Fox Studios announces cast for new Fantastic Four movie. The internets loses its frikken mind.

[Garion_55]

https://movies.yahoo.com/news/jamie-bell-poised-play-thing-fox-finally-found-043257582.html

so basically Fox has to put out comic book movies every few years or they lose the rights of the films back to Marvel Comics.

The fantastic four franchise was next to expire if fox didnt make another film soon. So they decided to fire the half decent cast they had the last two horrible films and do a 'reboot' with a new cast.

They just put out the cast and FF fans everywhere were outraged.

Some of the major problems the fan base has with the new cast.

1) Reed richards, the most brilliant man on the planet, changes from a late 30's early 40's male with grey hair on the sides of his head to a 27 year old kid that looks like he was on the Wonder Years.

2) Ben Grim, the Thing, a 6' 500 pound rock monster is being played by a 5'7" 130 pound actor. he is about 100 pounds shy of being credible.

and the biggest thing that is upsetting the base is

3) Johnny Storm, the Human torch is now an african american after being white for 50 years. Which on the face might not be so bad except the fact that his biological sister, Susan Storm the Invisible Woman is still white. If you are going to change the race of the brother why wouldnt you change the race of the sister? Thats the biggest thing people are having a hard time accepting. Switching from white to black is one thing but to keep his sister white makes absolutely no sense at all.


right now after reading the blogs most of the day ive noticed that the fans reaction is about 85% WTF???!?!? 10% 'eh ill give a black torch a chance' and 5% 'i dont care either way'. Most fans say they will not go see this film just because of the overall bad casting choices. IF that holds up look for the next FF film to be one of the biggest flop movies ever.

[temporary311]

1. I dont mind the casting choices.

Actually, Michael B. Jordan is the only casting move that I actually like. The rest I'm more or less neutral on.

That said, I'm leaning toward giving this movie a pass because Fox is kinda clueless about what to do with its comic properties, especially the First Family. The previous two FF movies range from mediocre to bad.

But the main reason they're even making this movie now is because if they don't start shooting soon, the film rights revert back to Marvel, which I would prefer. They already lost the Daredevil rights for nothing because they couldn't rush out a film at the last minute. I doubt they want that to happen again.

[Marr]

3. Just like Spider-Man.

They churn these things out whether anyone wants them or not. I would've preferred to see the movie rights for Spider-Man go back to Marvel as well as FF, personally.

[hedgehog]

4. I would have liked seeing him as Reed Richard -

that would have been a great casting move!

I'm not upset that Ben Grimm is a small guy - it makes the shift to the Thing that more poignant.

[Garion_55]

8. but ben grimm was a big guy before the change.

In college he was a quarterback and after leaving college joined the military and became a test pilot.


this actor just aint cutting it imo.

[yeoman6987]

46. Miles teller

He is great along with. Michael.

[Marr]

2. Well, I assume the Thing will be CGI.

That's how they should've done him for the first movies, really.

The other choices seem odd, but... meh. It all pales beside the crap casting for Wonder Woman, imho.

[temporary311]

5. Don't even get me started on Wonder Woman

I'm willing to give Gal Gadot a chance, but it's just not looking good. The fact that she's being shoehorned into the Man of Steel sequel, which morphed into Batman vs Superman, which seems to be morphing into Justice League v0.5 already bodes ill.

[Xyzse]

69. Jesse Eisenberg as Lex is what I am very much against.

Lex is supposed to have confidence and charisma.

Eisenberg tends to play a whiny, motor-mouth, who acts like a jerk out of insecurity.

FF Casting choices, I don't mind so much, except for Teller, he just doesn't seem like a Reed Richards type.

[Agnosticsherbet]

6. I think of it as a movie based on the Fantastic Four, rather than a Fantastic Four movie.

I mean, the Torch or Sue could be adopted, or the Father/mother remarried, or they could say, "Look at those special effects."

