So, DST begins on Sunday. I absolutely loathe, despise, & intensely dislike this stupid business of

[scarletwoman]

Last edited Wed Mar 5, 2014, 11:54 PM - Edit history (1)

changing our clocks twice a year! Just pick ONE setting for our clocks and stick with it! Quit messing with our internal circadian rhythms!

Go ahead, arbitrarily declare that noon is not when the sun is at its zenith, but is whenever someone decides it is at whatever declination - and then just LEAVE it there! I'm sick of being jacked around by this ridiculous and outdated notion that "time" needs to change position in a fucking 24-hour world!

Enough, already!!!!one!!eleven!!!

[Skink]

1. I vote to stay on DST year round

[LiberalEsto]

2. I'd like that, I think nt

[proudretiredvet]

6. Yes yes yes yes

[scarletwoman]

9. Fine by me. All I want is to stick to one setting for our clocks.

I live at 46 degrees (north) latitude, so I get a big swing in the number of hours of daylight between the summer solstice and the winter solstice. In the weeks of deepest of winter, it's dark when I get up for work in the morning, and dark when I drive home after work. So it makes little difference to me if the dark lasts longer in the morning or in the afternoon.

Conversely, in high summer, it's light when I leave for work in the morning, and light when I go home. I still have to go to bed by a certain time in order to get a decent night's sleep, whether it's still light out or not (I get up at 5:30 a.m.). So having an extra hour of light at night doesn't make any difference to me.

All I want is for there to be one time setting throughout the year, and an end to this nonsense of changing our clocks twice a year.

[Jenoch]

18. I live at 45° and we have a cabin at 47° and I like DST.

It sounds like you are using the sun as your guide anyway so I don't really know why you care one way or the other. Parts of Indiana and all of Hawaii, Arizona, and the overseas U.S. territories stay on standard time, in case you would like to move.

I certainly would not like to stay on DST year-round. They did that once when I was a kid an sunrise in December was about 8:45am, much too late for me.

[scarletwoman]

29. It's the changing back and forth that I dislike.

In December at my latitude, the sun isn't going be up when I get up in the morning, no matter whether my clock is on Standard Time or Daylight Saving Time.

[Jenoch]

36. The change doesn't bother me much.

I remember one year, back in my single days, I forgot about the switch and did not figure out I was an hour behind until about 3pm (and it was actually 4pm).

[laundry_queen]

28. I live fairly far north and same thing here

It doesn't make a difference one way or another. Just pick a friggen time already! I'm tired of changing clocks twice a year for no really valid reason.

[Cleita]

31. One or the other, but do it. One time all year.

[abelenkpe]

45. Agree. Nt

[Hippo_Tron]

52. It's not fair to kids who'd have to walk to school in the dark

[pnwmom]

69. Our elementary schools start at 9. It's not dark at 8. n/t

[Blue_Adept]

94. That's late.

Our starts at 7am for 8th grade and 7:30 for 5-8. A lot of kids are out on the bus stop at 6:30 or earlier.

[pnwmom]

115. Couldn't they start later?

[Blue_Adept]

118. Not really.

You start running into problems with afterschool activities such as sports and other commitments. It's not a single piece kind of puzzle but a whole lot of pieces that doesn't shift easily.

[pnwmom]

67. Me, too. I liked it when we had that. n/t

[Adrahil]

92. Only if Indiana gets to move to the Central time zone.

It stays light later, but I wake up most mornings in the dark. I HATE that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

168. yup

[LiberalElite]

3. I'm with you -

I HATE losing that hour. It's the same 24 hours no matter what. Arizona manages to do fine without it. Many countries do too.

[Travis_0004]

14. What works in Arizona doesn't necessarly work in all states

Arizona is hot. They want the sun to set early, so it can cool off, and people can be active at night.

In other states (Ohio, where I live), I love daylight savings time. I would be fine with DST year round, not the elimination of DST.

We have longer summer days than Arizona, and shorter winter days, so DST helps to manage the difference in a length of day.

[davidpdx]

174. I'm in South Korea and we don't have DST

Having grown up in the US I have to say I miss it. The other twist is that I am attending graduate school in Arizona, one of the few places in the US without DST (the school's time is use for any deadlines we have).

[Deep13]

4. agreed.

If people want to get up later during the summer, let um.

[muriel_volestrangler]

112. It's to get things done *earlier* in the summer, not later (nt)

[Deep13]

130. right. sorry, it was late. nt

[oldhippie]

5. It works for me ......

I have bigger issues in my life than having to change a clock twice a year. It's not a big problem, and I like the extra useable daylight.

[scarletwoman]

15. Well, obviously, it's not a "BIG" problem - but the older I get, the more it annoys me.

I don't bounce back from having my sleep cycle jacked around as well as I did when I was younger. I don't know how old you are, oldhippie, but I'm 64 and I'm fed up with this nonsense.

If you want your "usable daylight" then lets just keep our clocks at daylight time all year 'round and not change them back. All I want is an end to switching back and forth - just pick a time and stick with it is all I ask.

[oldhippie]

33. I'm old, too. Older than you .....

.... by a year.

"Jacking" my time around by an hour twice a year doesn't bother me even one little bit. I know it does bother some people, but not me. I don't really care.

All I want is an end to switching back and forth - just pick a time and stick with it is all I ask.

Almost sounds like something a conservative would say, rather than a progressive. Don't like change, do we?

[jollyreaper2112]

37. no

I'm not a fan of pointless idiocy. Those who are tend to be conservative but there are some liberals with similarly flawed thinking.

It's a stupid fucking idea and it's a damned shame we can never be rid of it. We must suffer for our limitations.

[oldhippie]

48. Why can we never be rid of it?

Does it have such a powerful constituency? Why doesn't Congree just change it, using the Commerce Clause for authority?

[scarletwoman]

59. I'm big on change, which is why I'd like to see this outdated notion done away with.

I'm also big on questioning authority. And I have yet to see an argument in favor of this idiotic clock-changing nonsense that actually holds water when closely examined.

[Yo_Mama]

103. I transition slowly to it

Once I turned 50, it began to bother me too. So now I actually move over slowly starting a couple of weeks before the actual time change. This is easier for the spring when we set the clocks forward, but I find it makes a big difference either way in my comfort levels.

For the average US school kid, having DST all year round will not work well, and DST in the summer is nice.

[joeglow3]

109. I like because I am young and have kids

I like it when it is light out later (especially in the summer) and they can play outside longer (something that is all too foreign to kids these days). However, I like daylight savings so that they are not walking to school in the dark.

