Another Dunn Juror (#8) speaks out

[alsame]

Last edited Thu Feb 20, 2014, 08:36 PM - Edit history (2)

FYI - 21 year old African American, she wanted Murder 2


Michael Dunn Juror: Race Was Never a Factor in the Verdict

One of the jurors who convicted Michael Dunn of attempted murder after he fired a series of shots into an SUV full of black teenagers following a dispute over their playing loud rap music broke her silence on Thursday. Speaking exclusively with CNN, Juror number 8, an African-American, told CNN that those who believe that race played a role in the jury’s decision not to convict Dunn of the premeditated killing of Jordan Davis were misinformed.

“I never once thought about, ‘Oh, this was a black kid, this was a white guy.’ Because that was – that wasn’t the case,” juror number 8, aged 21, told CNN reporter Alina Machado.

“So, for people who say, you know, here’s another white guy who got away with shooting and killing a black kid, what would you tell them?” Machado asked.

“I would tell them that they really should knowledge themselves on the law,” Miles replied.

VIDEO AT LINK

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/michael-dunn-juror-race-was-never-a-factor-in-the-verdict/

[Boom Sound 416]

1. ...

[AnalystInParadise]

7. I am looking

forward to this thread and the silence/and or attempts to label this woman not authentically real in regards to racial matters.

Definition of irony: Two jurors in a court cases involving different races saying that race was not a factor, and a group of other people on a message board screaming that it must be racism and anyone who disagrees is also potentially a racist.

One word: Vindication

[Boom Sound 416]

8. I'm so with you I'm sitting next to you

Crow is a dish served

Anywhere but here

[kelliekat44]

133. Really? She's lying or brain dead. nt

[AnalystInParadise]

136. Right

Because there is no way it could be anything other than what you believe. Such arrogance.

[pipoman]

137. or

Wasn't in the jury room at all. .oh, wait. .that would be you. .

[Yo_Mama]

148. Oh, don't abuse this woman

Would you like to rephrase this as a claim that perhaps she doesn't know what was in the minds of all the jurors?

Because that is true, whereas she is evidently not brain dead, and what motive she could have for lying is beyond me.

[nomorenomore08]

163. It's her opinion. I think she's wrong, but I'm not going to sit here and slander her.

[JJChambers]

2. Shocking!

People jumped to conclusions without knowing the facts. A lot of posters on here made that argument -- that race wasn't a factor and that the jurors were hunt up on various points of law, such as first degree vs second degree, and even some who said that the argument of self defense could have been a factor. This Juror shows us how dangerous it is to jump to conclusions.

"“I would tell them that they really should knowledge themselves on the law,” Miles replied."

Well said, Juror #8! And thank you sincerely for your service.

[bettyellen]

127. you didn't know 2-3 jurors wanted to acquit on self defense? and some to acquit on ALL charges?

look up the other interview, and the jurors questions. some jurors wanted him to get away with ALL of it.

[TorchTheWitch]

144. you look at the jurors questions concerning self-defense

There was no indication whatsoever that those questions meant that there was a single one of them that wanted to acquit Dunn on the attempted murder charges. I'd bet cash money that they were terrified they would have to hang or acquit on the attempt charges concerning the other kids in the car if they couldn't agree on the murder charge. And look what happened after their questions were sufficiently answered by the judge after his long discussion with the attorneys concerning how to best answer those questions - very quickly they came back with 2nd degree attempted murder guilty verdicts for those surviving kids as well as the least charge of firing into a vehicle. Those questions had to do solely with how they were to apply the law for each individual in the car concerning what they had learned about the two sets of gun shots at the car when in was in retreat. NO ONE wanted to acquit on ALL charges.

Jesus, if not even one of the black members of the jury can convince you that none of the jurors wanted to acquit because of racism and certainly didn't want to acquit him on the attempted murder charges and the least charge of firing into a vehicle since we KNOW that soon after those questions got answered they returned guilty verdicts on all of those then you're just unwilling to be a grown up and admit you were wrong.

The interview with the first juror to speak out also insisted race was never a factor and there was NO ONE that wanted to acquit on all the charges. There were first two and then three that believed for whatever stupid reason that Dunn should be acquitted ONLY on the murder charge. It was that murder charge that was the reason for all the hours of argument between them, not ALL of the charges.

Juror interview...

#t=31

Juror questions concerning self-defense...