Ben Grimm was clearly not a WWII fighter pilot and test pilot. At 27 years old he could still be a pilot. Reed Richards did not fight with the French Resistance. He is apparently a Dougie Houser type child prodigy.

The names stayed the same, but the chucked the personalities.

I don't think I'll see it.

[temporary311]

7. Well, obviously the characters cant remain true to the 1960s origins

unless they make a period piece. For example, I thought Iron Man did a really nice update for his origins that remained true to the character.

As for personalities, that remains to be seen. Though, I don't know if you saw Chronicle or not, but the character Jordan played in that was actually kinda similar to Johnny Storm, just tuned down a notch or two.

[Agnosticsherbet]

15. I suspect my children will want me to take them to see it.

But I am purist and damn tired of reboots every couple of years. Willing suspension of disbelief gives me the power to accept changes in casting. Fundamental changes in the stories and the characters are more difficult.

I still have not seen the reboot of Spiderman.

[reddread]

33. a period piece would be the only right way to do it

they will keep making bigger and bigger piles of garbage out of the premier Marvel mythos.
Good thing Roger Corman got his version finished, it beats the others.
Too bad the rights dont belong to the Kirby Family Estate.
In a decent country, they would be rewarded for his work, not ripped off.
Good God that last Spider-Man movie was horrible, but anything looks great next
to Iron Man 3.
Now there is an argument for capital punishment I might go along with.

[geomon666]

9. Don't be stupid, of course Susan Storm wasn't going to be black.

She's going to get married to Reed Richards, a white man. See how that works?

[Garion_55]

10. reed looks like her younger brother 8-(

[exboyfil]

11. They already had a Latina Sue Storm (Jessica Alba)

with Johnny Storm (Chris Evans) who descended from a northern European heritage. The actor who played Reed Richards (Ioan Gruffudd) in the original could have been saved at least - he is about the right age now. Ben Grim should be CGI this time (it has gotten really good so that actor really doesn't matter as much). Rewrite the Storms as adopted or part of a blended family. The big thing is that they should have chemistry between Reed and Sue - without it the movie will fail. Also the relationship between Ben Grim and Johnny Storm is critical.

Most importantly do the Submariner love triangle and put Dr. Doom on the bench for this movie. When Doom is introduced do not screw with his origin -it was almost as bad as burning the Mandarin down in that God awful Iron Man 3.

This pup as Reed Richards spells disaster for this movie. I don't think anything can save that casting choice.

[The Straight Story]

12. The pic of them has it all

Sexism (she is showing too much in the wrong place. Quit looking you sickos), white privilege (3 white people), racism (notice who is last in the photo and not wearing a nice tie).

That poor woman had to wear a dress, notice the men aren't all dressed up as objects to be used - they are all business like. They are looking at the camera, she is not - what does it mean?

What are they planning on doing with the human torch, saying he was white until he flamed on? We are talking Fox here ya know so don't discount it. Hannity will probably blame Obama and Beck will just wave his arms around yelling crazy things then draw on chalk boards.

Notice they are all posed, wearing make up, and dressed up - none of them look like real people who just woke up in wrinkled pajamas and messy hair? Why - because they are just something to be consumed, we can't possibly care about them as humans now. Just playthings for our eyes on the screen.

And for god's sake, someone cover that woman up please.

[Agnosticsherbet]

16. You are complaining about Sexism whe it involves "The Invisible Girl?"

Now that is funny.

[Fumesucker]

38. Invisible people are the ultimate objectification, seeing them is all in your own mind

[Agnosticsherbet]

72. Actually, I was refering to "The Invisible Girl" being her super hero name.

which was the ultimate objectification.

[PassingFair]

59. He's trolling.

It's what he does.

[Agnosticsherbet]

73. Actually, you should check your mirror for Trolls.

I was commenting on what Sue Storm was called in the original Fantastic Four, the Invisible Girl, which made here the poster child for objectification. Assuming someone is a troll is an ad homonym attack. Might try discussing things with a bit more of an open mind.

