Let's talk about who the protestors are in Ukraine

[cali]

This is from former PM Prodi's piece in the NYT today.

Romano Prodi, the prime minister of Italy from 1996 to 1998 and from 2006 to 2008, and the president of the European Commission from 1999 to 2004, is the United Nations special envoy for the Sahel region of Africa.

<snip>

But the West must make clear to Moscow that Ukraine — a bridge between East and West — should not be the object of geopolitical games. European leaders should back down from their threats of sanctions against Ukraine and its embattled president, Viktor F. Yanukovych, which would only prolong the suffering of the Ukrainian people. But Russian interference in Ukraine’s internal affairs must not be tolerated.

Only a few weeks ago, there were signs of progress in Ukraine, with the government offering concessions to the protesters while working to restore order. Mr. Yanukovych’s government passed an amnesty law, released detained protesters and introduced legislation to amend the Constitution to place greater power with the Parliament. Protesters began to vacate government buildings, and the country seemed to be stepping back from the brink.

But now the demonstrations have taken a new, dangerous turn. Reversing the previous progress, radical agents began to attack police, start fires, seize buildings and create an environment of destruction.

There can be no forgiveness or leniency for those who provoke violence and the loss of human life, whether they are street thugs or misguided nationalists.


But there is also a violent faction, which is occupying government buildings and attacking police officers with guns and explosives. It includes far-right nationalist groups like Right Sector, a new extremist movement, and Svoboda, an openly anti-Semitic group that is now the country’s third-largest opposition party. (The party, which first won seats in Parliament in 2012, had a paramilitary wing until it was disbanded in 2004.)


<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/21/opinion/prodi-how-ukraine-can-be-saved.html?_r=0

[Purveyor]

1. kick. Thanks for posting. +1 eom

[Pretzel_Warrior]

2. It is hilarious how the OWS crowd here is ready to

Delegitimize Ukrainian protesters as all right wing thugs and/or a bunch of outside provacateurs.

How hypocritical.

[cali]

4. first of all, let's be clear on where I stand:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024533882

I posted that earlier today.

I try to actually inform myself before drawing conclusions, and the case of Ukraine, this is a complex situation with bad people on both sides- and presumably good folks on both sides as well. Not so simple to make a judgment.

Secondly, Prodi isn't an "OWS" person, but he's certainly knowledgeable about the situation.

I personally don't support far right and anti-semitic parties, though I may support others protesting.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

8. Thanks. This can be like global warming

The cynical leaders such as Putin, Assad, and others can introduce enough doubt about source of and participants in protests and bloodshed to keep other nations from taking actions against their brutal oppression of dissent.

[cali]

10. ack. nevermind. one day perhaps, you'll get caught by a sudden attack of

thoughtfulness.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

3. It's actually a huge swath of Ukrainians.

Anyone attempting to pigeon hole the protesters as being predominantly any certain group, or being pushed by any one group or interest, should be distrusted.

And yes, there are some far right ultranationalists in that huge swath, and I'm sure they would love to use the protests as a means to push their own agenda. That doesn't mean they are guiding the protests. It's an organic protest of Ukrainians who mainly are upset at government corruption and creeping influence by their big neighbor.

[cali]

5. I don't know enough to draw any conclusions

I don't know how organic the protests are and I don't know how you know that either.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

7. I have family in Ukraine.

They have been involved in the protests firsthand. A cousin of mine is actually providing medical care in Kyiv.

None of them are right wing ultranationlists. Nor are they working at the behest of the EU or CIA. Frankly, it's insulting to read opinions here at DU that insist that's what's pushing these protests.

Not saying that's you, Cali. But others have been doing just that.

[cali]

9. and there's someone posting here who has lived there for years

and he make other claims.

As I said I don't know. I'm sure there are great people there, but I have no reason to think Prodi is lying and he certainly has a lot of expertise, so I'm sure he's also right. things aren't always either/or.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024526436

[Tommy_Carcetti]

11. Yeah, he's lived there for 8 years.

I've got family roots that go back in Ukraine for centuries.

[Jenoch]

15. I have relatives in Lviv qnd got

an e-mail from a cousin there. None of my family is in Kiev, but I was told that the army post in Lviv has been burned so they would be unable to go to Kiev. The trains between Kiev and west Ukraine have stopped running.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

6. Exactly.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

12. why did you leave this line out? it's pretty key

Many or even most of the protesters are sincere and want a peaceful Ukraine that is stable and democratic.

[pampango]

14. "... most of the protesters are sincere and want a peaceful Ukraine that is stable and democratic."

That is kind of important.

[Blue_Tires]

13. From the BBC:

The leaders of the three opposition parties in parliament - Vitali Klitschko of the pro-EU Udar movement; Arseniy Yatsenyuk of the main opposition Fatherland; and Oleh Tyahnybok of the far-right Svoboda - have been on the Maidan, attempting to direct the protests and trying to present a united front.

But these leaders appear not to enjoy the full trust of many protesters. The Fatherland party, in particular, is tainted by its recent years in government and seen by some as part of the political establishment.

Some radical right-wing groups, like Right Sector and Common Cause, have been at the forefront of clashes with police, though it is not clear how much support they have.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25182823