[bettyellen]

147. the evry idea of using self defense to acquit on the attempted murder charges came from some juror..

not from anything said at trial. I'm sorry to say it indicates that some juror was floating the crazy idea that shooting fleeing a group of kids in the back is okay if you were ever scared for a moment, of any of them. I don't think for a moment any juror itching to let Dunn off would admit it's because of their racism. I am surprised anyone thinks they would admit it. The obviously racist juror in Zimmerman's trial was too stupid to realize she was admitting her racism. Most people are a bit more careful than that.

[TorchTheWitch]

159. Bullshit it did

Watch that interview with the first juror your own self - she specifically stated that NO ONE wanted to acquit on the attempt charges. NO ONE.

Watch that video I gave you of the judge and attorneys talking about the self-defense questions and apply that to how quickly they came back with the guilty verdicts on those charges and also apply that to how long they argued viciously .

You have no idea why the first two jurors and then a third wanted to acquit for ONLY the murder charges, and that juror interview with the first one that came forward explained why - the letter of the language of the specific instruction they were given (#25) that stated that if MICHAEL DUNN personally felt his life was in danger they should acquit which is exactly what is wrong with the law since the lame ass horribly written SYG law that is incorporated into Florida's self-defense laws - instead of it being a "reasonable person's" standard it's now if the defendant PERSONALLY felt it was reasonable (which doesn't come close to a "reasonable person's" standard). Two and then a third juror went with the letter of the law in that instruction and for some stupid ass reason (we know not what) believed that Dunn was in fear of his life though it was not a "reasonable person's" fear.

Dunn testifying himself came off a hell of a lot better than I would have expected, and he did sound sincere when he said that he was in fear of his life... but that's the problem with liars - some can sound very truthful. In just about any murder trial you're still going to likely get at least one juror that is so hung up on what "beyond a reasonable doubt" means that damn near anything can be considered not beyond a reasonable doubt because everyone's threshold of what "reasonable" means is different, and for some people means practically nothing is not reasonable.

It's really such a damn insult to make yourself to be oh so much smarter than any person that was on that jury and when THEY know what they argued about and YOU don't assuming that not a one of them could see through hours and hours of vicious arguing and not be able to spot a racist trying to manufacture a plausible argument to cover up their racism. Come on, you believe that only you and some other people on DU have some amazing gift to spot a racist more than anyone else on the planet, and all these jurors that were doing the actual fighting to convict Dunn weren't seeing it and weren't specifically LOOKING for it as a wedge to win that argument?

How do you explain that the three people that wanted to acquit Dunn of the murder charge only became three people when it had been only two at some point during their arguing... did that one person that was persuaded by whatever argument the two jurors used to persuade other jurors to their side suddenly just magically become a racist??? Or is it far more reasonable that whatever the two argued in order to persuade that one other person actually have some merit that convinced them?

We get it already, you and some others here will fall all over yourselves to get racism of the jurors in there SOMEHOW no matter how stupid and ridiculous the argument now that two jurors have come out and SAID what happened in that jury room just so you don't have to admit you were wrong.

As for the Zimmerman trial, the far larger problem was that same wording in the jury instructions thanks to a horribly written SYG law in Florida. Yes, that one juror that spoke out should never have been on the jury in the first place, but to believe they ALL believed as she did and not the letter of the language of that law that they believed locked them into acquitting him. It's the specific language of that instruction that is a huge problem with the self-defense laws in Florida because it is no longer a "reasonable person's" standard but a specific standard that the DEFENDANT felt was reasonable... regardless of how unreasonable that defendant was when they killed someone.

[6000eliot]

171. Sorry, but this sounds just as much like unacknowledged racism as the juror's explanation does.

[loudsue]

3. I personally know 3 20-something black women who are rightwing republicans.

One of them worked in Condi Rice's department when she was Secy of State. Well, she's in her early 30's now, but rightwing as they come.

I don't trust this black woman who says it wasn't white on black shooting racism. I think Dunn was a racist, as well as a complete dick.

[Isoldeblue]

28. I agree

I had the same thoughts, reading this.

[Enrique]

51. which is the more important factor to you?

the fact that the juror is black? Or that she was there in the jury and she heard all the evidence and participated in all the deliberations?

To me it's no contests which is more important.

[alsame]

104. She wasn't talking about the

shooting. She was talking about her own personal verdict decision, which she based on the evidence rather than race.

