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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMy Daughter lives in Kiev....her latest message
Last edited Fri Feb 21, 2014, 03:37 PM - Edit history (1)
Copied from her latest posting...
This morning I am sad and proud.
At least three of my friends here in Kyiv have been affected within one degree of separation by the death of a protester. Some of these men leave behind young families, new families, or even entire communities they had a hand in shaping.
I'm sad that those dearest to my friends are suffering these losses. I am also proud that I count such brave and noble people among my acquaintances.
I am inspired and in awe of the will of the Ukrainian people. I feel at home here now more than ever when I see so many people standing up for their human rights and freedoms. Surely every person who values human dignity and freedom feels fraternity and solidarity with the Ukrainians at this time.
The struggle is not over. Please keep Ukraine and all others around the world who are fighting for a better, freer future in your thoughts.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)I hope you are not worried for your daughter's safety. On second thought, I'm sure you are.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)Yes of course... yet as I have posted in previous threads regarding her, she is an intelligent and competent adult. She is on her own journey of experiencing this world and all it offers. I am very proud that she has always endeavored to make the world a better place and at this time it is with the people of Ukraine.
littlewolf
(3,813 posts)info other then what the press decides it will give us.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)It is a complex situation.... yet I know from her communications that the majority of those participating in the protests are good and decent people. It is also known some not so good elements of society are using this as an opportunity to show themselves. But I know they do not speak for the majority who only want a free and democratic country.
The good news this morning was parlament voted to release Yulia Tymoshenko 310 to 54. She was imprisoned in 2011 and sentenced to 7 years.
She had lost a run off election in 2010 and then imprisoned by the President Viktor Yanukovych.
Hopefully this will stand and she will again be able to lead the opposition.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)Your daughter has a wonderful heart. And I appreciate hearing from some one 'in' the situation.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)She does have a wonderful heart and only wishes to see our world become a more loving and caring place.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)marble falls
(57,067 posts)US and EU Are Paying Ukrainian Rioters and Protesters Paul Craig Roberts
MysticHuman
(219 posts)Anyone that has really kept a close eye on events there can see there are small factions of not os good people involved. It doesn't take from the fact that the majority are good and decent people only wanting what is right for the citizens of Ukraine.
Response to MysticHuman (Reply #9)
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The Magistrate
(95,244 posts)Response to The Magistrate (Reply #35)
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greatauntoftriplets
(175,731 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)The best hope for Ukraine, and our whole World, are the non-violent, courageous young people like your daughter. You must be very proud of her.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)joshcryer
(62,269 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)But thanks anyway.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)I couldn't help but say something.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)I've found I do need to be careful.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)Let's hope the separatists don't have their way. Though I suspect in the coming days we'll see people cheering for Ukrainian separatist movements.
Response to joshcryer (Reply #58)
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rollin74
(1,973 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)can get DU on the internet over there? Maybe she would join us? Than again, I hope they have the internet.
MattSh
(3,714 posts)I can assure you that you can get the internet over here.
If you have access to a telephone line, you can get access to the internet.
GRACIEBIRD
(94 posts)and some of this may be familiar to you.
Amongst a number of former Soviet nations (FSU) there is a rabid right-wing movement.
In the Baltic, Latvia and Estonia and Lithuania the governments either support or allow Noe-Naziism. In Estonia there is an SS parade annually where WW2 SS members have a parade through town.
Why, you ask?
Well during WW2 Estonia was brutally oppressed by both the Germans and the Russians. However the Estonians knew the Russians well and many Estonians volunteered for German military duty including SS Estonian Division. These Estonian soldiers are now seen as heroes fighting the Red Scourge.
After the fall of the Soviet Union, Baltic nations passed laws making life more difficult for Russians living in FSU nations especially Estonia. There was and is a degree of anti-Bolshevik passion here today. Ethnic tensions in Estonia between Nationalistic Estonians and Russians are always inflamed.
The same thing exists in Ukraine. There are nationalist Ukrainians who are strongly anti-Russian and the extreme right wing is part of it. So when you see the hooligans with bombs and guns killing Ukrainian security, it is NOT the average Ukraine resident who is protesting for peace and change.
