Poll re white privilege

[gollygee]

What do you think?

48 votes, 3 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	It is a real thing
	43 (90%)
	I don't buy it
	5 (10%)
	3 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[HappyMe]

1. Of course it's a real thing.

[gollygee]

3. I read in a thread

that most people at DU don't buy it. I don't know what most people at DU think for sure but that wasn't my impression, so I thought I might try to get a better idea.

[HappyMe]

4. I only posted in a couple of those threads.

I pretty much said the same thing I said here - it sure is a thing and how can people not think it's real.

This should be interesting.

[1awake]

17. most of those threads are filled with people who already agree it exists.

but argue over semantics.

[gollygee]

19. I was inspired by this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024580633#post32

Specifically:

"White privilege", is subscribed to by only a very small minority of Democrats overall. Even the majority of DUers don't buy it.

That was my impression but sometimes it's hard to tell.

[1awake]

27. People get hung up on the one word thinking it means what it doesnt.

White privilege has little to do with Privilege and more to do with fairness. If a group is being discriminated upon, than there is another group inherently still there on the other side who achieves fair treatment based on whatever the discrimination is based on... in this case skin tone. Receiving anything special is irrelevant and not what the phrase is talking about.

To be open, I get hung up ont he 100% coverage argument... not on whether it exists or not... it does.

[MH1]

87. Yes, people tend to think "privilege" means the privileged group has something positive

handed to them, but in this case "privilege" just means the absence of the serious negative of being treated like shit or assumed to be shit, just because of one's skin color.

[Chathamization]

92. A "privilege" that still allows for one to be treated horribly for a variety of other reasons

I mean, I could start a poll at DU saying, "Does anyone really deny that Matthew Shephard had white privilege?", but what exactly would I be proving?

[CreekDog]

131. 2 of those voting "no": 1 has zero posts at DU, another has 1 post at DU

[HappyMe]

132. Crawling out from under the bridge, I guess.

[Gormy Cuss]

137. So what?

They've been doing their DUty by serving on juries.

[el_bryanto]

2. It's an interesting debate

I don't know if the debate is about whether or not it exists (only a few have denied it existing at all) - but the debate is more about how we should or if we should be discussing it.

Bryant

[Iggo]

5. Of course, it's real.

[badtoworse]

6. I reject framing the issue as a matter of privilege

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. ...even when it clearly is.

Understood.

[badtoworse]

9. Nope. Not being discriminated against is a right, not a privilege.

The fact that some people don't have that right is an injustice.

[ScreamingMeemie]

10. Nope. It's a privilege as it stands in society today.

And we should be comfortable acknowledging that.

[badtoworse]

13. Definition of privilege from Merriam Webster

Full definition: a right or immunity granted as a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor : prerogative; especially: such a right or immunity attached specifically to a position or an office.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/privilege

In my view, defining not being discriminated against as a privilege legitimizes the fact that some people are discriminated against. You may enjoy certain privileges as a member of a club, but the club has discretion in whether it wants you as a member. That's OK if we're talking about a country club, but not when the issue is civil rights.

[ScreamingMeemie]

15. Merriam's definition fits white privilege to a T.

Here's the thing, when my son goes out to hang with his buddies tonight, I don't have to worry about him being shot because he "looks" like an All-American whitebread boy... When he gets his license, he will not be pulled over for being in the "wrong" neighborhood here in my Houston suburb. My neighbors' sons? They aren't as privileged.

But you know this, and the term makes you uncomfortable. That about shapes it up.

[badtoworse]

18. Your neighbors' sons are experiencing injustice

Your son is being treated like everyone's son should be treated. We'll just have to disagree as to whether he is receiving a privilege.

ETA: The term does not make uncomfortable at all. I know that injustice exists; I believe that is wrong and I'm comfortable with my view of the matter.

[ScreamingMeemie]

22. No, my son is experiencing the many benefits of white privilege.

No matter how uncomfortable acknowledging that makes you feel. He knows it at 15.

[badtoworse]

25. What makes you think I'm uncomfortable?

And why should saying "white privilege exists" make anyone more uncomfortable than saying "racial injustice exists"?

