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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsISDS: "A Private Justice System For... Corporations". One the administration is pushing
And yes, it shocks me that the administration is pushing ISDS in both the TPP and TTIP. There are nations that have objected to its inclusion. Or rather there were nations that objected. Australia just knuckled under.
ISDS is rigged in favor of corporations. Period. The history of its use is disgusting and widely known.
corporate use of the ISDS has already led to tragic results and governmental changes that benefit only corporate profit while sacrificing the well being of people.
No, that's not hyperbole. It's fucking fact.
The U.S. is behind ISDS and this administration is pushing hard for it.
Since NAFTA the U.S. has insisted that all its trade agreements have ISDS and corresponding "investors rights" chapters.
In 2012, corporations won over 70% of the disputes they initiated- and they initiate all of them. There is no similar process for communities and nations. It's like having the Chamber of Commerce be the arbitrator in a dispute between business and environmentalists
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These companies (along with hundreds of others) are using the investor-state dispute rules embedded in trade treaties signed by the countries they are suing. The rules are enforced by panels which have none of the safeguards we expect in our own courts. The hearings are held in secret. The judges are corporate lawyers, many of whom work for companies of the kind whose cases they hear. Citizens and communities affected by their decisions have no legal standing. There is no right of appeal on the merits of the case. Yet they can overthrow the sovereignty of parliaments and the rulings of supreme courts.
You don't believe it? Here's what one of the judges on these tribunals says about his work. "When I wake up at night and think about arbitration, it never ceases to amaze me that sovereign states have agreed to investment arbitration at all ... Three private individuals are entrusted with the power to review, without any restriction or appeal procedure, all actions of the government, all decisions of the courts, and all laws and regulations emanating from parliament."
There are no corresponding rights for citizens. We can't use these tribunals to demand better protections from corporate greed. As the Democracy Centre says, this is "a privatised justice system for global corporations".
Even if these suits don't succeed, they can exert a powerful chilling effect on legislation. One Canadian government official, speaking about the rules introduced by the North American Free Trade Agreement, remarked: "I've seen the letters from the New York and DC law firms coming up to the Canadian government on virtually every new environmental regulation and proposition in the last five years. They involved dry-cleaning chemicals, pharmaceuticals, pesticides, patent law. Virtually all of the new initiatives were targeted and most of them never saw the light of day." Democracy, as a meaningful proposition, is impossible under these circumstances.
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http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/04/us-trade-deal-full-frontal-assault-on-democracy
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10023917984
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023518818
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023455457
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023504203
questionseverything
(9,645 posts)Citizens and communities affected by their decisions have no legal standing. There is no right of appeal on the merits of the case. Yet they can overthrow the sovereignty of parliaments and the rulings of supreme courts.
cali
(114,904 posts)is disgusting.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Centre_for_Settlement_of_Investment_Disputes
cali
(114,904 posts)poor argument even by your standards, pro.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)breathtaking.
cali
(114,904 posts)the the process for dispute settlement under FTAs since NAFTA is a good one? Please explain why.
the hypocrisy that stuns me is that of you partisans.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)jurisdiction?
It's a bit hypocritical, legally, to think that one's liberty should be subject to international law, but not one's money. Strange to me, really, that you would allow States to operate without an accountability mechanism that would recoup against bad governmental actors. A bit too authoritarian for me, really.
cali
(114,904 posts)the ISDS has virtually nothing to do with international law as generally understood. The ISDS is license for corporations to bypass. that's not an exaggeration:
there is nothing wrong with guarding against bad state actors. The ISDS goes far, far beyond that.
<snip>
Investor-state resolution has been a common component of U.S.-negotiated pacts with individual nations since the North American Free Trade Agreement in 1994. But such resolution is not currently permitted in disputes with the U.S. and EU, which are governed by the WTO. All trade deals feature some kind of international resolution for disputes, but the direct empowerment of corporations to unilaterally bring trade cases against sovereign countries is not part of WTO treaties. Under WTO rules, a company must persuade a sovereign nation that it has been wronged, leaving the decision to bring a trade case before the WTO in the hands of elected governments.
