Does anyone here think our federal government is functional at this point?

[MannyGoldstein]

Of, by, and for The People?

It's been seriously lurching for decades, but this latest CIA thing indicates to me that it's off the rails now. Not since Watergate do I remember anything so brazenly contemptuous of Americans.

The IWR vote was horrific, but at least it was a vote. This is a bare-knuckled power grab by the Executive.

Our government is lost.

[Jefferson23]

1. It is as functional as they will allow it to be. n/t

[delrem]

2. Something fundamentally different is in power, that's for certain.

past max-orwellian different.

[bigwillq]

3. Nope

Not by the people, that's for sure.

By the corporations is more like it. By greedy politicians. By out of touch politicians.

Yes, our government is lost.

[hibbing]

48. Functioning perfectly for the 1%

[ProSense]

4. Are you

"Does anyone here think our federal government is functional at this point?"

...really suprised by the actions of the CIA?

"This is a bare-knuckled power grab by the Executive. "

Hyperbole in an attempt to conflate the WH with the CIA.

It's interesting that the most sought-after documents on torture, ones the CIA is desperate to keep from the public, were created/turned over by Leon Panetta.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024654245

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Who does the CIA report to? nt

[ProSense]

6. Did Obama appoint everyone who works for the CIA?

He did appoint Leon Panetta.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024654245

Remember this is about getting to the bottom of torture under the Bush administration.

[MannyGoldstein]

9. There is a right thing to do here.

The President is not doing it.

[ProSense]

10. You really want this to be about Obama don't you?

It isn't.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. No, I want it to be right.

Obama may not be able to do certain things (though i'd like to see him try)... But this he can fix, himself, in a New York minute.

[ProSense]

13. It's still not about Obama. n/t

[pscot]

16. Obama didn't appoint Brennan?

My bad. I coulda sworn...

[ProSense]

19. What does that have to do with the issue at hand? n/t

[Scuba]

21. You're right. It's not about Obama. It's about the Executive Office.

Obama just happens to be the guy who holds that office at the moment.

[ProSense]

25. No,

You're right. It's not about Obama. It's about the Executive Office. Obama just happens to be the guy who holds that office at the moment."

...it's not. It's about the CIA. Stating that it's about the "Executive Office" gives the impression that it's about the WH, especially when you say "Obama happens to be the guy." This is not about Obama. He doesn't run the day-to-day operations of the CIA. Everyone knows the difference between the WH and the CIA.

[Scuba]

59. Well, my mistake. I was under the impression the CIA worked for the Executive Office.

Apparently the CIA works for some shadow government. Or something.

[Skip Intro]

27. You paint Obama as a hapless bystander to his own presidency.

Was / is Obama out of the loop on the DOJ spying? NSA spying also?

I saw the argument you make in another thread yesterday regarding the NSA spying, on us, the full extent of which is still not known. It went something like: Obama doesn't have a magic wand. This doesn't have anything to do with Obama!

I mean, those directly over these agencies were appointed by Obama and report directly to him, and surely, recognize his authority over them. And he's got noting to do with any of it? Come on.

I'm about ready for you to start talking about magic beans and bridges for sale.

[ProSense]

29. No, and no amount of obfuscation is going to make the CIA-Senate feud about Obama. n/t

[Skip Intro]

31. Yeah. And, AP: WH Told Of CIA's Move Against Senate Aids (link)

The CIA's director and its top lawyer told White House attorneys in advance about their plans to file an official criminal complaint accusing Senate Intelligence Committee aides of improperly obtaining secret agency documents, the White House confirmed Wednesday.

Lawyers in the White House counsel's office did not approve the CIA's move to refer its complaint to the Justice Department or provide any advice to the agency, presidential spokesman Jay Carney said.

"There was no comment, there was no weighing in, there was no judgment," Carney said, citing protocol not to interfere in the ongoing inquiries into the matter by the FBI and the CIA's inspector general.
...

Carney's confirmation of the White House's awareness of the CIA's decision deepens the complicated chronology that led the committee head to denounce the CIA and top officials Tuesday for allegedly trying to intimidate and monitor congressional overseers.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/senate-investigation-cia-dogged-controversy-22877459

--------------------------------

The WH wasn't in the dark about this. "No comment" - ? Maybe that's all there is to it as far as the WH goes. Maybe not. As I said, we'll see. The string of abuses of/by the alphabet agencies justifies skepticism, imo.