[Katashi_itto]

42. Lol!

[Recursion]

13. Remember when Kenneth Branagh cast Denzel and Keanu as brothers?

[Aristus]

64. They were only half-brothers, anyway.

Branagh's casting choices were a reflection of the race-blind casting of Shakespeare's plays that was just getting started in the late 80's-early 90's, and which now many people take for granted.

The seminal effort along these lines was a production of 'Richard III' in New York, starring Cleavon Little as Richard, with a multi-racial cast, Caucasian, African-American, Asian, Latino, etc, making up the rest of the characters, including and especially the members of Richard's own family.

Still, Keanu Reeves' performance was a travesty. I played Don John in a local theater production of 'MAAN' which blew the doors off the place; but then, I don't look like Keanu Reeves.

[exboyfil]

14. With Kate Mara as Sue Storm

They really should have cast Kevin Spacey as Reed Richards. Can you imagine it (the satirists are already gearing up).

[Control-Z]

17. Thanks, Obama. (nt)

[X_Digger]

18. Meh. Screw reboots.

I haven't seen one done right since umm.. thinking.. shit.. not Total Recall, not that hot mess Star Trek, umm..

Gimme a minute here.. not The Thing.. nor Assault on Precinct 13.. certainly not Carrie nor Halloween..

Umm.. The Day the Earth Stood Still? Wait, no. The Italian Job? Ehn, not really. Not Fame. The new Omen sucked. Superman was a drip.

Shit, not a single one.

[exboyfil]

19. Batman Begins

The Dark Knight and to a lesser extent The Dark Knight Rises (which was inferior to the two Keaton films). As pure reboots go it has the most staying power.

Other one off remakes

True Grit
The Thing (the 1980s remake of the 1950s not the awful recent movie)
The Fly


After that the cupboard is pretty bare.

[X_Digger]

23. Nah, I couldn't stand any of the recent batman reboots.

I know, that's heresy to some, but.. inconsistent pacing, bad dialog, too long, plot holes you could throw a bat-a-rang through.

Agreed the 80's The Thing.

[randome]

24. King Kong.

But you're right, they are few and far between.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[Vashta Nerada]

47. I'm going to have to disagree with you about Batman Begins, TDK, and TDKR.

Christian Bale made an excellent Batman, better than Keaton's. However, Keaton made a better Bruce Wayne than Christian Bale.

Overall, the latest Batman trilogy is so much better than Keaton's Batman movies.

[exboyfil]

53. The first two Bale movies are two of the best comic book movies ever made

The third was weak - Return of the Jedi weak so not a complete disaster. The first two Keaton movies, in my opinion, are better than the third Bale movie. Besides that we are in agreement. Obviously the tone is different in the two resets (which is good). I hope they go for a third tone with the Affleck (that of the strategic thinking Batman immersed in technology - the JLA Batman so to speak). It would be best for people to forget Bale as we go forward. More time should pass between these reboots (just like Spiderman could never recover from a reboot a few short years after the original movie).

DC has their problems. Since Christopher Reeves Superman II they can't make a decent live action movie without Batman (five good or great Batman movies, two weak Superman movies, one weak Batman movies, two dreadful Superman movies, and two dreadful Batman movies).

[Garion_55]

20. hmmmmm maybe....

uhhhh.............shit. there must be one good reboot? anyone seen robocop? lol. not a fan of the new star trek. batman maybe? but i dont like Christian Bale he is a prick so i wasnt a fan of the latest movies.

true grit? lol

[Katashi_itto]

34. James Bond has been the best Reboot. Robocop goes from Evil Corporation to

embracing the Corporation. Like the Koch Brothers financed it.

[LittleBlue]

21. Comic book movies are so bad

Nowadays they just pump them out like an assembly line. Churn, churn, churn, reboot. Repeat until the money stops rolling in. Sometimes a watchable one comes out, but that's happening less and less these days.