There are multiple anti-Russia groups today in the world including the progressive West encouraging change and tolerance, the Muslims fighting against a heavy hand in the Caucasus and a right wing Nationalistic/Fascist element.
reACTIONary
(5,770 posts)...welcome to DU!
MysticHuman
(219 posts)From what my Daughter has told me there are factions that are extreme right wing. Although they are a small minority they have given the government and excuse (if the needed one) to say the protests are violent. Yet the majority by far restrained from violence.
Thanks for sharing your understanding...it is a complex issue and one must try to understand all points of view.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)a social media manager for an international company. I had asked her recently if she had thought about blogging her experiences and her response was... after working all day on the internet she really doesn't feel inspired to continue it at home. She does know of this site from me, however hasn't decided to join atm.
Maybe in the future... but presently I don't think she it's on her agenda.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)We used to be like that, really putting our lives on the line in a fight for our personal freedoms.
But that was before cable.
Wish her well.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)They live mostly in west Ukraine and I don't think any have been directly involved in the Kiev protests. A neighbor of one cousin has been shot and killed in Kiev however. He leaves behind a wife and ten year old daughter.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)She has expressed to me how kindhearted the people were. Although they didn't appreciate that she spoke Russian instead of Ukrainian. Her friend who was a native to the small town explained that she was trying to learn Ukrainian now and they shouldn't be "offended" to use Russian when trying to converse with her. Once they understood the reasons and that she is now learning Ukrainian they accepted her with open arms.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)have witheir government is that the corruption and courts are oppressive in much the same way as it was under the Soviets. It is true that the people of west Ukraine are much less tolerant of Russians than the people in the east. Most of my fanily is in the Lviv and small villages northwest of Lviv.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)I will have to check what village she visited last summer. I believe it was in the North...but I am not exactly sure.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)50 miles north of Lviv and maybe 12 miles from Poland. They left ten years apart in 1912 and 1922. They did not know each other until they met up in Minneapolis in 1923. My grandmother went back to the village in 1970. (She ditched her Intourist chaperone in Kiev and illegally went home.) she was the first person who emigrated from that village to return to visit.
When my grandmother returned home (with 10 quarts of homemade vodka in her luggage) the Ukrainian ladies asker what it was like. My grandmother said "the cows all travel the same paths". Nothing had changed in nearly 50 years except that her family's house had wooden floors instead of dirt and there was one lightbulb hanging from the ceiling.
My grandmother left all of her clothing with her sisters and bought each of them a refrigerator and washing machine. They did not have running water, so I think they were of the old Maytag variety.
In 1993 my father went to see his family in that village. Nothing much had changed since 1970 except they had wired the house with electricity and had television. They still did not have running water.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)she said it was like going back in a time capsule. Her friend was the first and only person to leave the village that he knew of and my Daughter believes she was the first American many of these people have ever met. She loved the gardens in every front yard and the very humble and down to earth people.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)It was Kosiv near Kolimiya. Kosiv is the hometown of one of her very close friends.
A town of about 9,000 and looking at the maps of their respect locations ..they are not that far apart. Kosiv is a little south of Lviv.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)Most of my grandmother's family work in the coal mines. They were needed by the Soviets so they are the first cousins and their children that my father found. My grandfather's family were kuloks, meaning they were farmers who had a cow or two. They were seen as affluent. They also resisted Stalin's demands they hand over their grain to the Soviets during Stalin's artificial famine. All of my grandfather's family were starved to death. My dad may have found a fifth cousin when he was there. All that Ukrainian really knew is that an American showed up at his door saying he might be a relative. He was bewildered but pleased with the $50 my dad gave him. At the time it was about two months wages for him.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)Most of my ancestry is from Finland. We are descendants of the Saami people of Northern Finland. They also were brutally treated as different factions tried to decimate their culture.
We are also a descendant of Yaakko Illka who raised a rebellion against the brutal king of the time. He is my a grandfather back 15 generations from me. He was found guilty of treason and killed.
The struggles for the common man hasn't changed much over the centuries has it?
Yet we don't stop trying to make the world a better place.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)I had heard of the Saami people (reindeer and all that) but not about your revolutionary ancestor.
The thing about Ukraine that possibly many Americans don't understand is their hatred for and economic dependence on Russia.
