Ukrainian ultra-rightists given major Cabinet posts in government

[Starry Messenger]

http://peoplesworld.org/ukrainian-ultra-rightists-given-major-cabinet-posts-in-government/

The ultra-right Svoboda Party has scored six major cabinet ministries in the government of Arseniy Yatsenyuk approved by the Ukrainian parliament on Thursday. Svoboda is an ultra-right, anti-Semitic, Russophobic party with its base of support in the Western Ukraine.

The most important post was claimed by a co-founder of Svoboda, Andriy Parubiy. He was named Secretary of the Security and National Defense Committee, which supervises the defense ministry and the armed forces.


<snip>

The Right Sector is an openly fascist, anti-Semitic and anti-Russian organization. Most of the snipers and bomb throwers in the crowds were connected with this group.

Right Sector members have been participating in military training camps for the last two years or more in preparation for street activity of the kind witnessed in the Ukraine over the last few months.

The Right Sector, as can be seen by the appointment of Parubiy, is now in a position to control major appointments to the provisional government and has succeeded in achieving its long time goal of legalizing discrimination against Russians. The new parliament has passed legislation that declares Russian speakers no longer have equal rights with Ukrainians.

<snip>

[malaise]

1. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! n/t

[Pretzel_Warrior]

2. LIE: Andriy Barubiy is from Fatherland party of Tymoshenko--not Svoboda

this is a caretaker government until elections are held in May.

Here's a run down of who actually has been appointed to various positions and what their previous roles/affiliations have been.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25910834

[Starry Messenger]

5. The article states he was a co-founder of Svoboda, not a present member.

He's a Neo-Nazi party founder and present right-wing nationalist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Parubiy

"In the years leading up to the Ukrainian independence in 1991 Parubiy was an active activist for this independence, being arrested for holding an illegal rally in 1988.[2] In 1991 he founded the neo-Nazi[5] Social-National Party of Ukraine together with Oleh Tyahnybok.[2] Parubiy co-led the Orange Revolution in 2004.[2][6] In the 2007 parliamentary elections he was elected into the Ukrainian parliament on an Our Ukraine–People's Self-Defense Bloc ticket.[2] He then became a member of the deputy group that would later become For Ukraine!.[2] Parubiy stayed with Our Ukraine and became a member of its Political Council.[7]

In February 2010 Parubiy had asked the European Parliament to reconsider its negative reaction to former Ukrainian President Victor Yushchenko's decision to award Stepan Bandera, the leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, the title of Hero of Ukraine.[8]"

[Xithras]

8. Not a lie. He co-founded Svoboda as the article said. He joined Fatherland later.

In other words, he once founded a hardcore nationalist party with Nazi views, and left it for a party that is just as nationalist, but not so Nazi.

Yep, sounds like a good guy. I'd trust him to help run a free and progressive country

[cali]

12. wow. points for trying... I guess. weak as hell, but of course this is bad news

and your spin is absurd.

[Starry Messenger]

18. And *crickets*

[FarCenter]

3. Dymytro Yarosh of Right Sector is his deputy.

Dmytro Yarosh of Right Sector is the Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. We've been told, in no uncertain terms, that we should not concern ourselves

about these particular fucking Nazis, because these particular fucking Nazis are no longer something we should be concerned about.

[Comrade Grumpy]

6. Silly Warren, Nazis are okay because Putin is bad.

[malaise]

10. Thread win

[MNBrewer]

34. Putin isn't a fascist?

[Starry Messenger]

9. I wonder if the US was like this in the 1930's?

These are definitely Nazis to be concerned about. Some of the them are still alive from WW2. Ukraine is notorious for allowing veterans who fought with the Nazis have parades, and never convicted any Nazis of war crimes.

http://www.sott.net/article/274590-New-pogroms-coming-thanks-to-US-Thousands-march-to-honor-Nazi-collaborator-in-Kiev

This is dated 1/2014

"Stepan Bandera's Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists encouraged locals to 'destroy' Jews and Poles in the 1940s

<snip>

Some wore the uniform of a Ukrainian division of the German army during World War II. Others chanted "Ukraine above all!" and "Bandera, come and bring order!"