[1StrongBlackMan]

53. Assuming you are white ...

the former attaches (positively/benefits) to you; whereas, the latter (negatively/hinders) attaches to some other.

[badtoworse]

56. That is not in question. The issue is why frame it in an intellectually dishonest way.

People who would otherwise be sympathetic might very likely object to being manipulated.

[AverageJoe90]

66. Pretty much this. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

90. I guess were one stands on this issue depends on where one sits. eom.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

48. Are you one of those people who argue you can't be a homophobe because you are not "afraid" of gays?

Or Arabs can't be anti-Semites because they are Semitic?

[badtoworse]

49. The short answer is no.

[AverageJoe90]

65. Me too. In fact, I liked what you pointed out earlier:

Not being discriminated against because of your skin color is a *right*, not a fuckin' privilege. That is exactly correct. It makes *perfect* sense.

[CreekDog]

127. you prefer to think you ran to 1st base.

[badtoworse]

133. You don't know a damn thing about me or how I got to where I am now.

[CreekDog]

134. that's irrelevant

white privilege doesn't mean your life was easy, nor that you didn't do key things that accounted for your success.

it just means that in this society, your skin color wasn't the same barrier to success that it is among the nonwhite.

[badtoworse]

136. I don't consider that privilege

[AverageJoe90]

139. Then again, CreekDog is a user who apparently believes.....

that anyone who disagrees with them on this, is supposedly somebody who somehow thinks that racism isn't hurtful:

www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4603301

Of course, the accusation was completely & undeniably untrue and 100% false in this case, but I guess that didn't stop CD from doing it anyway. Self-delusion is a powerful thing sometimes.....

[badtoworse]

140. He's not a poster I'd spend much time with

[seabeyond]

8. are you sure you are allowed to post about this? i think not. i have seen you

in hof. i think i am being told that makes this conversation out of bounds for you. hmmmmm.

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. It looks like she's in charge of it, so...

[seabeyond]

12. well, geez screaming, someones gotta be. nt

[bravenak]

28. +1

I'm also out of my element apparently.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. Yeah. This here being downtown and all.

[JustAnotherGen]

120. Me too! We better run Bravenak.

Be afraid or someone is gonna call Ruckus!

[URL=http://gifsoup.com/view/2837071/uncle-ruckus.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://gifsoup.com]GIFSoup[/URL]

[yellowcanine]

14. I passed because I think the OP is just trying to stir up trouble with polls like this.

I think white privilege is real but I am not at all sure that my understanding of it is the same as that of the OP. One thing I do not agree with is using terminology to divide people who otherwise are likely mostly in agreement about an issue - which is exactly what the OP is doing, imo.

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. The OP is not trying to "stir up trouble."

The "trouble" (I call it a gaping disgusting problem) is already here. And it shocks the heck out of me.

[hfojvt]

20. What IS the trouble?

that five or six people on DU dare to disagree with something that should be settled dogma?

[yellowcanine]

24. In your opinion no. In my opinion yes.

Creating unnecessary divisions among people who are in agreement on the goal (justice for all) but who may differ in tactics only serves the interests of those who are intent on denying justice for some groups of people.

[Cali_Democrat]

47. Rosa Parks....she was just stirring up trouble!!!

[yellowcanine]

122. I call BS on the comparison. The OP isn't putting anything on the line.

Rosa Parks put everything on the line. Comparisons like that insult the memory of Rosa Parks.

[gollygee]

130. I'm not putting anything on the line

so I agree that any comparison between me posting this and Rosa Parks is silly.

But I wasn't trying to stir up trouble either. Someone said that only a tiny minority of Democrats agree with the existence of white privilege (which he calls white privilege theory I think) and that even on DU it's a minority opinion. That was not at all my impression of where DU is. I feel like it's a pretty small minority of people opposed to the concept of white privilege (though I think it's a larger minority than this poll suggests) but I am not always that good at guessing where DU generally is on stuff, so I thought I'd make a poll.

[yellowcanine]

135. "White privilege" is too elusive a concept for a good poll.

