General Discussion
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(135,823 posts)malaise
(268,930 posts)I can't imagine what they are going through these past four going five days.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)thinking they might be ringing when in fact it was just the phone system ring. It's horrible, all of the mystery, all of the unknowns. It's tragic!
rocktivity
(44,576 posts)have been spotted by now?
Unless it landed in a swamp?
Yesterday I heard they were looking off the southeastern tip of Viet Nam. Now I hear they're searching over the Strait of Malacca, which is WEST of Kuala Lumpur -- completely off course!
rocktivity
malaise
(268,930 posts)no fire no smoke
rocktivity
(44,576 posts)Unless the pilot dumped the fuel in anticipation of a crash landing. Or is an emergency landing in the ocean considered to be the lesser of two evils?
rocktivity
malaise
(268,930 posts)but you're right - at most two hours of fuel were used.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)malaise
(268,930 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)CatWoman
(79,295 posts)smack in the middle of Alligator Alley
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Skittles
(153,150 posts)they would take potshots to scare 'em away so the authorities could continue working
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)This time the search covers an area the size of the Caribbean.
It's going to be hard to find a random hole in the swamp like that in an area that big.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)I knew there would be little left. I also knew it would be hell recovering it.
The gators weren't the only problem. Gawd knows what other creatures joined the fray.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Apparently sudden loss of cabin pressure can cause everybody on the plane to pass out and lose consciousness within seconds, but the plane can still fly on for great distances.
What if this happened and it flew all the way to Antarctica? What if it crashed in the one place where nobody would think about looking?
malaise
(268,930 posts)let alone sharp left
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)causing the plane to veer left and eventually aim South toward Antarctica?
I dunno. It seems highly unlikely, but then again, so is losing a large passenger plane...for 5 days!!
longship
(40,416 posts)All information says that this thing didn't land safely. It is most likely lost at sea. It may take a while to find it.
That's the limit of my speculations.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)I suck at speculation anyway.
That's why I won't quit my day job.
longship
(40,416 posts)So you've got that going for you.
madinmaryland
(64,931 posts)plane going into low earth orbit, where everyone would have passed out from lack of oxygen, and then the plane would have disintegrated and burned up on re-entry.
Oh, and...
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)As the other poster said, the pilots have oxygen masks. Even if they didn't deploy, 30,000 feet will not make you pass out. (Mt. Everest is 30,000 feet, and you can spend a limited time up there without oxygen. There was a plane that lost cabin pressure a few years ago (2012?), and they landed safely. A few people went to the hospital to be checked out, but nobody was seriously hurt.
If you were to pass out, and your knee hit the yoke, autopilot wouldn't allow the yoke to move (and you would be required to be in autopilot at that stage of the flight.)
If you did pass out and hit the yoke, you would be most likely to press it forward, and that would cause the plane to descend. If you did somehow pass out quickly (not likely) your copilot would be able to override you and fly the plane.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)First, the fact that anyone can spend a few minutes at the peak of Everest has more to do with the fact that they are in top physical condition and have been acclimating to high altitudes for a long, long time at base camp before attempting the summit.
Second, when planes lose cabin pressure, the first thing the pilot does it take it down below 10,000 feet. That, and the oxygen masks, is why people make it through a loss of cabin pressure.
30cal
(99 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)I think most aircraft like that are tracked by either radar or transponder.
This whole thing is just crazy, so I'm thinking up crazy scenarios.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)govs. have tracking devices. I think a lot of the tracking is out of control of the pilot? At least it seems radar would have seen the trajectory? And the transponders? I always thought they kept providing a signal pretty much no matter what.
I just don't understand with all of the modern technology and this being a very sophisticated plane how it just vanished. It's all getting so weird to me. If this were just a small craft and/or back years ago, I could see it lost, somehow. But today? I's just really really strange to me.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)The plane I fly, there is basically an on off switch. In other planes it might not be as simple, but you can pull a fuse and turn it off. Its important to give the pilot the ability, in case of fire etc. If there was a short causing an electrical fire, your best option would be to turn it off, then land as quickly as possible.
