Why on hell are some peple so in need to TRASH Kerry all the time?

[mylye2222]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4613725
hat on Hell did this guy done to you PERSONNALY?

Let me be clear. John Kerry WILL NEVER RUN AGAIN. Some fellow Dems for 20016 supporters should be relaxed...

&feature=player_detailpage


But no.

Why are you so in need to mock him. Im not saying criticize his points of views. its legitimate. I mean joking about his phisycal appearence like "long face" crap, quoting the 2004 RW and FAUXNEWS okes and so on.....

What on Hell did this guy done to you PERSONNALY?

I understand you alsmost ten years old frustration.

But please, grow up. You just play RWs game by acting like that.

Thank you.

[Whisp]

1. K&R

it IS like a r/w forum here sometimes/a lot of the time, isn't it?

same shit from that other side gets posted here, in practically the same words, but it's called 'feet to the fire' and 'ain't I a true prog' instead of batshit crazyness or know it all cuz I gots rex.

fuck.

[bigwillq]

2. Because he is awful?

[roguevalley]

120. yeah. agreed, bigwillq

[bobduca]

124. this

[Rex]

3. Why do some posters completely ignore the obvious?

Everyone likes to cherry pick.

[Tx4obama]

4. A copy of the GD SOP (in case anyone has not seen it yet)...

General Discussion Statement of Purpose

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.

[mylye2222]

7. It is not "whining"

Its trying to discuss some problems in purpose to bring back some civility between us and toward some leaders who absolutely dont deserve constant hatred thrown at them here.

[bigwillq]

9. Kerry will be fine

no matter how much "hatred" is directed at him by posters on a message board.
But your concern is noted. Have a great day!

Welcome to DU! It sure is fun here!

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. "Hatred" is a very strong word. I would use it with caution.

While I am not a fan of Mr. Kerry, to assume that I hate him is ridiculous and cheapens the discussion. Mr. Kerry has put himself out there for the job and the criticisms that will come with the job. I will not walk lockstep when I disagree with a politician, no matter what letter comes after his name. That right there is the epitome of RW logic.

[roguevalley]

121. if anyone speaks about the stuff some people do here, Obama and Kerry for example, then

they get called haters. I really am sick of that 12 year old term applied to adults having a discussion. Besides, some people really don't like him. Its a free country.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

76. "No whining about DU."

Good luck with THAT one.







Oh wait,.....was that a whine?

[NightWatcher]

5. it's the beginning of Crazy Season around here

It happens before the candidates even announce if they are running. We'll divide into factions, attack the other candidates, gnash our teeth and rend our clothes, and then after the nomination is made, we'll all get behind the candidate or leave in a "purge" of sore losers.

Let's get ready to rumble

[ScreamingMeemie]

43. As a past "sore loser," I've stuck around. I don't "get behind" candidates I'm unhappy

with. I simply vote for them because I have no choice. It's a sad state of affairs really.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

70. It's been that way most of my adult life.

That's just reality. We never agree with anyone 100% of the time.

[Cha]

6. Yeah, Kerry's so "awful" the way he helped get Peace Negotiations

with Iran.

[mylye2222]

8. He's so "BAD" he had the "OUTRAGE" to expose BCCI......

[Cha]

12. lol yeah, people are so ignorant sometimes.. they can't

look past one thing to see all the good someone has done.

That's was a stupid graphic you linked to.. I trashed it immediately. And, like Tx said.. this thread might not make it but I'm glad you did it, mylye.

[sheshe2]

10. K&R

[Cha]

13. ..

[sheshe2]

15. ~

[rdharma]

11. Maybe this wouldn't be so divisive if you posted it in the John Kerry (Group)

Just a suggestion.

[mylye2222]

14. it would be unusefull over there

most constant trashers dont go to that group, at least for comment. They 99% plays their mocking on GD.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

16. Some who do are trolls. Others are just sad people

With sad lives who trash anything. And some (a minority who mock Kerry) do it because their actual disappointment with him spills into hateful mockery.