It means too many different things to different people. I suspect that most people would concede that it exists depending if you actually gave some examples - they would say, yes, you are not as likely to get stopped for suspicion of drugs if you are white - I consider that "white privilege", some may not. Throwing out the term in a poll is just going to open a can of worms, imo.

[MrMickeysMom]

62. Is there something special about the OP's author that I should know?

I thought members could post polls and I've rarely seen anyone qualify the question, based on who they are. It would not matter to me, regardless. I'd answer the question, which is a no brainer to me.

[gollygee]

21. An aside: I love the disclaimer on the poll.

"Disclaimer: This is an internet poll."

LOL

[wandy]

23. It is a real thing. That is until you get old...............

Then you go in the trash can with everyone else.
Silly, silly Teapublican old white men.
They think Bullroar and Bullshit will protect them from time.

Somehow we may mature to where we treat each other as equals regardless of age, color or beliefs.
Somehow I feel that by one means or another we will cause our own extinction, by one means or another, long before that happens.
Probably because of some type of "My Special" privilege or another.

[LittleBlue]

26. Everyone agrees that minorities face discrimination

And everyone here (I'm assuming) wants to achieve equality.

Not everyone agrees with using the word "privilege".

It's pretty simple.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. that is a bit superficial.

The disagreement is not just the word choice, it is about the actual meaning of the word and how it relates to race, gender, sex, and class.

[LittleBlue]

36. If word choice is superficial

then why is it important to make thread after thread about how we must accept the term "white privilege"? If it's all the same, and everyone here agrees that equality is a noble goal, then these threads are unnecessary.

As someone else pointed out, MLK didn't use the term. The word "privilege" isn't in the Democratic Party Platform. So why are the words so important?

[badtoworse]

37. I'd love to see your question answered.

[Warren Stupidity]

39. your analysis is superficial.

Objecting to specific words or the way arguments are being framed etc. is known as the "tone argument", and it is a well known technique for deflecting and diverting away from the actual issues.

The poser of the tone argument gets to "have his cake and eat it" as it were, avoiding the ugly implications of actually rejecting the concept, while attempting to put those making the argument on the defensive.

A tone argument is an argument used in discussions, sometimes by Concern trolls and sometimes as a Derailment, in which it is suggested that feminists would be more successful if only they expressed themselves in a more pleasant tone. This is also sometimes described as catching more flies with honey than with vinegar, a particular variant of the tone argument.

The tone argument is a form of derailment, or a red herring, because the tone of a statement is independent of the content of the statement in question, and calling attention to it distracts from the issue at hand. Drawing attention to the tone rather than content of a statement can allow other parties to avoid engaging with sound arguments presented in that statement, thus undermining the original party's attempt to communicate and effectively shutting them down.

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_argument

Seriously, the issue is not one of word choice.

[LittleBlue]

42. You cite what amounts to a blog

with some unprovable dogmatic doctrine. I suppose if I couldn't support my ideas with logic, and couldn't argue them persuasively, I could also make a wiki page.

But you can't explain to me why the Democratic Party doesn't think "privilege" is important enough to put in the platform. And you can't tell me why MLK made the most persuasive argument in US history for racial equality without using the term "white privilege".

I guess I'll side with them over geekfeminism.com

[Warren Stupidity]

44. OK, so no dialog here. You will reject the word used and pretend that

you accept the concept the word is expressing. Got it.

[LittleBlue]

45. I asked two questions of you

I got no answers from you.

Textbook dodge. I'm guessing that's because the point I'm making is too destructive to your argument, so you must avoid it or concede the obvious. One can quite easily believe in racial equality without using that term. Many have, including MLK.

In that case there is nothing left to talk about. Good day.

[badtoworse]

43. You're dodging the question

Nobody is disputing that racial injustice exists or that it's wrong, so why would anyone need to use a "tone argument"? In my view, there must be a reason for defining an issue as something that it obviously isn't. In essence that is the question.

[1StrongBlackMan]

54. Yes ...

But those that disagree with using the word "privilege" also are the ones denying that they possess said privilege.

