Intercepted Phone Call Authenticated as Questions Remain over WHO REALLY Fired on Kiev Protestors

[KoKo]

Estonian Foreign Ministry confirms authenticity of leaked call on Kiev snipers
Published time: March 05, 2014 15:02

Estonian foreign ministry has confirmed the recording of his conversation with EU foreign policy chief is authentic. Urmas Paet said that snipers who shot at protesters and police in Kiev were hired by Maidan leaders.

Paet told RIA-Novosti news agency that he talked to Catherine Ashton last week right after retiring from Kiev, but refrained from further comments, saying that he has to “listen to the tape first.”

The Estonian Ministry of Foreign Affairs also issued a statement on its website, saying that the recording of the leaked telephone conversation between Paet and Ashton is “authentic.”

“We reject the claim that Paet was giving an assessment of the opposition’s involvement in the violence," the statement stressed, adding that the FM was only providing an overview of what he had heard during his Kiev visit.

The call took place after Estonia’s Foreign Minister Urmas Paet visited Kiev on February 25, following the peak of clashes between the pro-EU protesters and security forces in the Ukrainian capital


http://rt.com/news/estonia-confirm-leaked-tape-970/

----------------

British EU chief hears Ukraine shooting claim in bugged call

--BBC NEWS

http://www.channel4.com/news/ukraine-catherine-ashton-phone-shoot-maidan-bugged-leaked

In a leaked phone call, believed to be between EU foreign policy chief Cathy Ashton and Estonia's foreign minister, it is claimed Ukraine protesters were shot on the orders of their own leaders.

In the conversation the speakers discuss a suspicion that snipers who shot protesters in Kiev's Independence Square, at the height of the Maidan protests, had been hired by opposition leaders, not the Ukrainian government of ousted President Yanukovych.

It is reported that Ukraine's special services, friendly to ousted President Viktor Yanukovych, bugged the conversation between Baroness Ashton and a man believed to be Urmas Paet, the Estonian foreign minister. It is thought the conversation took place around the 26 February, shortly after Yanukovych fled the country.

There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers it was not Yanukovych, but it was somebody from the new coalition. Urmas Paet

In the recording, the male voice says he has been told of evidence suggesting that one group was responsible for shooting both riot police and protesters alike, and that there is a "stronger and stronger understanding" that one of the Maidan leaders organised the shootings.

It has previously been reported that government gunmen were responsible for the majority of 88 protester deaths in the uprising.

[The Magistrate]

1. Pure Hearsay, Ma'am

And not even solid account of where and from whom it was heard.

[KoKo]

5. Agree...and that's why chose subject line title... "Questions Remain"...

It's being reported in international media. And the video of the leaked conversation has gone viral and being reported on. We shall see where it goes.

[The Magistrate]

6. With All Due Respects, Ma'am

In my view what questions remain are on a rough par with questions regarding global warming and evolution. Repressive governments shoot people: as the Rude One says, "Motherfuckers fuck mothers, it's what they do."

[KoKo]

23. As we learned from our Invasion & Occupation of Iraq...

Not all is as it seems from first reports. We have learned other lessons as well about jumping to conclusion when an incident first occurs and with so many "actors" involved.

As I said, before. We shall see... No harm is done by the reporting of more information as it comes out. Shining the light is better than living in the dark.

[The Magistrate]

28. Yes And No, Ma'am

The quality of the observer matters.

It was obvious at the time to people with some knowledge of the region that invading Iraq was a mistake that would turn out badly, and obvious, too, to people who had been paying much attention to the question, that Hussein had no particular unconventional weapons capability. So there were a number of people who were not the least surprised b the general curse of events there.

[KoKo]

31. Well...this is a flag to me and others who remember how we got into Iraq..

The blatant involvement of our State Department Rep giving out treats pre-coup--considering her marital affiliation with those who were so influential in our invasion and occupation of Iraq. And with her chosen buddy "Yats" (according to her intercepted phone conversation) now installed I'd say there was some US influence there that would not go unnoticed by Mr. Putin, nor those of us who remember how we got into Iraq.

We shall see....

Victoria Nuland passing out "sweets" to the Ukranian Protestors.

[The Magistrate]

35. Oh, The Horror, Ma'am!

An Ambassador passed out cookies?

Be still my beating heart....

[KoKo]

37. lols...that was very good!

Usually they don't go out on the streets and make a fool of themselves...grinning as they "Pass the COOKIES!" (they used to do it much more underhanded with sophistication over caviar and cocktails at the embassy or the poker room in the back.)

She overstepped...or really it's so Blatant that she felt confident in acting like a PTA Parent Monitor handing out cookies to the Student Activists who wanted better food in the cafeteria...! She is so......CONFIDENT...and why wouldn't she be with that powerhouse of PNAC behind her! She thought No ONE would notice in this Internet Dominated Spying on the People Era!