Traditionally, this proposed political empowerment for corporations has been defended as a way to protect companies from arbitrary governments or weakened court systems in developing countries. But the expansion of the practice to first-world relations exposes that rationale as disingenuous. Rule of law in the U.S. and EU is considered strong; the court systems are among the most sophisticated and expert in the world. Most cases brought against the United States under NAFTA have been dismissed or abandoned before an international court issued a ruling.
As this rightly points out, investor-state dispute resolution mechanisms were brought in for agreements with countries where the rule of law could not be depended upon. That makes no sense in the case of the US and EU, both of whose legal systems are highly developed (some might say overly so.) The Huffington Post article quotes Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen's Global Trade Watch, who explains what she thinks is really going on here:
"The dirty little secret about [the negotiation] is that it is not mainly about trade, but rather would target for elimination the strongest consumer, health, safety, privacy, environmental and other public interest policies on either side of the Atlantic," said Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen's Global Trade Watch. "The starkest evidence ... is the plan for it to include the infamous investor-state system that empowers individual corporations and investors to skirt domestic courts and laws and drag signatory governments to foreign tribunals."
<snip>
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130411/09574122678/investor-state-dispute-resolution-sleeping-monster-inside-free-trade-agreements-begins-to-stir.
<snip>
Much debate[4][5] has arisen concerning the impact of ISDS on the capacity of democratically-elected governments to implement reforms and legislative and policy programs related to public health, environmental protection and human rights.[6]
Opponents argue that investor state claims (or the threat of them) inhibit the capacity of domestic governments (the "policy space" to pass legislation addressing perfectly legitimate public concerns, such as health and environmental protection, labour rights or human rights. Proponents of ISDS argue that states and their governments are bound by public international law, which includes bilateral investment treaties and international investment agreements. Under this view, the "right to regulate" has not been "lost" by the states, but on the contrary has been consciously designed by states not to allow for breach of investor's protected rights. The accession to instruments of public international law guaranteeing such rights is an exercise of democratic constitutional power and binds the acceding state, even if its future government changes. In this perspective, they say, future governments who feel "undemocratically restricted" in their "policy space" had better remember that it is the act of a democratically elected former government that binds them.
Opponents also argue that arbitrations are carried out in secret by trade lawyers who earn income from the parties and are not accountable to the public or required to take into account broader constitutional and international law human rights norms.[7] Proponents of ISDS point out that confidentiality is a standard feature of all arbitration and one that enables a constructive, de-politicized and fact-oriented atmosphere of dispute resolution. Also, most ICSID awards, although confidential, are de facto published by consent of the parties. It is further pointed out that judges are not elected in most countries outside the US and UK, so that "public accountability of judges" may not be considered a standard of public international law. In any event, they say, the qualification of ISDS arbitrators matches or excels the qualification of most court judges.
Digital rights activist Joe Karaganis has described investor-state dispute settlement regulations as "corporate sovereignty".[8] According to journalist Glyn Moody, the term "represents the rise of the corporation as an equal of the nation state". Proponents of ISDS point out, that still, only states are sovereign and that no investor protection nor ISDS exists, which has not been created by states themselves by means of public international law. Also, while admitting that the position of corporations under ISDS resembles that of a state in state-state-arbitrations, they say, that this is justified, as corporations who invest in a Host State are uniquely vulnerable to Host State intervention, often for decades.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement#Debates
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)instead of substantive legal argument?
Kindly tell me what accountability mechanism you would prefer?
cali
(114,904 posts)but with examples of why it's bad.
And just because something has been around for a long time doesn't make it good.
furthermore, it sure as shit hasn't been around within FTAs for 50 years- for obvious reasons.
People have been horribly impacted by ISDS decisions /
Your love for corporations over people is so heartwarming.
From the AFLCIO:
You may have heard of investor-to-state dispute settlement, or ISDS. Most people familiar with the term never heard it before the NAFTA debates of the early 1990s. NAFTA was the first so-called free trade agreement in which the United States included this provision, which gives foreign investors in the U.S. (and U.S. investors operating in foreign countries) the opportunity to skip traditional methods of complaining about laws and regulations they dont like and sue nations directly in private arbitration tribunals made up of for-profit arbitrators rather than full-time judges. For example, if a foreign company operating in the U.S. wants to complain about a prohibition on the use of one of the companys toxic products, that producer can skip state and federal courts, skip legislative hearings, skip the democratic process entirely and instead sue the United States government in a private, international panel that is not even required to consider the health and well-being of U.S. citizens protected by the prohibition.