[yewberry]

73. I confess I do not understand your objection to the term.

This issue is not really the same thing as oppression or discrimination, and it doesn't fully line up with 'minority vs majority' thinking. Institutionalized advantages are a real thing in this world, and that's what we're talking about. 'Privilege' doesn't mean a free pass to the golf club, and it doesn't mean that anyone succeeds or fails simply because of what body they were born with.

What, specifically, is your objection? What word or words would be acceptable to you, with the caveat that those words would have to address the reality that there are advantages to being a member of certain groups? Understand, please, that the argument here is *not* that being a member of any group guarantees a life of bliss, but that there are some advantages to being, for example, citizen/male/white/upper-class/physically able/hetero/christian/cis in the United States. (And if there is any doubt there, would you prefer to be undocumented/female/black/poor/disabled/lesbian/muslim/trans if given the choice?)

Sorry, it really, really isn't simple.

Thanks.

[cui bono]

95. There are people who use the example that some blacks have it way better than a good portion

of whites and therefore there is no "privilege". That's the same as arguing discrimination doesn't exist because there are rich black people.

That's not the same as arguing that they don't like the term.

[AverageJoe90]

106. Very true.

I mean, I get that some people like to use it as a philosophical tool(see, Denise Velez for example). And I'm okay with that, personally. And there are some who insist on the literal definition as well; that's alright, too. However, my problem is, is that some people in the latter category seem to be all too willing to talk down to people and try to shove it down our throats, screaming "You are privileged! Accept this! You are privileged....." etc. That's what I *DO* take issue with.

[CTyankee]

29. I went to a segregated schools, rode in white only bus seating, drank from white

water fountains. It couldn't have been much clearer to me that I was white and that was "better." When white kids got a new school, the black kids got the old one. How could anyone not miss the message there?

[Warpy]

30. Really? I drank from the older, funky "colored" fountain when nobody was looking

because I figured nobody had spit in that one.

I didn't go to a segregated school until I was in sixth grade. "All white?" What a joke! There were Mexican kids, Cherokee kids, Chinese kids, Arab kids, Japanese kids, and a few very dark kids from India. There just weren't any home grown African kids. I got the point but I don't think it was the point they wanted me to get.

[CTyankee]

35. I was always terrified that I would get in trouble...

and my parents would have to be involved. that really scared me...

[Warren Stupidity]

32. You should ask the same questions re male and straight

[kwassa]

34. Fascinating result, so far.

Judging by the amount of bitching, I though a much larger percentage of DU disbelieved in white privilege. At this point, 94% believes white privilege is a real thing.

edit to add: my mother in law went to segregated schools, and my wife was the first to desegregate the local white school as a kindergartner.

[BainsBane]

38. For some reasons they don't like to declare themselves in polls

I'm not really sure why because it's not like their views are a secret. They've stated them forcefully in threads. I've noticed that on other controversial issues as well.

[Starry Messenger]

40. There are some significant holdouts.

But they are still a tiny but loud group.

[kwassa]

46. yes, the most vocal opponents have not participated in the poll.

Not surprising.

[cherokeeprogressive]

41. White Privilege is the new Original Sin. n/t

[Inkfreak]

50. Ha! funny. (nt)

[Gravitycollapse]

57. Jesus Christ...

[cherokeeprogressive]

59. No I'm just Chris. Jesus Christ minus the Jesus, and the t. Yeah, pretty much just Chris.

And is there some point to that guy's blank stare, or is there something in the background I'm supposed to be looking at? The hangars? The bowties? Or maybe it's the foreground... His handkerchief? His tie? Not gettin' it.

Tell me how, exactly, "white privilege" is unlike the Christian notion of "original sin".

[Gravitycollapse]

60. They're exactly alike as long as you don't know what it means to have white privilege.

That is an "are you fucking kidding me" stare, by the way.

White privilege is the systematic advantage, socially and economically, inherent in society towards white persons compared to other racial and ethnic groups.

For instance, being able to walk down the streets of New York City without being stopped and frisked is a luxury disproportionately enjoyed by white individuals. This lack of proportionality is indicative of deeply racist attitudes in the criminal justice system that both favor whites and punish minorities.

