gee....since when are US police equipped with whips, and when did they start whipping

four or five women, standing alone, not part of a crowd, simply trying to play music in the street?

I guess the cossacks' "kicking 'em when they're down" bit and the hair pulling and arm-wrenching sorta make up for their insufficiency with the whip, is that it?

-- lots of it -- for the irony impaired.

I'll really need some video of that if I'm to believe that accusation. And it better not be video of long dead policeman, culled from sixty year old news footage. And it better not be part of massive demonstrations, either. I want to see some video of 21st Century US police whipping young women for trying to play music in the square....and I'll bet there ain't any in any archive.

I am flummoxed at the frantic desperation that is popping up in this thread--Putin's brutes are behaving in an unacceptable fashion. And people on this thread are trying like hell to distract from that by saying "Waaah--America has had bad cops TOOOOOO!" That's NOT an excuse!

Hell, might as well go with "Leave Pootie alone!" That'll fly just as well as the "Look over here" game...which no one is buying.

[Aerows]

158. My response

may have been terse, and for that, I apologize. Allow me to clarify as a member of the LGBT community that I in no way thought this was okay. I also don't think the actions of some police officers in our country are okay, either.

I'm as fallible as anyone else on occasion at expressing myself.

[MADem]

165. No worries.

Hope you are feeling better, btw.

[tblue37]

169. They are very brave and very determined. I don't think they will be safe.

I desperately hope they will not actually be martyred, but I fear that possibility.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Just the mere presence of Cossacks is not

going well with the locals. Something about genocide and ethnic cleansing in the 19th century.

[William769]

11. Well they seem to have made a come back.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Of course they have

so has the Imperial crest of the Romanovs. The Cossacks were a tool of the Tsar, so was the Church. Any echoes to that are not mere coincidence. But on a serious note, Americans are willfully ignorant of history, not so much people in that area of the world. The Tsar used the cossacks to ethnically cleanse the region. The few descendants of the survivors see them as picking at that scab. Did I mention the cossacks are Orthodox Christian (breakaway) and the locals that the scab is getting pulled are Muslim? Most were thrown into the Otoman empire, by the way.

So these guys going after Pussy Riot, I am not surprised Putin let them out, but I am sure they are going to look for an excuse for internal exile soon. Pussy Riot is a problem, they are exercising that speech a tad too much. Russia has a lot in common with the Romanov era right now.

[treestar]

12. Holy shit

Who throw the guitar into the trash? One of the cops?

[CincyDem]

56. Hell of a way to disrespect a Fender Strat. n/t

[JI7]

15. this country is moving backwards, and all happening during the olympics

[Happyhippychick]

16. These are the bravest women in the world. I hope the whole world is watching.

[William769]

17. Yes they are!

[arely staircase]

27. those who get their news from RT aren't nt

[El_Johns]

102. The bravest women in the world?? Hardly.

[chrisa]

18. Disgusting cretins

[cui bono]

19. Pussy Riot are brave women!

Here's links to their interview with Colbert.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/432806/february-04-2014/pussy-riot-pt--1

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/432807/february-04-2014/pussy-riot-pt--2

[William769]

20. Thanks for the links.

[cui bono]

58. You're welcome!

They have a great sense of humor.

[rgbecker]

21. Nothing like a nice peaceful demonstration.

[AtheistCrusader]

22. In the US they would have been arrested too.

Last edited Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:10 PM - Edit history (2)

So that's weird. They didn't arrest them, just maced and beat them up a little.

Is that normal, in Russia? Get smacked around by a cop and then nothing? In the US you'd be arrested for assaulting the officer's fist with your eye.


Edit: I AM SORRY. I would delete these posts, but it would probably make it worse. The direction this thread fork took was NOT what I was getting at. The whole thing comes off as disruptive and distracting. That was not my intent. I'm sorry, and I will think things through more on these front-burner issues in the future before I say something. There was, to me, an interesting cultural/social delta between what happened in the video, versus what is familiar and also alien to me as an American, too young to have lived through the main thrust of the Civil Rights movement on race, and I wanted to explore that, and it all went to hell in a handbasket. And when I came back and saw what happened, I got defensive and angry about the direction it took.

I am sorry.