[NaturalHigh]

7. You have my vote on this.

[RebelOne]

47. Ditto. I hate the time changes.

I don't know who thought of DST, but they should be drawn and quartered and thrown to the wolves.

[RC]

106. Benjamen Franklin thought of it to save expensive candles.

And he was not even serious about it. We have been suffering ever since.
Most of the world does not utilize this asinine twice yearly clock changing.

Ben Franklin's Daylight Saving Time Proposal Was Written as a Joke
Today I found out Ben Franklin’s proposal of something like daylight saving time was written as a joke.

In a comedic letter he wrote, An Economical Project (published in 1784), ”to the authors of the journal of Paris”, Franklin mentions something like daylight saving time. Although, instead of changing clocks, he suggested ringing church bells and firing cannons, among other things, as the sun rises to maximize the amount of time people would be awake during times when the sun is providing free light. The letter was meant to be a satire, rather than actually suggesting these changes be made.

Here’s an excerpt of the letter:
http://gizmodo.com/ben-franklins-daylight-saving-time-proposal-was-writte-1456363759

[Xyzse]

121. Yep! It is why I have a huge unwavering loathing of Benjamin Franklin

Same with GWB, since that damn thing got extended during his Presidency.

[Jamastiene]

129. Twice, just to make sure they get the point. n/t

[LumosMaxima]

8. Same here. nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. If only humans could...

...develop enough wisdom to know the difference between a change that improves something and a change that just jerks people around. Pick a time a stick with it. As far as I'm concerned, the whole world can switch to GMT and if high noon is at 5PM, I'm fine with that.

[scarletwoman]

17. "...a change that just jerks people around." That's the thing - I'm tired of being jerked around.

I agree, pick a time and stick with it. Just set it and leave it.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

78. +1 ^^^

[reformist2]

11. I just wish we could wait until the temperature broke 20 degrees.

I always used to associate the switch to DST with the coming of spring. I really can't do that anymore when it's 10 degrees out.

[Nye Bevan]

12. One of my MAJOR pet hates too (along with restroom attendants).

It takes my body about a week to adjust to the change in the clocks. And I have heard that there are always more auto accidents the day after the clocks change, probably because people are attempting to adjust the clocks in their cars while they drive.

I agree with those saying we should keep DST all year round. If it's too dark for morning school buses in the winter, simply start school an hour later that time of year.

[thesquanderer]

89. re: "simply start school an hour later that time of year."

That could also mess up the lives of the rest of the household. i.e., if the parents work and their jobs can't likewise be adjusted to start an hour later. Of course, if you started everything an hour later, you might as well start everything the same time as before and just move the clock an hour, for the same result.

[cyberswede]

13. I'm permanently 1 hour off

While on a 2 week school trip to Germany, we had Daylight Saving Time. Then, we had DST in the US a week after we got back.

So, that year, I lost 2 hours - once in Germany, then another in the US, but I only gained back 1 hour in the fall when DST ended.

No wonder I'm always tired when my alarm goes off.

[Jenoch]

21. Me too.

When I was in high school I was a weekend all night radio announcer. When everybody else gained an hour, I worked an extra hour. In the spring when I would have worked an hour less, I had the weekend off for a family wedding so I lost another hour. I've been two hours off since I was 18 years old.

[Travis_0004]

16. Here is why we have DST:

On Dec. 21th, in Cleveland Ohio:

The sun will rise at 7:50am. It will set at 5pm.

On June 21st.
The sun will rise at 5:53am-It will set at 9:04pm.

If we didn't have DST, it would rise at 4:43 (and wake my ass up), and set at 8:04.

By shifting the clock forward an hour, the sun is out until 9pm. People who are home don't need to use as much light. It saves electricity. It allows the kids to play a bit more. If the sun rised at 4:43, most people would still be asleep, so what is the point?

I would be fine with it year round, but the arguement is that there should be some light for school kids in the morning.

What is your solution to deal with the fact that a summer day is 6 hours longer than a winter day?

[scarletwoman]

39. "What is your solution to deal with the fact that a summer day is 6 hours longer than a winter day?"

Um, live with it? It's the natural world, after all.

I used to live in Alaska. In the deep of winter the sun would rise at about 10am and set at about 3pm. We lived with it. Further north, the sun sets sometime in October/November, and doesn't rise again until about 3 months later. People live with it.

Modern life tries to do everything it can to remove us from awareness of the natural cycles of life on earth. But there's really no escape.

The earth revolves on its axis, and its axis is tilted. As the earth revolves around the sun, some parts face the sun for more hours per day than other parts. If you live near the equator there's little difference, but the further north or south of the equator you are, the more variation you get. What's wrong with just living with it the way it is where you are?

[Travis_0004]

41. Because we as a nation have decided its a good idea

It cuts down on electricity costs, it reduces traffic crashes, since there is more visibility when cars on on the road. It lets children play more, which might help with childhood obesity.

What is the problem with changing a clock? Most of mine even set themselves automatically.

[scarletwoman]

57. "It cuts down on electricity costs" - No, it doesn't. When I get up at 5:30 am every day, I have to

turn my lights on, no matter what. And what business doesn't run the same amount of artificial light in its offices regardless of how much the sun is shining outside? Exactly where would this reduction of electricity costs come from?

Sorry, but I think the "cuts down on electricity" argument is total nonsense. And as someone pointed out elsewhere in this thread, traffic accidents actually increase when the switch is made.

When the clocks get moved one hour ahead, it will be dark again in the morning when I commute to work. This means there is more chance of having a deer/car collision for at least 2 or 3 more weeks. This, after a long winter of near misses with suicidal deer who tend to move around during the twilight hours of early morning.

My objection has nothing to do with the inconvenience of changing clocks. It's the inconvenience of changing my internal clock, which messes me up for 2 weeks or more.

[thesquanderer]

88. It does cut down on electricity.

It may not for you personally, but it does overall.

[scarletwoman]

90. How does it cut down on electricity? The number of hours of daylight remain the same, no matter

what our clocks are set at. When the northern hemisphere is tilted toward the sun, days are longer - THAT cuts down on electricity, not changing clocks.

[thesquanderer]

97. The reason it cuts down on electricity:

Because it stays light for an hour longer, people don't turn on their indoor lights until an hour later, and lighting is one of the biggest uses of electricity in the country.