That is one example of white privilege. There are many more.

[cherokeeprogressive]

64. You are right, and I was wrong. I apologize.

What you're describing is the mirror image of Original Sin.

[AverageJoe90]

67. "What you're describing is the mirror image of Original Sin."

Unfortunately, this has become all too true, sadly. And it shouldn't have to be!

[LostOne4Ever]

86. False equivalency in the extreme

Original Sin is the concept that we are all born inheriting the sin of Adam and Eve and the eating of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. Depending on your theology, because of this sin we are are all condemned to die or that we are condemned to hell unless we seek salvation through believing in and accepting the teachings of Yeshua (Jesus Christ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin

Further, according to Islam-Judeo-Christian tradition, a sin is a violation of god's will or law. No one is accusing anyone of violating god's will or law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin

You are not being condemned in any shape form or way in white privilege, rather it is describing how society treats you. Its like being born rich. You have certain advantages that others would not have as a result of what class/race/sex/orientation you were born as or because of your religious affiliations. A person born white is far more likely to be given the benefit of doubt over someone born as an African American.

Acknowledging privilege is not about condemning someone, but rather recognizing these unfair advantages and either re-addressing one's own thought process to take this into account or reforming society to make it more egalitarian.

AGAIN:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege_(social_inequality)

By denying that this exists you are indirectly defending the institutionalized discrimination going on in our society and helping keep it alive.

[CreekDog]

128. climate change denier doesn't think racism hurts minorities and helps whites

if only this were surprising.

[AverageJoe90]

138. Are you honestly fucking serious about this shit? Really?

Here, just to emphasize the problem:

doesn't think racism hurts minorities and helps whites

Okay, CD, where's the proof?.....oh, wait, that's right. There is none. You are completely self-deluded if you actually believe this line of crap you just spouted.

[Gravitycollapse]

69. Then you probably don't understand original sin or mirrors.

The largest difference, of course, is that original sin is mythology, dogma really, and antithetical to empiricism. Of course, white privilege is something very easily explained and only slightly less so observed.

The aesthetics of original sin and white privilege may favor a shallow comparison but they are upon even the most basic analysis totally and utterly unrelated beyond that.

[cherokeeprogressive]

80. Yada yada yada yada yada yada yada Ad nauseam...

You were born THIS WAY... so you bear the weight (good or bad) of those who were born THIS WAY before you...

The sins of the fathers and all that.

Yeah. Go tell it to someone else.

My Great Great Grandparents marched... and marched... and marched... at gunpoint. They marched halfway across this fucking continent. Those who couldn't march any longer, and stopped to rest? They were simply shot without a moment's notice or warning.

I carry 13/64ths of their blood. My CDIB says so. My Tribal Roll Card says MY Dawes Roll Numbers are 29972 and 29909. Toolie Catron and Hester Flute. Look them up. MY blood line goes back to a woman named NANCY. Lots of people know who SHE is. Look HER up. I pass as white, though I've been told about a thousand times that from the eyes up I look like the actor Graham Greene.

My Grandfather was born on the reservation in Tahlequah. He married a white woman from the city (interracial marriage? You decide. Taking a chance? YOU DECIDE). They had to move to the central valley in California in order to get away from what others saw as wrong. My Mom was born in Hanford, and mysteriously... everyone left the room before My Grandmother went into labor after finding out who my Grandfather was. My Grandmother gave birth BY HER FUCKING SELF. All these white people LEFT HER ALONE when they found out her Husband was a Native American (Cherokee). Strange thing... and she told me this HERSELF... they were farm workers, my Grandfather and Her. Mexicans weren't treated like that. She gave birth with no one else in the room. How many women in the history of the fucking WORLD have had to do that? Might I add that she was a FUCKING WHITE WOMAN who just happened to be married to a Cherokee?

But I digress...

So as I sit at the next table from you in the restaurant... you see me as just another white guy. When I tip my server 30% or more, you don't notice, how could you know? I'm just another WHITE GUY to you (read PRIVILEGED). Simply because a white girl (RIP Grandma) from Tahlequah had an eye for my MORE THAN HANDSOME GRANDPA (may the Great Spirit Rest His Soul), and My Half-Breed Mom met a Sailor in Long Beach at some stupid dance and fell in love with HIM, I pass as white.