[William769]

23. I'm not sure what your trying to say.

I'm sure though, I'm not going to like it.

[Cleita]

28. We did send a 83 year old nun to prison for three years for

staging a protest at a nuclear facility with two other seniors.

[William769]

39. And I'm sure they were beaten too?

[Cleita]

69. So you think it's okay to shackle old women in handcuffs

and then imprison them for exercising their rights to speak up? No the nun wasn't beaten but many women, especially women of color have been beaten up by police in this country for less than speaking up. You should hear some of the stories undocumented women tell of what happens to them at the hands of ICE and the border patrol, but those stories don't make it past the local news if at all in the news because oh well, they broke the law working here.

[William769]

71. Yes they have and thats another thread and I'm sure there were many at the time.

But you wanting to deflect here only makes me draw one conclusion about you. Deal with it.

[Cleita]

81. What conclusion is that?

I hope it's that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. Better clean up our own Gestapo before we criticize theirs. Otherwise, we make ourselves the laughing stock of the world.

[William769]

84. And you expect to be taken seriously with a comment like that.

Let me help you with a little history LGBT were dealt with by Gestapo also.

Using that term saying the U.S. is like that not Only belittles the Holocaust it belittles humanity. Keep digging that hole.

[AtheistCrusader]

122. This is absolutely not the direction I was suggesting.

Fair comparison would be the way the police of the '50's beat black people in the open, in broad daylight, as a form of punishment. That's, I think, part of why the Russia beating these protestors bothers me so much.

Yes, you can be beaten by police in the US, but they have to hide it at least, under the guise of 'stop resisting', etc. And there's a arrest record, and an affidavit by the officer, that identifies the officer, etc.

None of that is present in the Russia video. Those people were beaten like black protestors in the 50's, 60's. No fear. No bother to arrest. They beat them as punishment, which is very disturbing.

I can think of no examples like it in the US during my lifetime. Yes, it has happened, and abuses still happen, but this was a total throwback to civil rights issues 'of old' in the US.


I'm a little annoyed in the direction that my post was taken by other posters. Equivalency or 'don't throw stones' couldn't have been further from my point.

[uppityperson]

131. wtf. Are you seriously saying don't be outraged about anything until "our" issues are all fixed?

Don't be upset about how someone gets abused because someone else is also getting abused?

It seems that is what you are saying.

[Cleita]

135. I said nothing of the sort.

I didn't praise Putin or defend him, nor did I defend the Russian cops and their whips. I did say we need to clean our house before we clean others. I think those women are brave and fearless, so are our women here who have been brutalized by the police, Cindy Sheehan, Medea Benjamin the Occupiers, the 83 year old nun. I'm really amazed at how this has been twisted into something it's not and that our female heroes are so easily dismissed. It's easy to criticize foreigners who beat women, but we are uncomfortable when we see our men doing it to our women. Thats what is happening here and it sickens me.

[uppityperson]

138. "we need to clean our house before we clean others"? Please clarify what you mean as it seems you

are saying don't be outraged about anything until "our" issues are all fixed. Clean our house before others. Please clarify, thank you.


Yes, those women are brave and fearless, like Cindy Sheehan, Medea, the 83 yr old nun and many of my friends who have been arrested.

What is wrong with being "uncomfortable when we see our men doing it to our women" as you state many of us are? Should we be COMFORTABLE seeing OUR men beating OUR women? I do not understand, you seem to be saying that we should only be critical of other places beating their women if we are comfortable with it happening here. I am more confused now.

[Cleita]

140. Boy can you twist things. Your rant isn't even worth

trying to figure out what your point is other than start a fight with me over something that is serious.

[uppityperson]

141. I quote you and ask for clarification and you say I rant? Oh. That is too bad.

I was hoping you would clarify what you meant, sorry for bothering you to ask. Maybe you are just used to people assuming rather than asking you to clarify. I don't know. But quoting you and asking for clarification because you seem to write different things and I am confused is in no way a "rant".

To quote you:
"we need to clean our house before we clean others"
"It's easy to criticize foreigners who beat women, but we are uncomfortable when we see our men doing it to our women. Thats what is happening here and it sickens me. "

I will not ask again for you to clarify as it is obvious you do not care to. Good bye

[MADem]

156. Game. Set. Match! nt

[Bobbie Jo]

166. You have a knack

for nailing shit to the wall.