The flip side of that is that we are "losing" that hour of extra light from the early morning hours--but that is exactly the point of changing the clock, to take the "extra" daylight we are getting that time of year and "shifting" it so it more of it occurs in the early evening, instead of in the early morning when most people are asleep. Having all that extra daylight occur before 6 am doesn't benefit most people (and would not save electricity since people don't have their lights on then anyway), so we're taking some of that daylight and "moving" it to a more useful time, by shifting the clocks an hour.

As has been pointed out, the reason we don't do that all year is that, if we stuck to that light shifting scheme in the winter, school children would often have to walk to school in the dark. There's not enough "daylight" to spare during those months to be able to do the shift.

[RC]

125. Does Daylight Saving Time Save Energy? Evidence from a Natural Experiment in Indiana

Matthew J. Kotchen, Laura E. Grant

NBER Working Paper No. 14429
Issued in October 2008
NBER Program(s): EEE PE

The history of Daylight Saving Time (DST) has been long and controversial. Throughout its implementation during World Wars I and II, the oil embargo of the 1970s, consistent practice today, and recent extensions, the primary rationale for DST has always been to promote energy conservation. Nevertheless, there is surprisingly little evidence that DST actually saves energy. This paper takes advantage of a natural experiment in the state of Indiana to provide the first empirical estimates of DST effects on electricity consumption in the United States since the mid-1970s. Focusing on residential electricity demand, we conduct the first-ever study that uses micro-data on households to estimate an overall DST effect. The dataset consists of more than 7 million observations on monthly billing data for the vast majority of households in southern Indiana for three years. Our main finding is that -- contrary to the policy's intent -- DST increases residential electricity demand. Estimates of the overall increase are approximately 1 percent, but we find that the effect is not constant throughout the DST period. DST causes the greatest increase in electricity consumption in the fall, when estimates range between 2 and 4 percent. These findings are consistent with simulation results that point to a tradeoff between reducing demand for lighting and increasing demand for heating and cooling. We estimate a cost of increased electricity bills to Indiana households of $9 million per year. We also estimate social costs of increased pollution emissions that range from $1.7 to $5.5 million per year. Finally, we argue that the effect is likely to be even stronger in other regions of the United States.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w14429

So no, it does not save energy, but actually increases its use over all.

[thesquanderer]

141. Interesting analysis!

The paper basically says, yes, the extra "sun hours" each day do result in using less electricity for lighting, but those same extra "sun hours" also result in using more electricity for other things--most notably air conditioning. And a lot more homes have air conditioners today than was the case 100 years ago. So it may have been a good idea for saving energy at the time, but not so much now!

[greatlaurel]

147. Great post!

Thanks for the link.

[RC]

165. You're welcome.

Glad to be of service.

[Jamastiene]

131. It stays light for the amount of time it is going to for that time of year.

People are going to turn their indoor lights on when it gets dark. The clock doesn't decide that. The actual amount of daylight is based on the time of year and which hemisphere you are in and the whole shebang is based on how the Earth orbits the sun and how it is tilted on its axis. The clock doesn't have jack shit to do with how much daylight there is. Trust me. Human beings will not melt a la reverse vampirism, if darkness falls on us.

[thesquanderer]

140. I think you missed the point

re: "People are going to turn their indoor lights on when it gets dark. The clock doesn't decide that. "

The whole point of DST is that the clock does determine what time its is when it gets dark, and therefore yes, it determines what time people will turn on their indoor lights.

Of course you are correct that the clock doesn't determine how much daylight there is, but the clock DOES determine where that daylight falls within the schedule of hours that humans have invented.

Yes, in an absolute sense, it is going to get dark when it is going to get dark. But if we call that time 8 pm instead of 7 pm (by shifting the clock ahead an hour), and lights get shut off at 11 pm regardless, then the lights will only be on for 3 hours instead of 4. If that hour is offset by there being an extra hour of dark occurring before we wake, that doesn't matter, because we're not going to turn the lights back on while we're sleeping.

[FloridaJudy]

120. Maybe it cuts down on electricity use up North

But I suspect that here in the Southern states, where most people run the AC during all their waking hours, it increases it. Going to bed when it's still light out means you're going to swelter miserably unless you do.

But then I'm a night owl, who prefers to do stuff when I'm not dissolving in a pool of sweat.

As far as I'm concerned, the only good thing about DST was the extra hour of sleep I got every fall.

Now I'm retired, and can keep whatever hours I like, but I used to hate DST. The excuse for it they gave when I was a child was "So the farmers could have more time to do their chores". Even back then, I thought "WTF? They're farmers! They can start work whenever they want. They don't have to punch a time clock."

As an amusing side note, I know a farmer IRL who's a bit of a night owl. Cows don't have to be milked at 6 a.m. Do the final milking of the day several hours later, and they can wait until 9, like civilized critters.

[pokerfan]

167. One problem with living this far north (48°)

is that with DST it doesn't get dark until 11 in the summer which makes it hard to go to sleep. Also makes it hard to cool the house down because many houses don't bother with AC.

As far as lighting goes, that's becoming less of an issue over time with more efficient alternatives coming on line (CFL and LED).

Also, as an amateur astronomer, it would be nice not to have to stay up till midnight to get some dark skies.

[Jamastiene]

134. Excellent answer!

It infuriates me. Why do so many people think darkness falling on their skin will melt them or burn them or something? For fuck's sake, the world doesn't stop turning just because it gets dark outside. It all keeps right on going while humans with some kind of reverse vampire mentality sleep. Trust me. Night time will not kill them, if they simply acknowledge it exists and do something while it is dark. Human beings can be awake when it is dark and the world will not spin off its axis and humans will not descend in to chaos. Daylight ain't all it is cracked up to be anyhow. I wonder how many wrecks could be avoided if common sense prevailed and when the sun is at that angle in the sky where it blinds drivers (especially me), we could just not drive during those times of day. But, noooo, we gotta try to fit everything into the daylight hours and pretend night time is somehow unworthy of any activity. And before someone decides to jump all up in my shit for pointing that out, stores damn roll the sidewalks up, and banks too, when the sun starts going down. So, it is a damn rush to get where we need to go before the sun goes down. Night time hits and people turn all paranoid and shit, for no good reason. I just do not get it. I never will. No amount of rationalizing it will ever convince me that trying to do everything before the Sun goes down is somehow necessary. It is not.

IMO, if night owls ruled the world, it would be a much better place. At the very least, there would be less skin cancer from the effects of the Sun on skin.

[greatlaurel]

146. Politicians cannot golf after dark!

DST is only done so politicians and the wealthy have more daylight to golf. None of the so called benefits of DST hold up to any rational review.