[cui bono]

19. And some because...

he said something stupid or disingenuous that if anyone in BushCo had said they would've been criticized by everyone on here.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

30. I'm gonna go with sad.

[cui bono]

38. I agree completely. It was sad, pathetic even, for him to say that.

[roguevalley]

122. to explain what some feel? so, we get it. you like Kerry no matter what. Good for you. Don't

expect others to do the same. You will always be sad.

Beliebers have the same sad too.

[cui bono]

125. I think maybe you misunderstood my post?

I neither like nor dislike Kerry. I think he made a mistake with his statement about not invading another country under false pretext since we did exactly that with Iraq.

[Cha]

20. + ONE

[Hissyspit]

33. Why do you do absolutely nothing but personal attack?

[cui bono]

36. Because PW likes danger.

He likes to constantly teeter on the brink of getting that 5th hide.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

45. I was answering another pister's question about

Why people on DU mock Sec. State Kerry.

[cui bono]

17. Don't know about all the time but when he says something so stupid or disingenuous

he's gonna get called on it by the people who place principles and ethics over party loyalty no matter what they do.

He said something really stupid and incorrect.

[geek tragedy]

25. What was so patently false that he said? nt

[cui bono]

31. Considering our invasion of Iraq, uh, yeah. And hypocritical.

We invaded a country on completely trumped up pretext.

What a stupid thing to say.

[geek tragedy]

54. So you disagree with him? Or is it that

Russia gets a free pass?

[cui bono]

95. Neither. What he said was stupid and hypocritical considering what our country did.

[geek tragedy]

96. So he should not have pointed out the illegality

of an invasion?

[dflprincess]

97. If he was going to do that he should have done it when the U.S. decided to invade Iran

instead of voting for the invasion.

He doesn't have a whole lot of moral authority when it comes to illegal invasions.

[geek tragedy]

98. So, another vote for "give Putin a pass." nt

[Capt. Obvious]

99. That's a typical MRA tactic you pulled there

[dflprincess]

100. Another vote for "do as we say not as we do"

Not only will I not give Putin a pass, I won't give one to any American politician (including those with a "D" after their names) who supported our illegal invasion of a country.

[geek tragedy]

104. Did the Obama administration invade Iraq?

I guess Obama should have had Kerry congratulate Putin and cut a deal with him. Because consistency is more important than telling the truth.

[dflprincess]

105. Kerry voted for it

and the Obama administration has refused to prosecute the war criminals. They can't condemn Putin's behavior and give others a pass.

[geek tragedy]

107. So, you think we should give Putin a pass

because Obama didn't throw Bush in jail.

Because consistency matters more than international law.

[dflprincess]

109. If international law matters

then we need to hold ourselves to the same standards we hold others to. As it is, Obama and Kerry are just proving to the world that we are nothing but hypocrites.

[geek tragedy]

110. So Obama should avoid hypocrisy

and say that international law doesn't matter, and give Putin a green light to invade his neighbors.

[dflprincess]

114. Obama already said international law doesn't matter

When he refused to prosecute Bush and Cheney. What makes Putin's actions wosre than theirs?..Besides his not being American, of course.

[geek tragedy]

116. So, you would prefer Obama give Putin the green light to invade his

neighbors rather than state the truth.

Because heaven forbid any imperfect country ever do the right thing when they've done the wrong thing in the past.

[rhett o rick]

126. You ask question after question. Do YOU think we should confront Russia with force if

they dont withdraw?

[geek tragedy]

128. No, the price they pay should be economic and diplomatic.

the same price that the Chinese and Israelis should pay for their abuses.

[cui bono]

123. Not without a caveat. Don't you think it's hypocritical?

You seem to be trying to catch me at something here.

It's clear as day that what he said was hypocritical. He should have at least cushioned it. As it is it looks foolish and can't be taken seriously. He loses credibility for not pointing out the obvious hypocrisy that everyone can see.

[BeyondGeography]

18. Because of IWR, he's apparently not allowed to say anything intelligent or moral ever again

Even if he happens to be SoS. That's the gist of it.

[Cha]

22. Precisely.. especially for Attention Seeking Mongers.

[JI7]

23. i saw some of his biggest attackers who claimed it was IWR support Edwards in 2008, in fact Edwards

was very popular on DU getting more support than Obama and Hillary. in a way it's a good thing that they don't reflect the real world.

we are seeing it right now with the Putin propaganda .

people are full of shit.

