Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in NYC.

[zappaman]

There is currently an outbreak of measles in New York City. Considered eliminated in the United States in 2000, last year saw a record number of outbreaks around the country. It’s only three months into 2014, and not only is the nation’s largest city seeing cases in several boroughs, but other major metropolitan areas are warning of new cases as well.

This is not some inconvenience to be laughed off. Measles is a highly-contagious illness caused by a virus. It usually presents with a combination of rash, fevers, cough and runny nose, as well as characteristic spots in the mouth. Most patients recover after an unpleasant but relatively uneventful period of sickness. Unfortunately, about one patient in every 1,000 develops inflammation of the brain, and one to three cases per 1000 in the United States result in death.

Vaccine-deniers are responsible to the resurgence of once-eliminated illnesses. Their movement is responsible for sickening people. They are to blame for the word “outbreak” appearing in headlines from coast to coast.

Reports from New York note that several people have been hospitalized, and infected patients include infants too young to be vaccinated themselves. Because the American public hasn’t needed to worry much about this once-contained threat in quite some time, most people probably don’t know that measles can kill, or leave children permanently disabled.

We vaccinate people for a reason.

more at the link
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/13/thanks-anti-vaxxers-you-just-brought-back-measles-in-nyc.html

[Rex]

1. I will never understand anti-vaxxers.

Oh look a hammer! Maybe if I hit myself in the head repeatedly, my foot will stop hurting!

[zappaman]

38. For some reason...

that actually makes more sense to me.

[Rex]

43. They are actually starting to HURT other people with their continued ignorance.

I didn't say much when it was just them getting Darwin Awards...but DAMMIT, innocent children's lives are at stake here! Children that should never know such diseases...but thanks to the stubborn few...could possibly end up with brain swelling or death!

To me, it is as bad as the family that lets their baby die because they only believe in God/holistic/alternative medicine!

[HockeyMom]

75. If you are alive today

that means your ancestors never got, or survived, all these diseases, including the 1918 Flu Pandemic. How did they ever manage to survive without vaccines?

Think about it from that perspective.

[Rex]

82. That still is no excuse for NOT getting your children vaccinated TODAY.

Our ancestors had no choice...thankfully we do. To ignore an illness and let it get worse is cruel and unusual punishment imo.

[deafskeptic]

229. In 1966 my parents had no choice.

There was a Rubella epidemic in the 60s and though I was born a year after it ended, my mother had that before I was born. I was born with a profound hearing loss. It could've been worse. I could have been born with heart problems or brain damage. Deafness is my only symptom of Congenital rubella syndrome.

This was 3 years before the Rubella vaccine. I hope it won't come back.

[Sissyk]

85. If someone is not here today,

It could be because the vaccines were not available to their parents and grandparents that did die.

[pipoman]

93. Silly perspective

To dismiss all those who did die...we don't know who isn't here today because of those epidemics...

Maybe they were never exposed. ..maybe they survived with disabilities that didn't include being sterile. ..

[chrisa]

101. That's demonstrably wrong.

They did get these diseases - often. Mortality rates, especially child mortality rates, were high. Vaccines eradicated many nasty diseases including polio and smallpox.

The plague wiped out 1/4 of Europe's populace. With vaccines, it would have been nowhere near that number.

[Crunchy Frog]

134. Actually, plague is handled with antibiotics and not vaccines.

And it's mostly avoided through sanitation and pest control.

I come from an area where plague is endemic in the prairie dog population, and there is no vaccine that anyone gets for it.

[wercal]

139. There is a vaccine for plague

Might not be widely used, but it is used. I got the vaccine in the Army.

[Crunchy Frog]

143. I didn't know that. I guess they vaccinate for all kinds of things in the Army

that they don't in civilian life.

As I said, the plague is endemic in my home state of Colorado. I believe we even get one or two deaths per year from it, but there's not vaccine there that I've ever heard of.

It's my understanding that it's pretty easily cured if you start taking antibiotics shortly after symptoms appear. It's if you wait to long that you're in trouble, which may happen if you don't know that you've been exposed.

I learned something about this because I used to work in wildlife rehab, and was a little paranoid about possible exposure. In practice, very few people ever get close enough to prairie dogs or other infected animals to be at risk, and we don't have the rat infestation problems that they had in Medieval Europe.

[msanthrope]

223. There is a plague vaccine...I am vaccinated due to travel I've done. nt

[Arkana]

124. Not quite getting where you're coming from.

Just because people survived diseases before vaccines is NO reason to not get them now.

[enki23]

133. Awesome Perspective!

<sarcasm>The ancestors of most African Americans survived slavery. Look how many of them there now. There's some perspective for you. At the population level, slavery hardly matters at all!</sarcasm>

In environmental toxicology, one of the big challenges is to discover whether even measured, certain, documented toxic effects actually harm a species at the population level. Many species produce sufficient offspring that they can handle a pretty significant degree of mobidity, mortality, and/or reduced fecundity without significant effects on the population numbers. And hey, if you apply that level of perspective to humans, the same applies.

Genocides don't matter. Wars don't matter. Most diseases don't matter. Parasites don't matter. Food safety doesn't matter. Workplace safety doesn't matter. Intense suffering and anguish doesn't matter. Poor people don't fucking matter. The population will grow regardless. It might even grow faster. If that is the perspective that matters to you, then you can relax in the face of quite a lot of death and suffering. You'd be a fucking asshole with truly fucked up values, but it wouldn't be an invalid perspective if that is where you're standing.

[bowens43]

151. wow. I am speechless.....

[Demoiselle]

155. Actually, my grandfather died in the Flue Pandemic.

But he'd already fathered three children. Many of his relatives died as well.

[Hekate]

178. The 1918 Flu Pandemic killed some 100 million, iirc. Want to take your chances on that?

The Great Influenza, by John Barry, might be of some interest.

One of my college friends had grandparents who came from a Serbian village that was wiped out by it. Her grandma-to-be took to her bed, desperately sick, and when she came to it was to discover that her whole family was dead. Her future husband was a similar survivor and suggested they leave this graveyard for America.

That is another perspective.

[Barack_America]

183. Not to pile on...

...but holy shit, that might be the most callous thing I've ever read on DU. I'm going to guess you didn't give it much thought before posting.

[PCIntern]

202. WTF?

Better start wearing a helmet.

[uppityperson]

213. 50-100 million died. Think of all those who might be alive if those hadn't died. I mean, what?

Wtf?

[d_r]

226. my grandmother almost died in the 1918 flu pandemic

she was in a coma, the Doctor had told her parents that she would die. But she woke up. She was nine and had to re-learn how to walk, talk, everything.

[RKP5637]

227. That, is bizarre! n/t

[Sheepshank]

239. Think of it from the perspective of all those that died or have congential issues

the survivors are not necessarily awed and smug that others were lucky and didn't have to deal with polio, whooping cough small pox etc.

[Ex Lurker]

46. My GF is sort of an anti-vaxxer

She's not adamant about it, but she doesn't like them much. Her kid is past vaccination age, so it's a subject we don't have reason to talk about very much. She's just wary of medicine in general.

[Rex]

47. Well I am wary of hospitals and try to avoid them at all cost.

Medicine I am not so worried about, I take two medications daily so I do believe in Better Living Through Chemistry.

[Madam Mossfern]

65. Her kid is past vaccination age?

What does that mean? Did her kid get vaccinated or not? One is never past vaccination age, especially if one has not been vaccinated at all.

[Ex Lurker]

67. I believe he has been vaccinated nt

[demigoddess]

88. he still needs booster shots as he gets older

booster shots are as necessary as the original. One reason for health coverage.

[HockeyMom]

192. My 35 year old daughter laughed at booster shots

Yes, she got all these vacs, except chicken pox which she had, as a child. "I got more important things to do in my life, than worry or think about booster shots". It can happen to YOU.lol She HAS insurance. Think that will make the majority of adults run out and get booster shots? My daughter has never gotten a flu vac either.

Houston, I think we have a problem. People are not COMPLYING, even when they have health insurance. Maybe we need heath police who will round up all the citizens who refuse to get with the program, in order to protect the health of the fanactics of the country.

[TransitJohn]

166. I'm 42 and just got vaccinated for MMR plus a TDaP

What does "past vaccination age" mean?

[Barack_America]

190. Hopefully, "an adult able to make better choices for his health".

As you note, there is no "past-vaccination age". This year we had ICUs full of children and young adults who didn't get flu vaccines. More than a few died.

I wonder if their parents "didn't trust medicine", but were more than willing to hospitalize their (preventably) ill children when maximally invasive medical treatment was the only thing keeping them alive?