[greatlaurel]

148. Forgot to add that was a great post!

Thanks! Really good points.

[reformist2]

81. In summary, we do it because it's fun!

[Separation]

139. DST really sucks for us

We live about 30 miles West of the Eastern/Central time zone boundary. So it will get dark at our house at 3:30 in the afternoon during the winter. Which really sucks.

Somebody else said something about safer driving, that's an argument that has been going on for a while, both for and against. I know that when I lived in Tampa, the accidents went up for 2-3 days right after the switch.

[Vashta Nerada]

159. Uses less electricity?

Hahaha.

There's still the same amount of daylight and darkness.

Wow. Just...wow.

[Travis_0004]

162. It does use less electricity

Ben Franklin proposed using DST as a way to burn less candles, so its not really a new theory.

With daylight savings time, the sun sets at 9pm.

Without it, it sets at 8pm.

Most Americans are home between 8 and 9pm. Since the sun is still out, they don't need to turn on lights until later in the evening.

The sun rises at about 5am with daylight savings time. Without DST, it would rise at 4am. Most Americans are asleep between 4am and 5am, so there is no benefit to the extra daylight when people are asleep.

Since lights are getting to be more efficient, then benefit of electric savings is a bit smaller, but there are lots of other good benefits, such as extra time to ride a bike, play golf, grill out, or whatever else you want to do.

[AngryOldDem]

175. This is the reason why I like Daylight Savings.

Indiana used to not follow it. It would be dark at 8 p.m. in July. Really, really fun if you wanted to do stuff (like yardwork after work) in the evening.

And I think the psychological boost that it gives is helpful, especially after this bitch of a winter.

Indiana is looking to scrap DST. I'd rather see it move to Central Time than do that. Anything else rather than complete darkness in July at 8 p.m.

And if the main complaint is having to reset a few clocks, then geezus, I wish I had those problems.

[pipi_k]

19. Like

you I don't give a shit which time standard is used...just pick one and stick with it.

Not that it makes that much difference to me sleep-wise, because I can sleep whenever I want to (nap during the day), but it sucks for my dogs.

I feed them at set times twice a day.

When the time changes, they don't understand, and their poor tummies are all mixed up for about a week.

Also, my home is full of clocks and watches. I personally have five watches that all need to be re-set twice a year. Then there are the clocks...about nine of them.

It's a real pain in the ass.

[Jenoch]

35. Your dogs don't have to be on DST.

Why don't you feed them at the same time, sun-wise all year long?

[pipi_k]

110. If the time

stayed the same throughout the year, then it wouldn't be a problem.

But if I have an appointment or some other time-dependent event, with a consistent (according to the clock) feeding schedule, it's easier to know when to leave the house or when to be back home, especially since I have them nap in their crates for an hour after meals. One of my past dogs died from Bloat, and it was horrible. I know that I can't totally prevent it, but I'm trying the best I can to make it less likely it will happen again.

It would be so much easier to just leave the kibble out and let them self-feed if one of them didn't have over-eating issues. Also, since they still eat their own poo (at nearly 6 years old) it means we have to be able to predict when they're likely to poo so it can be picked up (they have free access to fenced yard).

Having animals is much like having little furry children...

[PADemD]

163. Changing Clocks

My kitchen clock, which hangs high over the sink, stays on standard time the year round. My stove clock and any other clock that can be reached without a ladder gets changed to DST.

[R B Garr]

170. I find the clocks in the cars are the most annoying

Usually I drive around for a few days looking at it until I finally give in and take the time to reach through the steering wheel and deal with it before I drive off. A lot of the other clocks change electronically now, at least the new alarm clocks do and the cell phones and computer do, too.

Oh, and the microwave clock is also a pain.

[countryjake]

20. I so agree with you, I'm always afraid I'll break my bird-clock...

whenever I have to change it to catch up with the times. Last year I didn't even change it at all, after coming home from my dead mother's house, where every clock read a different time, ha! I learned that I actually like seeing what time it actually is rather than the time they want us to think it is.

Cicadian Rhythms (last dying breath)

[REP]

22. I HATE it for the first few days ... then I love it.

Do I contradict myself? Perhaps I do. I contain multitudes and rip off Whitman

[babylonsister]

23. Yea, I love you, too.

But I really do! Clocks are going to change, but not us!

[City Lights]

24. I completely agree!

[Adrahil]

25. I agree... and love the avatar.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

26. yeah. what a drag. ain't nobody got time for that!

[RKP5637]

27. Yes, pick one and never change it again! I would like to stay on DST permanently. n/t

[HuckleB]

30. One question: Do you go to sleep at the same time every night?

Last edited Thu Mar 6, 2014, 12:25 AM - Edit history (1)

If there are days where you decide to stay up an hour or more later, why is this such a big deal.

Note: There is no good reason for changing clocks. I agree. I just think most humans complain about something that they do to themselves regularly. It's an odd thing.

[scarletwoman]

42. During the work week, I get UP at the same time every morning, so if I want a decent night's sleep,

I need to go to bed around the same time every night, too.

Yes, some nights I stay up a little later - but the older I get, the harder it's gotten to function well when I've stayed up late. So I generally keep to the same bedtime all week - even on the weekends, since I still wake up at the same time even when it's not a work day.

That's one of the things I've noticed about getting old - my internal clock is just not as flexible as it was when I was younger.

[tabasco]

32. I used to not give a shit

but now I hate it too.

[hunter]

34. Add my name to the list of DST haters.

Give me a fixed clock, or a clock that resets every day when it's high noon on the opposite side of the planet.

Don't fuck with my biological clock.

[niyad]

38. "we get an extra hour of daylight" is the phrase that makes me nuts. humans cannot create an

EXTRA hour of daylight, or nightlight, or dawnlight. as a wag once observed, "only a fool would think that cutting the end off a blanket and sewing it on the other end makes a longer blanket"

[oldhippie]

50. "Useable" daylight ......

Daylight before my eyes open in the morning (now that I am retired, about 0730) is not real daylight for me. How can it be daylight when my eyes are shut?

[niyad]

55. sorry, I do not hear the modifier "usable" when the talking heads refer to dst.

[BlueStreak]

80. Indiana fought the adoption of DST for the longest time because we were afraid the extra hour

of sunlight would burn out our crops. Well we finally gave up and conformed with the 47 other states. But we have had some really brutal growing seasons since then, so I think they were right to oppose it.