And radar is ground based. When you are over the ocean, you don't have radar coverage. There are systems in planes to keep track of other planes in your area, but you can hide from that as well, just by being at a different altitude. When I'm at 15,000 feet, TCAS will not show me planes well above me, and well below me. Its not considered relevant to me.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)Otherwise all the planes on the ground would be flooding the air traffic control with their IDs.
When the plane takes off again, check-off list has the pilot turn the transponder back on just before take-off. AFAIK, this is SOP.
longship
(40,416 posts)All the facts point to an airplane in trouble. They normally don't go on to fly on their own anywhere. Unless the pilots get the problem in control, the end result is often a crash.
There are very few facts we know for sure. Speculating beyond the facts gets one into inevitable trouble. I try not to do it, at least not often successfully.
30cal
(99 posts)I heard it mentioned a bunch of times by the MSM with experts but
they won't explain why it wouldn't be working.
Unless the whole plane maybe blew up completely.
I heard by one expert that it should be able to transmit up to 20,000 feet deep in the ocean.
The ocean there is pretty shallow from what was reported.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)can function under all types of conditions. Somehow, to me at least, it seems there are big gaps unexplained that could be explained, for example, the transponders.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Transponder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transponder
"Black box" (Flight Data Recorder): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transponder
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)RKP5637
(67,104 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)noun: speculation; plural noun: speculations
1. the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
former9thward
(31,981 posts)The pilots would not be affected.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)There have been cases where the pilots didn't realize they were not getting oxygen and passed out. They have to know to use the masks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Helios Airways Flight 522
question everything
(47,470 posts)edbermac
(15,938 posts)On October 25, 1999, a month after the American team rallied to win the 1999 Ryder Cup in Brookline, Massachusetts, and four months after his U.S. Open victory at Pinehurst No. 2, Stewart was killed in the depressurization of a Learjet flying from Orlando, Florida, to Dallas, Texas, for the year-ending tournament, The Tour Championship, held at Champions Golf Club in Houston that year. Traveling on a Monday morning, Stewart was planning to stop off in Dallas to discuss building a new home-course for the SMU golf program.[24] The last communication received from the pilots was at 9:27 AM EDT, and the plane made a right turn at 9:30 AM EDT that was probably the result of human input.
At 9:33 AM EDT the pilots did not respond to a call to change radio frequencies, and there was no further contact from the plane. The plane was, apparently, still on autopilot and angled off-course, as observed by several U.S. Air Force (and Air National Guard) F-16 fighter aircraft[25] as it continued its flight over the southern and midwestern United States. The military pilots observed frost or condensation on the windshield (consistent with loss of cabin pressure) which obscured the cockpit, and no motion was visible through the small patch of windshield that was clear.
National Transportation Safety Board investigators later concluded that the plane suffered a loss of cabin pressure and that all on board died of hypoxia. A delay of only a few seconds in donning oxygen masks, coupled with cognitive and motor skill impairment, could have been enough to result in the pilots' incapacitation. The NTSB report showed that the plane had several instances of maintenance work related to cabin pressure in the months leading up to the accident. The NTSB was unable to determine whether they stemmed from a common problem replacements and repairs were documented, but not the pilot discrepancy reports that prompted them or the frequency of such reports. The report gently chides Sunjet Aviation for the possibility that this would have made the problem harder to identify, track and resolve; as well as the fact that in at least one instance the plane was flown with an unauthorized maintenance deferral for cabin pressure problems.
According to a USAF timeline, a series of military planes provided an emergency escort to the stricken Lear, beginning with an F-16 from Eglin Air Force Base, about an hour and twenty minutes (9:33 EDT to 9:52 CDT see NTSB report on the crash) after ground controllers lost contact. The plane continued flying until it ran out of fuel and crashed into a field near Mina, South Dakota, a town ten miles (16 km) west of Aberdeen, after an uncontrolled descent.
longship
(40,416 posts)I don't think anybody has any facts that would tell them where it is. I imagine it's getting daylight soon there, so they'll start again for another day of searching. My speculative opinion is that it's lost at sea. I say that because there's a lot more sea than land there. As it looks like it's crashed, it is most likely to be at sea. Just the odds.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)I am just really interested to see what the truth about this whole mystery will turn out to be. It has been years since a mystery like this, the last one I remember was from at least 5 years ago or longer, an Australian yacht that was found deserted in good sea worthy condition, with three guys who were on board mysteriously disappeared. It was a classic "ghost ship".
malaise
(268,930 posts)It's more than a mystery
Warpy
(111,245 posts)in some godforsaken place when the plane ran low on fuel.
