Why does anyone think the CIA and NSA are out of control?

[MannyGoldstein]

Look at the people placed in charge of these entities: Brennan, Alexander, and Clapper.

No intelligent person could put these people in charge of our intelligence community unless they desired the very behavior we see today. These folks are not nuanced intellectuals who anguish with Constitutional limits.

They are working as desired and expected.

[ProSense]

1. Here:

The CIA is out of line

By Eugene Robinson

We now have even more proof that our burgeoning intelligence agencies, which were given unprecedented latitude to wage war against terrorists, are dangerously out of control...Months of stunning revelations about the National Security Agency’s massive domestic surveillance, thanks to fugitive whistle-blower Edward Snowden, should have been more than enough. But this week, one of the intelligence community’s staunchest defenders in Congress took to the Senate floor to announce that even she has had it up to here.

Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who heads the Senate intelligence committee, trained her fury on the CIA, which has waged a five-year campaign of bureaucratic guerrilla warfare to keep the committee from doing a crucial job: fully investigating the torture, secret detention and other appalling excesses committed under President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney.

<...>

President Obama, to his credit, took immediate measures at the beginning of his first term to outlaw torture, secret overseas detention and other outrageous practices sanctioned by Bush and Cheney. But Obama decided to take a forward-looking approach — and showed no enthusiasm, frankly, for a comprehensive public accounting of past excesses.

<...>

Feinstein’s committee properly decided that the torture and harsh detention had been egregious enough to warrant “an expansive and full review.” The CIA had already destroyed the only video recordings of its waterboarding sessions, but there were “literally millions of pages” of cables, e-mails, memos and other documents that the committee wanted to examine...Obama’s first CIA director, Leon Panetta, insisted that the committee’s staff examine the documents — after they had been redacted — at a secure location in Virginia. Feinstein alleges that the CIA improperly searched the committee’s computers at this secure site. Files on those computers, she charges, have mysteriously disappeared.

- more -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-the-cia-is-out-of-line/2014/03/13/f40b10f0-aae7-11e3-adbc-888c8010c799_story.html

Charles Pierce: Obama, The CIA, And The Limits Of Conciliation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024662567

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Good point!

Who does the CIA report to?

[ProSense]

6. "Who does the CIA report to?"

Obama: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024662090

[zeemike]

12. Or the other question, who reports to the CIA?

When one can lie to congress and not be punished you know what the chain of command is.

[Fuddnik]

11. Looks like we're all terrorists now.

[newfie11]

2. Agreed! Nt

[bemildred]

3. Either that or they are the boss, take your pick. nt

[sibelian]

4. Thank you, dear Manfred.

Thank you, thank you.

[Autumn]

36. sibelian

I will miss you.

[sibelian]

37. And I you, Autumn...

though our paths barely crossed, I suspect we are of similar nature.

[BeyondGeography]

7. Woe is us, woe, woe is us

Btw, google "Viktor Shenderovich video" and see what happens to people in Snowden's new home when they poke fun at Putin.

Or call me back the next time American spies honey trap a critic of the President and get a video of him masturbating on national TV.

[deurbano]

18. Having a stage 2 pressure ulcer is much "better" than stage 4 (in terms of quality of life and

threat to life), but the stage 2 ulcer will deteriorate to a stage 4 without corrective measures. (And it is much easier to prevent stage 4 than to recover from it.)

[MannyGoldstein]

20. "America! Better than Russia!™"

That's what we've come to?

[BeyondGeography]

22. There's out of control and there's out of control

Can you tell the difference?

[MannyGoldstein]

23. And there's not out of control

Of course there are gradations.

[840high]

29. You seemed satisfied we're

less evil than Russia. Evil is evil.

[BeyondGeography]

30. We're more greedy than anything

Which can make us less cruel than people who are more motivated by power and authority. The NSA is often very inept, but, along with the requisite private sector profiteers, they have built themselves a fabulous money pit.

Now many on this board would dispute your statement. I was addressing them.

[Autumn]

8. Well I do think a really cool Star Trek bridge for an asshole IS somewhat out of control.

The rest is just about par for the course.