[ProSense]

32. Yeah, I know:

In May of 2010, the committee staff noticed that [certain] documents that had been provided for the committee’s review were no longer accessible. Staff approached the CIA personnel at the offsite location, who initially denied that documents had been removed. CIA personnel then blamed information technology personnel, who were almost all contractors, for removing the documents themselves without direction or authority. And then the CIA stated that the removal of the documents was ordered by the White House. When the committee approached the White House, the White House denied giving the CIA any such order.

After a series of meetings, I learned that on two occasions, CIA personnel electronically removed committee access to CIA documents after providing them to the committee. This included roughly 870 documents or pages of documents that were removed in February 2010, and secondly roughly another 50 were removed in mid-May 2010.

This was done without the knowledge or approval of committee members or staff, and in violation of our written agreements. Further, this type of behavior would not have been possible had the CIA allowed the committee to conduct the review of documents here in the Senate. In short, this was the exact sort of CIA interference in our investigation that we sought to avoid at the outset.

I went up to the White House to raise this issue with the then-White House Counsel, in May 2010. He recognized the severity of the situation, and the grave implications of Executive Branch personnel interfering with an official congressional investigation. The matter was resolved with a renewed commitment from the White House Counsel, and the CIA, that there would be no further unauthorized access to the committee’s network or removal of access to CIA documents already provided to the committee.

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=db84e844-01bb-4eb6-b318-31486374a895

"these Panetta Review documents were in agreement with the committee’s findings."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024654245

[phleshdef]

7. Shit like this has always gone on, its as functional as its ever been.

[jsr]

8. This proves the intelligence-security industrial complex is first among equals of our branches

of government.

[BeyondGeography]

11. Have we been invaded?

No SS checks going out anymore? Medicare shut down?

[PhilSays]

15. Nope.

How many funerals has America had since its inception?

This tired old line has been repeated throughout history.

And we always turn out just fine.

[golfguru]

51. Yes, invaded by millions entering illegally

Just came back from tour of south-east Asia.
WOW! Talk about being strict with illegal immigrants!

[grasswire]

14. Constitutional crisis.

Scary times.

[SamKnause]

17. Functional, not at all !!!!

The U.S. government is a front for the criminal cartel of global corporations.

The U.S. government (all branches) do the bidding of corporations and their CEOs.

The needs and will of the people have been ignored.

Profits for "the owners" of this country is all that matters.

The Supreme Court is out of touch and clueless when it comes to technology.

The Senators and Representatives are corrupt and lazy.

The president is merely a puppet.

NOT FUNCTIONAL !!!!

When you don't hold those with power accountable, corruption is the result !!!!!!!!!!!

Bailouts
Torture
Illegal invasions
Illegal spying
Laundering drug money
Illegal confiscation of private property
War profiteers stealing tax dollars
Insider trading

The list goes on and on.

[Catherina]

22. When corporations can buy and bribe politicians

and their corporate for-profit needs outweigh ours, that list you printed is pretty much where it ends up.

The President is like the president of any corporation and he answers to the a board made up of multibillion dollar transnational corporations that already drew up their 15-year plans. Like any corporation, the interview a few aspirants for the position and if they like them, they bring them back for a second and third round of interviews before sending them on the final round to get a stamp of approval from underlings, in this case the underlings are we the voters.

This is actually where I cut Obama some slack because he didn't write up those 15 year plans. But I refuse to cut any slack to the people defending the contents of those plans instead of exposing them and fighting to take back our government.

Sam

[SamKnause]

30. Hi Catherina

I agree president Obama did not write those 15 year plans.

I am deeply disappointed that he did not look backwards before looking forward.

The Bush administration should have been held accountable. (Torture and illegal invasions are unacceptable) It is too late now. President Obama is now guilty of aiding and abetting and carrying out many of the same policies.

Wall Street should have been prosecuted and the guilty jailed.

President Obama should have found his walking shoes when Wisconsin unions were marching to stop the attacks on hard working Americans.