[kestrel91316]

159. It's easy. They are stupid, pigheaded luddites who think they know more medicine than doctors

and more science than scientists.

[Vashta Nerada]

2. Idiots.

[xchrom]

3. du rec.

[uppityperson]

4. Measles in pregnancy, associated with increased stillbirth and miscarriage

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12850161

Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
Measles during pregnancy has deleterious effects on both the perinatal outcome and the mother. However, in-depth knowledge about gestational measles is lacking. The objectives of this study were to describe the clinical course of eight cases of gestational measles and to study the effect of measles and pregnancy on each other.
METHODS:
From late 2000 to early 2001, we experienced a measles outbreak with eight infected pregnant women. The clinical course of each case is described in detail.
RESULT:
Three of the four cases before 24 weeks of gestation ended in spontaneous abortion or stillbirth. The clinical course of the three abortions and stillbirth were singular because of the sudden onset of the abortion and the spontaneous pregnancy termination. In contrast, the four pregnancies after 25 weeks of gestation ended in live-term delivery and two out of the four neonates were diagnosed with congenital measles. There was no maternal death, instead two pneumonia cases and one hemorrhagic shock case.
CONCLUSIONS:
Gestational measles may potentially damage the fetus and is one of the serious complications that can occur during pregnancy.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/235213-overview

Measles virus

Measles virus infection (rubeola) during pregnancy, as with VZV infection, tends to be severe, with pneumonitis predominating. Although it is not known to be teratogenic, rubeola has been associated with spontaneous abortion, premature labor, and low birth weight. Neonates born to mothers with active measles virus infection are at risk of developing neonatal measles, but no congenital syndrome has been described.[17]

[sunnystarr]

11. German measles or rubeola?

shouldn't be confused with regular measles. I'm not sure if the measles outbreak is rubeola or the regular measles which lasts much longer (about 2 weeks) and is more severe. Rubeola usually lasts about 3 days and doesn't cause much sickness but is a real danger to pregnant women. There are vaccines for both.

[uppityperson]

21. Rubeola

[Crunchy Frog]

91. Rubeola IS regular measles.

Rubella is German measles.

Getting your basic terminology correct would help you make your case more effectively.

[Ms. Toad]

102. Rubella causes the infection which is hazardous to fetal development.

You are correct that they should not be confused - and you just did with respect to the one which puts the fetus at risk.

Rubeola is the M in MMR (Mumps, Measles, and Rubella) - and the current outbreak
Rubella is the R in MMR, and is a hazard for a developing fetus.

Contrary to the Rubeola (measles) virus, which is unlikely to harm the fetus, the German measles (rubella) virus is different and can have a negative effect on the fetus. - See more at: http://www.babymed.com/love/measles-rubeola-infection-during-pregnancy-complication#sthash.ps9xqYzY.dpuf

[thereismore]

5. Why exactly are Vaccers scared again? Shouldn't they be protected? nt

[ZombieHorde]

6. Not everyone can be vaccinated. nt

[eggplant]

107. No Pro-vax person ever suggests that everyone must get vaccinated.

It's a strawman argument. Vaxing works when a sufficient %age of the population gets it. It doesn't require 100% vaxing.

People who can't tolerate the vax due to allergies simply don't get it. It is a sufficiently small percentage that it doesn't cause outbreaks. Only when people "choose" to not vax does the herd immunity level drop to a dangerous point, and it is those people who are the direct cause of outbreaks such as these.

[ZombieHorde]

132. Are you agreeing with my post and adding to it,

or offering a rebuttal to my post?

[eggplant]

140. Heh, I was rebutting it...

...but upon further review, I realize I was agreeing with it and rebutting the post above yours.

We seem to be in what I like to call "heated agreement".

Anti-vaxers don't understand that vaccinations don't follow a libertarian model -- that instead there is a requirement that a sufficient percentage of people cooperate and get vaccinated to ensure herd immunity and prevent outbreaks. The level of selfishness involved is really quite astonishing at times.

On the flip side, I was really pleased when my 16 yr old son's doctor recommended he do Gardisil -- it is nice to see this is becoming more mainstream. The funny part is that he misunderstood and thought the three doses had to be done hours apart (instead of months) and he was still willing to do it. He's a sweet kid, even if he's occasionally a bit obtuse. :-D

[ZombieHorde]

145. lol nt

[geek tragedy]

8. google 'herd immunity' and get back to us nt

[thereismore]

15. You do that. Herd immunity should not break down just because a tiny fraction of people doesn't

get the shots. There is something else at play. When 100% of people have to be vaccinated in order for this to work then herd immunity does not exist.

[yawnmaster]

28. wrong...Measles is a highly contagious disease and requires over 90% to be immune (vaccinated)...

for an epidemic to be stopped and to have any chance of eliminating the disease.

It is one of the most contagious of diseases.
If one has a classroom full of non-immune students and one walks in with measles, almost all will contract the disease.
It is transmitted by airborne virus particles.

compare it to small pox in which only about 85% of the population must be immune.

It's a fraction of people not getting shots that drives the population immunity down below 90%.

Measles can be very nasty of a small number of those that catch it. deadly even.
It severely compromises the immune system, leaving the body open for other major infections, such as pneumonia.

[thereismore]

30. Are you saying that less than 90% of people got the measles vaccine?

Because that would be news to me.

[yawnmaster]

40. No, I am saying that when less than (around) 90% are immune, either through exposure...

to the actual virus or by vaccination, then herd immunity breaks down, epidemics are possible, and the virus continues to persist in the population.

[thereismore]

247. So that means that this "epidemic" occured despite the fact that >90% people did

get vaccinated?

[yawnmaster]

248. No, it doesn't mean that at all. eom

[Tess49]

152. Smallpox has been eradicated. Last known case in US was 1949. In the world 1977.

According to the CDC, anyway.

[yawnmaster]

158. Yes it has, because people were vaccinated. Measles eradication is a continuing issue because...

the R0 of measles is much higher than smallpox, which means that a higher percentage of the population needs to be immune before we can even hope for its eradication. And there is a significant population who won't be vaccinated.

Back to smallpox, because they US adopted a vaccination policy in the late 19th century. As early as 1900 there were very very few cases, and the last near the middle of the 20th century. The rest of the world took time to catch up, but because of vaccination, it was eradicated in 1977, as you stated above.

[Hekate]

184. Because vaccination for it was pushed and pushed hard. I got it, and the boosters. Funny story...

I went to a Senior Fair several years ago and had my flu shot while there, administered by a student nurse supervised by one of her teachers from the college. Her teacher pointed to my upper arm and drew her attention to the dime-sized scar. Teacher used me as a learning opportunity, to show what the old smallpox vaccination scar looked like, because she was not going to see that on younger generations.

That scar was intentional. When my brother and I got our first ones, mine "took" -- meaning I got a big red pustule that I had to keep my hands off of. My brother's didn't take on the first try, so he had to go back. The pustule scabbed over and left the scar, evidence of our encounter with the deadly virus. We were born in 1947 and 1948, respectively.

I've seen people with bigger scars. Mom had hers on her thigh, and it was at least as big as a quarter. Some of my university classmates from foreign nations had a series of keloid scars on their upper arms from repeated vaccinations -- and if you think that was disfiguring, just imagine what catching the disease for real would have done to their good looks.

[Tess49]

221. I remember everyone getting their smallpox vaccination when I was a child. I was born in 1949. It

was a rite of passage. I also had rubella and mumps, courtesy of my older brothers.

[jeff47]

115. Herd immunity requires around 90% vaccination.

Actual amount depends on the disease.

Anti-vaxxers make up more than 10% of the population in many areas.

[jamzrockz]

180. Also herd immunity

doesn't say that nobody in the population will ever contract said disease. It just says that with herd immunity threshold reached any outbreak will not lead to a pandemic i.e. it will be contained in small pockets and then die out.

People should actually google Herd immunity before asking other people to google it.

[JoeyT]

16. The answer is in the OP:

Reports from New York note that several people have been hospitalized, and infected patients include infants too young to be vaccinated themselves.

[thereismore]

29. I see the point. Back in the old times people did not visit newborns

right away and did not spread their germs on them. Different era.

[LeftishBrit]

61. Babies got measles in the past; it's not something new.

Quite a few died. The lucky ones were just very sick for a couple of weeks.

[LeftyMom]

87. And people who could afford to do it vacationed in the country all summer to avoid disease.

Funny how much effective medicine changed the culture.

[SheilaT]

108. Interesting point about

visiting. There was also a time when hospitals strictly limited visiting hours, number of visitors at any one time and age limits.