[Steerpike]

22. Some may agree or disagree

Last edited Fri Feb 21, 2014, 02:18 PM - Edit history (1)

But I loved (or just really really liked)

1. All the hellboy movies
2. Most of the Blade movies
3. 300
4. Watchman (Flawed...but as good as it could be considering the depth of the source material)
5. The first two X-men Movies
6. Darkman
7. The Rocketeer
8. The Crow
9. The Tick (TV)
10. The Mask
11. Mystery Men
12. Constantine (Only becouse of Tilda Swinton...who is a goddess)
13. V is for Vendetta
14. Iron Man 1
15. Kick Ass
16. Captain America 1
17. Avengers 1

[DetlefK]

29. That was Tilda Swinton in "Constantine".

Cate Blanchett could never pull off such fanatic crazy-eyes.

[Myrina]

37. Tilda was BADASS in Constantine.

I hadn't seen her before that and was like WHO IS THAT??

[Steerpike]

67. my goodness

You are right! separated at birth!

[Vashta Nerada]

48. It's more like "churn, reboot, origin story, churn churn reboot origin story..."

ad nauseum.

[Lost_Count]

25. Dud...

[Blue_Adept]

26. Of course fans are unhappy

For one, it's a reboot. Enough with the reboots already.

Secondly, they're rebooting by using the 2000 alternate world timeline of the Marvel Ultimates line, which has a completely different origin story.

And third, yes, they changed the race of one of the characters. A character that has been in existence for 50 years. I grew up reading and loving stories about Johnny Storm, the FF and the whole family of them in the Baxter Building - especially when She Hulk joined the team after Ben left for awhile. Ah, the Byrne run of books were amongst my favorites.

So now that there's a chance - a chance - that Fox may actually make a good FF movie after seeing what Marvel has done in being respectful of the source material and adapting it properly - they change the race of one of the characters, which messes with some of the interaction aspects of the brother/sister pairing that has been a huge part of the overall bond for all these years.

Yes, Jordan is right. Most of these books started in the 60's when race wasn't translated to comics well. That improved significantly in the 70's and going forward, particularly with X-Men and numerous other titles.

There'll be plenty of people calling comic book fans racists for being unhappy about this. Which is unfortunate because all they really want is to see the character they grew up with. And apparently that's wrong.

[FSogol]

27. That's not the Fantastic Four, that's the sequel to "That Awkward Moment."

[gollygee]

28. I always have to laugh a little

at people watching a movie about ridiculously unrealistic things, like superheroes, who can apparently suspend belief enough to get into a story that is so implausible, but who suddenly need reality when it comes to the race of the actors. That is the one case where they can't handle something unrealistic.

[randome]

30. Interesting observation.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[mathematic]

49. Superpowers are fantasy, human interaction is real

Characters that are human need to act in identifiably human ways. When you race lift one sibling but not the other then either one or both were adopted or they only share one parent. Any of these scenarios impacts the personalities or interactions of these characters so this casting choice creates a conundrum. If you acknowledge that being from a multiracial family involving either adoption, divorce, or parental death impacts a character then you have to fundamentally change decades old characters and if you don't acknowledge that then you are asking for an unreasonable suspension of disbelief from the audience.

On the other hand, if you are not changing the race of the character to match the race of the actor (which you seemed to have assumed), you run into a host of problems trying to explain this to a mass market low/medium-brow comic book movie audience without confusing them.

Look at The Jerk. Some of the comedy comes from the fact that the character doesn't quite get that he's white, not black. The audience knows that there's a difference between a black man and a white man in society, even if the character doesn't.

[gollygee]

62. Race is a story element in The Jerk

You can suspend belief about people having superpowers, but you can't suspend belief about siblings not looking like each other? Is race a story element in this superhero movie? Do they talk about the character's background enough to make adoption, divorce, etc. an issue. That can be an issue for siblings who are the same color as well.

The audience knows there's a difference between a black man and a white man, and also knows that superpowers don't exist. The audience is able to ignore one and not the other.