[Diamonique]

143. I totally agree!!

I believe racism had everything to do with Dunn's actions that day. And it's the basis for his self-defense lies and the reason some jurors wanted a not-guilty verdict, even if they don't realize it themselves.

[Blue_Tires]

4. Removing race from the equation still doesn't excuse their inability to convict...

[bravenak]

19. This juror didn't hear the phone calls or read the letters.

I want to hear from the black juror that wanted to aquit Dunn of all charges.

[Blue_Tires]

23. There must be something in the water in Florida...

either that or the juror has a pathological obsession with always being contrarian...

[bravenak]

36. I feel bad for her for some reason.

There are people who are completely oblivious to what's going on around them.

[Boom Sound 416]

65. Yeah.

I feel bad for people who were there, who don't know anything and even worse for us who were no where near it and know everything.

Damn.

[bravenak]

69. Told you you were funny.

[Boom Sound 416]

71. Funny cuz it's true

[bravenak]

78. Hell yeah!

High five!!

[Boom Sound 416]

80. Dude,

Then why would you say things like that.

How can we agree and disagree on the same thing

You're staring to freak me out

[bravenak]

89. Sometimes I say stupid shit.

Oh well.

[Boom Sound 416]

97. Alright,

That's cool in the gang

[pipoman]

138. Do you mean. .

[Boom Sound 416]

141. Hells yeah

[Captain Stern]

83. I don't get what you're saying.

There weren't any black jurors that voted to acquit Dunn on all charges. There weren't any jurors at all that voted to acquit Dunn on all charges.

[bettyellen]

119. some juror had them ask the judge if they could consider ALL the shootings self defense-

so yeah- someone wanted to discuss acquitting him for all of it.

[bravenak]

120. You missed part of the trial.

Three jurors wanted to know if they could tie the self defense claim about Jordan to the other kids, but the judge said each charge was separate. Those are the same jurors that wanted to acquit him for murdering Jordan.
Since self defense could not be claimed against the other boys, those three had no choice but to convict Dunn for attempted murder, or at least that's what I got from the other jurors statement.

[freshwest]

130. For her part, and perhaps others in the jury, it may not have been a factor. But it was with Dunn.

Other than being an all creep and swindler, he was an up close and personal bigot. And people understand power, and privilege, even if it's not in so much words.

He figured he could get away with it, the same as abusing his Latina spouses physically, mentally, emotionally as well as sexually. And threatening to have them deported if they didn't give into his sick ideas.

He is a disgusting person.

And his animus toward blacks who he called 'thugs' were a sign of no remorse for his own actions before the killing and after. He bragged about messing others over, had a keen sense of how he could game the system.

He also said he really wanted to get a chance to use his gun on someone. One can't say 'killing blacks to teach them a lesson' isn't racist. I'm sure the juror didn't know that, as those statements were not allowed in court.

I understand that, and jury instructions are complicated and require a jury to come up with a verdict that may not meet their own gut feelings or personal logic. She didn't explain why the jurors that wanted to acquit him thought that way.

In any case, this isn't over and there will be another trial on the murder of Jordan.

[bravenak]

134. I hope everyone in Florida has heard about the jail letters by now.

May the next jury have an easier time convicting him. The way it looked to me from my perspective, Dunns girlfriend was scared of him herself and I'm sure she's had he's not coming home to her.

I shudder to think what may have happened if the jurors were allowed to tie the self defence claim to the other boys. That man would be walking the streets right now, pending another trial.

[Boom Sound 416]

142. Letters may not be admissible

[bravenak]

150. I mean that they watch the news.

Of at least watch Nancy Grace screeching about this case.

[TorchTheWitch]

146. there wasn't a juror that wanted to acquit on all charges

Damn, where do people get there information about this case - here? Other than the fact that the first juror to speak out said specifically that there was NO ONE that wanted to acquit on all charges, the fact that once they had their questions answered concerning that very thing they returned guilty verdicts on all of the charges except the murder charge very soon after.

[bravenak]

155. We get that information from the fact that there were 3 jurors that wanted to know if self defense

Claims for murdering carried over to the other three attempted murder charges. The judge told them that they have to be separate self defense claims against each young man. They then had to convict for attempted murder. Three jurors were holdouts and believed Dunns manufactured tale about being in fear for his life against Jordan and voted not to convict on any murder charges. The other jurors wanted a murder conviction. Hence the hung jury.

That's where we get that from. The jurors that spoke said these things.