President Obama's appointees have been a large disappoint.

I think the country was ready for change.

I think after the 2008 elections our momentum and mandate were squandered.

Have a great evening.

[Catherina]

37. I can't argue with anything you wrote. I wish I could but I can't

Sam, you have a great evening too

[truth2power]

58. I think you are correct. n/t

[Catherina]

18. I'll let Jimmy Carter answer: "America no longer has a functioning democracy"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023285237

[jsr]

34. +1

[MannyGoldstein]

36. Who would know better than him? nt

[woo me with science]

54. +1000000 For him to say that....and publicly...

We are in a bad, bad place.

[elleng]

20. May I suggest, as a retired federal government employee,

that most people, citizens (or not,) are simply unaware of what MOST of what our federal government does. It is mundane, works decently, some offices/commissions/departments work better than others. IF this were not the case, we all would indeed be up a creek without a paddle.

I do agree, however, with the basic premise, the political crap has SO intervened as to make the political branches appear dysfunctional, and they are.

[msanthrope]

23. Wait....you said we were lost a year ago.....

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10022582341

Did we get found, and then lost again?

[treestar]

24. Don't file your tax return

If the government is not functional, they won't notice, will they?

[Rex]

41. Congress is pretty screwed up right now with the Tea Party Clowns.

Right now the only branch I see as extremely dysfunctional is Congress.

[Brigid]

26. It's done.

We can't feed or educate our kids, fix our roads, protect our environment, protect workers' rights, or do any of a number of other things a functional country ought to be able to do. So, nope.

[gulliver]

28. Anti-government posts are for Republicans

The government is fine. It works a lot better when we don't have Republicans deliberately monkey-wrenching it, but it's fine.

[Skip Intro]

33. Functional for those in power maybe, not for the people.

Corruption and lies, on both sides. I barely believe any of them anymore.

And if you take a look around, the place seems to be falling apart.

[steve2470]

35. It's functional...

for whom and by whom, is the issue. IF...the CIA did everything that Sen. Feinstein is stating, the federal government ultimately is accountable to the CIA.

[1000words]

38. Hillary 2016

GOTV! Rah, rah ... Go team!

[blkmusclmachine]

39. Any sentient being knows the answer to THAT question ...

[Rex]

40. I think Congress is barely functional.

nt.

[Cali_Democrat]

42. You're just noticing how broken our govt is now?

I mean after witnessing the most dysfunctional Congress the country has seen in our history, courtesy of the GOP, one would have had to come to that conclusion in 2011 when they were sworn in.

You're just realizing now that our federal government is broken?

[functioning_cog]

43. No. I hear USDA stopped inspecting meat

And the treasury stopped issuing checks. National parks are closed. CDC and NIH are asleep.

Nothing works I tell ya!

[woo me with science]

45. And the influx continues...

[Cali_Democrat]

49. What do you mean?

[functioning_cog]

55. I think he means he's tired of all the millennials who are smarter and believe in government

more than the jaded x'ers and aging/conservative/hypocritical boomers.

The millennials keep coming. More of them experiencing political awakening. Some of them becoming very active. And some of them finding DU and ready to argue a more optimistic worldview.

[Fumesucker]

57. Not all boomers are hypocritical

As long as my Social Security check shows up every month and our nice boys in blue keep those damn kids off my lawn everything is fine..

[jtuck004]

44. For about 100 million Americans who have been thrown in the trash to support the wealty, no,

and most likely they, and perhaps their children, will die b4 anything becomes much better for them, if the predictions for the next 20-30 years play out.

[woo me with science]

46. Gotta pay for the torture, the spying, and

the shills.

[jtuck004]

47. Oh yeah, that. :( n/t

[neverforget]

50. It functions very well for the wealthy, MIC, campaign contributors, corporations and the friends of

those in power.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

52. Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.

Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

[lonestarnot]

53. Yes. It sure is sucking wind. Richies have truly fucking fucked us.

[Maedhros]

56. It's fully functional for a nation of consumers.

Not so much for a nation of citizens.

[struggle4progress]

60. I guess you don't remember much of the Reagan or Bush eras

[Enthusiast]

61. Manny, this government is so fucked.