[BeyondGeography]

29. True that

Thanks for the (dark) laugh.

[Blaukraut]

80. That's pretty much it. Never mind that he admitted his mistake.

That's apparently now a sign of weakness, or hypocrisy, or something. Imagine the praises everyone would heap on Dubya if he came out saying that the Iraq invasion was the biggest plunder of his presidency, and that he regretted it. Evidently on DU, one must be on the right side of the issue 100% of the time. Be prescient, never make a mistake, so one never needs to learn from that mistake. Perfection or bust!

[Martin Eden]

85. Need some more straw for that man you're constructing?

Where criticism is justified, criticism should be leveled.

When he articulates something intelligent and moral, praise is deserved.

But I really had to cringe when he scolded Russia for invading a country on "trumped-up charges."

[cui bono]

21. So wait a second... is that a new rule?

We're only allowed to criticize people who have done something to us personally?

Who will the mods be, Jerry Springer, Maury Povich and Dr. Phil?

[mylye2222]

28. You really knows what I meant.

Youre just playing the fool.

Re read the full OP.

[cui bono]

32. You asked what has he done to us PERSONALLY.

That's the part I'm responding to there. I reread it and picked up on that and added a response to that part.

And quite frankly, you're playing right wing games if you don't want to hear any criticism of those in your party.

[Rex]

42. That's okay... I asked the OP in another thread if they could point

out who is making personal fun of Kerry and all I got was *crickets*.

[OilemFirchen]

24. 1) Consider the source.

2) Disregard the source.

Works for me every time.

[okaawhatever]

26. Some people would rather insult everyone else than deal with their own shortcomings. There are those

who get upset with a situation or event (normal), but the people who constantly belittle the efforts of others say a lot more about themselves than they do about those they are mocking. It's sad and pathetic and often those types love to write controversial things to gin up a bunch of support for their anger. It makes them feel important.

[grahamhgreen]

27. The saddest thing is his becoming a war monger after all he's been through:(

[mylye2222]

34. He didnt really called for war... He just try to wake up everyone for more intense sanction.

He he was a real war lover, as well as Obama, USA would have already attacked Syria since months ago.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

35. Yes. It was John Kerry who led us into the Syrian and Ukrainian land wars

What a neocon. I heard he personally goaded Obama into proposing chained CPI as he sipped cognac.

[BeyondGeography]

39. I know...four wars now

Stop the endless wars!!!11!1!1

[mylye2222]

40. That was also him who killed Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo.

And sunk the Titanic!

And put explosives into Chernoby'ls Number Reactor....


NONSENSE

[Cha]

41. Cognac? I heard it was RED RED WINE!

[Pretzel_Warrior]

50. It depends on the day. :)

[riqster]

111. FRENCH red wine, and baguettes! Traitor!!!

A cheese-eating surrender monkey!!! Quelle Fromage!

Oh, and I forgot "Ketchup Whore", too.

He's a good man overall and has spent his life serving our nation.

[grahamhgreen]

118. 2 Billion/week for Afghanistan. WE stopped war with Syria.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

119. Sure you did.

[The_Commonist]

44. Because he's a loser?

They hadn't even finished counting the votes in Ohio, despite knowing there were problems, and he ups and quits.
So he's a loser because he's a quitter! He made sure Bush got a second term, and I take that personally.

That, and his IWR vote.
And the hypocrisy there.

But really, I suppose it's because he could have been one of the good guys. He could have done the right thing when he was older, as he did when he was a young man. He could have been one of the giants of his generation. But he sold himself for ketchup money.

My feeling about John Kerry, is that at least he's not as bad as many or even most of them. But that ain't saying much. Loser...

[OilemFirchen]

51. Derpalooza!

[The_Commonist]

58. My goodness, aren't you clever!

Got a beef with anything that I said?