[RC]

126. BINGO!

There is only 24 hours in a day. A day is how long it takes the earth to revolve once completely. With this so-called savings time, the earth's day is still 24 hours long. Only we are told it is still 24 hours long, but we wake up an hour earlier. We never really do get that hour back. Come fall, if we have to get up at a certain regular time, many of us wake and hour before we need to get up. Another hour lost.
Somebody pleas make it stop. The insanity of so many people acting like the Sun actually rises and sets an hour later and earlier, twice a year, according to the dictates of Congress.

[Common Sense Party]

40. Did someone say 'cicadian rhythms'?

I dig the rhythm method. My rhythm is once every 14 years.

[scarletwoman]

64. Oops! I am not an insect!

I edited my OP to correct the spelling.

[Common Sense Party]

72. It didn't bug me.

[scarletwoman]

73. ouch.

[oneshooter]

43. Blame Benjamin Franklen and WW1

Ben's idea, Wilson's order.

[scarletwoman]

87. Well, since light bulbs hadn't been invented yet in Ben's day, and 24/7 businesses weren't around in

Wilson's day, maybe we ought to revisit the rationales for switching our clocks twice a year?

Because, honestly, I don't think those original rationales hold up.

[glowing]

44. Why not set it ahead by 1/2 an hour, and then leave it all alone...

It would be 1/2 way from the fall back and 1/2 way from the spring ahead and 30 mins one way or the other won't matter much in the day time… Then we could fix it for once and all and leave it the hell alone. AND damn-it, I'm losing an hour of sleep… I don't need that crap already… Super busy at my work and I work over the weekends… Man, I'm going to be dragging butt.

[tofuandbeer]

46. I wrote both my senators last year to suggest they put a stop to this. It's inane!

Leave it one way or the other.
From what I read, the idea was originally created by a man in the UK, he suggested a 20 minute time change.
Can you imagine that?!

Anyway, good to hear I'm not alone in hate for DST.

[MisterP]

58. IIRC it passed because he put a Union Jack on his pamphlets: that's literally

all the argument it took in the 1910s...

[tofuandbeer]

74. From I recall (without re-looking it up) it passed later but not the 20 minute delay.

I think I read it on Wikipedia. Sorry, I'm being lazy by not researching it again.
But, that's nuts about the power of the Union Jack.
Maybe we can do that with the US flag to have it revoked?

[Silver Swan]

49. I don't like to change time

But I would choose standard time for all year. I like the early sunset in the winter, and I don't like the long evenings in the summer.

Why not a compromise, with a time year round half way in between? Certainly the US is big enough to do this without causing international problems. After all, any one whose work involves contacts over several time zones know how to accommodate these differences.

[greiner3]

51. Hey Red;

Smoke a blunt and you will not get so hung up on the small things in life.

Jus saying.

[Tumbulu]

53. It was the only thing that I liked

about living in Arizona. I hate changing the time, a completely unnecessary added stress.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

54. So-called "standard time" isn't standard anymore

We have so-called "daylight saving" time for seven months per year. It is now the new de facto standard.

I used to have relatives who lived in Alaska. They said that they carried flashlights to school in the winter.

[scarletwoman]

66. Yeah, why even bother going back and forth?

I don't care which time it is - so-called "Standard" or Daylight Saving Time - all I want is ONE time, all year 'round.

I mean, c'mon - the sun rises and sets when it does. Just pick a time for our clocks and stick with it. We ought to be able to deal with it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

154. I would prefer to stay on DST

They stay on Standard Time in Japan, and in summer, the sun rises at 4:30AM (way before most people are ready to face the day) and sets at 7:00PM, just as people are getting home from work.

As a high school student in a suburb of Minneapolis, I attended a school that was built on the then-fashionable plan of no windows. Standard time in Minnesota is a bummer in the winter. School started at 7:45, and if I stayed for after-school activities (working on the newspaper or yearbook, mostly), the sun would be setting by the time I left.

[scarletwoman]

156. I think that my 6 years of living in Alaska kind of cured me of wanting to mess with the ratio

of light to dark in a day. When it's still light at 3 in the morning in the summer, and dark at 3 in the afternoon in the winter, it hardly matters how you set the clocks in your house. Daylight lasts as many hours as it lasts, you simply live with how it is.

Whether we could stay on DST all year or on Standard Time all year really doesn't make any difference to me. I just really want to stop having to switch back and forth.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

56. I got, DST year around and ET

Chicago is right on the boarder of ET and CT. It gets dark too damn early in Chicago in the winter. Going DST and ET would be awesome for those of us who like daylight.

[ashling]

60. I think we should just stick to

changing to "Daylight Time" so we'd just keep getting an extra hour to sleep

if we did that every day, the day after Dec.31 would be last year

[greatlaurel]

61. DST is a really bad idea that keeps going because politicians love golf.

It is bad for people and it is especially bad for children. Lack of sleep is a major health problem in the US and DST makes it so much worse. Children's performance in school tanks after the change to DST. Ever wonder why it was moved up so early in March(besides golf)? The time switch is right before all the standardized testing takes place in public schools in March. Just another game being played to destroy public education. The argument that it saves electricity has been debunked.

You are 100% correct on DST. I hate it,too. We will never get rid of it thanks to golf. Most idiotic idea ever.

[merrily]

62. The US did not change times during World War II. It was called WT (War Time).

Supposedly, changing the time twice a year somehow helps farmers, though I no longer recall the supposed rationale. (Cows and crops don't wear watches, so farmers would seem to be less affected than someone who must commute to a job early in the morning or late at night.)

Speaking of which, a guy with a doctoral decree once bemoaned to me that changing the time was going to result in his plants getting less sunlight.



His degree was not in science, but still.....

[scarletwoman]

82. That's the thing. Farmers are going to work by the available daylight, no matter what the clock says

And all the city folk are going to be working in buildings with artificial light - lights that will be on all day regardless of how much sunlight there is outside.

Some kids will be waiting for the school bus in the dark - it all depends on how far north they are. In any case, whether you change the clocks or not, they will still have the same number of mornings in the dark. All that the time switch does is change which weeks this happens - either in November or March.

[merrily]

83. Yes. I am not disagreeing with you.

I was just adding a factoid and something I found funny. Just rambling, I guess. (It's late.)

[scarletwoman]

84. "(It's late.)" - not as late as will be next week! :D

I knew you weren't disagreeing, I was just sorta expanding on your point.

It's late for me, too...

Good night!