Thank GOODNESS for the privilege I was BORN with.

Sleep well... knowing how your view of the world is right.

[Gravitycollapse]

83. Passing as white and being white are the same thing.

As for your ancestors, they very clearly didn't possess the ability to exist within white privilege as you have obviously noticed they chose to associate with persons in abject groups. And this is seen by the privilege system as a betrayal and the system works to destroy this. Which says nothing of your ability. It merely means you possess an awareness of this disparity which should actually make you more aware of your privilege. Although you seem intent on denying such privilege exists. Which is unfortunate.

See, white privilege isn't passed down to you by your family. It is passed on to you by society.

[cherokeeprogressive]

85. Wow. Empathy. Heard of it? Buy some maybe?

Read your two paragraphs, then read them again. Fuck... read them FIVE times real slow. Find the empathy in them. FIND it. FIND ONE EMPATHETIC WORD. When you do, could you PLEASE point it out to me? Because no matter HOW many times I read it, I can't find a DROP of empathy in a SINGLE WORD you chose to post.

Your single-minded need to prove your point blinds you to ANY view that doesn't dovetail with what you have to say.

I tried. Failed. Such is life.

[pipoman]

98. Then again you may simply be choosing to be racially divisive

By changing the description that already has a name to a more divisive one. What you continue to describe has been known as racial discrimination for decades, why do you need to refer to racial discrimination as 'white privilege'?

[Gravitycollapse]

99. White privilege isn't a new term. You know that, right?

[pipoman]

102. I'm sure it has been used by the racially divisive for a long time.

[Gravitycollapse]

104. If you wish to accuse me of something, at least have the courage to say it directly.

[pipoman]

105. I'll take that as,

'I agree it is racially divisive and choose not to acknowledge it is'.

[Gravitycollapse]

108. What you have taken is not what I've said nor what I believe.

I am not a puppet for you to inject your own bias into. I possess my own thoughts and conclusions.


The term "white privilege" provides no more divisiveness to the subject of discrimination than the term "racial discrimination." I neither believe otherwise nor have I ever implied otherwise. And to state that I have is in extremely bad faith on your part.

As I stated before, if you wish to accuse me of something, at least have the courage to say it directly.

[Number23]

109. "why do you need to refer to racial discrimination as 'white privilege'?"

Who benefits from the racial discrimination?

[pipoman]

110. Can't answer a question with a question. .

[Number23]

112. lol No, you WON'T answer. Instead you'll continue with these tired little games

That fool no one.

[pipoman]

114. Someone who quoted a question without answering

Complaining that others won't answer their question. ..

[Number23]

115. Keep playing. Again, fooling no one.

No one at all.

And there has been no "complaining" in my post and I don't even understand why you're pretending that I did. But I guess if you're going to pretend not to be able to answer the question of who benefits from racial discrimination in the US, you can probably pretend anything.

Your decision to enter this thread was not a good one.

[pipoman]

116. Lol

[Skittles]

51. of course it's real

anyone "not buying it" is fucking clueless

[Kip Humphrey]

52. as one, of course. There is a wealth privilege as well. There is a bully privilege and a male

privilege... I think, in America, wealth privilege trumps the others. Does anyone question that a white male rich bully has it made, in America?

[Gravitycollapse]

61. Hooray for unnecessary categorical hierarchies.

[handmade34]

55. ....

http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html#daily



http://www.transgendercartoongallery.com/2013/04/the-downsides-of-white-privilege/


Macklemore...
http://easterneronline.com/2014/02/28/grammys-macklemore-demonstrate-white-privilege/

[WatermelonRat]

121. See, this is why there's so much resistance to the term.

Who would embrace something that labels them "overall assholish"? Between its use as a perjorative and the clumsy metaphors that compare being white to living in the lap of luxury, it's no wonder that people take offense to it.