Please answer these questions:

*Did Kerry run a lousy campaign in 2004?
*Did he concede the election before all the votes were counted in Ohio, despite problems being reported?
(at least Al Gore, for his many faults, fought right up 'til the last minute)
*Was he for the Iraq War before he was against it?
*Didn't you think the "ketchup money" bit was clever?
*Isn't it the height of hypocrisy for the Sec of State of the country that invaded Iraq to say that "you don't invade a country on trumped up charges?" If he hadn't voted for it, he might be able to get away with it.
*Did you ever watch his testimony about Vietnam from back in the day?
*Wasn't he awesome then? That guy should've been president.
*Did you get down to the bottom of this list of questions? Are you going to answer any of them?

I won't hold my breath. I'd end up looking like the chick with the heart on her chest.

[OilemFirchen]

65. Yes?

Arguably
Yes
No
No
No
Yes
Yes, maybe
Yes, yes

[Pretzel_Warrior]

106. that is a hilarious/disturbing image

[sendero]

102. +1

... Kerry is emblematic of everything that is wrong with the Democratic party. He voted for the IWR not because he believed the idiotic idea that Iraq still had WMDs but because he was afraid to go against the sentiment of the times.

He ran a pathetic campaign in 2004 because he is a doormat like most Dems, ready to be walked all over by Republican masters. I will never have any respect for him as he is the poster child of Democratic party failure.

[cali]

46. you are deliberately characterizing all criticism of Kerry as "trashing"

whatthefuckever

[mylye2222]

48. as I said earlier

Please re read the OP about what SPECIAL KIND OF ATTACKS I'm talking about.

Thanks you in advance!

[mylye2222]

78. Im an ESL person. Jokes about my grammar.

Your jokes places you on the very level of a bullying kid in a schoolyard.

Wonderful.

[HangOnKids]

82. Oh I'm crushed.

[Tsiyu]

93. And how many languages do you speak fluently, Oh Holy One?

Or are you just one of those people who hangs around to torment others?

[JI7]

81. english is not her first language

[840high]

113. Did that make you

feel big?

[Bobbie Jo]

115. Stay Klassy

That's right, with a K.

[Cha]

47. See what I mean? Some are just stuck in the past.. they cannot grasp the reality

of what's happening right now.

[sheshe2]

53. Stuck alright, Cha.

[Cha]

55. Sad, really. Quite incapable of

seeing the whole picture. I hope they don't carry it on in their own lives.

[irisblue]

49. because he didn't fight for his win in Ohio in 2004

as an Ohio Dem who voted him before, my feeling is that he rolled over and didn't fight for himself in 2004 ;it is hard to believe him today in 2014.

[mylye2222]

52. Actually, he did fought , but it was not under limelights.

He joined the class action complains for a recount, but it didn't succeded. I heard he didnt had support from the DNC powerstructure enough to be fully efficient. And he lagely advocaded for an election reform ...wich we are still waiting for.

[zeemike]

68. And that was after he had conceded the election.

when it no longer mattered.

[mylye2222]

69. A concession is not legal.

And dont forget that even Ai by the Sl Gore unconceded, at the end, he was denied pas the Supremes, who told him " Thats a Forida issue"......

[Aldo Leopold]

56. I like Kerry. Smart guy.

Which may explain why he's so despised. The latter point, I mean.

[freshwest]

89. Definitely. Quantity can always overcome Quality.

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

~ Jonathan Swift

[Aldo Leopold]

91. That is one kick-ass quote.

Thank you.

[bvar22]

57. I don't trash Kerry all the time.

Back in the 60s and 70s when he was a Democrat,
I cheered him.

I have no idea WTF he is now.

[bigwillq]

59. Great post!

[WorseBeforeBetter]

63. ...

[OilemFirchen]

67. Back in the 60s and 70s Democrats wore this:

I have no idea WTF this is:

[bvar22]

77. You don't understand the "V" avatar?

Going by your posts at DU,
you have "no idea" about a lot of things, especially politics and dissent.


This actually means something.
It is a secret code.
Those who already know....understand.
Those that do NOT understand....
well, we didn't feel we could trust you.

1396 1422 6691 8802 0015 0000 8343 9170 8629 8629
The Robin is due next Monday at 6PM.
The Chair is against the wall.
Spring will be late this year

[OilemFirchen]

92. Oh no. I understand it.

I'm simply gobsmacked how embarrassingly juvenile some on the left have become, such that they wear and/or use as an avatar a D.C. Comics plastic mask depicting a character loosely based on a man who, as an agent of the Catholic Church, was caught trying to blow up the House of Lords.