[The Magistrate]

38. I Am Sorry, Ma'am, But This Has No Significance Whatever

It means nothing, less than nothing, it is not some revealing tell or obiter dicta giving a whole secret game away.

I do not mean to be harsh, but you could put the significance of that gesture in a flea's navel and still have room for three caraway seeds and Paul Ryan's heart.

[KoKo]

39. That was quite harsh...

but we shall see how this goes. I'm glad that there is more media that one can access than when we Invaded and Occupied Iraq.

And, Nuland is important...but in the scheme of things its much more complicated overall what is going on. We can only deal with the parts of the narrative that we feel is important.

We agree to disagree. As you know, I've always appreciated your comments here on DU because I think you make wise comments in general and in many cases point out weak points in arguments.

Regards.

[The Magistrate]

49. I Do Appreciate Your Response, Ma'am

It was not my intention to offend, and certainly not to hurt.

Always a pleasure to encounter you about the place.

[AnalystInParadise]

41. I have said nothing but negative things about Putin

since this started, but surely you aren't trying to claim the new Ukrainian govt. is "the good guys", are you? I think we have a lot more to learn and it is most likely that the simplest explanation is the correct one. Putin through Yanukovych probably is behind all of this, but at the same time, we can't just accept what the new Ukrainian govt. says happened either. Objectivity should hopefully rule the day.

[The Magistrate]

48. You Are Looking For 'Good Guys', Sir?

Awfully thin on the ground, those.

In this world, a man has to choose between taupe and charcoal grey, and take a stand....

[AnalystInParadise]

50. No not looking for good guys

Just not sure the far right nationalists of Svoboda and some of the other Ukrainian parties are really an improvement over Putin. I said I am unsure, not defending Putin or Russia's recent movements.

I would prefer to say a pox on both their houses and do nothing for or to either side.

[The Magistrate]

51. Doing Nothing Is Often Sound Policy, Sir

Certainly the sages of the Tao would agree....

I am largely untroubled by who at present seems in charge at Kiev: the Ukraine deserves independence from Russia, given the ghastly history there under the Soviets well within living memory, and when matters come to violence, hard men tend to rise. They do not have much staying power, though, particularly the bad hats among them, unless the society around them has been badly injured, which does not seem the case here.

Russia probably is going to emerge from this with the Crimea; it is very important to them militarily. They have no right to it but might, mind, but might they have.

What is important is to ward off Russian incursions in Ukraine proper, and slicing off a portion of its eastern territory.

There is no military option against Russia in the region, and not much room for economic measures, unless matters get much more intense than they look like getting at present.

[soundsgreat]

27. Dr. Olga Bogomolets who treated wounded people on the Maidan nt

i

[jsr]

2. Recommend

[woo me with science]

3. K&R

[TwilightGardener]

4. The neo-nazi angle didn't work, the "instability" angle didn't work, the

"ethnic Russians being attacked" angle didn't work, all that's left now is to try to render the new government illegitimate and convince Ukraine and Russia that the Weird Al regime shouldn't have been blamed. Edit to add: the police forces suspected of the shootings fled to Crimea and were given Russian passports or visas--was that to protect them from Ukrainian reprisals?

[gordianot]

7. Always a really good way to tone down a protest fire into a crowd ask Crispus Atticus

Rule one of dispersing and not outraging a crowd, just shoot and kill. As I seem to remember a crowd was punching a suspected sniper?

[TwilightGardener]

9. Yes--why would they seek to end their own protests? Putin and Medvedev

called Yanukovich and told him to stop being "a doormat" shortly before the shootings.

[gordianot]

12. As to Putin if in response to his call the only people who were impressed was American Conservatives

They love a chance for a cold war and build up and are so so grateful. Sarah Palin has at last found her manly man.

[another_liberal]

18. The people who started the shooting may not have wanted to calm things down.

The claim of Yanukovich's supporters that right wing protesters began the shooting (though generally ignored in the West) has been out there since shortly after the firing in Maidan Square began on Thursday night, the night before Yanukovich withdrew police from the streets and was subsequently forced to flee Kiev. It is said that the first shots fired at police and protesters came from one of the protester occupied buildings on the Square. The shooters were thought to be from among the more violent and radical groups among the protesters. According to those sources only after several policemen were killed, or were taken to hospitals with gunshot wounds, were police snipers deployed to try and take out the gunmen.

It is suspected that members of such groups as Right Sector and Svoboda were angry about the truce agreement reached earlier Thursday and they reasoned shooting at some of their fellow protesters and members of the riot police would unleash a new wave of violence from both sides. If that was the case, they did succeed in their plan.