[merrily]

85. Good one! Especially since it is indeed late.

Don't think I could be that clever while this sleepy, maybe never.

Good night to you as well.

[chillfactor]

63. Sorry....I LOVE DST....

with all the things going on in our country and the world.....I could think of many other things to bitch about than DST....changing the clocks twice a year is here to stay....live with it!

[scarletwoman]

76. Sorry for being so frivolous. But bitch I shall.

Because why the hell not? Why should I not question this idiotic policy that actually, truly affects my quality of life? Why should I accept that "changing the clocks twice a year is here to stay" when it has an adverse effect in my real world?

I intend to question the utility of this policy and will not meekly keep quiet.

[B Calm]

93. Extra hour of daylight after going to work all day,

I would think everybody would like that!

[HipChick]

65. please spare me whinning about a few clocks..

I have to work the entire weekend bringing down servers because they can't handle the hour change..

[scarletwoman]

70. I'm not whining about clocks. I'm questioning why we should all get jacked around

for this time change shit.

Why should YOU get jacked around? "I have to work the entire weekend bringing down servers because they can't handle the hour change.."

Why should ANY of us get jacked around?

Is there really any good reason?

[bigwillq]

68. I loathe it as well (nt)

[JI7]

71. i agree, i'm already having trouble getting up and this will make it worse

i really thing this stupid time change is why i have these problems.

[trackfan]

75. DST is pure folly.

People on the Left and Right will complain endlessly about how much they hate big government. Yet virtually 100% of the population will willingly acquiesce to having the government tell them it is noon when it is really an hour before noon. If you live anywhere in the vicinity of a rooster (that's a cock for you Brits - we're too babyish for that word in America), you know what folly DST is.

[alittlelark]

77. 'president' bush the lesser changed it while we were all war-distracted

http://www.timetemperature.com/tzus/daylight_saving_time_extended.shtml

On Monday August 8, 2005 President Bush signed into law a broad energy bill (Energy Policy Act of 2005) that extended Daylight Saving Time by four weeks beginning in 2007. The provisions of the bill called for Daylight Saving Time to begin three weeks earlier on the second Sunday in March and end one week later on the first Sunday in November. Previously, Daylight Saving Time started on the first Sunday in April and ended on the last Sunday in October. The provisions took effect on March 11, 2007.
Recreation - people will have more time to enjoy outdoor activities such as golf, tennis and theme parks.
Farming - many farmers work part time and will have an extra hour to work after they arrive home. Full time farmers may not benefit.

Extending Daylight Saving Time Opponents argued:

School Children - will possibly wait in the pitch dark for the school bus. Example, in Louisville, Kentucky sunrise will occur at 8:01 on March 11, 2007, however, Louisville schools currently begin classes at 7:40 for middle and high school.

Business - the airline industry claims it will cost millions of dollars to adjust schedules

Computers, Clocks and Gadgets - many electronic devices automatically adjust for day light saving time. Some of these devices will show incorrect times. Some computer software will have to be reprogrammed.

[Xyzse]

122. Yeah! I've been mentioning that.

It is one of the many many reasons he has earned my unwavering dislike.

[winter is coming]

79. Already! Shit. I *hate* DST. n/t

[kentauros]

86. Ahh, Daylight "Slaving" Time, aka, FMJL.

Or, "Federally-Mandated Jet Lag"


I don't know how true this is, but I remember our station manager at a local public radio station (back in the 1990s) stating that part of the push for having DST was because of the "charcoal briquette lobby." In other words, because there's more daylight in the summer evenings, people will use more charcoal in their backyard barbeques.

Again, don't know how true that was, but it does make some sense

[greatlaurel]

150. That is very interesting about the charcoal lobby.

Like we will be doing any charcoal grilling in March anywhere north of the Mason-Dixon line. Last week in April in a good year, if it is an unusually dry spring.

Thanks for the post.

[Scuba]

91. I'm glad it's here. We need the extra hour of sunlight to melt all this snow!

[scarletwoman]

98. I hope you're not serious! Tongue in cheek, yes?

Because I'm sure you know that there IS no "extra hour" of daylight just because we change our clocks. The number of hours of sunlight we get at this time of year is a function of the tilt of the earth, not what our clocks are set at.

But you know that, right?

[Scuba]

100. What???!!! Are you kidding me!??!!

[pokerfan]

172. but what about gobal warming

with an extra hour of sunlight each day, that can't be good.

[Scuba]

179. Hmmmm. Good point.

[sendero]

95. Me too..

.... what ignorant hubris DST is. And a nightmare for computer programmers that have to deal with time, because a day is not 86400 seconds if it is a day where DST went on or off. Many a program has crashed or gone into an infinite loop because DST wasn't accounted for and did you know that not only does the date it starts and ends change by year but some states/localities don't honor it? What a mess.

The shark was seriously jumped when we backed up all the way to early March. Why not Jan 1 to Dec 31? It would make a lot more sense.

We would be better off starting our workdays at 7 or whatever, playing with something as fundamental as time itself is ridiculous.

[LWolf]

96. I'm with you there.

I HATE the twice yearly slam of my body clock.

While I much prefer DST to ST, being an early bird and liking the idea of having some daylight left when I'm done with the work day, I'd happily settle in to either if we could just pick one and stick to it.

[Blue_Adept]

99. Definitely, and I hate time zones too.

The US should be one big ass time zone our own using ET. It's frustrating trying to relax in the evening but my colleagues are working away in California and continually ping me for things to do.

Just call it American Time. Combine into one big timezone and use DST for it.

[hobbit709]

101. The time the sun is at it's zenith is different for every town.

High noon is not high noon at the same time even in the same time zone.

[Democracyinkind]

102. It has saved an unimaginable amount of energy.

Which is worth any amount of personal discomfort, IMHO.

[RC]

135. The reason it saves unimaginable amount of energy, is because

it is only in the imagination where any energy is saved.

Does Daylight Saving Time Save Energy? Evidence from a Natural Experiment in Indiana
http://www.nber.org/papers/w14429

[Democracyinkind]

138. It may very well have stopped being true around the 1970s. nt

[NuttyFluffers]

104. i hate it too. i only want it to fall back.

extra sunlight is icky.

prefer darkness. been looking into a job that trades north and south hemispheres in mediterranean climates. then i can have two autumns and two winters. winter sorta sucks, as i hate snow. and i'd prefer spring, without allergies of course, but can't find a way to get what i want. so i'll settle for extra darkness and two autumns.

now if i can just get more than one halloween a year...