This sort of thing never turns out well.
penultimate
(1,110 posts)It could be half way to the moon for all we know. Those poor people must be so scared.
longship
(40,416 posts)(Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy allusion.)
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,382 posts)That plane may never be found.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I dont know, maybe that helps.
mainer
(12,022 posts)I saw one article that said it could have reached india or china.
politicman
(710 posts)This reminds me of a movie I watched decades ago, it was about a plane that ended up in an alternate dimension.
The story was about how a bunch of passengers fell asleep on the plane and woke up with everyone else missing on the plane. When they landed at an airport, still there was no one else around. The world around them was exactly the same but no people to be seen anywhere.
Anyway, they found some sandwiches and chocolate bars at the airport they landed at but when they went to eat them, the food had no taste whatsoever. The soft drinks had no fizz when they opened them.
That's when they discovered that they were in some alternate dimension where everything was back to front, at the end they had to get back on the plane and take off because the world was collapsing on itself.
To get back to their normal dimension they figured out they had to be asleep, but they needed someone to turn the oxygen back up before they suffocated to death in their sleep. The pilot volunteered.
When they woke they were back in the dimension again, but the pilot has disappeared.
Has anyone heard or watched this movie I'm talking about? If so, do you remember the name of the movie?
penultimate
(1,110 posts)Liberal In Texas
(13,546 posts)politicman
(710 posts)Thanks, you are a legend
politicman
(710 posts)Thanks.
They say that sometimes life imitates art, who knows
Response to politicman (Reply #35)
Liberal In Texas This message was self-deleted by its author.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)guy that kept shredding the paper, and yelling about missing his destination.
Myrina
(12,296 posts)... where a passenger jet went thru a rip in time & ended up 100 years earlier.
lapislzi
(5,762 posts)IIRC, it wasn't the pilot who sacrificed himself. He had to land the plane. It was one of the passengers who had a passing knowledge of physics and aircraft.
Rene
(1,183 posts)No communication. I believe pilots, crew and ALL passengers didn't realize there was any problem.
I'm speculating that their altimeter was not functioning properly and at full throttle they flew directly into the ocean
What if they were slowly losing altitude but the instruments weren't telling them that.
If anything was going on and the people had a few minutes, they would have all tried to make phone calls etc....pilots would have been on radio. No one had a chance to speak a word.
I think that plane drove directly into water on a slight angle and went to the bottom of the ocean.
If comments I read on this thread are true....the ocean is not too too deep in that area and I think cameras photographing the bottom will eventually find the plane and all those people,
If it went in at full power, it probably drove too deep for any attempt to exit.
politicman
(710 posts)A plane flies at over 800km, and if they flew at full throttle into the ocean, it would be the equivalent of the plane flying into concrete.
No matter what angle the plane hit the water, it would break up at that speed and debris would be all over the place.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)Strange happening. I am really sad for all the families.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)TYY
africanadian
(92 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)working - would that not rule out being in water? I keep thinking they crashed on land.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)If the cell phones were working, then the tower they are connecting to could be identifed.
Just because you get a ring does not mean the cell phone is even connected to the network.
malaise
(268,930 posts)Malaysia. I can understand the frustration for the families, but the media don't seem to understand that the authorities simply don't know where the fugg this aircraft went down.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)In Europe for example, or at least the UK, no connection takes you straight through to voicemail - no ring at all.
Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)that explains why the phones are ringing:
http://on.mash.to/1g6nQyg
840high
(17,196 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)The passengers need to work together and beware of the Smoke Monster.