[demwing]

76. +100% /nt

[DetlefK]

31. Agreed. Why didn't they switch both siblings??? Afraid of too much black?

Then the team would be half-black. And as the Thing doesn't have a skin-color, it would be two thirds black. Maybe that was too much for the producers.

And a white man romancing a black woman? When was the last time you saw THAT in a movie?

[demwing]

77. The original Fantastic Four, for one

Grimm's wife was black.

Then there was Monster's Ball, and scores more:

http://www.jeffandcorey.com/ELIG.html

[Blue_Tires]

32. Like the innernettes were going to pay for a ticket anyway...

Many of the friends I used to go to the movies with have long since gone the route of home theaters/downloads/pirated copies and never looked back....

[Tommy_Carcetti]

35. Suck it, Ukraine.

Here in America, we've got real things to protest.

[snooper2]

36. I see 22.45% of breasts in GD!

FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Javaman]

39. I love witnessing a good nerd rage. :)

that said, my two cents is: if they are going to rush it out so they don't lose the license, then they should just lose the license.

this will the 3rd incarnation of the FF that has come along.

the Roger Corman version was awful.

the last one that came along was marginally awful.

this one, given the licensing circumstances will be...aweful.

It's a classic comic series that has been completely dealt with in a ham-handed fashion.

give the license to someone who will take the time to make a fun exciting movie, and don't just make a place holder.

[sufrommich]

40. So let me get this straight,fans of a guy who can stretch

his body like silly putty,a woman who can make herself invisible, a guy that turns into a rock and a guy who is a human torch are upset because a black brother having a white sister is unrealistic?

[Blue_Adept]

41. No

They're not upset about that. The majority easily segue into the fact that they're not biologically related and work with it.

What they're upset about is that there's absolutely no reason to do that. The successful comic book movies adaptations out there all treat the source material properly. They adapt where needed from one medium to the other and tweak things as you'd expect to update it reflecting science and so forth - which the comics have done as well.

This change does not respect the source material and that's why they're upset. There's absolutely no reason to do it. It's not going to bring in a whole lot of people because "hey! diversity!". It's just going to set people against it more - which was already happening within the fan circles after Fox started threatening to sue news sites that were posting about the plot synopsis that got leaked which the director denied was accurate in the slightest. With it being a rush job on top of it, there's lots of reasons to be unhappy with it.

But please, proceed in just calling out nerds and geeks in your superior way.

[sufrommich]

43. Sure,hiring a minority actor to play a

role that has nothing to do with his race will only make things worse for minority actors.As far as suggesting that changing the race of the character "because diversity",most movies don't treat the source material as gospel,It's very likely that none of the men portrayed in Monuments Men really looked like George Clooney or Matt Damon either.

[exboyfil]

44. Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury

and Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin were both good changes. Duncan left us far too soon. Unfortunately after you get past Storm and Panther the cupboard is pretty bare for key African American heroes in the Marvel universe (it is even worse over at DC). I think the biggest problem with casting is the actor playing Reed Richards. He looks younger than the actress playing Sue Storm - that makes absolutely no sense. Part of the dynamics driving the early team was that age spread between the two. That is why having Sue Storm taking up (or sorta taking up) with Sub Mariner works as a plot device. It is a powerful story just waiting to be mined, but it won't be with these actors. Obviously Evans has a better gig, and I was never sold on Alba but why not keep Ioan Gruffudd and Michael Chiklis?

This movie will be a disaster, but it will not be because an African American was cast as Johnny Storm

[Blue_Adept]

45. Oh, I agree

Both those changes were good. The Fury one has something rooted in the comics though as the character was again part of the Ultimates universe and was designed based on Jackson with his consent back in 2000.

There's obviously a lack because of the origins of so many comics coming in either the 40's or 60's, but it did change as it progressed. We saw more in the 70's with Deathlok (who is getting a TV role), Luke Cage, Black Panther, Storm and a whole host of X-Men. The bulk of New Mutants had characters from all sorts of countries and ethnicity. DC Comics has its own issues to be sure, but part of that stems from that their characters are largely much older but have been through multiple revisions and changes. The real diversity in comics is coming from the other publishers and more original non-superhero works.