However, many of Bandera's followers sought to play down his collaboration with the Germans in the fight for Ukraine's independence as the leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, Ukraine's foremost nationalist organization in the first half of the 20th century.

<snip>

However, Bandera did collaborate with the Nazis and receive German funding for subversive acts in the USSR as German forces advanced across Poland and into the Soviet Union at the start of the war. "

<snip>



The article goes on to state that Bandera had a falling out with the Nazis, but then was back in their graces by the end of the war.

[steve2470]

19. German American Bund

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American_Bund

[Starry Messenger]

22. The Silver Shirts too

I was more wondering if there were people who weren't involved with groups, but just didn't see the harm in creeping fascism?

[socialist_n_TN]

7. But how could this be??? I've read over and over that this......

wasn't a fascist coup. Could there have been some misinformation bandied about?

[Starry Messenger]

13. Misinformation, and also I think there's a lot of history in the area people don't understand.

I'm trying to be charitable, there's been some eye-popping assertions here this week.

[cali]

11. This is not good news, and it's not a surprise

Ukraine is an outstanding example of a situation where there is no bright line, one side all good, the other pure evil.

DU has lots of people who view the world in that essentially fundamentalist way. And I include the people who see the former government side as the bright line good guys, too.

[Starry Messenger]

15. Agreed on all points.

It's a complicated place. I'm sure we all want the best for Ukraine and the people.

[LittleBlue]

14. Wow, scary stuff

Neo-Nazi in control of the military and police force? Feels like reading a paper from the 1930s.

[Starry Messenger]

16. Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.

[Starry Messenger]

17. kick

[Gravitycollapse]

20. I still haven't seen a lot of evidence that these fascists are anti-semitic.

At least, no more so than the general population (which isn't necessarily the greatest of comforts). If they are as fervently anti-semitic as much of the media wishes to believe, they certainly aren't very good at it in image or practice.

And I'm still confused as to why no one seems to care at all about the historical massacre of the Polish and Russians by these groups.

[Starry Messenger]

21. Here's a good place to start

http://bit.ly/1mLChkZ

[Gravitycollapse]

23. I'm going to give you a redo without the condescension.

As if I haven't already researched the history of anti-semitism in the Ukraine. I specifically mentioned that problem in my post.

[Starry Messenger]

24. No thanks. If what you've read hasn't convinced you, your bar is much higher than fruitful.

[Gravitycollapse]

25. I find it incredibly suspicious that no one appears to care at all about the Polish or Russians.

The entire dialogue revolves around these groups being "neo-nazi" despite them historically fighting against the Nazis in WWII. And it seems their history of mass murder and genocide tends to focus on the Polish and Russian population, not the Jewish.

I'm not saying these groups aren't terrible. Clearly, as extreme fascists with a penchant for murder, they're probably the last people who should be in charge. That doesn't however make the inaccurate portrayal by Western media any less concerning.

It seems to me that the media feels obligated to portray them as neo-nazis and extreme anti-Semites because that is the only thing that riles up Westerners. Russians and Polish? Not even a second glance.

[Starry Messenger]

26. I'm perfectly willing to be outraged by those other two things.

However, if you're not willing to discuss the third form of virulent hatred and bigotry they are notorious for, I just don't find this a productive discussion.

You can always post your own OP on subjects you'd like to introduce. GD has plenteous room for all comers.

[FarCenter]

28. The Ukrainians are pretty resentful of other ethnic groups

The history varies in different regions of Ukraine, but the Ukrainians were the peasantry of this region, and they were serfs until the Russian Emancipation Reform of 1861. After emancipation, they were still peasants and small villagers. In the West, both Poles and Ukrainians were the rural population.

In the West, the governing elite were Austrian Germans and some Poles and Hungarians. In the East, the governing elite were Russian.

The financial, business and industrial management class were Jews, Armenians, Germans, Poles and Russians, depending on the city, with a Ukrainian and sometimes Polish working class.