Here is another family story about why my Ukrainian family do not like the Russians. During WWII my grqndmotber's youngest sister's husband fought against the Germans as a partisan. In June of 1945, after the war ended, local Russian Soviet soldiers came to his house and demanded that he join the Soviet Army. My great uncle knew the soldiers and they knew him because the army and partisans often fought together. Anyway, he told them that he had been fighting a long time and now he needed to stay home and be with his wife and six children. The Russian soldiers backed off and spoke with one another, they returned and told him he was right, he should stay with his family. They shot him dead on the spot. Then they took all of the food in the house and took the chickens and pig. His then 9 year old son and 7 year old daughter dug his grave in the back yard. My father saw the grave site. Aunt Nasta never remarried, but she did raise her children and died in 1998 at age 92.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)I guess we as Americans can't really grasp the brutality that some humans can inflict on other humans.
I of course I recall the segregated America as a child raised in the 60s but was far removed from it growing up in the rural Upper Peninsula Michigan.
There are really no words to say when you hear stories such as your family has... My Daughter has conveyed to me that much of Ukraine wants nothing to do with Russia and I can see why after hearing your story. No wonder they didn't even want her to speak Russian. I have read up on some of the history of Ukraine and it certainly has a brutal past.
We can only hope this is the time.... this is where the Ukrainians finally break from their past and move forward.
Thank you so much for sharing your history. Every little bit helps me understand the culture where my Daughter lives.
This time in her life will be a very influential moment. She will never be the same now that she has witnessed people willing to die for their freedom.
Cheers to all the good Ukrainians!
pampango
(24,692 posts)It is really wonderful to get some "real person" stories about a country that had gone through so much both historically and recently. And welcome to DU.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)Your appreciation is much appreciated!
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)As well as the Great Purge. Those were dark times.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)with his family at that time or even prior. I don't think there was much mail service. I remember even in the years following the breakup of the Soviet Union, my family were concerned avout getting mail with 'subversive' stamps so we had to be sure to use postage that did not include the American flag.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)There hasn't been much progress over there this past century.
proudretiredvet
(312 posts)But I do understand human suffering in that situation.
Please tell your daughter to be safe.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)Your words are speak truth for many people. I just know my Daughter and what she stands for and she stands for all that is right. She has lived there now for nearly 4 years and I trust her point of view without question.
proudretiredvet
(312 posts)I've been in the middle of many messes similar to this but I've never had to stand back knowing one of my children was that close to unrest of this scope.
Take care of yourself as well.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 22, 2014, 04:53 AM - Edit history (1)
Yes.. there is concern and of course I would be devastated should harm come her way. Yet as I have stated in other threads.... she is intelligent and competent. She is exactly where she needs to be at this time on her journey. I raised her to listen to her heart and blaze her own trail. The above message shows me that she has done just that. We are the creators of our world and we choose the path we follow. Her path lead to Ukraine of all places...I am just happy that she is doing what she feels is the right thing. Not what her mother or I think is the right thing. I trust her judgement.
I guided her to adulthood with as little baggage as I could manage.... now she is free.
This experience will most likely define much of her life. Seeing people willing to die for their freedom cannot not change you. You can feel it in her words.
When she comes back to the United States she will be ready to be a leader also.
At one point in her life she had visions of being a politician. She would make an outstanding one if she ever decides to give it a try. But where ever or whatever she decides it will be good.
proudretiredvet
(312 posts)Honesty, integrity, with some real world experience.
Now that would be a great change from everything that has been thrust on us for the last 40 years.
There are few people on the entire political horizon that I believe have much to offer us.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)Europe is much more "globalized" than the US or Russia. And they have a much stronger middle class in Europe and a much fairer distribution of income than regressive countries like the US and Russia.
Fighting for the 99% is not a function of trade but of a progressive tax policy, support for strong unions and a commitment to an effective safety net. Europe has them. The US and Russia do not.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)have to ignore the fact that the bottom 70% of the world have benefited even more than the top 5% in the last 25 years.
The 1% do just fine in country's with relatively little trade. Indeed, they do better there than anywhere else.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)the costly trade agreements as it puts more cash in their pockets.... and that cash comes from the middle class of developed countries!!!
It also gives them the autonomy to pollute and externalize costs at the expense of our health and environment.