[gordianot]

20. As follow who benefits local right wing groups, big neighbors or someone looking for a new cold war?

There seems to be a long history of this in the region. This mess seems to have made the American neo-cons very happy. Not wanting to sound a conspiracy at the least it gives some advantage to fill a vacuum in the resulting chaos or there are unintended consequences.

[Catherina]

8. Estonian Ministry of Foreign Affairs Press Release: The recording leaked online is authentic

Estonian Ministry of Foreign Affairs Press Release:

On the Telephone Conversation between Foreign Minister Paet and EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs Catherine Ashton
05.03.2014

The recording of a telephone conversation between Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and High Representative Catherine Ashton that has been leaked online is authentic.

The conversation between Paet and Ashton took place on 26 February after the Estonian Foreign Minister’s return from his visit to Ukraine. His visit took place last week, soon after the end of street violence in Kiev.

Foreign Minister Paet was giving an overview of what he had heard the previous day in Kiev and expressed concern over the situation on the ground. We reject the claim that Paet was giving an assessment of the opposition’s involvement in the violence.

`It is extremely regrettable that phone calls are being intercepted,’ said Paet. ’The fact that this phone call has been leaked is not a coincidence,’ added Paet.

http://vm.ee/?q=node/19353

[Pretzel_Warrior]

13. Well look who's back?

[The Magistrate]

14. Well, there Is This, Sir

"Foreign Minister Paet was giving an overview of what he had heard the previous day in Kiev and expressed concern over the situation on the ground. We reject the claim that Paet was giving an assessment of the opposition’s involvement in the violence. "

[TwilightGardener]

15. Set-up, then.

[soundsgreat]

29. this doesn't make the phone call go away

Of course he downplays this now embarassing phone call. What do you expect?

[The Magistrate]

30. It Describes The Content Of The Call, Sir

The man reported what he had been told by various people, and someone had claimed it was protesters doing the shooting. He did not state that as a fact, and it is not considered a fact by his government, or, for that matter, by much of anyone not actively engaged to promote the current line of Mr. Putin's government, aside from a handful of people who find that line sits readily with their own predispositions.

[soundsgreat]

33. you certainly have never visited the comment section of a German news outlet

The Germans feel duped, and not all of them "promote the current line of Mr. Putin's government".

The German government will not be able to ignore that. Just wait.

[The Magistrate]

34. These Differ From Yahoo Comments How, Sir?

You do not consider what you have presented to be any sort of a telling forensic point, do you?

[joeybee12]

10. A load of bullshit promoted by Putin and his ilk...

Apparently all they did was discuss, offered no evidence, but the simple-minded who have hard-ons for putin will run with this as proof they're the good guys...I hate that absolute garbage like this even gets reported...self-serving crap.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

11. But there are no Putin apologists on DU.

No sirreee!

[tkmorris]

53. To be fair...

While I consider the version of events suggested in the OP to be utter hogwash, I do not believe that Koko is acting as a Putin apologist. Saying that the leaders of the protest in Kiev may have employed Machiavellian tactics does not make Putin a de facto White Hat.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

54. since Putin's propaganda machine is the genesis of all the distrust being thrown around RE: Ukraine

I would say willingly posting such garbage makes one a defacto Putin apologist. No other nation is as committed to sliming the protest movement and new government as much as Russia, so it kind of makes sense.

If someone was on DU posting excuses and pretexts from the Bush junta back in 2003 regarding "suspicious groups", we would definitely have referred to them as Bush mouthpieces or apologists.

[tkmorris]

55. It is entirely possible...

For a person to believe that the article above is NOT in fact the product of the Putin propaganda machine. You believe it to be, quite obviously, and I suspect it likely is as well. The matter has not been proven however.

I propose to you a scenario in which Koko knows that Putin has nefarious intent, just as you or I do, and yet ALSO believes that there were those within the protest on the Maidan capable of employing less than honorable methods to achieve their goals much as Putin would. Is that really so implausible to you that you have to start calling her names?

[Benton D Struckcheon]

16. The grasping for any straw is getting pathetic.

[another_liberal]

17. This is what sources among Yanukovich's supporters have said all along.

The claim (though generally ignored in the West) has been out there since shortly after the firing in Maidan Square began on Thursday night, the night before Yanukovich withdrew police from the streets and was subsequently forced to flee Kiev. It is said that the first shots fired at police and protesters came from one of the protester occupied buildings on the Square. The shooters were thought to be from among the more violent and radical groups among the protesters. According to those sources only after several policemen were killed, or were taken to hospitals with gunshot wounds, were police snipers deployed to try and take out the gunmen.

It is suspected that members of such groups as Right Sector and Svoboda were angry about the truce agreement reached earlier Thursday and they reasoned shooting at some of their fellow protesters and members of the riot police would unleash a new wave of violence from both sides. If that was the case, they did succeed in their plan.