Not sure what it's like elsewhere, but the hospital I work in has visiting hours that start by 9am (I don't work in the morning so I'm not sure) and end at 8pm. Every single evening at 8pm people show up to visit, often with children or infants in tow. Or they'll bring the entire family along to the Emergency Room because one member needs to be seen. Meanwhile, there may be lots of people in the ED waiting room with something infectious. And there will be half a dozen children running around. Or running around in the waiting lobby in back of where I sit. Or running around the ICU waiting room.

[Barack_America]

187. 1st measles vaccination is at 12 mos.

So that's a full year of risk for children due to waning herd immunity.

[NuclearDem]

37. It's not about people who get vaccines versus anti-vaxxers.

It's about people who get vaccinated, anti-vaxxers, and people who aren't vaccinated because they can't afford it or don't know that they should.

Anti-vaxxers put that third group in the most danger.

[Ms. Toad]

103. Also in the third category -

People for whom vaccinations are contraindicated - a group which always gets thrown in under the perjorative label "anti-vaxxers"

[LeftishBrit]

113. I don't think it usually does

Of course, some people can be ignorant; but I think it's well known that (e.g.) people with certain severe allergies, or people with suppressed immunity, may not be able to have some or all vaccinations. Which puts them in still more danger from the ideological anti-vaccinators.

[NuclearDem]

116. I wasn't including them in the third category.

That category is for people who have absolutely no excuse not to get vaccinated but refuse to do so for completely selfish or illogical reasons.

[Mariana]

41. The vaccines don't work for everyone.

No vaccine is 100% effective. Also, some people can't take the vaccine for real medical reasons.

[LostOne4Ever]

50. ^ Bingo! +infinity (nt)

[LeftishBrit]

63. Also babies too young to be vaccinated are at risk.

[Arkana]

127. I'd rather take something that was 99.9999999999% effective

than go "WELP NOT 100% EFFECTIVE NOT GONNA LISTEN TO THAT DOCTOR AND ALL HIS FANCY DOCTOR TALK".

And the reason for this outbreak is not people who are medically unable to get vaccinated. The fear of vaccines has caused a sufficient-enough panic for herd immunity to start thinning.

[Mariana]

147. The poster wondered why vaccinated people are concerned.

That's why. Vaccinated people don't always get immunity. I know, I was one of them. I was vaccinated properly, and a few years later I got measles anyway. This was in 1972. One of my classmates (vaccinated) got it too, and that's where our little epidemic stopped, because everyone else was immune. It was an unvaccinated person, visiting from another state, that brought it.

Anti-vaccine people need to know they are endangering people other than themselves.

[Sheepshank]

240. and for them the herd immunity would be helpful....right?

do this small group make yup 10% of he population? Doubt it, but add to that the anti vaxers, now everyone and especially the group you mention are at a terrible risk.

[Arugula Latte]

135. Why are anti-vaccers more scared of non-proven, theoretical threats than in

real, fatal diseases?

It's lunacy.

[enlightenment]

186. Because they have never seen the result

of real, fatal diseases.

They have never seen an epidemic of measles - or smallpox. They have never seen the result of someone dying from tetanus or typhoid or diphtheria or cholera. They have never watched an infant struggle to breathe between the coughing spasms of pertussis.

They wouldn't recognize an iron lung if it fell on them and they don't associate that wheelchair bound or confined to braces individual they see on the street with polio.

They live in a state of historical ignorance, compounded by anti-intellectualism and easy to google pseudo-science delivered by blond celebutants.

[Hekate]

191. Very, very well articulated analysis. Ignorance kills. nt

[Iggo]

7. Fucking morons. (n/t)

[Archae]

9. And ABC put one of the worst of this bunch on a top-rated show.

Jenny McCarthy is on "The View," I wrote to the show complaining about this.
I was ignored.

[warrant46]

62. McCarthy is a piece of work

Basically an Ignorant Sheep

[Archae]

81. If McCarthy was ignorant, she'd have an excuse.

She's an evangelist against vaccinations, even though all the actual *GASP* science says vaccinations do not cause autism.

Her and that greedy quack Wakefield make tons of $$$ off the faithful and actually ignorant.

[warrant46]

84. +1 Awesome

[sinkingfeeling]

10. We've got 13 cases of mumps on the campus.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

12. My mom, dad and all of us kids had the measles at the same time nt

[thereismore]

27. I had measles, mumps and chicken pox, not at the same time. Lived to tell. nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

32. No mumps here but a friend of ours brought her son over so he could catch the measles from us

I found that extremely bizarre!!! They sat there talking to us all as we scratched up a storm and whined. Her son seemed pretty horrified.

[pipi_k]

66. Measles, mumps,

chicken pox and Hepatitis A.

Also lived to tell, but it wasn't a picnic...

[Spirochete]

142. I almost didn't

had measles when I was small, and got very, very sick.

Mumps and chicken pox were no real big deal, but those measles were nasty.

[stevenleser]

179. You understand the difference between an anecdote and the scientific method, right? nt

[thereismore]

238. Of course. My story is an anecdote but a true one. nt

[Sheepshank]

241. anecdotes are not lies...they are statistically useless. n/t

[thereismore]

244. Perhaps to you. I am not a statistic, so it's not useless to me. nt

[lumpy]

13. Some religious groups believe vaccinations are evil and dangerous.

[SidDithers]

24. Some religious groups are fucking idiots...nt

Sid

[thereismore]

31. What he said. nt

[Warpy]

34. That is why religious exemptions need to go away

If you want to claim that exemption for your little snowflake, then start a religious school for him to go to like the Amish did.

Public schools are breeding grounds for illnesses. Vaccinating against the deadly ones help everybody stay alive.

[pipi_k]

68. They sure are

Public schools are breeding grounds for illnesses.

My poor grandson is in 4th grade and is out of school at least 3 separate times per year with strep throat.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

228. Two points

1. I'm not aware of any religious-based movement to discourage vaccination among Jews, Protestants, Catholics, Muslims, Buddhists, animists, Shintoists, Hinudus or pagans.

2. Your post could just as easily be considered a call to decentralize schools -- which probably won't ameliorate your seeming animosity towards religion.

[Warpy]

233. Two points

1. These churches exist all over the country. No, they're not a broad based movement, although they have certainly been effective at getting out Republican voters.

2. Schools are decentralized already and becoming more so, wingnut parents being so frightened of things they don't understand like all that science stuff that made their brains hurt when they were kids that they're home schooling their their children. The way to cope with that is to standardize curricula, but then you'd likely complain about mind control. Organized antivax religions like the Amish have established their own schools already.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

237. 1. Prove it

2a. If that is the case then the threat of schools being a breeding ground for disease is hereby diminished.

2b. Not so much as "mind control" as science itself is never improved by thought-conformity (or ideological bigotry).

And the world would be pretty boring too.

[Codeine]

35. Some?

[Rex]

45. +1

[SunSeeker]

64. +2

[Vashta Nerada]

73. All*

[SidDithers]

77. Well, I didn't want to be too nasty...

That's just not my style

Sid

[Gore1FL]

111. I'd replace "Some" with "All"

but still an accurate assessment, overall.

[Arkana]

128. Those religious groups need their heads examined.

[functioning_cog]

14. polio is merely reacting to offensive moves made by Big Vax and corporate elites

into its territory

[Xyzse]

17. Oh sh...

Really? That's awful.

[KittyWampus]

18. Conflating those who are not vaccinated with "vaccine deniers" is dishonest.

Last edited Thu Mar 13, 2014, 06:00 PM - Edit history (1)

"Adults who are unsure of their vaccination history can be revaccinated or obtain a blood test to see if they are immune. Several adults who are included in this outbreak thought they had been vaccinated in the past, but lacked documentation."


http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9462035

[Hestia]

162. That happened to me when I entered college as an adult - doctor didn't note in my chart that

I had had measles, but mom sure remembered it because we three older children had it at the same time. I went to the Health Dept. for free and got a MMR, along with a free tetanus update. This was around 1990.

Later, in 2008, I was told by my employer (health education with some access to patients) that if I couldn't prove I had ever had an MMR then I would need to get one. Phoned up the Health Dept. (they keep vax records forever!), faxed it over to me. Quite handy and a great resource of public funds.

===
My issue with the article is the hyperbole of "Children Will Die!" Oh Nos!" Yes, children should be vaccinated; I wasn't aware that measles is that virulent. I personally do not remember having measles (chicken pox yes), and no one wants a child to be sick, but the sun will still rise tomorrow if a child does catch it. Yes, some children may die, which is horrifically sad and no one wants that, which is why the Health Dept.'s in the States do vaccinate in the first place. Those opportunities are there for the parents, low income or not. Free to anyone who walks in cannot be beat.