[baldguy]

9. Out of control: no. Wasting hundreds of billions of our tax dollars on useless minutia: yes.

The people staffing these agencies not all nuanced intellectuals who anguish over legalities - though some of them are. They're not monolithic hive-minded entities staffed by uber-mensch clones, either.

[L0oniX]

10. Oh so you're going to limit that to just the CIA and NSA?

What isn't out of control, but then I am sure there are people who are in control ...we just don't see them ...and I don't mean Satan.

[randome]

13. As much as you 'campaign' against the Democratic party, who would you want to be in charge?

If former hold-overs from a Republican administration aren't good enough for you because of their previous affiliation, who is?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[MannyGoldstein]

14. Putting words in my mouth and assuming motives.

Please stop.

[Cali_Democrat]

27. Well you did say in another post that you'd rather...

...overturn the election of Obama than the election of Reagan.

I would say that's campaigning against the Democratic Party.

[MannyGoldstein]

31. Feel free to provide a link to that post.

For context.

[Cali_Democrat]

34. Sure...you also said McCain's policies wouldn't be different than Obama's

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x761367

[ProSense]

41. Wow!

Would McCain's policies be much different? I don't see how. In addition, at least we'd have a chance for bringing in people with Democratic ideals in 2010 and 2012 - 2010 was a disaster, and 2012 is unlikely to see a good outcome at the Presidential level.

Translation: At least if McCain won, "we'd have a chance for bringing in people with Democratic ideals in 2010 and 2012" and Obama is "unlikely" to win in 2012.

Now the poster is dispensing fundraising advice to the President:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024669680
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024669680#post2

[Nuclear Unicorn]

15. I blame myself.

They were so busy reading my sexts to my husband they were too distracted to stay on top of things like the Syria and Ukraine crises.

I'm a baaaaad girl.

[MannyGoldstein]

19. I should be the judge of that

Please forward said communications via secure DU mail for detailed analysis.

The fate of the free world depends on your cooperation.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

38. Oh, I'm sure it's nothing you'd be interested in.

It just involves rubber gloves and a mouthful of ice chips.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Who put the likes of Brennan, Alexander, and Clapper in charge? Why haven't they been fired?

[rhett o rick]

17. It's very easy to understand that the Intell Agencies were out of control under Pres George Bush.

As far as I can see Pres Obama has done nothing to change that. In fact appointing Clapper, Alexander, and Brennan guarantees that there will be no changes. These agencies have almost an unlimited budget and all the programs still in place for the last decade. Congress isnt providing proper oversight. And yet there are those supposedly "politically liberal" DU posters that openly say that security is more important than liberty. Too many conservatives under our tent.

[jsr]

21. We must respect the separation of powers between government and the intelligence agencies

[RufusTFirefly]

24. I get all misty and nostalgic when I think of Michael Hayden....

A character straight out of Alice in Wonderland who, even when asked repeatedly, absolutely refused to admit that the Fourth Amendment contains the phrase "probable cause."

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

(Whoa! How did that get in there?!)

[jsr]

25. Pay no attention to the four meddlesome words

The founding fathers accidentally wrote them.

[Autumn]

26. Ignore that crap. They were racists assholes too.

Never mind the fact that for that time they were enlightened men. For that time.

[pragmatic_dem]

28. America is undergoing a metadata-morphosis from butterfly to cockroach -nt

[MannyGoldstein]

32. It got in there by accident.

No worries. CIA hackers are getting rid of that inconvenient phrase.

[RufusTFirefly]

35. Trust us, we're experts!

"Believe me, if there’s any amendment to the Constitution that employees of the National Security Agency are familiar with it’s the Fourth." -- noted Constitutional scholar, Gen. Michael Hayden


I am confident that Minitrue is working to reconcile the discrepancy.

[vlakitti]

33. So was Ms. Feinstein's Senate Performance

the action of a "whistle-blower" -- or a traitor?

Feinstein owes Mr. Snowden a really big apology and retraction, since probably none of this would ever have seen the light of day or had much of an impact had he not changed the climate about spooks.

[Enthusiast]

39. Manny, that is the most disturbing thing about this surveillance.

Now we know. It's an UGLY truth.

[reformist2]

40. I especially love the puppet governments they set up in Iraq, Libya, Ukraine, etc.