[TorchTheWitch]

153. all the jurors heard all the same evidence

If those phone calls or letters weren't allowed into the trial then the judge didn't allow them in for whatever legal reasons. At least one letter definitely was let in as part of the totality of the evidence. What, now we're going to pretend that some jurors didn't get to see or hear all the evidence somehow?

There was NO juror that wanted to acquit Dunn of all charges. See the interview of the first juror that came forward which I already posted in this thread, also see that after they got their questions answered by the judge how to apply the law concerning those other charges they very quickly came back with guilty verdicts for all of those. There was no juror that wanted to acquit Dunn on all the charges. Not one.

[Sissyk]

57. Bingo!!

[Pretzel_Warrior]

5. I'm gonna go knowledge myself on the law

or just gnaw on a lawbook.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

6. "Knowledge themselves"? nt

[Boom Sound 416]

39. That's a cheap shot

And cowardly

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

68. Incorrect.

Rule 2
The placement of question marks with quotes follows logic. If a question is in quotation marks, the question mark should be placed inside the quotation marks.

Examples:
She asked, "Will you still be my friend?"

Do you agree with the saying, "All's fair in love and war"?
Here the question is outside the quote.

https://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

[Boom Sound 416]

70. I stand corrected

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

86. So it follows the second example. nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

81. I don't have a problem saying it to the guy's face.

I'd also tell you what you can do with your cowardly comment to yours.

[Boom Sound 416]

84. She's a woman first of all Internet Tough Guy

It's totally cowardice and if she were white I'm sure you'd be calling her a racist too.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

91. The "tough guy" here is the one making douchey comments when

a simple question was asked. I would also tell you what you can do with your right wing paranoid comments about what I'd say if she were white.

[Boom Sound 416]

93. Right

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

98. Exactly. nt

[Thor_MN]

103. "Knowledge themselves" grates as much as "Growing the business"

I hope to hell that does not catch on as a phrase.

[Eleanors38]

149. I think it's cool. Same category as opposing "Hateration."

[Thor_MN]

162. To my ears, it's sounds ironically ignorant.

Maybe it will catch on, but I hope not.

[Eleanors38]

165. Noun used as verb.

[Thor_MN]

166. Yes, novel uses keep popping up. Some die, some become "permanent".

Due to it's nature, I want "knowledge themselves" to go away, but no one controls language. I recall my nephew using "tight" where "uptight" would make more sense to me. That one seemed to run its course and die.

Another one I've heard recently is "ship", derived from relationship, I guess. As in "I would ship them", meaning "I could see them in a relationship". I don't mind that one.

[Boom Sound 416]

169. It's connotation feels derogatory

[AnalystInParadise]

9. I am betting

this thread sinks like a stone, because the vast majority will never admit they were wrong.

[Lost_Count]

11. Dollars to donuts you are right...

[Boom Sound 416]

12. A lot of dollars

Even still more

[Kingofalldems]

111. Oops, guess it didn't sink.

[Lost_Count]

129. Glad to be proven wrong...

[AnalystInParadise]

132. Same here

n/t

[Boom Sound 416]

27. On second thought

Maybe it just needs a little kicking

[840high]

131. kick

[elleng]

56. Hasn't sunk,

but as to 'never admit they were wrong,' correct.

[cui bono]

116. What is this thread supposed to be proving?

[AnalystInParadise]

135. That it is possible and likely

that the jury made their decision on the 1st degree murder charge based on the evidence, not some bullshit speculation that it was racism

[MoonRiver]

10. She didn't hear Dunn's taped phone calls to his gf.

If she had she'd know it absolutely WAS about race.

[alsame]

15. And she is speaking only for herself. I'd like

to hear from the 3 who wanted to acquit, not that they'd ever admit it was racial.

[FiveGoodMen]

152. Exactly.

[SalviaBlue]

16. ^^^^^^^^^

[WinkyDink]

13. It was a racist hate crime, even if the jurors didn't think so.

[AnalystInParadise]

21. Too bad

you aren't in charge of all laws, the world would be a better place

Seriously though, are you really trying to say that the jury was too stupid to understand the crime committed? Because that is ludicrous.

[Gravitycollapse]

34. I'll say the jury was too stupid to understand the crime committed.

You seem to want to pick a fight in this thread and I'm more than willing to set this thing in motion.

[bravenak]

41. The juror was too stupid to understand what was going on.

She should knowledge herself.