Public health officials should swoop down on the area, figure out who needs to be vaccinated and do a mass clinic for those who need to be vaccinated, adults included.

I understand that sometimes these outbreak are due to an influx of immigrants who have never been inoculated as a group and spread from there to children who parents didn't inoculate them.

[hedgehog]

19. This is from Ontario, but I think it applies here:

(1)There have been outbreaks of mumps primarily among young adults in Ontario.

(2) Four out of five persons born in Ontario between 1970 and 1991 did not receive the two vaccine shots required and so are not fully
protected against mumps.

(3) Young adults, particularly those in the high school, college and university age groups, are also most at risk as they live and socialize in close proximity.

(4)Young adults are encouraged to get a “catch-up” shot –Measles, Mumps and Rubella (MMR)vaccine.



http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/mumps/docs/mumps_factsheet.pdf

[HockeyMom]

20. Been through 2 measles outbreaks in Florida schools

RELIGIOUS objections. That is nice. While they sent out letters to all staff (in a panic), and students, to get their BOOSTERS, I just sat there. You actually HAD measles? Yep. Nevermind. Life long immunity. No boosters for me. I even worked 1:1 with a boy whose parents objected on religious grounds to all vaccs. I guess I was the perfect person to work with him since I had just about every disease under the sun as child, and survived. BTW, he, and me, never even came down with the flu when all the other kids had it. Never had a flu shot in my entire life either.

It would not surprise me for the CDC to come out and say that those of us who have actually had these diseases, and may be immune ourselves, may actually be CARRIERS of the diseases because we have not been vaccinated against them. That would not surprise me at all. Saw a few posts about Hepatitis C saying people over 50, who haven't been vaccinated against that, may be carriers of it.

Line up, citizens, and get your vaccinations for whatever.

[Warpy]

33. Carriers? NOT POSSIBLE

since the viruses are dead or incapable of replicating.

Sadly, there is no vaccine for Hep C.

Please get some actual facts.

[Hestia]

163. What about Typhoid Mary? She never had but sure as hell spread it. It *can* happen n/t

[Warpy]

185. That was a full blown virus, not a killed or attenuated one

Typhoid Mary never had an immunization, either.

Please get this, immunizations work differently from disease. Few use live viruses and most use just a snip of the coating or DNA to trick the immune system into manufacturing antibodies that prevent the person from dying from the disease.

The only vaccine that I know of that makes people infectious is the oral polio vaccine and it only lasts for a few days and is a problem only in areas where the water is unsafe and there's too little of it for people to wash their hands after they clean a baby's bottom and when the adult has not had the immunization.

While I don't expect civilians to understand the full ins and outs of theory behind vaccination, I am appalled by how much people today have forgotten about what those "usual childhood diseases" represented in terms of childhood disability and death.

[sybylla]

123. That's an idiotic choice.

Per your anecdote...

Get vaccinated and don't suffer the worst diseases on the planet, but suffer the minor ones more frequently.

OR

Don't get vaccinated, suffer the worst diseases on the planet, and if you survive, you'll never catch another measly flu in your life. Of course, there are those pesky lingering aftereffects of some of those worst diseases, but don't worry. Being able to walk, have children and put together cogent thoughts is overrated.

[HockeyMom]

154. I can walk, had children,

and at least according to society at large, can put together cogent thoughts. I HAD measles at 6 months. Not good enough. VACS are your ONLY protection, and BOOSTERS.

Two outbreaks in the actual school I worked in. Unvaccinated child I worked with, no measles. Oh, my. HOW to explain that? He should have been DEAD being exposed to it, and of course me also who was never vaccinated either.

[Barack_America]

193. Good for you! I guess you must be genetically superior!

Sucks for those genetically inferior folks who were killed or permanently disabled by these diseases. Oh well, enough of us survived to keep the human race going.

What really matters is that YOU survived and prospered.

Any other therapies we should discontinue because you never needed them? Like chemotherapy for childhood cancers? NICU treatment?

[HockeyMom]

195. no, you won't give your own bodies a chance

for what even medical science acknowledges as natural immunity.

[Hekate]

199. Sister of a high school classmate of mine got mumps encephalitis and was left blind and crippled...

Sure, her sister was fine. Like me and my brother, altho we were truly miserable. (Our baby sister got everything from us before the age of 18 months and while her health was not broken, it was definitely compromised for the rest of her childhood, but that's another story.)

I met the survivor of mumps encephalitis a couple of times, but she was not in school with the rest of us. She was completely blind, had to wear heavy leg braces and use crutches. We didn't have the MMR vaccine back then, but I'm sure her parents were just thrilled their kids all got to give their natural immune systems a chance.

[dilby]

22. If you are vacinated what do you have to worry about?

They are just killing themselves off no big deal.

[cpwm17]

25. Nope, they are putting many of their fellow citizens at risk:

infants too young to get vaccinated, people that are allergic to vaccinations, and people that the vaccine didn't take – they're all at risk now.

Many of the infected people are the kids of the irresponsible parents – too young to decide on their own to take such a risk.

[Hestia]

164. You know, a friend of mine is quite adamant about adults never touching a child less than 6 months

due to their immune systems not being fully developed. She also states that children should stay inside (outside if backyard) until they are older. Only immediate family should hold the child. There may just be something to that. But mothers do have to work and unless you make a pot load of money, it is practically impossible to have live-in help or a babysitter come to your home.

Back in the old days, they called it a "laying in period" for mother and child. They didn't leave the house for around six months. Just an FYI...

[yawnmaster]

36. One should worry about the social environment. I can be immune and still have concern for others..

allowing the measles virus to maintain its existence when we likely have the ability to eradicate it is foolish.

[Mariana]

44. No vaccine is 100% effective.

Some people get vaccinated and it doesn't work. Some people can't take the vaccines for medical reasons. Very young babies aren't vaccinated.

It is a big deal.

[Marrah_G]

56. Herd immunity

The more people that are not vaccinated, the less chances of breaking the chain of infection when someone contracts it and that exposes newborns and people who cannot be vaccinated to these diseases.

[JCMach1]

69. Vaccines are a good deal less than 100%... no vaxxers create a vector for disease to spread

If everyone was vaccinated= NO VECTOR

They put EVERYONE at risk!

[HockeyMom]

79. Having had the disease gives more immunity than a vaccine

You don't get boosters if you had the full blown disease. A vac is really only partially getting the disease trying to get your immune system to create antibodies. Having the disease and recovering gives "mega antibodies". At least that is what they told me.

[JCMach1]

89. Getting the disease can also kill you dead... I nearly died from Chicken Pox at 22

my liver almost went into failure and I lost almost 70lbs.

[Barack_America]

194. Not to mention the risk of developing awesome shingles!

Which our poor vaccinated children will never get the pleasure of experiencing.

[JCMach1]

235. My mom had a case of shingles that went into Ramsay Hunt Syndrome

nearly lost her hearing and had facial paralysis for almost two years...

[LeftishBrit]

114. No; immunity can go down after having the diseases too

There are quite a few people who've had these diseases more than once.

With regard to whooping cough, immunity after catching the disease possibly lasts a bit longer than immunity after vaccination (though it's hard to control for effects of age of vaccination/illness), but it eventually wanes in both cases. If you've been immunized or had the disease, you are unlikely to catch whooping cough as severely as if you'd never been immunized, but you can still get it as an adult if you haven't had boosters.

Immunity against measles, mumps and rubella is usually lifelong, whether you were vaccinated or caught the disease; though some people in either group can be unlucky. Immunity to measles in particular may not 'take' before the age of a year; which is why children don't get the MMR vaccination till into their second year. My dad got measles at 6 months AND at 5 years, because he was too young the first time to develop proper immunity.

[MNBrewer]

70. I was vaccinated, and I got measles anyway in Jr. High.

[yawnmaster]

90. you are one of the 2 or 3 %. The measles vaccine is very effective. eom

[MNBrewer]

100. From what I remember, there was a cohort to whom that occurred more frequently

around then. It might have been the vaccine batch?

I'm pro-vaccination, btw.

[Barack_America]

181. That's why a booster is now recommended.

I lost immunity completely by my mid-20s and had to repeat the series. The UK also routinely gives teenagers a booster.

If there's any silver lining to the anti-vaccers nonsense it would be the reemergence of some of diseases better informing how we approach our vaccination schedules.

[Mariana]

216. Were you born around 1966?

It happened to me and to one of my classmates, in first grade. No one else in the school got sick, because their vaccines worked.

[MNBrewer]

222. 1965

but I got it in the 8th grade.

[sybylla]

126. Unvaccinated children didn't get a choice.

Their parents made the decision to let them cope with the worst diseases on the planet rather than protect them.