Rather than promoting these agreements, as the U.S. does, South Africa has recently decided to stop the automatic renewal of these agreements, letting many of them expire. Thats a good thing, and a model the U.S. should follow. As Nobel-prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz writes, these agreements significantly inhibit the ability of developing countries governments to protect their environment from mining and other companies; their citizens from the tobacco companies that knowingly purvey a product that causes death and disease; and their economies from the ruinous financial products that played such a large role in the 2008 global financial crisis.
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Advocates of such agreementssuch as the U.S. governmentclaim they are needed to protect property rights. But, Stiglitz points out, countries like South Africa already have strong constitutional guarantees of property rights. The U.S., too, already provides state-of-the-art property protections to all property owners foreign and domestic: Its called the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Is there any reasonat allto provide foreign firms with more property rights than Americas home-grown firms enjoy? In particular, is there a reason to include ISDS in the pending Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement?
http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Political-Action-Legislation/The-U.S.-Should-Follow-South-Africa-s-Lead-on-Investor-Rights-No-ISDS-in-the-TPP
You do know who Joseph Stiglitz is, right?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)You haven't provided one.
cali
(114,904 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)a name, right?
cali
(114,904 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)different classes of rights?
That's not argument...kindly name your accountability mechanism. It's got to have a name, right??????
cali
(114,904 posts)really? What do you disagree with, my corporate friend?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)"different classes of rights." One system for foreign investors, which is accountable to NO ONE, by the way, and one system for everybody else.
ISDS is the epitome of unaccountability, yet you argue for it with the strength of 1,000 corporate lawyers.
cali
(114,904 posts)I'm going to inundate you with facts and information to counter your absurd claims.
The system of international investment arbitration suffers from serious flaws. In South America, more than other regions, these failings are apparent from direct experience. Although South America does not attract the most foreign direct investment, the region has historically encountered the largest number investment-treaty arbitrations. This is in spite of the fact that we are ruled by democratically elected governments, with well-established institutions and laws.
Perhaps because so many countries in the region have faced multiple international investment arbitrations based on multi-million dollar claims for compensations, a number of alternatives to the current system of investment dispute resolution have been proposed by governments, multilateral institutions and academics. While these proposals are not only applicable to South America, the region has been particularly active in identifying solutions or alternatives. This brief article summarizes some of those alternatives.
Mandatory periods of amicable settlement and mediation before arbitration
This proposal, which has been discussed in academic and government forums, involves the development of contractual, treaty or other legal provisions whereby the investor and state, once a dispute has arisen, will be required to enter an initial period of amicable settlement and mediation before being allowed to move to arbitration.[1] This would require demonstrating that communication denoting the existence of a dispute has been exchanged between the investor and host state, which would form the basis for starting the amicable settlement phase of the dispute resolution process. If the period of amicable settlement is unsuccessful, the parties must then begin a formal process of mediation for a specified period of time. Only after this second phase has concluded can the parties submit the dispute for arbitration.
In an effort to try and avoid the present situation, where many arbitration tribunals allow claimants to avoid pre-arbitration requirements in investment treaties that demand amicable settlement or the use of local remedies, with the excuse that it would be futile or that it is a matter of admissibility and not of jurisdiction, the implementation of this proposal would expressly indicatein specific instrumentsthat the phases prior to arbitration must be properly concluded.
<snip>
http://www.iisd.org/itn/2014/01/19/proposed-changes-to-the-investment-dispute-resolution-system-a-south-american-perspective/
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)jsr
(7,712 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)that too many idiots want to claim isn't happening. It's just a conspiracy according to the morons.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)reflects exactly what they are.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...has he not read it, or is he, as some have suggested, nothing more than a Hall-of-Fame bullshit artist?
(I believe the latter is more likely to be accurate...)
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)Wall Street insiders who believe in the status quo of corporate power and trickle down. These are not "progressives" giving him advice. They are DLCers, "New Dems," and former Citibank employees, like Mike Froman.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)and that anyone posting here defends this system, is disgraceful.
some people sound like they'd be right at home on freeperville.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)And, tell us that they're supporting it for our own good. And/or it's "not as bad" as what the Republicans propose.