A fair trade chart would show a reverse exponential curve with the income for the poor increasing while the income for the hoarders decreases.
pampango
(24,692 posts)the income of the Western middle class has stagnated or worse. I believe that a trading system that has benefitted the poorest 70% of the world is a good one. We can go after the obscene income gains of the top 1-5% in other ways and use that to help the Western middle class and the poorest 5%.
Cutting off the nose of the poorest 70% to spite the face of the 1% makes less sense. Our middle class can be helped from the excess gains of the 1% without trashing a trading system that has helped so many poor people.
Response to MysticHuman (Original post)
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hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)How are you?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)... depsite the looney toons here who will tell you the protestors are all just puppets of the extreme right.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)I trust my Daughter and although she does say there are factions of violent people...by far the majority are peaceful but determined.
Thanks for your kind words... they are much appreciated.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I live overseas in Korea. She should keep a real low profile until this is over. I hope for the sake of the Ukrainian people it ends soon.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)She has been low profile for several weeks now. Early on she and her friends did go and give food and water to those protesting in Independence Square...but she stopped quite awhile ago. Although some of her male friends have continued to help as they can.
Her employer has allowed her to work from her apartment so she really doesn't have to go out much atm.
We can only hope the "truce" and compromise ends the stand off.
Peace...
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)where people are fighting for a "better, freer future". Thanks for sharing this from your daughter and I certainly hope she is safe.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)She is... and she messages me daily!
merrily
(45,251 posts)MysticHuman
(219 posts)Amazing events over the last 24 hours.... she is still safe and says there is a celebratory energy being felt by all who stood for the cause.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)showed families with children out on the streets of Kiev. There was a lady walking her dog. This certainly is history in the making for Ukraine.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)The police and military refused to take action from the President.
It is a step in the right direction. I haven't heard from my Daughter since early this morning...I am anxious to hear how things went for her and her friends today.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)Yanukovych is somewhere in west Ukraine and said he will not step down. I don't think that he has support from parliment or the military, so he will probably end up in Russia.
Response to MysticHuman (Original post)
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Paula Sims
(877 posts)I am a Ukrainian who just had the most heart-wrenching discussion with my family. My Father and his family were all Ukrainian freedom fighters for decades and my Mother and her family (parents, brother) fled the night they were told they were being deported to Siberia. I'm Ukrainian to the core and I'm doing something about it. My husband's distant family came from Galicia, consider themselves Polish, although I have convinced my husband that there might be some Ukie blood in him (and he's come to accept it).
In about a month I'll be in the homeland doing what I can do. I realize it's the last time my family might see me alive and they hate my decision, but they understand. I can't just watch. I pray I do not encounter violence, that I can be of some help, but we'll see what happens. I'll be mostly in the Western part but will travel where I must. I plan to stay a few months but that might change. With God's help, I can do some good. Sadly, I have friends and family that have been killed.
We Ukrainians just want one thing -- to be treated as humans. We want the dignity of having a homeland, being able to speak our own language, and live as proud beings. We are sick of being lied to, used, murdered. Peaceful protests have done no good. This passion goes back hundreds, over a thousand years through the yolk of tyranny of Russia, Mongols, Tatars, Polish, Germans, whomever. We've always been a stepping stone or useful in other ways. We've sided with the devil we didn't know because the devil we did know was too unbearable. Now we need to look within. I pray we don't find another devil but I fear we might.
May 25th will be interesting but it's a long way until that date, and sadly, I fear mostly May 26th. . .
Prayers for you, your daughter, and all involved.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)As a "father" to a wonderful daughter who has been humbled by the will of the Ukrainian people, I can only wish you well on your journey. There are no accidents in life. We choose our path and create our world as we go. I have a good feeling that this will be the turning point for all of Ukraine. The good will of those who have stood for human rights and dignity will prevail.
Although I cannot be there with you... my beloved Daughter is there, helping as she can, supporting her friends and your family as Ukraine moves forward in these difficult times.
The world is watching and waiting.... more than one country now has come forth to encourage the change and recognize the rights of the Ukrainian people.
I salute you and your brothers & sisters as your country stands proud and free. I salute those that were martyred in the fight for their rights and their country.
May peace follow you on your travels...
MH