Done and done.

[TheKentuckian]

149. Nope, plenty of room for outrage but it doesn't mean much when it is only for others

Outrage abroad and excuses and minimizing at home is bullshit as is the cockiness as a society little better within living memory and at times today.

[uppityperson]

151. I agree but do not see people minimizing bullshit here at home. That is my problem, where is that,

who is minimizing and excusing it here?

[TheKentuckian]

172. The Occupy beat down defenders were sickening. The NSA apologists are strong everyday.

The police abuse defenders are never shy.

Prison abuse jokes get plenty of chuckling agreement.

Protest mockery from "the reality based community" isn't hard to come across.

Accountability for the powerful derided as pony seeking purity is a constant theme.

The excuse making and rationalizations for abusing the homeless and the poor is tear invoking.

[sheshe2]

139. What exactly does that have to do the OP?

So we can't respond to a hate crime in Russia before we clean our own house?

Pussy Riot members were beaten and that was a disgusting unprovoked attack. For anyone here to deny that it was about LGBT is unfathomable.

[Cleita]

142. Huh?

Really, I tried to defend a DUer whom was being treated rudely and all of this mountain was created out of a mole hill? Oh that DUer seems to have thrown me under the bus, so I take it back. Be as rude to
him/her as you wish. I'm done.

[AtheistCrusader]

144. That was never my damn point. Not even a little bit.

I've tried to explain it like five times now.

Nor do I need defense. The 'defense' (not just you) actually turned a simple response into a giant subthread, and inflamed... everything. Literally everything. That this fork turned into was never, for one second, my point at all.

[G_j]

148. Terrible, these woman have been through so much.

Disgusting, cowardly bullies

I need to add that I also thought about how protesters can be treated here. How could it not come to mind? I've seen some things on this side of the pond too. That doesn't make this incident less repugnant.

[arely staircase]

72. which is totally like sending in the Cossacks to use whips against musicians.

at the Olympics of all events. Keep trying.

[Cleita]

78. No. It's awful, but the Russians don't have a franchise on

mistreating activist women. Remember Cindy Sheehan being dragged from Congress before the SOTUS because W didn't like her T-shirt or the Occupy protesting women pepper sprayed in the eyes after being caged. There are so many other incidents but I'm sure you know them.

[William769]

79. And yet there was out rage here at the time as their should have been.

But I will say once again your lack of outrage on this subject speaks volumes.

[Cleita]

85. I am outraged. What made you think I wasn't?

Just because I thought your post to another DUer was rude and uncalled for doesn't mean I'm not outraged. Also, you shouldn't be assuming "volumes" from others posts or attempting to mind read. You know what people here thing about woo.

[William769]

89. Because of everything you have posted so far.

So you are going to belittle thin atrocity because you think I was rude to someone else? WOW just WOW!

[Aerows]

153. I'm outraged

I guess I have outrage fatigue anymore because so much fucking injustice happens in this world to the LGBT community. I'm part of it, too for clarification.

Some days it seems like the entire world is going to hell in a hand basket.

[arely staircase]

80. right. lets don't condemn Putin so fast

Other people have done bad things, so its all good.

[Cleita]

83. Condemn him all you like and all those like him like his buddy George W. Bush. n/ t

[William769]

86. WTF?

What does he have to do with this? Seriously seek help.

[Cleita]

87. I will seek help. It's known as ignore.

Welcome to it.

[William769]

91. THANK YOU!

Now I won't have to see a barrage of crap!

[Sissyk]

125. You can ignore me too, then.

You came in this thread making comparisons as if this shameful beating didn't take place. We know what happens here. There are numerous threads on them every other day that get lots of attention.

This one was about PR and Putin's underlings. Not something that happened here.

Do you not get that?

[uppityperson]

132. You can ignore me also as well as everyone who is capable of multi-tasking, being outraged at severa

several situations.

[MADem]

162. Add me to the list, too.

I don't think it's right for cossacks to beat women in the street either, and I have a problem with Putin's treatment of the LGBT community. I don't think it's "OK" and I don't think there are any factors to mitigate his abrogation of human rights.