[uponit7771]

47. The jury is talking about her own decisions that she did not enter race into her own decision

She is not talking about the others decision she is only talking about what she thought race could have been a factor in the others decisions

[bravenak]

60. I'm just mad at her word usage. I shouldn't be such an asshole.

Our schools systems are not educating our children effectively as evidenced by the phrase 'knowledge themselves'.

That was mean though, I should have more sympathy, it's not her fault.

Reminds me of My Fair Lady where Professor Higgins was singing about why can't the English teach their children how to speak.

I'm the old guy who gets all riled up about word usage when it suits me. It's a terrible affiction, I must overcome it.

[uponit7771]

72. You're right, I can't take her seriously at the end but with cuts in education etc...

... how in the world can the onus be placed on her.

On the article I place all the onus on making such a misleading title... she's talking about herself...

The title in the article makes it look like she's talking about everyone in the jury pool

[bravenak]

123. Yeah she was speaking for herself, only.

She wasn't trying to play mind reader. I'll just wait to see what the other jurors have to say when they pop up. I'm sure they will now.

[Fumesucker]

88. "Our school systems", not "our schoolS systems"

Nitpicky I know, but none of is is perfect.

And yeah, I probably messed up the quotes somehow.

I did understand what she meant at least.

[pintobean]

96. "none of is is perfect"

I'm is.

[Thor_MN]

105. So are I.

[cui bono]

117. That depends on what the definition of "is" is.

[bravenak]

121. I have no idea why I put that s there.

Just proves my point, though. Our school system sucks, man. I'm the evidence!!

[Ikonoklast]

76. Have you heard from every juror yet? What was their reasoning?

You are absolutely certain, based on what one juror has stated that racism was not involved in her own decision-making process, that racism was not a factor in all the4 other juror's voting?

You assume a great deal from little or no evidence.

[AnalystInParadise]

99. As does everyone claiming racism

n/t

[Ikonoklast]

101. Then you are the same as those you taunt.

At least they have a basis for supporting their position of institutional racism in jury verdicts based on the political, social, and legal history of this nation.

You're just being disingenuous as you have no basis for an argument except one juror's opinion.

[Democracyinkind]

109. Bingo. nt

[AnalystInParadise]

156. Basis?

Wow.. I don't claim to be better or worse, but I am not going to denigrate an entire group of people because a court case came out differently than i wanted. See how that works? I didn't get the result I thought justice warranted. My reaction is logical, I guess three jurors saw something different. Your reaction is ZOMG!!!! TEH RACISTS...........

[WinkyDink]

108. Oh, that's right; Dunn would call WHITE boys "thugs" who played "Rap Crap." Nothing racial AT ALL.

Risible.

[WinkyDink]

107. Are YOU trying to say that Michael Dunn didn't shoot due to the RACE of the teens? REALLY?????

[AnalystInParadise]

126. Not at all

I am saying the jury not finding him guilty of First Degree Murder is not due to a racist jury, which seems to be the talking point here. I want that racist dipshit to get retried and convicted. BUT if this jury bought the self defense argument enough for a hung jury, I will not say the jury was racist. There is no proof. They saw enough to give them doubt. Now we are going to a retrial, if a second jury also finds him in his rights, I will have no choice but to change my mind. That is common sense.

[alsame]

22. +1

[Isoldeblue]

33. Absolutely true.

[uponit7771]

44. The woman isn't talking about the jurors just herself

[WinkyDink]

110. It was a generalization only.

[noiretextatique]

49. of course it was

just like zimmerman's murder of Trayvon Martin.

[pipoman]

139. Nobody is stating that either crime was not committed by a racist

Just that the jury decisions were not racist. This has nothing to do with the actual motive of the shooters.

[noiretextatique]

157. and how is the hell do YOU know that?

do you have a crystal ball? there sure as hell was a least one racist on the zimmerman jury. so far it doesn't seem to be the case with the dunn jury.

[AnalystInParadise]

158. How do you know

there was a racist on the Zimmerman jury? Zimmerman was guilty as shit, but that doesn't prove racism on the jury.

[pipoman]

161. Because I have faith that 9 jurors didn't conspire

To acquit based on racism. They acquitted based on their instructions, based on a reasonable doubt, based on the prosecution's failure to make the case. The claims of a racist jury are from those who haven't a clue how the jurys system works.

[pipoman]

140. There are many in these parts who believe that the jury

was race motivated. This has nothing to do with the actual motive of the crime.