And some vaccines aren't given until children are older, making the youngest in our world the most susceptible.

So it matters to me.

[Arkana]

130. Because I'm not a "Fuck you, got mine" asshole and I care about the welfare

of other people?

Because the adults are having children and exposing them to disease through their own ignorance and stupidity?

Because those children will grow up and have MORE children who are exposed to diseases that should be extinct because of THEIR ignorance and stupidity?

Take your pick.

[Arugula Latte]

137. Uhh, also, it takes awhile for babies/toddlers/kids to get all their vaccinations.

You can't just give a newborn shots in the first hour of life and be done -- surely you get that? You do understand kids have to reach certain ages for certain shots, and before that they're susceptible to potentially fatal diseases?

The selfishness and shortsightedness of anti-vaccers is breathtaking.

[SidDithers]

23. Scientific Materialists think vaccines make good public health policy...

Anti-vax, woo nutcases don't.

I know which one I'm going to listen to.

Sid

[KittyWampus]

48. your ignorance regarding what scientific materialism actually means should be embarrassing.

[fleabiscuit]

106. I assume assumptions about assumptions being made?

LOL

[11 Bravo]

26. I would NOT punch Jenny McCarthy in the snot locker if I met her on the street ...

but I might not intervene if I saw someone else prepare to do so.

[Crunchy Frog]

39. I'm kind of curious as to who was actually spreading measles in NYC.

It's virtually impossible to not vaccinate in NYS, or at least if your kid isn't vaccinated it's pretty much impossible for them to attend any daycare or school.

Have they actually traced where the measles cases originated in NY?

[zappaman]

42. That's an interesting question

I don't know about NY, but this is from the LA Times regarding a recent outbreak here...

Three of the measles patients this year had recently been in the Philippines, where a large outbreak is ongoing; two more had recently traveled to India. Two others had recent contact with travelers.

While two of the measles sufferers had been vaccinated — the immunization confers protection 99% of the time — most had not, officials said. Seven had skipped childhood immunizations because their parents opted them out through California's personal belief exemption law. Two doses of measles vaccine are required for students entering kindergarten in California.

Fewer than 3% of California schoolchildren use the exemption, said Dr. Kathleen Harriman, of the public health department's immunization branch.

Chavez said he was particularly concerned about the patients who had intentionally avoided vaccines.

"A myth persists among many parents that the measles vaccine is dangerous," he said. "These illnesses continue to make a comeback because we have people who refuse to be vaccinated."


http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-measles-20140222,0,1197753.story#ixzz2vsidGvFK

[Crunchy Frog]

144. You would think it would be common sense to get vaccinated

before travelling to a developing country, particularly one that is currently having an outbreak. Even if you didn't get the vaccines as a child, there's nothing stopping you from getting it as an adult.

That is just plain irresponsible of those travellers, and I place a lot of blame on them for putting other people's health at risk.

Really, if you don't believe in vaccines, at least don't travel to those countries where those diseases are endemic.

[jeff47]

117. Could be adults who didn't get boosters

You're supposed to get an MMR booster every 10 years.

[Crunchy Frog]

131. Do they count as "anti-vaxxers"?

Or are they just busy adults who didn't think about it, and probably never got told that it was something they were "supposed" to do?

Are they people that we should be hitting with a lynch mob, since they seem to be spreading a significant amount of disease, or just the parents who choose not to vaccinate their kids?

I never had a doctor talk to me about boosters for anything other than tetanus. I never got any titres checked or boosters until I went through IVF (to check for rubella immunity) and then on entering the healthcare profession. I also never even heard about HepB vax until entering into health care, but I think I'm on the DU shit list because I didn't vaccinate my kids for it until they were two.

Should we be lynching derelict doctors as well? Should being up to date on immunizations be a requirement for the workplace as well as just schools and daycares? It seems like we're losing lots of herd immunity from adults not keeping up with boosters, and not just from unvaccinated kids.

[jeff47]

138. Ah yes, on to the desperate defense.

Do they count as "anti-vaxxers?

You aren't that stupid. Please stop pretending to be.

Are they people that we should be hitting with a lynch mob, since they seem to be spreading a significant amount of disease, or just the parents who choose not to vaccinate their kids?

Yes, they are exactly, 100% like people who know they should be getting vaccinated and chose not to because they've bought the story told by Con Men.

Exactly the same.

I never had a doctor talk to me about boosters for anything other than tetanus.

Then that's a failing on your doctor's part.

I also never even heard about HepB vax until entering into health care, but I think I'm on the DU shit list because I didn't vaccinate my kids for it until they were two.

The vaccine didn't come to market until 1981, and that version was not commonly given because it's more dangerous. The newer, recombinant is safer.

So unless you're in your 20s or younger, it's unlikely you would have received the HepB vaccine in childhood.

As a result, your screaming of victimhood is idiotic.

Should being up to date on immunizations be a requirement for the workplace as well as just schools and daycares?

Yes.

It seems like we're losing lots of herd immunity from adults not keeping up with boosters, and not just from unvaccinated kids.

Depends on the disease. Adults tend to keep a little more space between themselves and non-family-members, resulting in a lower transmission rate. Also some vaccines do not require boosters.

But yes, you are a poor victim, set upon by the vile forces pushing vaccination. Oh, how will you get by?

[Crunchy Frog]

141. You seem to be reading an awful lot into my post that isn't there.

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm presenting myself as a victim. I'm vaccinated and my kids are vaccinated. I don't at all regard myself as a victim, though I'm apparently a victim of multiple derelict doctors who didn't mention booster shots. Also, if the current Hep B vax has been around for 20 years, then I don't understand why I wasn't advised to get it 20 years ago, and still wouldn't be advised to get it even now if I wasn't working in health care.

I do understand that many of the self described "scientific materialists" tend to jump to conclusions with very little evidence, at least from what I've observed of posting habits on DU.

And yes, I really am that stupid. These are questions that I haven't seen anyone addressing. I appreciate your feedback on some of the questions, but don't appreciate the scornful tone and personal attacks. I still don't know what your opinion is on what should be done about the doctors (lots of them apparently) who don't advise adult patients about the advisability of boosters. Some sort of disciplinary measures?

There is kind of a knee jerk, lynch mob mentality on this thread, so I shouldn't be so surpised by your tone. There's more to herds than just immunity.

And no, I won't be responding further to anymore of your posts.

[HockeyMom]

156. Boosters every TEN YEARS?

ROFL Do you seriously think that the majority of adults in this country will be getting boosters for everything under the sun every ten years for the rest of their lives?

[Hippo_Tron]

160. You have a link to that?

I've read nothing suggesting that you should get MMR every 10 years. The only reason to get them is an adult is that they MIGHT work if you didn't get them as a child.

[jeff47]

218. Said the wrong vaccine. Meant DTaP. (nt)

[Hestia]

165. Does that include people who had it? Or is it both groups? Interesting...

[jeff47]

219. Said the wrong vaccine. Meant DTaP. (nt)

[catrose]

49. and later measles patients can develop shingles

which hurts a lot

[SidDithers]

51. I think that's the chicken pox virus, not the measles virus...

Sid

[catrose]

53. you're right. sorry

[Fuddnik]

109. My Father got shingles about four years ago after back surgery.

It's the most painful thing he's ever experienced. And it still keeps coming back.

Me and my wife went out and got vaccinated real quick.

[SidDithers]

110. Yeah, I haven't heard anything good about shingles...

Sid

[Mikeystyle]

52. The very small are paying a heavy price for the very stupid

Hey why listen to Surgeon General, the Centers for Disease Control and every doctor I've ever met----when a dingbat celebrity like Jenny McCarthy thinks vaccines cause autism.

Just because kids show signs of autism at around the same time they get certain vaccines, idiots like her think 2 + 2 = 7. It's like claiming that washing your car makes it rain.

How about the ACTUAL problems (like death) caused by not getting vaccinated?
--the wingnuts have no response.

[sybylla]

129. Exactly!

These children didn't ask to be left alone to fight off the worlds worst diseases.

[defacto7]

54. Major Kick

in the asses of vaccine-deniers.

[Marrah_G]

55. I hope the anti-vaccers never have to know what life was like before vaccines

Vaccines and antibiotics are things that have vastly improved our lives and stopped quite a bit of suffering and death.

Science is a good thing.

Science improves our lives.

~facepalm~

[HockeyMom]

71. That would be me

They didn't exist when I was a child. My Mom told me I was 6 months old when I got Measles and Chicken pox, together. I probably should have died according to science today. Mumps at 2. Don't remember that either. I do remember getting Rubella and Scarlet Fever (no vac even today) in young childhood. Pain and suffering? No, but very, very bad dreams and a lot of sweating that I remember. Not fun being put in a cold water bath filled with ice cubes to break my fever, but 60 plus years later most of that fades.