WTF came to mind, but facepalm is actually more appropriate.

Care to school me on politics and dissent? Let's start with what you've observed that I don't have any "idea" about, shall we?

[zeemike]

71. A go along to get along Democrat?

But frankly what did it for me was when I found out he was a Bonesman...just like all of the Bushes...and that sent off my bullshit radar.
What Bonesman would step on the leaders of the Scull and Bones secret society?

[KoKo]

83. Same here...When he was a Democrat I supported him..

WTF is he Now...is the question I have, also.

[DontTreadOnMe]

60. It's the same as those here on DU who see a politician is "always" correct, no matter what the issue

Many Americans are stuck in an ideological view.. about everything.

Shedding new light or new facts... doesn't matter.

[stupidicus]

61. define "all the time"

the better question is why so many take reasonable and justified criticisms of him so personally.

the only thing I've noticed around here, and specifically with BHO criticisms, is that the purity police do a pretty good rhetorical brownshirt impersonation, just minus the clubs.

they were rightwingers, no?

[bigwillq]

62. I don't know why anyone takes criticisms of politicians

personally, but especially on a message board.

Life is too short to take those things seriously.

[stupidicus]

87. me either

I can't imagine having that much invested in any pol.

As a BHO and Kerry voter, I have a right to criticize them all I want.

Imo the criticisms of Kerry aren't really about him alone or those ironic words he recently uttered, but really as much or more about the broader dissatisfaction many of us still on the left of the old ideological center line feel with the party that represents us. His recent comment just served as a catalyst to bring that back into our awareness in a big way.

The same goes with the BHO criticsms for that matter.

[bigwillq]

88. Solid post.

[Autumn]

117. stupidicus that sounds rather smarticus

Best post I've seen in this thread.

[Capt. Obvious]

94. As I said on Manny's thread

They see criticism as a bullet bearing down on a baby - and they are the only ones capable of hurling themselves into the line of fire to save the baby in a brave feat with no regard to their own safety.

They get a medal or emoticon for every baby saved.

[bobduca]

112. brave brave posters all

it takes a lot of blue links and ROFL emoticons to keep this unruly bunch of "extreme leftists" in line!

[ProSense]

64. Think about what

he's being trashed.

"You don't invade a country on completely trumped up pre-text"

What the hell was he thinking? I mean, every country has the right to do that.

Then there is the despicable "19th century" comment. Never mind that some clearly missed Kerry's point, which was not about whether or not it happens (Germany, Russia and other countries carried out invasions in this century). He was characterizing the act as one that shouldn't happen in this century.

KERRY: Well, we hope not. We hope it’s not going to be a disaster. What has already happened is a brazen act of aggression, in violation of international law and violation of the UN Charter and violation of the Helsinki final act. In violation of the 1997 Ukraine-Russia basing agreement. Russia is engaged in a military act of aggression against another country, and it has huge risks, George. It’s a 19th century act in the 21st century. It really puts at question Russia’s capacity to be within the G-8.

It's not Kerry's fault that some have comprehension problems.

He called for what? Diplomacy sucks!

‘This Week’ Transcript: John Kerry

<...>

STEPHANOPOULOS: Sir, are there any military options on the table? During the crisis with Georgia, President Bush moved military warships to the region, sent humanitarian aid on a military aircraft. Is the U.S. prepared to do that now? Anything more?

KERRY: George, the hope of the United States and everybody in the world is not to see this escalate into a military confrontation. That will not serve the world well, and I think everybody understands that. The president has all options on the table, but the president’s preference was clearly stated yesterday in his hour and a half conversation with President Putin. President Obama made it clear that we are prepared to work with Russia. We understand that Russia has interests in Crimea. The Ukraine government is prepared to respect the base agreement. Nobody threatened those Russia interests. And we are prepare to stand up against any hooligans, any thuggery, any individual efforts with Russians in order to create stability in Ukraine and allow the people of Ukraine to make their choices for the future.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But do you have any indication at all that President Putin is taking heat (inaudible) as President Obama is saying?