[The Straight Story]

14. Now, dangit, it has to some sort of ISM

There is always an 'ism' involved when something does not go the way others planned, as a reason for something someone posted, etc and so on.

She must be mistaken or we just aren't looking under enough stones.

We can blame his white privilege for a start. He owned a gun, so maybe the people on the jury were all gun loving gun humpers with small weenies or something.

I know, I know, we should probably listen to those on the jury, but they probably don't even see their own hatreds and such and need some education as to why they thought different than others did.

Maybe Blue left a clue?

[Boom Sound 416]

18. Florida,er,ism

Or whatever. We'll just blame Florida.

[polichick]

114. Hey, we call it Floriduhism down here. :)

[Boom Sound 416]

115. I'm hip to that.

I love my state. Can't help it.

[polichick]

118. Me too - love Florida...

Would like to send some fellow residents packing though.

[uponit7771]

29. She is speaking for herself not the other jurors, you can act as if the basis of the

...decision had nothing to with race but the facts say different and so doe Americas history

[LanternWaste]

31. I imagine a LOT of idiots believe had Dunn asked a white teen

I imagine a LOT of racist idiots believe had Dunn asked a white teen to turn down the Abba soundtrack playing on the car stereo, the white teen would also be dead.

(Regardless of the jury's (or your) "small weenies" for all its petulant irrelevance. )

[Boom Sound 416]

170. ...

What?

[bravenak]

17. Knowledge themselves?

Sigh.
That was the case. Those are facts of the case. Black kid/white man are facts of the case.
The law SYG, is a shitty law. I knowledged myself on that very well.
I see that this black juror wanted murder 2.
I want to hear from the black juror that wanted to aquit him of all charges.

Does anybody know if any of the black jurors wanted to aquit Dunn of all charges?

[msanthrope]

25. I'm in agreeance. nt

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

20. Sorry. Anyone who says people should knowledge themselves is not someone I can take

seriously.

[Boom Sound 416]

24. ...

[alsame]

48. That says a lot

more about you than about her.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

53. Not really, but if you need to believe that, carry on. It makes you seem so knowledged!

[alsame]

55. See post 52 nt

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

67. See post @66.

[uponit7771]

26. She is talking about herself not the other jurors, nice try though mediate

[alsame]

32. And she's talking about the

verdict, not the shooting. What she's saying, IMO, is that she herself didn't decide to convict based on race, she listened to the evidence. She says she wanted justice, whether it be for Dunn or for the boys, based on the evidence rather than race.

[uponit7771]

40. Yeap got the same idea you did... She left race out of HER verdict she's not saying the

...others did the same

[gwheezie]

30. Oh dear,

There are people who think Dunn is not a racist.
If the prosecution or defense did not introduce race into the case, then the jury could not use race in deciding the verdict, at least that's how I understand how this works. That does not mean that race was not a factor in this event, it means the jury could not consider racism when deciding the case, or am I wrong in this?
I support this basic concept, that juries base decisions on what is argued in court, isn't that how it works?

[alsame]

38. That's exactly how I

understand her words too, she wanted justice based on the evidence and had an open mind going into the trial.

Doesn't help that the interview is only clips, I'd like to see the complete version.

[uponit7771]

45. That's how I read it that's not how meditate wants to present it

[Boom Sound 416]

35. No one is saying Dunn is not a racist

That's the problem with generalizations

These cases are all more complex than the little pillows of one-offs they are couched

[SoCalMusicLover]

37. Race Was Not A Factor Damnit!!

It had absolutely nothing to do with race. Michael Dunn would have reacted the same way if it had been Justin Bieber blasting rap music out of his ferrari.

This case was decided purely on the fact that Michael Dunn THOUGHT he saw a shotgun, leaving him with no other option but to open his glovebox, pull out his gun, and start shooting in an effort to save himself from almost certain death.

This juror is absolutely correct. Race was not a factor. And it certainly is not Mr. Dunn's fault for reacting the way he did, fearing for his life as he did when he saw that giant shotgun, and a scary looking teenager(race not important), coming at him.

[Gravitycollapse]

42. Poe's law. Are you being sarcastic or serious?

[SoCalMusicLover]

59. Sarcastic

Regardless of his convictions for attempted murder, this Dunn SOB got away with murder.

This case will just prove to people that sometimes you can get away with murder. Seems like there are some here who feel the jury reached the right decision.

If you can't see that this guy is a total racist bigot, I don't know what to say that could convince you otherwise.