[lapislzi]

94. Scarlet Fever? Really?

Scarlet fever is a manifestation of a strep infection that is cured with antibiotics. No offense intended, but were you born in the 1800s?

Antibiotics were available in the 50s, IIRC.

Anecdotal evidence that one or more persons survived a lethal disease is absolutely no argument against vaccination.

[HockeyMom]

97. I was given no antibiotics

The doctor told my Mom to just give me aspirin. That was in 1954. In fact my own children in the 1980's were not given antibiotics for strep. Their doctor said back then that antibiotics were over proscribed and children were building up a tolerance to them. Stronger and stronger ones would have to be used.

A lot changed since not just the 1950s, but the 1980's too.

[lapislzi]

99. Aspirin's good for fever but does nothing to treat the (treatable) infection

While I agree that antibiotics are overprescribed in general, strep is one of those simple equations. Strep = penicillin. Or its equivalent. It's one of the few things I WOULD accept a prescription for antibiotics for, for myself or my child.

If infections are becoming antibiotic-resistant (this is a different discussion to the vaccine discussion), it is because parents demand Z-Packs every time a kid has the sniffles. And doctors don't argue. The drug companies certainly don't argue.

Sure, you might survive a strep infection, but why risk the complications when alternatives are available? My grandmother (who WAS born in the 1800s) became deaf due to a childhood strep infection. I would rather not play that kind of roulette with my long-term health.

[HockeyMom]

104. My kids in the 80s got strep a LOT

The doctor started giving them antibioltics but had to keep increasing the strength of them because they did not work after a while. That was what he meant by tolerance. Years ago they used to remove tonsils when that happened, but I know even from when I as a child with a lot of strep, they only do that a last resort.

As others have said, even the vacs don't always work on every person. My husband has had flu vacs every year. Three weeks ago he got the flu. "But I get the damned shot every year". What can I say? No, never had a flu shot ever, and I did not catch it from him, living in the same house, and sleeping with him.

[lapislzi]

105. You raise some good points

Kids in general good health usually go through a couple of periods of being sick repeatedly. I noticed it every time my kid started a new school. New diseases. But I think (I hope) nowadays the medical establishment is wary of calling everything strep, especially now that the culture can be done in a few minutes in the doctors' office. Anecdotally I'm hearing less about it from my co-workers (except the truly hypochondriacal, who are ruining it for the rest of us).

You are right. Vaccines do not always work for every person. My kid got chicken pox a few years after being vaccinated. And vaccines are contra-indicated for some people. But the general public health principle of herd immunity is a sound one, and protects everyone, including the ones who CAN'T be vaccinated.

I never had a flu shot, and I've never had the flu. I don't want either one. The one nasty cold I get a year is enough sick for me, and I hope that my fighting through it without antibiotics (which are worthless for a cold) will make my immunity to other rhinoviruses that much stronger.

I've never had malaria either, but you can bet your boots I take my malaria pills as directed when traveling to a malarial area.

[Orrex]

224. You are the exception who thinks that she proves the rule.

You survived scarlet fever without antibiotics, so "science today" is false.

You have avoided the flu without vaccinations, so "science today" is false.

Your husband has been vaccinated but has contracted the flu, "science today" is false.

You smoke like a chimney but haven't developed cancer, so "science today" is false.

Assuming that your tales are true as told, then your anecdotal experience has blinded you and made you hostile to reality. The fact that you've been lucky enough to avoid these diseases means that you have been lucky enough to avoid these diseases. Your behavior and good luck are no general prescription for health and certainly shouldn't serve as an example for anyone else.

[Sheepshank]

242. I knew a mom (10 yrs ago), who would not give her 5 year old son antibiotics for strep

his illness progressed and he now has serious heart damage.

She won't talk about it, because the guilt is eating her up. She had a chance to stop it, instead she made it worse.

You got lucky and you brag. The reality is that you played a game of chicken with your own kids health, and you act like you are to be contratulated for it.

As for your kids getting strep "A lot"...I'm finally going to call bullshit. Why would you even go to the doctor for your kids with a sore throat and a fever if you were not going to take the meds? If you didn't go to the Dr, how do you know it was strep? I've taken my kids to the Dr completely certain they had strep and it was a viral infection. I find you anectodal crappola getting harder and harder to believe.

[sybylla]

136. I had Scarlet Fever twice in the early 70's

I showed no outward signs of strep so there was no doctor visit until all of a sudden my fever spiked and a red rash popped up all over my skin, my mom rushed me to the doctor. Got antibiotics then, and it kept me from suffering the worst of it.

Second time the nurse told my mom on the phone it isn't possible to get Scarlet Fever twice. It couldn't possibly be what she was seeing. Got in to see the doctor anyway and, lo and behold, the doctor stroked his chin and said, "Yep, that's Scarlet Fever."

It happened the same way for my son. Because I had Scarlet Fever, I knew exactly what he had when it popped up without any other signs of a precursor strep infection.

The difference between now and the pre-antibiotic, pre-tylenol era is that children don't die any more or suffer brain damage from Scarlet Fever. That doesn't mean they don't still get it.

In the previous poster's defense, not everyone could afford a doctor in the first half of the last century, or could manage a run to see a doctor every time someone caught a fever or a sore throat. That's a luxury afforded to people who lived in or near a city with a clinic/hospital. Lots of moms and dads nursed their children's illnesses without the benefit of doctors. Additionally, I would guess there are a few posters in this community who were born before antibiotics became regularly prescribed for these kinds of things in the 40's.

[Crunchy Frog]

146. My brother and I both had scarlet fever when we were 2 and 4.

It started as a strep infection. We were treated with antibiotics, but apparently they weren't effective and the illness progressed to scarlet fever. Eventually the antibiotics worked, and the illness didn't progress to rheumatic fever.

I had strep many times as a child, but that was the only time it didn't clear right up with meds.

I understand that in the days prior to antibiotics, many people died of heart disease in their twenties and thirties because of heart damage sustained when they had rheumatic fever in childhood.

[Hekate]

189. Bully for you. My baby sister's health was badly compromised ....

...from catching everything in one year from her school-age sibs (me and my brother). She's the only one of us who suffered strep, and repeatedly, something I never got until I was in my mid-30s from a co-worker who used my phone after being too devoted to her job to stay home when she was sick.

[tea and oranges]

57. This Is What Gets Me: Those Who Preach Anti-Vax Yet Pay No Taxes

Texas Church Is Center of Measles Outbreak
In Past Two Weeks, 21 Children and Adults Affiliated With Church Have Contracted Contagious Disease

[link:http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324906304579039330555205364|

Welcome to the Technologized Middle Ages.

[loudsue]

58. First of all, your post is flame-bait, and based on hysteria.

I got measles at the age of 42 in Michigan in 1992, and nearly died. I had ALL my vaccinations as a kid, AND I had one kind of measles as a kid. And I STILL got measles (again) as an adult.

There was a measles EPIDEMIC (look it up...google it) in 1991, 1992, that I believe originated in Pennsylvania, and a whole helluva lot of people got measles.

In, I think it was 2006 or 8, there was a measles epidemic in the southeastern US. It doesn't mean people aren't vaccinated. It means measles, like other stuff, has different strains, and mutates just enough to hit a protected person.

[zappaman]

59. Los Angeles

Three of the measles patients this year had recently been in the Philippines, where a large outbreak is ongoing; two more had recently traveled to India. Two others had recent contact with travelers.

While two of the measles sufferers had been vaccinated — the immunization confers protection 99% of the time — most had not, officials said. Seven had skipped childhood immunizations because their parents opted them out through California's personal belief exemption law. Two doses of measles vaccine are required for students entering kindergarten in California.

Fewer than 3% of California schoolchildren use the exemption, said Dr. Kathleen Harriman, of the public health department's immunization branch.

Chavez said he was particularly concerned about the patients who had intentionally avoided vaccines.

"A myth persists among many parents that the measles vaccine is dangerous," he said. "These illnesses continue to make a comeback because we have people who refuse to be vaccinated."


http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-measles-20140222,0,1197753.story#ixzz2vsidGvFK

[loudsue]

80. See? I think that's bullshit. Chaves is helping to cause the hysteria.

3% of people are barely more than would get the measles even though they were vaccinated AND had the measles once, for their own immune systems...better, usually, than a vaccine, even.

[zappaman]

86. Ok

if you say so.

[jeff47]

119. The problem is people think vaccinations are only for children.

The MMR vaccine requires a booster every 10 years. Many adults don't bother to get it.