[NuclearDem]

164. You can add me too.

Oh, too late, beat you to it.

[treestar]

88. In the US at least there would have been a charge

to be tried under law. And the person could sue the police department for mistreatment.

The "US is as bad as Russia" theme has no legs.

[Cleita]

92. How do you know it won't happen?

This is just day one. Here our cases of police brutality take months, even years. I'm sure the Russians have some system of justice and something videoed like this can't be swept under the rug even in totalitarian nations.

[AtheistCrusader]

123. Could you go start your own thread fork with that line of logic please? TIA

[William769]

97. Your banging your head against the wall with this one.

U.S. bad, Russia good! What a crock of shit, smells just like it to.

[Cleita]

136. Jeez no one said that. No one said that.

Are you sure you want to claim that because there is nothing that says that.

[AtheistCrusader]

99. To be clear

When I (inadvertently) started this thread fork, I made no comparison to the US, except in general procedural terms.

I made no moral judgment about the use of force in the US, nor did I try to compare moral exercise of force by either nation.

Just that in the US, when force comes, you ALSO get arrested, and it seemed shocking to me that apparently that is not how it is done in Russia, necessarily.

[AtheistCrusader]

119. I can understand it

especially given that some posters upthread apparently DID make some dismissal/equivalency arguments.

But jesus, I get pulled away for work for an hour and a half, come back, find that people are casting judgments on my post without even a chance to explain...

[uppityperson]

133. seriously. That is like saying liberals should not be upset at bigots as that isn't open minded.

Being angry at being told you should not be upset about one thing because other bad things happen is a very reasonable thing to do.

[AtheistCrusader]

137. I can see how my post was misread.

I can also see two other posters in this thread (one that can no longer post) that actually ran with and defended the idea that was misconstrued from my post.

I can understand the outrage.

[AtheistCrusader]

95. In that particular instance, they may have been treated a bit more gently.

I'm not sure.

These folks were maced, and then arrested.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmg7kx_uc-davis-campus-police-crime-mace-spraying-students_news

The Tacoma Port protestors, trying to stymie military gear sent to Iraq, were peaceful, they got picked up by their hair, maced, their 'links' cut apart, and arrested.

In almost every American protest incident I can think of, in which the officers begin to deploy force, you ALSO get arrested if they can get their hands on you.

[AtheistCrusader]

93. I'm saying, I'm surprised they weren't also arrested.

In similar circumstances, in the US, you get maced, beated, AND arrested. Even for passive non-resistance.

Trumped charge is usually 'assaulting an officer' even if the 'assault' was 'your face' getting 'in the way' of the officer's fist, sometimes several times.


I'm used to seeing protestors abused, beaten, maced, etc. I'm not used to seeing them walk away after the abuse.

It's just ... weird to me. Here, when it escalates to the point that an officer uses force, you are going to spend the night in jail too. Almost without exception.

[Fred Sanders]

31. The Sochi police (Cossacks is just the nickname) have special limited legal authority to stop all

political protest during the Olympic Games, not unsimilar to the banning in America during G10 summits.....

[William769]

37. Were they beaten with whips?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Fred Sanders]

40. They were not detained, apples and oranges, but they did not lose their liberty.

[William769]

42. Answer the fucking question and don't change the subject!

Do I need to post the definition of a internet troll?

[Fred Sanders]

44. The definition might include looking in the mirror, given your temperment matches the definition-sir

[William769]

49. When people get the shit beat out of them for being LGBT

Your God Damn fucking right my I have a temper especially when some one comes into a and does not address the question at hand. Is that to fucking hard to understand?

[El_Johns]

100. They didn't get the shit beat out of them. And it wasn't for being LGBT.

[William769]

101. Oh?

Due tell. Please I am begging you.

[El_Johns]

106. You're talking about the video in the OP? I think it's self-evident.

[William769]

109. No it's not.

Do you know why they are protesting? Being beaten with whips is nothing? WOW just WOW!

[sheshe2]

113. And you know this, how? nt

[hrmjustin]

57. The more I look back I think I made a mistake in mirt.

I said leave and I should not have. Sorry Bill.