[jakeXT]

19. It reminded me of Venezuela at the time

In 2002, the CIA attempted to overthrow Hugo Chavez, president of Venezuela, in a military coup. On the 11th of April 2002, an opposition March towards the presidential palace was organized by the US backed Venezuelan opposition. Snipers hidden in buildings near the palace opened fire on protestors killing 18. The Venezuelan and international media claimed that Chavez was “ killing his own people” thereby justifying the military coup presented as a humanitarian intervention.  It was subsequently proved that the coup had been organized by the CIA but the identity of the snipers was never established.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/unknown-snipers-and-western-backed-regime-change/27904

[KoKo]

24. Victoria Nuland handing out cookies to protestors before the Coup and

her intercepted phone call approving of "Yats" (now installed) along with her expletive to the EU to "F**k Off" and revelation of the 5 Billion in aid we had already given Ukraine was enough to raise questions.

Whether this next phone call intercept leads to more inquiry remains to be seen. But, there are enough concerns about Victoria Nuland at our State Department married into to the Kagan (NeoCon/Project for the New American Century) family for some of us to have questions. Considering how we got into Iraq and "other places" based on often very questionable information. This is our tax payer money, our troops and our government involved. We have a right to ask questions as citizens of our Democracy/Republic.

[jakeXT]

25. Kucinich raised the tax payer money issue with O'Reilly

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/1017179264

[KoKo]

26. Thanks! I'll check out. Even if I have to go to FAUX to do it.

Glad to see this is being discussed.

[MNBrewer]

36. Cookies? REALLY??

OMG! Pastries of Mass Destruction! Are the Girl Scouts a terrorist organization now?

[KoKo]

52. "Patries of Mass Destruction"...

Truly!

but...given her gleeful smile...she knew more than we did at that point.

"Yats" was her guy and she got what she wanted. Whether it was the "pastries" or what was "in the cards" for our Foreign Policy.

I'll give her that. She's PNAC Representative...doing her duty. Who could pass up that winning smile as she doles out the sweets.

[SunSeeker]

21. Why are you peddling Putin (RT) propaganda?

That story reminds me of the assertions that the rebels in Syria gassed themselves.

You do realize you can be both against US military involvement in Ukraine AND be against Putin's aggression, right?

[KoKo]

22. The article is about verifying whether a phone call occurred, or not...

And, you obviously didn't read the post..for article from BBC as to what this is all about. before you popped off about RT Propaganda. 's

[SunSeeker]

32. No, I read it. That is why I "popped off," as you so rudely put it.

It is pretty obvious what "this is all about."

[KoKo]

42. So..what is your opinion about what "this is all about" so that I understand

where you are coming from.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

40. RT has been called out on lies and fabrication so many times now that it should be obvious

I am sorry you still consider them a reliable news source.

[RobertEarl]

43. Snipers not caught?

Where were the police?

You mean to tell us that snipers were not arrested by the police? That they sniped away and nobody tried to arrest the snipers? That everyone just sat back as they sniped?

Saw pics from the sidelines showing military dressed snipers set up, and reporters claimed to have seen them firing into the crowds.

That is the evidence from the scene. Your op is just talk.

[AnalystInParadise]

44. Do you know

how easy it is to get camoflauged clothing and weapons in Eastern Europe? I am still leaning towards the Yanukovych govt. did it, but I have to be honest this story from the Estonians has given me a doubt. The Estonians have no reason to make Putin look innocent at all.

[RobertEarl]

45. It wasn't camo

It was the same uniform as the police attacking the peaceful people on the streets.

The question is if they were citizen snipers, why were they allowed to be left alone, in the open, firing away. The only logical conclusion is that they were police.

Now there were other pics of citizens on the street with guns. Maybe that's what prompted this 'call'. That it was citizens sniping back at the police, which is not the same, is it? Of course not.

[AnalystInParadise]

46. You said military dressed

sorry my mistake.

But again, why is the only logical conclusion they have to be police forces loyal to Yanukovych......That doesn't make sense. Just for the record I am a believer of the official story, but it has just sprung a leak for me.

[RobertEarl]

47. No prob

Good question.

I guess if you wanted to rile up the citizens, shooting into them would do it. Well, it did, didn't it?

But the fact is that the police were also seen and photographed wading into the crowds with their batons swinging. That really got the citizens upset.

Anyway, what is done is done. The government head has been removed and the police withdrew from the Maidan. That war is over.

[go west young man]

56. This video give strong credence to the protesters as snipers theory.

Graphic warning.

The video shows bullets landing in slow motion and points out trajectories while pointing out the snipers appear to have been in the Hotel Ukraine behind the protesters. Watch for yourself and see bullets clearly hitting from the rear and marking trees on one side, the side facing away from the police positions. All of Russia has watched this video on RT in the last few days. In the US there is not a peep.