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Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:44 PM

Lithium batteries my ass

CNN now reporting that U.S. Officials saying Lithium batteries could have brought down the plane. There are redundant methods of communication onboard, including a stand alone SAT phone. None of these methods were used. I do however believe there might have been a fire typr event that was brought under control or contained.

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Arrow 17 replies Author Time Post
Reply Lithium batteries my ass (Original post)
Iwasthere Mar 2014 OP
MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #1
NuclearDem Mar 2014 #2
okaawhatever Mar 2014 #8
sharp_stick Mar 2014 #3
Jackpine Radical Mar 2014 #9
frazzled Mar 2014 #4
Fearless Mar 2014 #6
ecstatic Mar 2014 #5
jeff47 Mar 2014 #11
ecstatic Mar 2014 #13
jeff47 Mar 2014 #14
ecstatic Mar 2014 #15
jeff47 Mar 2014 #16
warrior1 Mar 2014 #7
jsr Mar 2014 #10
rocktivity Mar 2014 #12
FarCenter Mar 2014 #17

Response to Iwasthere (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:47 PM

1. There are international rules around how many lithium batteries can be carried,

 

how they are packaged, and so forth, that should prevent this from happening.

But whether they were enforced or not...

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Response to Iwasthere (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:47 PM

2. Lithium? I don't even know em.

 

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:52 PM

8. +100 nt

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Response to Iwasthere (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:48 PM

3. I'm still leaning toward the

alien laser from Mars.

Those little green bastards are pissed that we've got redneck ATV's running all over their planet flipping over rocks and such so they decided to take down a plane.

Hey, it's an option and CNN will probably cover it in their neverending quest to be the first to be wrong in everything.

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Response to sharp_stick (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:53 PM

9. Nuts. That makes no sense. I think thiss what actually happened:

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Response to Iwasthere (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:48 PM

4. I have a theory

Don't watch or listen to CNN.

That's my theory. Just wait until some real and actual news about this is locked down: theories and speculation are useless. Just go for a walk, or go to sleep and have someone wake you when the mystery is solved.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:49 PM

6. +1

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Response to Iwasthere (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:49 PM

5. With no wreckage, why would they assume this?

It seems super random.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:58 PM

11. Well, they probably have a cargo manafest

And barring that, it isn't that uncommon for people to check devices with lithium batteries, or spare lithium batteries. (Don't do that. Carry them on.)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 04:37 PM

13. Maybe a silly question, but would this threat apply to car trunks

as well??

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:07 PM

14. Partially.

Google "thermal runaway" if you want the gory details, but long-story-short, lithium batteries are stable because of the electronics controlling them. The battery has to be kept in a relatively narrow operating range to be safe. (Narrow compared to other rechargeable battery chemistries)

Something goes wrong with those electronics, and the battery can overheat. That causes the battery to burst and catch fire.

Note that "overheating" here is well beyond the temperature you'd reach in a hot car - you'd need an oven to overheat the battery without an electronic failure or a short.

So yes, it is possible for the battery to malfunction and catch fire in a car's trunk. But since you're on the ground, it's not that dangerous a situation - just stop the car and get away from the fire. Can't really do that on an airplane. So you need to have it as a carry on to avoid an accidental short. If the worst happens, having the battery in the passenger compartment lets the crew respond with fire extinguishers before it's a very big problem.

Btw, don't buy cheap Chinese replacement batteries. They use cheaper chemicals that are more likely to be a problem. They also use lower quality electronics to control the battery.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:13 PM

15. Thanks

Wow. I just bought a cheap lithium replacement battery for my camcorder.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:20 PM

16. It will probably be ok. But I wouldn't charge it unless

someone was awake and relatively nearby - You don't have to watch it charge, just be able to respond to the smoke if something does go wrong.

I actually know someone who's house burned down because they left the laptop plugged in while they were at work. The battery overcharged, burst, and caught fire. That lit the house on fire. Since no one was at home, the fire had engulfed a lot of the house by the time the neighbors noticed.

But the battery cost 1/10th what the OEM replacement battery cost.

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Response to Iwasthere (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:50 PM

7. this is what cnn does

pulling shit out of it's ass 24/7

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Response to Iwasthere (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:53 PM

10. Are they talking about this Emirates flight

http://avherald.com/h?article=4521d5ef&opt=0

Incident: Emirates B773 near Urumqi on Jul 2nd 2012, fire in cargo hold
By Simon Hradecky, created Tuesday, Jul 3rd 2012 19:59Z, last updated Tuesday, Jul 3rd 2012 19:59Z

An Emirates Boeing 777-300, registration A6-EGQ performing flight EK-308 from Dubai (United Arab Emirates) to Beijing (China) with 270 people on board, was enroute near Urumqi (China) when the crew received an aft cargo fire indication and activated the cargo fire suppression system. The crew diverted to Urumqi for a safe landing, emergency services found a number of burned bags in the aft cargo hold, the fire had been extinguished by the cargo fire suppression system in flight. No injuries occurred.

Urumqi airport reported a few pieces of luggage were damage by fire, a particular suitcase containing a lithium battery was identified as source of the fire, evidence suggests the lithium battery ignited as result of thermal runaway, the cause of the ignition however needs to be confirmed.

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Response to Iwasthere (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 02:58 PM

12. Maybe they've got them confused with diithium crystals

Last edited Fri Mar 14, 2014, 03:53 PM - Edit history (1)




rocktivity

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 05:21 PM

17. Turn west captain -- I canna make 'er go north.

 

How would a lithium battery fire in the cargo hold make a plane turn west, then southwest, then northwest?

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