[uponit7771]

43. Mediate is desperate, the woman isn't talking about the other jurors she talking

...about her own decision

[butterfly77]

79. Bullshit!

You said: "It had absolutely nothing to do with race. Michael Dunn would have reacted the same way if it had been Justin Bieber blasting rap music out of his ferrari"

Did you read Dunns letters:“The jail is full of blacks and they all act like thugs. This may sound a bit radical but if more people would arm themselves and kill these (expletive) idiots, when they’re threatening you, eventually they may take the hint and change their behavior.”

[Quayblue]

113. exactly

Wtf

[DonViejo]

85. This is the first time I've heard there was a shotgun...

a gun, yes, but never a shotgun. Have a link to an article saying it was a shotgun? Moreover, NO GUN WAS FOUND. Where do you suppose the non-existing gun went?

[rdharma]

46. Dunn got away with murder...... the jury was gutless! nt

[hrmjustin]

50. I hope the next jury finds him guilty.

[pintobean]

52. To all the people mocking "knowledge themselves"

Shame on you. It's a failure of our education system. It says nothing of her honesty or intelligence.


Rachel Jeantel

[alsame]

54. +1

[Boom Sound 416]

61. +1 more

[bravenak]

62. Sorry.

Nt.

[Enrique]

64. it pisses me off mightily

she was actually making a good point, and people are taking these cheap shots. Nothing pisses me off more than foolish people making fun of people that are right.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

66. It says something about her lack of education, which is pretty ironic since she's

using the phrase "knowledge themselves" to say other people are uneducated. And you don't know it's a "failure of our education system. Maybe she had good teachers but she was a lousy student.

[alsame]

122. And if you think that has

anything to do with a person's character or integrity, then you're not nearly as smart as you think you are.

[PumpkinAle]

58. And I have a bridge to sell this guy

of course, it was about race and hate - why else would Dunn have said this:

"When the police said that these guys didn't have a record, I was like, you know, I wonder if they're just flying under the radar," he told his fiancee by telephone. "Because they were bad."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-juror-michael-dunn-loud-music-verdict-20140219,0,4180192.story?page=2&track=rss#ixzz2tuVsacY6

[Boom Sound 416]

75. She's a woman

[TBF]

63. My argument with this case

is very similar to Zimmerman's. They both had a solid chance to make a better choice: (1) Zimmerman should have stayed in his car as instructed by the police, and (2) If Dunn had time to go to his car and retrieve his weapon - he had time to get in the car and drive away.

Why do they get out of the car? Why not just drive away? Why get out a gun and start shooting?

I'll tell you why - because they want to shoot. It really isn't very difficult.

[Boom Sound 416]

73. Your sentiment is correct

But I don't think dunn ever got out of his car until after the first shot was fired and the SUV was speeding away

[TBF]

102. That could be -

I'm not as familiar with the details of the Dunn case (too disgusted after watching Zimmerman get off). Why not drive away? The mindset just baffles me.

[Boom Sound 416]

106. The nail in this case (for me)

Was he didn't call the cops.

That said he was A) drunk and B) already lying from the get go.

It's 2014. You're in a justified shooting. You're calling the cops if you have nothing to hide.

[bravenak]

154. That how I feel.

Even zimmerman waited for the cops and had actually been involved in a fight that he was losing.

Not that I ever want to discuss that case ever again, it's just that this man makes the the other guy look rational.

I could never shoot somebody and run away, I'd be calling the ambulance. And the po po's.

[The Second Stone]

74. Prosecutorial incompetence to seek first degree

when it is obvious that he didn't premeditate the incident. He should have been charged with 2nd degree. Felony murder would be a dog fall.

[woolldog]

124. Wrong.

This is clearly a case of first degree murder. You need to "knowledge yourself" on what premeditation means in the context of murder one, especially before you accuse the SAs of being incompetent.

He reached over into the glove compartment, got his gun, got out of the car and shot into the other car. That's premeditation.

[Diamonique]

160. No incompetence here

It *is* a 1st degree murder case, according to the law. The time it took him to reach into the glove compartment, get the gun, cock it, and aim it, was all the time that is needed for premeditation.

Plus, 2nd degree and manslaughter were the lesser included charges. So if the juror wanted to convict him on either of those, they could have. Unfortunately there were 2 -- and then 3 idiots on that jury who felt that Dunn "acted in self defense because he was in fear for his life" when he killed Jordan Davis. They believe his lies.