[Arcanetrance]

58. Personally I agree it exists now I do think there are degrees to it

I think some may have more privilege than others but as a whole. I'm privileged in certain situations for example when I clean up and wear more than jeans and old concert shirt and say go to a nice restaurant there's not gonna be eyes following me. Where as a black couple tries there's eyes following them and a almost how dare they attitude. I work as a chef and I've heard even waitstaff say shit like I don't want to wait on the black couple they'll stiff me but the white couple gets the benefit of the doubt.

[ismnotwasm]

63. White privilege Check list

Daily effects of white privilege

I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

[nomorenomore08]

68. Yet people will keep insisting they have no significant advantage over anyone else.

It's the most myopic form of self-flattery.

[Bonobo]

70. Yes. A whole 7%.

Does 7% justify the treatment this issue is getting?

It seems quite obvious to me that White men and women have a privilege in Western society.

But it is also an over simplification in that it ignores all sorts of mitigating factors such as class, degrees of "whiteness", etc.

I am coming to believe from the people posting over and over on it that it has become another flail to be used in a DU proxy war and you can count me out.

[Gravitycollapse]

71. Who's denying degrees of whiteness?

[Bonobo]

74. I didn't say "denying" it GC, just that it was being ignored

for the most part.

[Gravitycollapse]

75. We can talk about it if you want.

[Bonobo]

76. I'd like to, especially if it wouldn't label me as a "white privilege denier"

Things are feeling a bit like a witch hunt these days on DU and I am not sure that there is much room for nuance without being attacked.

But since you have kindly invited me, I will add my personal experience as a Jew. Some Jews are very identifiable as being Jewish. My father was one and me too in a way. In the area we grew up in, we could not date certain people, could not join certain country clubs (Yes, country clubs, middle class people did those things 40 years ago!) and would not have been welcomed in many other settings I am pretty sure.

Even now, Jews don't have all the openings that what we considered "real White people&quot W.A.S.P.s) could enjoy.
I imagine this is true not just for Jews, but for other ethnic looking caucasians as well.

So, within White Privilege, there is a great deal of variation on just how far that privilege extends. Was I as privileged as a WASPY woman? IDK. But just my own experience suggests that it is an issue on a sliding analog scale rather than one which is yes/no digital.

[Gravitycollapse]

77. As a person of Jewish ancestry, who displays stereotypical physical traits, I agree.

I was once run off the road by racist skinheads. Although I don't remember any other particularly distinct moment where I've felt specifically targeted malevolently. But I understand what you're saying in that white privilege doesn't guarantee the utmost accommodation to all white persons.

White privilege exists along a continuum and is not equal among white individuals. However, the important function to remember is that, in specific circumstance, a white individual will almost always be presented with a superior outcome to a non-white individual. The reason why this is such an absolute is that white privilege is systemic and diffuse, operating nearly completely blind to the conscious prejudice of any single person.

It is codified into every aspect of life and it is in this way that it transcends , as all systemic prejudice does, any one person and thus resists change or identification.

[Bonobo]

78. Well said and I completely agree. nt

[Gravitycollapse]

79. Yes, so one could ask, as others have, what should be done with such information?

One of the most important things anyone can do is to simply know that white privilege exists. To make yourself consciously aware of this helps immensely in identifying the little moments when you're given an advantage. And, at least what I've found, this consciousness causes you to become aware of privilege when you would have ignored it in the past.

Once you become aware of these little advantageous interactions, you can work to resist. Although, this only allows you to resist your advantage if you're white.

It is like sticking your hand into a stream. You can feel the current running around your fingers, pressing them, trying to carry you along. But once you pull your hand out, you cease to experience the flow even though it continues regardless of your awareness. How can one person possibly leave a lasting impression on such a thing? I don't have definite answers but I suppose the best way I can think of it is incrementally. Resist it whenever you have these micro-encounters and hope, even against reason, that you've done something just differently enough to affect permanent change even if it is a tiny difference.

[kwassa]

91. excellent post!

Good analysis.

[BainsBane]

81. The people who have been arguing the issue haven't even responded to the poll

That often seems to happen on these controversial issues. I'm not really sure why.