[dbackjon]

60. The truth is strong in your post

[ColesCountyDem]

72. I find it palpably ironic that many who chide 'climate deniers' won't vaccinate their kids.

The SCIENCE behind both climate change and the effectiveness of vaccines is rock solid, folks!

[riqster]

74. In the Ancestral Argot;

Eedjits. Nay, stupid fookin' eedjits.

[Jamastiene]

76. K&R

Unless we want to see some of the worst incurable diseases spreading like wildlife, vaccinate yer kids, ffs. Whatever you think caused whatever or causes whatever, trust me, losing your kid to a disease that is preventable with vaccinations is MUCH worse.

[HockeyMom]

78. Many states allow Religious objections to vaccinations

Florida is one such state. I have worked in both NY and Florida schools. Never was told about anything in NY, but was in Florida when the boy I worked was not vaccinated because of his parents religioius objections. HIPPA regulations and the right to know. Only staff who knew he wasn't vaccinated were Administration, and staff working DIRECTLY with him, as in me and classroom teacher. No other staff was allowed to know, and NONE of the parents of children in his classroom or in the school. Again, HIPPA.

I do not know WHAT child or children had measles in the school when the outbreak happened. I had no right to know under HIPPA. All I know was that it was not the unvaccinated child I worked directly with. He also did not catch measles. I would have been told that as a "Right to Know".

In a likelyhood, you will NOT be told who started the measles outbreak in NY, at least not by the name of the person. HIPPA and Privacy laws.

[Ratty]

83. Every anti-vaxxer I've ever talked to

Thought 911 was an inside job and believes HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Something about their brains is wired to see conspiracy in everything.

[elias7]

92. Hey, I believe 911 was an inside job and I am vaccinated.

I also know HIV causes AIDS; it's not a matter of belief.

As an aside, I despise the tendency to lump all those who question 911 into the loony category of unreality. Conservatives do the same thing to Liberals, and it's just as condescending.

[Jefferson23]

96. This is so sad, the fear some created and now the blowback. n/t

[Holly_Hobby]

98. Is it possible it mutated? n/t

[former9thward]

112. The article at the link has no information about who is getting measles.

Are they intentional "anti-vaxers"? Are they immigrants from other countries where vaccination rates are not high? A few facts, rather than a rant, would be helpful.

[Gormy Cuss]

118. +1

New York City Investigates Measles Outbreak
By Maggie Fox

New York City health officials said Friday they are investigating an outbreak of measles that’s made at least 16 people sick.

It might be part of a bigger national outbreak linked to the Philippines.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/new-york-city-investigates-measles-outbreak-n47191

[jeff47]

120. The problem is anti-vaxxers break herd immunity.

So whether or not it's anti-vaxxers that are getting sick the most often, anti-vaxxers are breaking herd immunity so that the disease can spread.

And as a specific danger with measles, adults often don't bother to get their boosters. They think of vaccines as something kids get.

The MMR vaccine needs a booster every 10 years. The booster typically given at 15 is usually enforced by schools, so kids get it. There's nothing pushing people to get the next ones at 25, 35, 45....

[former9thward]

122. Do immigrants break herd immunity?

Does every nation have vaccination rates as high as the U.S.? I grew up before the vaccine. Almost everyone got measles. I never did. I have no idea if I ever got the vaccine as an adult. Got a bunch of shots in the military but I don't know what any of them were.

[jeff47]

125. No, because they are not a large enough portion of the population.

Herd immunity breaks down once the vaccination rate falls below about 90%. Unvaccinated immigrants usually do not make up enough of the population to break herd immunity on their own.

I have no idea if I ever got the vaccine as an adult.

Then go get it. Especially if you are 25 or older. It's free or extremely cheap.

[Crunchy Frog]

148. You can get a blood test to check your antibody levels.

The test will show whether or not you're immune. If you're not, then you can go ahead and get the vaccine. You may have gotten sufficient exposure to measles to develop antibodies, even without active infection. That sometimes happens.

[X_Digger]

196. Immigrants who want a visa have to be vaccinated.

http://www.uscis.gov/news/questions-and-answers/vaccination-requirements

(I had a friend have to get his shots as he was applying for change in citizenship status.)

[former9thward]

201. Yes, but we know there are X amount here without a visa.

What the X is nobody really knows.

[HockeyMom]

157. My own kids,

now 30 and 35, never got a measles booster at 15, and certainly not since. You know what? Only hypochondriacs even THINK about such things.

[jeff47]

121. And if you "believe" in vaccines

A reminder: Get your booster shots. You need an MMR booster every 10 years.

The one given at 15 is usually enforced by schools, so most people who were kids in the 80s or later got it. Did you get yours at 25? 35? 45? and so on.

[Crunchy Frog]

150. I got tested for antibody levels.

The test showed that I didn't need a booster. In my experience, that's the way it's usuall handled.

It's also a good idea to get a pertussis booster. It's not as severe in adults as it is in children, and many people mistake it for a cold, but if you expose a baby too young to have been vaccinated, the baby can develop an illness that is life threatening.

Especially get the booster if you know you're going to be around a young infant.

[Sgent]

167. Where are you getting that?

The CDC (in conjunction with the AAFP, AAP, etc.) only recommends 2 doses in a lifetime.

Often OB/GYN's will give a 3rd dose or do a titer due to the horrible effects of having measles during pregnancy, but still...

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/adult/adult-pocket-size.pdf

[jeff47]

217. Doh! Meant DTaP. (nt)

[on point]

149. They should be quarantined and confined to their house until they vaccinate

[Crunchy Frog]

230. Internment camps would be even better.

More centralized, easier to enforce.

[on point]

232. Quarantine is within exsiting health law and practice. Not sure I lke the sound of internment camps

[Chakaconcarne]

153. Interesting conclusions made....

It was the anti-vaxxers that caused this... Couldn't have anything to do with immigration, cultural differences or people not having appropriate documentation, people not having the means or access to or vaccines not working (bad batches happen), immunity not effective in some, improper administration.....all of which are possible.

As far as I am concerned this is all speculation. What do they have to substantiate it? NOTHING!! IF they are looking at trends for their support, then they are no better than the anti-vaxxers who use the trends of increased vaccines in the 70-80"s and the increase in the incidence of autism.

[PowerToThePeople]

161. Couple days ago I took my child in. All vaccinations up to date for 7 more years now. eom

[arcane1]

169. "doesn't protect aganist anything?" WTF are you going on about?

Starting your first post with insults and paranoia. This should go well

[hrmjustin]

171. It's our returning champion.

[arcane1]

172. Wow, that was fast!

MIRT is like Seal Team 6!

[hrmjustin]

173. Yes it is. Sometimes she tries to hide it but other times she doesn't.

[hrmjustin]

170. Oh my!

[Rex]

174. Geez...somebody needs to get a life!

This obsession with DU is beyond sad! Trolls are pathetic creatures.

[hrmjustin]

175. She should learn to give it up. she gets a few posts on a day then she gets nuked.

She needs a new hobby.

[Rex]

176. Seriously, all that effort wasted on this one time ticket called life.

Beyond sad.

[Hekate]

177. Ignorance is no excuse. Ignorance kills.

Too many people have no idea what these diseases can do. Graveyards are full of tiny coffins that testify to the deadliness of "childhood diseases."

I lay some of the blame on our school system (which is us) for not teaching segments on Public Health every year in both history and science classes. There's plenty of blame to go around, though.

Ignorance.

[valerief]

182. I remember getting measles as a kid. I guess they didn't vaccinate for it back then, because

I went through the round of regular vaccinations.

I don't recall being sick. I got to lay on the couch and watch TV all day. Every so often I'd pop up, look in the big mirror hanging over the couch, and think, 'Wow, this is what I'm going to look like as a teenager' (pimples).

Whenever one of us kids got sick, my mother would make an effort for all of us to get sick at the same time (no isolating the sick one). That way, she didn't have to spend so much time taking care of sick kids. Just get 'em all sick and be done with it.

When we were babies, we got the standard teething medicine--booze rubbed on the gums. And when I was toddler having tantrums, a doctor told my mother to just throw cold water on me. She did and said it worked. I'm surprised she didn't put collars around our necks and tie us to trees.

[Barack_America]

188. Pro-vaccination -or- bat-shit crazy. The only two positions on this issue.

Vaccines work, period. The proof is in the disease incidence rates pre and post-vaccination.

There are no lasting common consequences of vaccinations. Period. All studies to date claiming otherwise have been found to be incorrect or fraudulent.

Any one who chooses to believe that "vaccines don't work" or "vaccines hurt kids", might as well believe Jesus rode dinosaurs. The proof for both is on equal footing (I.e. non-existent).