[William769]

60. Well I was right on the money.

[hrmjustin]

61. Yes you were and still are. Again I am so sorry.

[William769]

62. You did what you thought was right at the time.

[hrmjustin]

63. Thanks!

[Bobbie Jo]

111. You usually are, as I recall.

[William769]

112. Thanks.

[Sissyk]

127. I think we all did, justin.

Never to late to right a wrong, if you know what I mean.

[hrmjustin]

128. That is true it can still be corrected. I hope it is soon.

[AtheistCrusader]

96. What is your deal?

Why the instant hostility to everyone in this thread?

Pretty sure you misconstrued the meaning of my original post. I wasn't even saying 'America is just as bad' though we DO have our own problems. It was just an observation on the surreal outcome; the officers in the Sochi video beat, maced, and otherwise abused the protestors, but I didn't see them bother to arrest, or even escort away from the area, any of the protestors.

Isn't that weird?

Here, an officer hits you in the head with a nightstick (We don't have whips, and we had to ban SPD from carrying 4+ D-Cell flashlights for cracking heads with them) you are going to be arrested and charged with something.

There, the physical violence is there, but... they just walked away.

That's surreal. I didn't and don't know what to make of it.

[William769]

98. The question is what's your deal? Side stepping whats actually happened to harp on something else.

[AtheistCrusader]

104. I just explained it.

I didn't harp on anything. Try re-reading my post.

I did not accuse the US of anything. I did not dismiss the Russian behavior as better or worse than ours. I did not make a moral judgment about the US's procedures, nothing.


I only observed that in the US, when an officer uses force, you are ALSO going to jail, pretty much without exception. The fact that the Russian police used force, but did not (apparently) arrest anyone, is disturbing to me.


There are multiple associated implications:

1. No arrest, no police report.
2. No police report, little to no evidence the abuse occurred at all.
3. No police report, no idea who the police officers are, so, not much the victims can do to complain to whatever oversight over the police may exist.

Basically the victims have the entire deck stacked against them. They would have to prove that they were THERE, that they were abused, WHO abused them, before going anywhere with that.

The whole thing is just crazy.

[William769]

105. Could have fooled me.

[AtheistCrusader]

108. You might consider asking for clarification before you jump on someone's ass

because yes, you were apparently 'fooled'.

I never intended for this thread fork to go this way, and I absolutely did NOT expect to find this entire mess when I came back to my desk.

[William769]

110. I got all the clarification I needed.

But thanks for asking.

[AtheistCrusader]

117. I don't know what that means.

I made a simple observation, for fuck's sake. That's all.

[Sissyk]

68. I think you meant to take a right turn.

FR is that way.

Do you believe they were beaten?

[AtheistCrusader]

130. I think being terrorized by the 'police' has liberty implications.

[arely staircase]

34. yeah cossacks with whips just like here

[pangaia]

35. Yes, there is something very..weird about the whole thing..

Something seems a little, out of kilter.. not sure what it is...

[William769]

38. Can you elaborate?

[pangaia]

51. Not really, I wasn't there to really know what was going on...

I don't know how the Russian 'Cossasks' usually behave..
something surreal about it...
probably nothing, just my imagination...

bunch of shits, thought, that's for sure...

[arely staircase]

76. well it isn't your usual olympic event nt

[William769]

77. Are you sure? given that it's in Russia.

[one_voice]

24. What in the holy fuckin' hell!?!?!?

Those cossacks look like something out of Spartacus.

These women are very brave. Heroes!

On one hand I think it was a mistake to have the Olympics in Russia, on the other, at least it's shining a light on what goes on there. BUT, I don't think it will matter how many people condemn; Putin is a egomaniac, it will probably embolden their actions.

So I'm back to..the hand that wants to know who were the jackasses that thought that Russia would be a good idea.

[William769]

36. I can't believe some of the fucking apologists in this thread.

Do they even realize how fucking stupid they look?

[one_voice]

64. There are two possible answers....

1. Yes they know and don't give a flying fuck because they approve. So they keep showing their ass.

2. No, they don't, hence showing their ass.

Either way they need to take their bigoted opinions and apologies somewhere else. Or get educated then speak on the issue.

I'm sorry you have to deal with asshats! :hugs:

[arely staircase]

70. really?

The RT frequent flyers club?