Casting Jordan as Johnny Storm will not be the reason the movie is a disaster, but it will be a reason that it will get a lot of negative fan reaction up through and past its release. And what helps build a groundswell of positive vibes for movies like these, or books or other adapted properties? The longtime fans. Look at the positive stuff coming out from Guardians of the Galaxy, a flick nobody has heard of from a rebooted comic from just a few years ago. It's such a spot-on adaptation that respects the source and runs with it that it gets the community behind it and that in turn draws in the curiosity seekers. When people go and look at reactions for FF, all they'll see is largely negativity.

[LanternWaste]

52. Much like placing Shakespeare's Hamlet in Napoleonic Europe...?

Much like placing Shakespeare's Hamlet in Napoleonic Europe as Kenneth Branagh did in his critically acclaimed 1996 production?

(insert distinction without a difference here...l)

[gollygee]

65. I assume you were a strong voice in the white privilege threads

stating your agreement with the prevalence of white privilege in our society, right? Because you have to recognize that if all or almost all the source material everyone grew up with has all or almost all white characters, and especially major characters, then people of color have no chance at getting any good parts in the vast majority of movies. And you must recognize that having all major characters be white and therefore all parts only available to white actors is a white privilege. And that seeing all or almost major characters looking roughly like you in movies is a privilege not shared by people of color.

They didn't necessarily choose this actor because "hey! diversity!" There are more things that make someone fit or not fit a character than skin color. Maybe he was simply the best choice available because of his acting abilities and the way he played the part in an audition.

[Rex]

50. I don't care, The two FF movies are horrible to watch.

They were terrible. If another group can come in and do better, than MORE POWER TO THEM! UM...maybe the Storm kids are from different marriges...story lines can be tweaked to reflect modern day situations. Maybe they were adopted!

The outrage over this and Ben being the next Batman have me rolling my eyes. Who gives two shits! They already ruined Star Trek, reboots SUCK...oh hey...how about being original and creating something NEW!?

[itsrobert]

51. it worked on the Jeffersons

Lionel had a white sister.

[DJ13]

54. "Fantastic Four: The Blunder Years"

[Mike Nelson]

55. Yikes!

Casting folks don't know comics, obviously.

[Lancero]

56. The most upsetting thing about it is...

That one of the characters is black?

Racist much?

[Blue_Adept]

57. Missing the point?

If he was always black, it wouldn't raise an eyebrow. But changing a known character with an established 50 years history from white to black will upset people that have invested in said character, stories, etc.

[Lancero]

60. I'll say again...

If the only reason to hate, or dislike, something is race, then that is blatant racism.

Defend it if you want.

[Blue_Adept]

61. So I'm racist if I want to see the character I grew up reading portrayed the way he has been?

Thanks. Got it.

[Garion_55]

63. nothing to do with race.

this here would outrage me even more.

[Xyzse]

71. I am sorry but...

[Garion_55]

58. Fox Studios Presents....

[JHB]

66. It's not as if the previous ones were classics...

...and "Johnnie" is busy these days being Captain America.


Speaking as a former comic geek who is overly-indulgent of these sorts of movies, It all depends on how the chemistry plays out. Lots of things sound good (or bad) until you see what actually gets done with it.

[ecstatic]

68. The new 90210 pulled it off well. Not sure what the big deal is

Then again, I don't follow Marvel comics/shows.

[Xyzse]

70. When I first heard of Michael B. Jordan being the Human Torch, I thought the idea had merit.

I just didn't think he was going to be the "Johnny Storm" version of the Torch.

I thought he was going to be:

Thomas Raymond.

I thought that would have been great!

[randome]

74. Kudos for bringing in unexpected trivia!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[Xyzse]

75. My pleasure.

I like squirrels, I may have to protect them from you...