[tridim]

105. Ironically I don't think they can change it now because of all the computers...

And electronics that will have to be reprogrammed to NOT do DST.

It's likely a more complex problem than Y2K was.

[RC]

137. My computers are set to NOT follow this so-called DST

The same with my Atomic Clock.
Central Standard Time, all year long. Computers actually don't care what time they show in the tray.

[Fumesucker]

107. Meh, I've been mentally subtracting an hour from my clock since Fall

Now I'll just stop subtracting that hour.

For some reason the clock I like (projects time on the bedroom ceiling) does not appreciate having the time changed on it so I just leave it alone and make the mental adjustment. Since I'm retired it makes no real difference when I get up and I'm usually up really early anyway since I can't sleep more than about four hours in a row because my back starts hurting too much and I have to get up.

That's why you see me posting on DU at ungodly hours, I'm up because it hurts too much to lie down. I stay up for an hour or three and then go back to bed for another couple of hours.

[seveneyes]

108. Be thankful you are not in charge of the clocks and computers in an industrial environment

While the personal hassle is noteworthy, maintaining sanity in process/measurement time critical processes while jacking around with wall clock time can become a routine headache. I agree, pick one and let it be.

[muriel_volestrangler]

111. Do you believe your circadian rhythms would mean you get up at the same time all year?

Most cultures in temperate zones have always woken up earlier during summer months. DST is a reflection of this, in a world where most people have a timetable (work, school) to keep to. The times are put an hour earlier, to reflect our preference for getting up earlier.

[scarletwoman]

143. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I think you have it backwards.

When we change to DST we have to set our clocks an hour ahead. That is, when it's 2 a.m. this Sunday night - woosh, it will become 3 a.m. because of the time change.

In practical terms, here's how it affects me personally: after months of slogging through a singularly brutal winter, for the past two weeks it has finally started to be light outside when I leave for work at 6:30 a.m. Starting next Monday, after the time change, it will go back to being pitch dark again for my morning commute. The clock will say "6:30", but the time will actually be 5:30, lightwise.

So, starting next Monday, it will take about another two weeks before my morning drive occurs in daylight again. And I find that highly irritating.

[Skittles]

144. I'm just curious but

why do you care so much if your morning drive is in daylight or not? I say this as a nightshift worker who often commutes in the dark

[scarletwoman]

149. Two reasons - both having to do with living in very rural area.

1st - I'm getting old, and my night vision is going to shit. It's scary for me to drive in the dark these days, I have to drive at least 5-10 mph below the speed limit when it's dark in order to feel like I can see the road good enough. And since I'm in the boonies, the road I have to take to work is just a 2-lane highway with no street lights anywhere, and lots of trees and brush along both sides.

Which brings me to my 2nd reason.

2nd - the road I drive is basically deer ally. They line up on both sides of the road intent on suicide by car - with all the trees and brush alongside the road as cover until they burst into the open right in front of your car as you desperately attempt split second evasive maneuvers. They move around most often during twilight, but also in pitch dark. At least when driving during daylight one can see far enough ahead and to the sides to have a decent chance of avoiding a collision.

I must add, however, that due to the aforementioned brutal winter we've had in these parts, deer sightings and collisions have been tapering off over the past couple of months, since so many of them have starved to death.

[Skittles]

152. OK that makes sense

I drive in a metroplex and although my eyes are terrible too, it's very brightly lit and the deer stay back

[muriel_volestrangler]

145. What I'm saying is that without a clock or timetable, we get up earlier in the summer

Rather than rising at, say, 5 hours before local noon, we may rise six hours before. Because we don't naturally sleep long past dawn. What Daylight Savings Time does is alter our timetable to fit that - we say "we'll get up at 7am", and in winter, 7am is 5 hours before local noon, and in summer, 7am is 6 hours before local noon.

I see you're in Minnesota. If you look at the graph for dawn times here, you see that using daylight savings time keeps dawn within fairly close limits - a complete variation of about 2 hours 20 minutes, through the year, where it would be 3 hours 20 minutes without it. For a lifestyle where you get up and immediately start on a regular timetable - breakfast takes the same time each day, your commute takes the same time each day, work starts at the same time on the clock each day - this is useful.

[scarletwoman]

166. I'm sorry, I'm simply unable to grasp what you're getting at here.

I'm just simple-minded, I guess.

All I know is that when DST goes into effect, it extends the number of days I'll be getting up in the dark. And in the height of summer, it means that I will be going to bed while it's still light out, if I want to get a good enough night's sleep. So the extended daylight at the end of the day is wasted on me.

It doesn't cut back on my energy use, either, because with the mornings still dark, I'll just be turning on the lights in the morning instead of at the end of the day.

But the main thing is, I don't care if it's DST or Standard Time - I just don't want to have to keep switching twice a year. Just pick a time and stick with it.

[madokie]

113. Least of my worries

I get up all hours of the night anyway so it really doesn't bother me. I'm retired so my days all run together anyway too so there's that.

[former9thward]

114. Move to Arizona.

You no longer will have to worry about it. AZ stays on standard time all year.

[scarletwoman]

151. No way. I've lived in quite a few other places over the years, but Minnesota is my home, and I ain't

living anywhere else ever again.

[Auntie Bush]

116. It's also hard on COWS!

They let their milk down expecting to be milked. They suffer with extended utters when we don't milk them for another hour. Then they get used to that and we change the time again in the Fall.

[leftyladyfrommo]

117. Thank goodness it's changing back.

My dogs never made the change. Now they will be back on schedule again and they won't wake me up until 4 in the morning instead of 3. Yea!

[suffragette]

119. I prefer falling back to springing forward

And hate that Bush changed the dates for doing this and made that the pattern for even more of the year.

I'd rather have it be one time all year instead of this seesawing back and forth as well. Not looking forward to feeling sleep deprived for the next couple of weeks.

[scarletwoman]

158. Yeah, I'm totally with you on that whole sleep-deprived thing

The older I get, the harder it is to adjust my sleep cycle every spring. It takes me a good two weeks of feeling messed up also.

[Blue_In_AK]

123. It's completely ridiculous

especially in Alaska where we get quite enough daylight in the summer without artificially increasing it.

[scarletwoman]

157. Yeah, really! I can't understand why big, bad, "we do things OUR way" Alaska goes along

with such nonsense! As if the sun setting at 3 a.m. in the summer is a big improvement over the sun setting at 2 a.m.!

[loudsue]

124. Me, too, Scarletwoman. It just isn't natural.

There are enough other things making people crazy without having to shift their clock twice a year. I guess for the not-having-to-work class it is easier to shift....after all, who cares? Right?