[MillennialDem]

198. What about those of us who get bad reactions to vaccines?

No I'm not talking about the 1 in a million (if they even exist) who get a severe reaction to vaccines I am talking about people who get a reaction to any intramuscular injection. Like me. I am allergic to the oil they prepare most shots in. My arm will get very sore and I will get a large red bump on it and I can't lift it without severe pain for 2-3 weeks!

Thankfully I had most/all of my shots as a kid but I do not get flu shots for this reason.

[Hekate]

200. You can ask your doctor or the Health Dept about alternative preparations. Horse serum...

... used to cause a certain number of people to react; I think my brother was one of them. Other people reacted to the chicken eggs used to prepare some kinds of vaccines. This is a known thing -- there are alternatives.

As for the 1 in a million, sadly they do exist. It's one of the risks public health officials have to take into account when trying to protect many millions.

I remember tetanus boosters give me a sore arm for days, so I sympathize. You can treat yourself with warm packs to disperse the material more rapidly, and aspirin for the inflammation. That might help. But also -- ask someone medical about alternatives.

[MillennialDem]

207. Asked the last doctor who gave me a tetanus shot if there was an alternate

preparation.

Nope.

Asked if she would give me a shot in the leg instead (this causes a far more mild reaction). She refused. Still pissed as hell about that whole incident.

[Hekate]

209. Well crap, I'd be pissed off too. You might check around anyway, go over her head as it were.

Best of luck.

I'm trying to think why the leg would work better, and it might be that since you have to move your leg around all the time it would cause faster dispersal. But you shouldn't have to suffer so much if there's a way around it -- tetanus boosters are important.

[MillennialDem]

210. Thankfully she is not my normal doctor it was after I was injured

I think the leg helps more just because the muscle is so much bigger

[msanthrope]

231. There's a nasal flu vaccine, fyi. nt

[Chakaconcarne]

245. broad swipe..

Flu vaccine is a different animal.

[HockeyMom]

197. Let me give you all a lesson about what natural immunity is all about

Back in the 70s when I was in my 20s, I got a very bad stomach flu. High temperature, vomiting, diahaeera. I could keep nothing down. I let it run it's course, never went to a doctor, and got better. No, I might have DIED!

Ten years later, my husband, 5 year old daughter, and 9 month old daughter came down with exactly the same thing. I was not sick. My older daughter and husband went to the doctor and were given antibiotics. My baby daughter had it to but not to the extreme they did. I was still nursing her. Under a year old, she could not take the meds they did.

Her pediatrician said to stop feeding, and nursing her, and give her Pedialyte. If she did not keep it down, she would have to be hospitalized. She vomited it. Against doctor's orders, I nursed her. She did not vomit the breast milk and went to sleep. I did this against "doctor's orders". I called LeLeche League who gave me the name of another doctor. "YOU are not sick?" "YOU had this flu before". "SHE isn't vomiting when she nurses?" "It sounds to me that you have developed antibodies having had this before". "If she isn't vomiting the breast milk, then NURSE her". "If you have antibodies, you (human vaccine) will pass those on to her in the breast milk". I guess I was a SUPER HUMAN even then according to a DOCTOR 30 years ago. I let her nurse like a newborn for 24 hours and she was fine. Gained back all the weight she lost. I never got sick with all my family having it. NATURAL IMMUNITY from having the disease. Look up what natural immunity is, and how DOCTORS acknowledge that. Oh, no. I might have DIED. Everyone who isn't immunized will DIE.

No, I am stupid, but SUPERWOMAN, and don't know what the hell I am talking about. I should be dead and shut up.

[Hekate]

203. Public Health is all about the numbers, HockeyMom. I applaud your vigor, but not everyone is you.

Public Health policies and practices are all about the vast majorities of other human beings, and how to protect them, and how to prevent epidemics. As I've said many times before, old graveyards are chock full of tiny graves.

For the harsh reality, there's nothing like the book Mrs. Mike (Benedict and Nancy Freedman), published about 1947 and often reprinted since. A novelized biography set a century ago in Calgary, it's really lovely -- love, marriage, landscape. The scene that pierced my heart and stayed forever, though, was Katherine's stroll by the graveyard with a new friend, who pointed to a cluster of graves and said, "That's my first family." Epidemics of diphtheria and such would sweep through, and there were couples who just had to start all over again. So did Mrs. Mike, eventually.

You can also read Mark Twain -- he's got a scene in Connecticut Yankee, I think, of a child sick with the membranous croup (diphtheria), and you know he was calling on his own experiences. Dickens is another who can rip your heart out; little Joe dying of smallpox in Bleak House, for instance. These people knew things we can only imagine, thank God, but disease is cunning and bides its time in small reservoirs.

As for the flu, LOL. As a young person I only got it on average every 5 years. Somewhere after 50 I got the flu, then got bronchitis, then got pneumonia. I figured my lucky days were on the wane, and since then I've made a point of getting the shots. Maybe you're luck will hold forever, but probably not.

[HockeyMom]

204. Me and my family must be part of the SUPER RACE

I am 65. I figure I have lived this long, and that is enough for ME. Don't care, but apparently, STRANGERS do becuase I might kill THEM because I am not toeing the medical line. I will give this much to REPUBLICANS. On the health issues, they are far more live and let live than Dems are.

Born too late. I should have been born in the 1800s, or before.

[Hekate]

208. Just appreciate your personal good luck and realize that not everyone has it, okay?

Last edited Sat Mar 15, 2014, 10:19 PM - Edit history (1)

That's what I call live and let live.

Don't take it so personally, and avoid these threads, because when you participate by trying to denounce sound public health science, people like me think they can educate you about the rest of us -- while meantime you are entrenched in your personal experiences and personal opinions, without taking into account the rest of the world. You're not superhuman, you are just in a minority and public health policy doesn't deal with small segments of the population, they deal with vast numbers.

Republicans and Libertarians, btw, are more like live and let die, just bear that in mind.

[HockeyMom]

211. Fine, but One Size Does Not Fit All

and 5'1", 100 lb., me refuses to become part of that. That is what we Dems are SUPPOSED to be about. Maybe I am in the minority, but we are supposed to be about supporting the minority; whether that is by their race, gender, religion, disability, sexual orientation, SIZE, health conditions, whatever.

It just seems to me we are forgetting this when it comes to health.

[Hekate]

212. Kinda what I said in my last post. Take "yes" for an answer.

[Logical]

220. Says the PRO-Smoking DUer. LOL. nt

[Sheepshank]

243. you do realize that many illnesses can cause fever and vomiting etc?

you are making a lot of assumptions and diagnoses, and I do remember reading those same presumptuous statments being made in 1850. Luckily people survived those too. Many, Many did not.

[Chakaconcarne]

246. see antigenic sin...flu vaccine in particular.

Thanks for posting.

[Warren DeMontague]

205. Ugh.

[rug]

215. Teeny tiny baby coffins.

[avebury]

225. Back in the late 70s I took an Environmental

class in college. One of the topics discussed was population growth rates which was eye opening to say the least. The text book included a chart of various causes of large volumes of deaths including individual wars, total wars, diseases like the bubonic plague. This chart included an estimate that, if a comparable large lost of life event occurred in current times for each of the incidents listed, how long it would take (based upon the human reproduction rates) to replace the volume of lost population. The largest historical loss of life was from the bubonic plague and estimated time to repopulate that loss of life was only 3 months with the human population able to continue to increase for the remaining 9 months of the year. In other words, an event like the bubonic plague would hardly cause a blip in the planet's human population count.

The message learned in the chapter was that, absent some humongous, intentional or unintentional catastrophic event or a change in the way we view human reproduction rates, there is not that much risk in the human race disappearing until we totally outstrip the ability of the planet to sustain us. People live longer and, considering that a huge portion of society is of reproductive age (or has yet to reach reproductive age) any change in reproductive rates will actually take years before it shows any impact on the global population number. The growth of the human population is not something that will stop on a dime.

Viewing the situation from a global, big picture perspective, I just don't get all that concerned if parents choose not to vaccinate their children. No matter what advancements that are made in medicine, nature has a way of creating bigger and nastier bug/diseases. Anti-biotic resistant diseases already exist. Nature may not be as easy to control as we think.

[Shandris]

234. One comment and one question?

If there are people who can't get the vaccine, are we sure its anti-vaxxers who are causing this problem?

And for the actual question -- how is it that the disease was 'eliminated' if its still able to be around? Not vaccinating doesn't make it miraculously show back up does it? Or is 'eliminated' more of a euphemism for 'rare in the wild'?

[Puzzledtraveller]

236. yawn