Boy Fatally Shoots Brother With Handgun He Thought Was A BB Gun

[onehandle]

A Cincinnati, Ohio boy fatally shot his 8-year-old brother in the chest on Saturday while playing with a loaded handgun he thought was a BB gun, police told the Associated Press.

Three brothers were visiting their uncle, where they found the loaded gun. One boy pulled the trigger, shooting Sammy Lorenzo, Cincinnati police Lt. Don Luck told the Cincinnati Enquirer.

He was taken to a hospital in Cincinnati for surgery, but died about two hours later.

Police said that they are still investigating the incident as a homicide. Luck did not believe charges would be brought against the children.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ohio-boy-accidental-shooting-bb-gun

Charge the uncle.

[chrisa]

1. "Charge the Uncle"

+1

Our sick gun culture needs to change.

[3catwoman3]

2. Hell, yes...

...charge the uncle. There is NO EXCUSE for this kind of stupidity and lack of responsibility.

In my discussions of safety with parent at the pediatric office where I work, I include a mention of access to guns when talking about childproofing, and advise parents that it is prudent to inquire about that at the homes of relatives and playmates.

[Orrex]

3. Horrible story. I wonder how old the surviving boy is.

A god awful story. Our younger son has a friend whose mother told us that they have guns in the home, but they're safe. Like under the mattress. We've been debating how to tell her that our son won't be going over to their house to play.

Most gun owners ARE not careless murderers, but are certainly complicit in Gun Culture.

[Arkansas Granny]

5. There is no reason to debate how to tell her, just tell her.

Your child's safety is more important than her feelings. If you explain your reasoning, it might make her think about how weapons are kept at her house and the risks her own children face.

[Orrex]

6. Yeah, that's pretty much how we see it.

The friend is welcome to come over to our place, and our son understands our concerns about letting him go over there.


Thanks for the input--it's always good to have another pair of eyes look at the situation.

[sarisataka]

8. Tell her

that a person who is a 20 year veteran, firearm instructor and is currently carrying a concealed weapon, "under the mattress" is not safe.

All guns I have except one are unloaded and locked- those are safe. The other is in my possession, concealed and secured in a level 2 retention holster- I am responsible for any result of that one firing. When I return home it will join the others and then will be safe...

[Orrex]

9. Well, I'm sure that the safety is on while it's under the mattress.

That's plenty secure, right?

What really bugs us is that she's not even forthright about where all the guns are kept. I can respect that she might not want to advertise where she keeps her firearms, but I get the sense that it's more of a "well, we keep them here and there around the place" kind of thing, rather than "I don't want to tell you where my gun safe is."

Also, although the mom is nice enough, the house apparently goes through a rotation of occupants, with various relatives, boyfriends & girlfriends occupying the site at different times. At a glance it's almost comically reminiscent of so many "accidental" child firearm deaths that we've heard about.

[sarisataka]

11. She has the attitude

that drives me up the wall

As you say, it is understandable to keep some information private, (I trust you. I have two pistols in a biometric safe under the bed. the others are locked in a concealed security cabinet that can only be located by careful searching. when I inherited some rather valuable old rifles and shotguns I upgraded my security- and I always wanted a secret storage area) but a person should be able to assure guests the guns are secured by some sort of locks.

The situation as you describe is a case of when, not if an accident will happen. I would not allow my children to go there either.

[Arkansas Granny]

4. By all means, charge the uncle.

As the person who left a loaded gun where it was accessible to the boy, the uncle is responsible for this death.

[SoCalMusicLover]

7. How Many "Accidents" Per Legitimate "Self Defense" Shooting?

For the gun lovers, what is the reason we Constantly hear about these "accidental" shootings that result in death, yet rarely hear about the person who truly is in mortal danger, and uses a gun to save his or his family's life?

You would think the nra would want to publicize these acts of True "self defense," to show the benefit of having a gun in the home.

I'm sure there will be intense sympathy shown towards the uncle, because everyone will say how horrible he feels, and how he has to live with this for the rest of his life. Key word there is LIVE, which the 8 year old boy will not get to do, and the brother will have to LIVE with for his life as well.