[The Second Stone]

167. Must have failed criminal law in law school

Oh, wait, I didn't. Prosecutor overreached and confused the jury, who, admittedly, were shitheads. Premeditation is about planning. Getting mad and reaching for a gun isn't planning.

[uponit7771]

77. *****BULLSHIT ASS'D MISLEADING ARTICLE***** Woman NOT speaking for jury decision just

... her own.

She's not saying OTHERS left out race (pro or con) just that SHE did...

Bullshit ass'd article begging to excuse racist attitudes in America

[Boom Sound 416]

87. Sssswwwwiiiinnnngg

And a miss

She didn't want murder 1 either

[uponit7771]

90. BULLLLLLLLL FUCKIN SHIT!!! Please quote her saying she didn't want to convict on murder 1 or 2

r

[Boom Sound 416]

92. Deduction

Think about it

[uponit7771]

95. No deduction needed, they reported she wanted to convict on murder 2. She wanted a murder

...conviction and Juror 4 said there were a couple who thought it was self defense.

[liberalmuse]

82. The jury may not have been racist...

but Michael Dunn most certainly is. I would lay bets in Vegas that if this had been a car full of white teenagers, there wouldn't have been a shooting.

[AnalystInParadise]

100. Agreed

[Fumesucker]

94. I suppose this will learn us to not jump to conclusions about people based on external appearance

Satan will be ordering the snowplows out in Hell before that happens.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

112. Some years back I served on a jury...

It was a murder case, and the defendant was a man who had allegedly shot to death a former friend, a man who had cheated with the defendant's girlfriend, who had gone around town convincing mutual friends that the defendant was gay, and who was now living in the defendant's girlfriend's house.

After the closing arguments, we, the jurors, were led to the jury room to deliberate the facts. The moment the door was shut, one white guy yelled, "I'm ready to fry the m@#$##@," whereupon he set about becoming the foreperson. He began to rush through the evidence, because, as he said, he had "better things to do" and wanted "to get the hell outta" there. He was one of those people that simply has to be the center of attention, and keep the attention of his audience, and a couple of other guys found him funny and laughed at his jokes and his abrasiveness. Then these two began to agree with his every word, and they became a team.

Up to that point, I'd imagined juries to be different, to be serious, responsible. I couldn't believe it. I'd never been a juror before, thought juries were those things on TV police and attorney shows, and I was soo disappointed that jurors I was serving with were behaving like complete a-hs!

I'd had just about all I could take, so I began to do the only thing I could do - disagree with him on everything (on purpose), debate every point he made, and hold up the process to force him (and the others) to consider and weigh everything carefully. Needless to say, I held up the jury by posing questions they were forced to discuss, and the foreperson became very frustrated, which made him look like an ass. Soon, one older man got exasperated with him and said, "Look, if you're not happy, let's call the bailiff and get the judge to excuse you." From that moment on he was pretty quiet and reasonable, we went through the evidence, discussed all points, and made a very measured, very cautious decision.

I SHUDDER thinking what goes on in jury rooms all over this country. People are people even in juries. People don't change simply because they're selected to serve on a jury. Republicans are STILL Republicans on a jury. Jury duty does not bestow on people a higher intelligence, more objectivity, or a stronger moral compass. Asses will still be asses, even when picked to serve on a jury.

[Fumesucker]

168. Thanks for sharing that, I think we needed to hear it n/t

[Hoyt]

125. This guy used to run for office -- even governor -- when I was young. Said he was not a racist.

\

Kept saying it even as he was led to prison for bombing a church in Birmingham.

Clearly Dunn is a racist. I also think the jurors who voted to let him walk, at least empathized with Dunn's "fear" of the black teen. I'm sorry, I think that is racist too.

[Aerows]

128. I wasn't on the jury

and it isn't my conscience that will have to decide for the 12 that were how they feel about the verdict. Michael Dunn is going away for a very long time. When, and if, he ever gets out, he will be a very old man. Is that justice? The jury seemed to think it was. I didn't take part in it, so I'm not going to second-guess a group of citizens that agonized over a decision for days.

[NCTraveler]

145. +1 nt

[valerief]

151. 21? She's a baby. This case was sooooooo racially motivated. nt

[nomorenomore08]

164. So he would've still opened fire if it had been white kids playing Zeppelin?

Suuure I believe that...

I don't want to condemn this young woman for her youth and naivete, but Jesus Christ this is all so disingenuous...