[Bonobo]

82. I can think of a few reasons.

For those that deny white privilege:
-They might not want their name on the poll, or
-They might not want the number of deniers to increase in the poll in general.

For those that argue vociferously about white privilege,:
-They might not want the number of people who admit it to increase because they want it to continue to look like there are more dinners than there are.

[pipoman]

113. In my case I believe that poll is flawed

In the term is racially divisive. If the poll was "does racial discrimination exist in the US against non - whites" I suspect the outcome would be a little different. Isn't that the question being asked worded differently?

[gollygee]

119. I'm not sure I understand

You think if the poll were:

Does racial discrimination exist in the US against non-whites?

Yes
No

That there would be more No votes than Yes? Or that there would be a higher percentage of no votes than the current poll?

That doesn't make sense to me at all. That seems even less controversial and I suspect it would be close to 100% for yes.

Or is that what you mean? That almost everyone would vote yes in that case?

If that's what you mean, then that wasn't what I was wondering about. I was specifically wondering whether people agree that white privilege is a real thing. Someone said that only a tiny percentage of Democrats agree it's a real thing, and only a minority of DUers think it's a real thing. That wasn't my impression at all, but it's often really hard to tell without a poll.

[whistler162]

101. 51.

I can count on being the subject of a new thread every day!

[lumberjack_jeff]

72. The fact that it's a real thing misses the point

The problem is that we stop there. Continually jawboning people for "the benefits they derive from racism" distracts from the need to do anything about it.

"White privilege"? Okay, fine. So now what?

Crickets.

The issue with "white privilege" is that it has become the destination in its own right and not a vehicle to solve the problem.

[Blue_In_AK]

84. Agree.

[rbrnmw]

88. All you have to do is turn on Faux Newz

they are a vile bunch that attack POTUS and FLOTUS on an hourly basis. just because they are in the WH

[LostOne4Ever]

89. Funny

I just saw a thread saying that a majority of people on DU don't believe in white privilege.

Soooo much for that idea

[gollygee]

93. That is what inspired this

if it was a post from yesterday.

[LostOne4Ever]

94. Ahhhh

I see.

Im bad at looking at time stamps

[Number23]

97. Thanks so much for this poll and for your posts on the matter

It helps alot.

[gollygee]

118. Thanks!

[WatermelonRat]

96. The academic concept is valid.

If group A is discriminated against and group B is not, then implicitly group B is comparatively advantaged. They aren't necessarily on easy street or automatically successful, but in a relative aspect, they're better off overall.

Unfortunately, the term itself has acquired connotations that go well beyond this, and that is why there is much resistance to it.

[pipoman]

103. It is a racially divisive term

For something which has a non divisive alternative, 'racial discrimination'.

[KentuckyWoman]

100. Lucky enough to be born in the west is by far my biggest privilege.

We Americans enjoy a standard of living built on the poor treatment of people in other countries. Add a couple more privilege point for light skin yes. But the bulk of my privilege in this life is being lucky enough to be born in this country at this time.

[moriah]

107. Scary: that this question has to be asked. Scarier: The (currently) 8% saying they don't buy it.

Wow.

I'm rather shocked.

[Quixote1818]

111. It's refreshing to see these numbers in the poll

Gives me hope for this country. At least from one party.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

117. "I don't buy it" is picking up steam.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

124. It's a misleading term used to refer to a real thing.

"White people have it better than non-white people " is a real thing.

But white people *don't* have it better than they would in an all-white society, and non-white people *do* have it worse, so "white privilege" is a deeply misleading term - "non-white disprivilege" is a much better descriptor.

[gollygee]

125. The issue is

feeling like white is "normal" and how white people experience the world is "normal." Enough people are not white that the average is somewhere between our experience and the experience of people of color. They experience discrimination, which is worse than average, but we experience something better than average, and the things that make our experience better than average are privileges we get for being white.

One example: in our culture, white people are trusted more than people of color. Trust isn't just the lack of a negative. It's a positive.

[CreekDog]

126. what a surprise, mostly white, males answering "no"

and among our most conservative members to boot.

and a climate change denier among them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

129. this. nt