[Old and In the Way]

27. I don't pretend to know dick-all about the politics about Ukraine.

But, could nationalists be, you know, anti-Russian? Pro-Ukrainian without being Nazi's? Not t Just asking...not the 1936 Germany kind? Is world domination in the cards?

[Starry Messenger]

30. They are also virulently anti-Russian. (And anti-Polish)

"Svoboda is an ultra-right, anti-Semitic, Russophobic party with its base of support in the Western Ukraine."

Some of the people alive today in the Ukraine are WW2 vets who fought with the Germans. 1936 didn't go away entirely for everyone.

They are a hot mess who hate lots of people.

[Old and In the Way]

32. !/2 the country ID's as Russian, the other 1/2 ID's as Ukrainian...

So, who is right? Or am I wrong? Seriously, there's hardly any WW2 Nazi's alive in the Ukraine...but I'm sure there are lots of German style 2nd/3ed generation Nazi's there. So, who should we support...Putin or the Nazi's? Is it this clear? I don't know...I know dick-all.

[Starry Messenger]

33. I don't think all Ukrainians support the ultra-right.

I'm supporting Ukrainian progressive sectors who believe in democracy. This was a putsch, imo. Both Putin and Nazis suck, there's not really a good vs. evil thing going on.

[Old and In the Way]

35. I agree.

But, in the middle, there seems to be the problem. They had a democratically elected government. Now they lost it. So, what next? Nazi's or Putin-style Russian protectionism? The people of the Ukraine fucked up when they allowed their democratic system to fall. It is their problem to deal with the undemocratic factionalism that will now engulf them.

[JVS]

36. The side that respects the results of elections is right.

Eastern Ukraine has tolerated Western Ukrainian leaders in the course of the last 20 odd years. It's not right for Western Ukraine to dismiss election results just because they consider the Easterners to be Russian aliens. It's like the republicans here who dismiss Democratic election wins on the grounds that the voters aren't "real Americans" (read rural white people).

[Starry Messenger]

37. Spot on!

Excellent analogy. I'm stealing it for the next time I need to explain what is going on to people.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

29. This can't be true. I was personally assured by several posters in this forum

that there was no significant fascist movement among the totally nonviolent protest movement. The Ukraine will assuredly be the land of sunshine and happiness with Svoboda in charge of the military.

[Starry Messenger]

31. This reminds me about early DU fights about the Tea Party just being disgruntled plain folks.

Except this is that 1000x worse. Were there well meaning people in the crowds fighting corruption? I'm sure, but this got handed over to planned violence and ultra-right activity after about a month.

[socialist_n_TN]

38. I'm going to kick this with a comment on the "...crowds fighting corruption?"........

I think that a lot of the crowds out there, even in western Ukraine, WERE fighting corruption. And, Dog knows, there was plenty of corruption to go around. HOWEVER, I think that the fascists and proto-fascists took advantage of this justified anti-corruption sentiment to grab leadership positions in the demonstrations and push those crowds into a nationalistic and Russophobic direction. IOW, drive them TOWARDS the EU?IMF axis. And I have NO doubt that these "leaders" already have agreements (maybe just handshake agreements, but agreements nonetheless) with the EU and, by extension the IMF, to get loans FROM the IMF in exchange for the austerity/privatization agenda of this latest Shock Doctrine foray of the EU and the IMF. It's EXACTLY like we've seen for 40+ years and that Naomi Klein has described to a tee. A handful of people in Ukraine are planning on getting rich while sending millions from middle class status to poverty.

So the question becomes, did those crowds that showed up to protest the corruption of the previous regime support the austerian/privatization plan of the EU and the IMF? I'm pretty sure if they were polled, that EU/IMF agenda would NOT garner significant support from those crowds. To use a business term, they were victims of a "bait-and-switch".

[Starry Messenger]

39. It's baffling, I thought more would be aware of the consequences of Greek austerity.

Maybe some regional bias, and Ukrainians just think the Greeks handled things poorly? Hard to say.

Agreed on all points.