KERRY: Well, they just had the conversation yesterday, and the president invited in to engage with the government. I understand there may have been one phone call. We’re going to continue to engage diplomatically. This is a time for diplomacy, and we will engage diplomatically as much as we can in order to steal this away from the increase in the tension of the level of the crisis. Nobody wants this to spiral into a bad or worse direction. The fact is that there are many options available to Russia, by which Russia can see its interests met. And the most important thing to remember here is, this is not or should not be East-West, Russia-United States, Russia versus Europe. This is about the people of Ukraine, people who stood up against snipers, firing at them from the roofs, who are fighting against the tyranny of having political opposition put in jail. And President Putin I think needs to think carefully about Russia’ real interest here. You know, Russia may be able to invade Crimea, but in the end, Russia will isolate itself, there will be a cost to the economy of Russia, cost to Russian businesses, cost to Russia individuals, and ultimately I think Russia will isolate itself on a global stage that it just spent $60 billion through the Olympics to try to present a different face on. It seems to me that if Russia were to step back and look at where its interests are, we ought to be able to work this out through the diplomatic process. If Russia chooses not to, there will be serious repercussions.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Do those repercussions include the U.S. not going to the G8 summit in Sochi come this summer, sir?

KERRY: It is a distinct possibility. We would hope rather that Russia will choose to engage with us, to work with the government of Ukraine, choose a different direction.

Russia has cooperated with us on the START treaty ,on Afghanistan, on Iran. It ought to be possible to find legitimacy in this particular moment in order to be able to deal in a way that serves the world much better than this choice they’ve made. We’re open to that. We encourage that. President Obama made it clear he prefers that. But the choice is really up to Russia at this point.

-more -

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/week-transcript-john-kerry/story?id=22720806&singlePage=true

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024590090

The attackers evidently think Kerry is "delusional" because he's advocating against invading other countries and working to find a diplomatic solution.

[Cha]

66. They're like lazy predators on what they perceive as

an easy target.

[Number23]

72. Trying to curry favor with the "Cool Kids" that roam these halls wearing leather jackets and pomaded

hair.

[JI7]

86. pretty much what it is

you even got people making fun for the poster for being an ESL speaker.

[freshwest]

101. Why don't they run for office, since they are so expert, so passionate, so right about everything?

[ProSense]

108. .

[Capt. Obvious]

73. This guy?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x866357

[baldguy]

74. Why are you surprised?

There is always a delusional cadre of so-called "Democrats" on DU who channel the worst of the Tea Party to trash Sec Kerry, Pres Obama, Vice Pres Biden, the Democratic leadership in the House and the Senate, and any other Democrat anywhere who has the temerity to tell the truth & deal with the real world in a rational manner.

[clg311]

79. Anybody who supported the war in Iraq deserves to be trashed. NT

[Martin Eden]

84. I went to Cuyahoga County, Ohio in Nov 2004 to help get out the vote for John Kerry

But I didn't vote for him in the Democratic primary. I refuse to support any Democrat in a primary who voted in Oct 2002 to give GW Bush authority to invade Iraq. That includes Joe Biden & Hillary Clinton.

We needed strong Democratic leadership in 2002 to stop the catastrophic and fraudulent march to war in Iraq, and John Kerry was ideally suited for that role. After serving two tours in the most hazardous naval duty in Vietnam he came back home and led the Vietnam Vets against the war. His country really, really needed him again in 2002 and he let us down when it really mattered.

His criticism of Russia for invading a country on "trumped-up charges" was too painfully ironic to be funny.

Don't worry about John Kerry, the man. He's a big boy with plenty of wealth and privilege. He can take any criticism thrown at him.

And I sincerely believe the criticism I have leveled against him in this post is entirely justified.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

90. Because he put a "Kick me" sign on his back when he supported Bush's war?

And, played CYA with his "explanation"?

[woo me with science]

127. Such pathetic irony.

You write an OP about Kerry that deliberately diverts from all discussion of policy. I see only the corporate defense brigade doing that.

Anything to talk about loyalty and personality rather than what our government is actually doing.

[mylye2222]

129. re read op

Im not talking about criticize POLITICAL ACTION but about too often PERSONAL ATTACKS too often written