Fucking Pathetic. And I hope Oscar Pistorius burns for what he did, although I fear that he will also get away with claiming "self defense" or "accident." That is the way gun lovers justify their guns.

[Arkansas Granny]

10. I'm not sure how to find that type of info, but I was wondering the same thing.

I have seen reports of people defending themselves and their property by shooting intruders only to find that they have killed a neighbor or family member. I'd be interested in knowing how many times a gun has actually been used for self defense.

[sarisataka]

12. Depending on the source

it ranges from 100,000 to 2 million plus. There are issues of course with the politics of the person presenting the data, the methodology and the definition of 'use' as a gun can be used for self defense without firing it.

I have no guess or data as to how many guns are fired in legitimate self defense. My WAG is the actual self defense 'uses' is around half a million, give or take a quarter million.

[Arkansas Granny]

13. Do you know of any reliable sources for such info, or does WAG = wild ass guess?

[sarisataka]

14. You guessed it in one

Government sources such as FBI National crime victim survey run towards the low end. I give them the most credit as they are the most neutral. Kleck's survey came up with the 2 million number, but I agree there are some concerns that he had false positives.

I once saw a table of 18 different sources on self defense gun use; unfortunately I lost the link. They ran the gamut from high to low and came from all sides of the issue. Based on that, I came up with my guess of what seemed reasonable, but with a high margin of error.


EDIT- not having luck finding that chart. Here are some links- the first is Gun Owners of America- extreme end anti-GC (2.5 million DGUs), second Violence Policy Center-very pro-control (48,925), last wikipedia (no conclusion). Take them all with a bag of salt...

https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm
https://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

[Lizzie Poppet]

21. Hard to say.

It's probably possible to get accurate numbers for accidental shootings vs self-defense shootings, but everything I've ever read on the matter seems to indicate that most defensive gun usages don't involve shots being fired...and a whole bunch of those don't get reported. I don't for one moment buy that there are "millions" of these instances, as some have claimed, but I suspect they vastly outnumber accidental shootings (c. 15,000, with about 600 being fatal).

[csziggy]

15. While the uncle should be charged - the child should be taught

Even a BB gun can injure someone. I was taught to NEVER point anything that resembled a gun at another person unless I intended to use it on them.

[SoCalMusicLover]

16. You'll Shoot Your Eye Out Kid

[csziggy]

17. Yep - my Dad shot his brother with a BB gun when they were kids

Missed the brother's eye by an eyelash width. After that the only time Dad ever used a gun was during WWII. Although his father and other family members hunted, Dad never did. He never allowed us to have toy guns of any description and felt that guns were only for serious defense and best used only in war.

As an adult I bought a gun which has only been used to shoot rattlesnakes that moved in close to our house or outbuildings. Dad never approved of me having that gun, even though it is kept unloaded and locked in a safe except when we know there are snakes around.

[Lizzie Poppet]

22. Exactly.

As a little girl, I was taught that a BB gun is still a gun, and that the safe handling rules that were drummed into my head applied just as much to them as to gunpowder guns.

[Logical]

19. Uncle should spend some weekends in jail. Like 52 weekends. nt

[NickB79]

20. I'm really sick of how even BB guns are getting "tactical"

I mean, THESE are common BB guns these days:





I can understand how a kid could confuse a real gun with a fake one, given this trend.

Now that I have a 3-yr old, and my friends have kids of their own as well, I've just taken to keeping anything more powerful than a NERF gun in the gun safe. Pellet guns, the target bow and arrows, the hunting guns, etc, all get locked up when not in use.

[ileus]

23. Self defense firearm should be on your person

Or stored in a safe.


Especially if children are in the home.

[SoCalMusicLover]

24. Police: NO CHARGES WILL BE FILED

If you figured that nothing would come of this, you were right.

Accidental shooting. No charges to be filed.

On to the next one.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/east-price-hill/no-charges-filed-in-shooting-death-of-8-year-old-in-east-price-hill