[William769]

75. Don't forget the Homophobic flyers club either.

Or the woman hater's flyers club.

This thread seems to be fly paper to catch them.

[Fred Sanders]

29. Compared to the pepper spraying and ARREST of peaceful Occupy protestors in America not too

long ago, fairly mild.

[hrmjustin]

66. Are you excusing it?

[stevenleser]

30. Go Pussy Riot! Oh, and good thing Snowden went to Russia to show us how bad the US is.

I'm sure Greenwald and Snowden will be issuing a condemnation of this any time now...

Glenn? Edward?

[davidn3600]

48. Because we all know American cops are so much better..our cops never break up peaceful protests!

[stevenleser]

55. Oh Sure, this is the same thing. No its not. Absolutely no investigation into this will happen.

Will these folks who broke up the protest and beat these people be punished? Fired? Will the incident even be investigated? Chances are slim to none on all counts. For comparison's sake, the Police officer who pepper sprayed the Occupy protesters was fired.

Not only will nothing happen to the folks who beat these girls, chances are good that if any journalist in Russia attempts to do a story on it, they will get a bullet in the head for their efforts. But its just the same, keep telling yourself.

[davidn3600]

59. "Suspended with pay pending investigation"

That's the punishment American police get when they step over the line... a free vacation for a few weeks and then the courts say the officers "acted within reason" and they keep their jobs.

Our cops also hate when you film them. They will make up a charge to stop you. They dont care if the courts say you can do it.

[ismnotwasm]

32. That just disgusting.

Как о вас поцеловать меня в задницу Cossacks?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

46. Now that Russian hockey team has done so poorly, Putin says, "It's ON!"

and his 5 minutes of gentlemanly charm are over. He's the abusive guy back to his old ways.

[riderinthestorm]

47. Those women are so brave! K&R for their protest! (not the fucking goons) nt

[Berlum]

52. The Pooty Poot is hitting the fan: beat Pussy Riot, lose at Hockey

Pooty Poot's doing Major Fail with his degenerate War-on-Women Republicon Values (RuskiStyle).

[LongTomH]

54. Someone needs to do a photoshop animation of Vlad Putin morphing into Joe Stalin

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. No, not Joe, this guy

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Nicholas_II,_Tsar.jpg



(Nicholas II)

[ck4829]

74. "Putin will teach you how to love your Motherland", what a song to repress people to!

Kind of surreal, do these psychopaths think the rest of the world doesn't see what they are doing to people expressing their opinions?

[Jack Rabbit]

82. Since Putin doesn't seem to appreciate Pussy Riot, let's give him some Spike Jones

This is dedicated to Vladimir Vladimirovich. It was originally about another dictator who sent organized reprobates out to beat up dissidents or designated scapegoats.
[center]

[/center]

[lanlady]

90. The Russian Taliban

Absolutely disgusting.

[sheshe2]

103. Yeah, real tough guys. Despicable!

Aisya Krugovikh, a member of the band's entourage, said that during the altercation, some Cossacks yelled that Pussy Riot members should "shut their mouths," adding "you sold yourselves to the Americans."

CNN has repeatedly tried to contact Russian city officials by telephone and e-mail for comment on the allegations.

A man in a Cossack uniform attacks Pussy Riot band member Nadezhda Tolokonnikova and a photographer during a protest performance in Sochi, Russia, on Wednesday, February 19. The band said it was attacked by security officials while trying to perform a new song called "Putin teaches us to love our motherland" at the main port in Sochi.



Tolokonnikova is pulled away after the protest performance.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/19/world/russia-sochi-pussy-riot/

[William769]

107. Get a load of this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4530782

[sheshe2]

115. Oh yeah, saw that little gem!

Guess they don't know the definition of beaten!

[William769]

116. Or who Pussy Riot is.

[sheshe2]

118. True, that. Yet to some ignorance is bliss.

I've read through the thread, William. A lot of denial going on here.

[LeftyMom]

129. Her last account got banned for defending North Korea.

Really.

[treestar]

154. OH, now that rings a bell!

[theHandpuppet]

161. And if this is how the jackboots are acting now...

... even under the global scrutiny of the Olympics, I fear it will only get much, much worse once all the cameras and tourists have left. I'd say you could probably bet on it.