But for people with a job/school or other regular responsibilities, I think a natural rhythm helps.

[scarletwoman]

160. Exactly! "There are enough other things making people crazy..."

Whatever rationales that were in play when this biennial exercise in clock-changing was first put into practice are for the most part irrelevant or inoperative now. More leisure time in the evenings? How many people have the luxury of any damn leisure time at all? If you have to get up early in the morning for work, then all DST means is that you'll have to go to bed while it's still light out so you can get enough sleep to make it through your workday.

It seems to me like it's just one more form of social control - your twice-yearly obedience test for submitting to authority. There may be no good reasons for having your sleep cycle jacked around twice a year, but yours is not to question why - yours is just to submit.

[loudsue]

171. That is how it has felt to me for years now.

I'm in total agreement, but I think we're out of luck. It's just one more of those things that the "government" (?) has decided we're going to do. Someone, somewhere, at some point, had a major brain fart to change the clocks, and....so you would think that Mother Nature herself declared it so.

I just don't think Mother Nature even got a say in this one.

[Jamastiene]

127. They are still basing the clocks on that perfectly round shape,

when the Earth does not orbit the Sun in a perfectly round shape. Plus, to quote Biafra, "What big business wants, big business gets..." So we have to put up with this shit twice a year every year and add in that stupid Leap Day.

All this because inventors who might be interested in building an accurate clock that we would not have to beat it to fit and paint it to match are not valued in our society. Instead, do nothings who kick the can down the road are valued in our society. Inventors can fund everything thing out of their own money, while grants are given to non inventors to do exactly bullshit.

So, we are stuck with this stupid DST shit for eternity. The human species is so freaking binary and obsessed with round shapes. Left/right, up/down, gay/straight, male/female, it's all bullshit. There is no such thing is either or in the natural world. There is the middle, the middle again, bi/trans/intersexed/and more. In nature, the variations are endless, but humans refuse to see that. Instead everything must be some binary bullshit.

For fuck's sake, we KNOW why the days get longer and shorter each year. We know why all this shit happens. Make a damn clock that will reflect that and quit making us change the fucking time every time we turn around, based on some silly "daylight savings" bullshit concept. No daylight is "saved." It's just a stupid reverse vampire thing with the human species. Like if darkness falls on a human shopper, they will scream hideously and melt right where they stand. It is utterly ridiculous.

I could rant about this subject practically forever. I hate hate hate DST AND Leap Year/Day. Both are beating it to fit and painting it to match because we can't fucking tell time right. Round clocks are the unevolved way to tell time. We got a million mathematicians in this world who would love to work on something like an accurate clock based on that actual science. Instead, we gotta go fidgeting with damn clocks every time we turn around. Bah humbug.

[HappyMe]

128. It doesn't bother me.

It's only an hour.

[central scrutinizer]

132. When my daughter was living in Chile (southern hemisphere)

there would be a two hour jump in the time difference when the US went on DST and Chile went off DST or vice versa. There are other oddities regarding time - While most places are offset by hour integer multiples from UTC, Nepal is UTC + 5:45, India is UTC + 5:30

[bvar22]

133. Our cats and our chickens don't get the memo, and they don't care.

They structure their lives by the sunrise and sunset.
We have been fortunate enough to be able to do the same.

[scarletwoman]

161. I'm sincerely delighted for you! Unfortunately, I'm still a wage slave.

So I can't live my life by the natural rhythms of sunrise and sunset, much as I would love to.

I make the best of where I'm at, and I know that I'm luckier than a whole lot of folks, and I'm grateful for what I have. It's all relative. But on top of everything else I deal with in my life, I simply resent being jacked around twice a year around by this stupid clock-changing thing.

[Separation]

136. Absolutely hate it

We live about 30 miles west of the Eastern and Central Time zone line. So it gets dark here at 3:30 in the afternoon during the winter. I have had more cabin fever here than when I lived in Alaska.

[jimlup]

142. I thought this way once but actually I'll concede that by June...

we should probably "Spring forward" but it isn't very useful for us right now. I'll be back to driving to work in the damn dark again. Not OK actually...

As I recall the move to make it happen earlier in the Spring and stay later in the fall was a Republican sponsored "energy" program. I think the evidence is that DST actually costs more energy than it saves so like most Republican programs it is based on a falsehood.

Anyway I hate it and I blame the Repuklians and they actually are responsible.

[scarletwoman]

164. "I'll be back to driving to work in the damn dark again." - same here.

And yes, I blame the damn republicans, too. There's really no evidence that DST saves energy. It's just an obedience test - submit to authority.

[WillowTree]

153. Personally, I prefer to save my outrage for something that actually matters.

But that's just me.

[scarletwoman]

155. LOL Oddly enough, just because I find DST irritating, doesn't mean I don't feel outrage

over all sorts of other things at the same time.

I'm a multi-tasker when it comes to outrage.

[DrDan]

176. +1 - seems like a lot of energy directed at a pretty minor issue

[R B Garr]

169. I tend to like it the way it is. Maybe that's because I like it getting darker early in the Fall.

We don't really have four extreme seasons in Southern California, so I like it that it gets darker earlier in the winter. That's about as much of a change as there is to denote the alternate seasons.

But I can see your point, and I've heard your same comments from others that don't like the time changes.

[cherokeeprogressive]

173. Meh. Variety is the SPICE of life.

[sibelian]

177. I think DST is a great idea.

I start waking up earlier in the summer when the light comes in the window earlier. DST means I can get to work and start doing stuff earlier and get away earlier. There's no point coming in an hour early if there's nobody else at work!

[PATRICK]

178. Let's not forget the metric system debate!

(Sorry, I erased the post about that title as disruptive.) The most negative aspects of DST came to roost when Bush decided to further tweak it, which meant it probably had something to do with increasing oil consumption and endangering lives.

We were always told by rote it had to do with agriculture(getting child labor back onto the farms also tyrannizes our sacred summer vacation season) and since a lot of those states with a lot of representation are on hold with the old whether it applies to modern farming or not.

Nothing passes in this Congress. This is likely not on the to do A,B or C list should sensible reps ever come to power.

But what about the metric system? The costs will only benefit other American businesses(new potential for profiteers!) in the painful short run.

[taterguy]

180. There should be an exception for you

[scarletwoman]

181. Ha!

Seeing your post has just made my day!

Thank you, Taterguy - you have always been exceptional!