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MADem

(135,425 posts)
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 12:38 PM Mar 2014

How The Truth Is Made At Russia Today

If this doesn't open the eyes of the RT cheerleading squad, nothing will:


WASHINGTON — Staci Bivens knew something was seriously wrong when her bosses at Russia Today asked her to put together a story alleging that Germany — Europe’s economic powerhouse — was a failed state.
“It was me and two managers and they had already discussed what they wanted,” Bivens, an American who worked in RT’s Moscow headquarters from 2009 through 2011, said of a meeting she’d had to discuss the segment before a planned reporting trip to Germany. “They called me in and it was really surreal. One of the managers said, ‘The story is that the West is failing, Germany is a failed state.’”
Bivens, who had spent time in Germany, told the managers the story wasn’t true — the term “failed state” is reserved for countries that fail to provide basic government services, like Somalia or Congo, not for economically advanced, industrialized nations like Germany. They insisted. Bivens refused. RT flew a crew to Germany ahead of Bivens, who was flown in later to do a few standups and interviews about racism in Germany. It was the beginning of the end of her RT career.
“At that point I’d been there for a little bit and I’d had enough of the insanity,” Bivens said. She stayed until the end of her contract in 2011 and didn’t make an effort to renew it....Soon after joining the network, the current and former employees said, they realized they were not covering news, but producing Russian propaganda. Some employees go in clear-eyed, looking for the experience above all else. Others don’t realize what RT really wants until they’re already there. Still others are chosen for already having displayed views amenable to the Kremlin. Anti-American language is injected into TV scripts by editors, and stories that don’t toe the editorial line regularly get killed.
....


And yet, there are people who, doe-eyed and obtuse, can't understand why this shitstain rag of a media outlet isn't a valid LBN source...! The mind boggles!


What do you do once you've completely sold yourself for craven lucre, trashed your integrity, prostituted your reputation? Any "real" job one might get after that "soul selling" experience would always be open to criticism.
62 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How The Truth Is Made At Russia Today (Original Post) MADem Mar 2014 OP
I started thinking they were ok when Thom Hartmann was on it... Cooley Hurd Mar 2014 #1
Could you say the reporters were outFOXed? Bad Thoughts Mar 2014 #2
They're so horrible they almost make Faux look balanced...if not fair. MADem Mar 2014 #6
They were OK until around 2011-2012. That is my experience as well. After that, things went south. stevenleser Mar 2014 #3
I watch it if I want to see Putin's side of the story. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #4
It's not even his opinion. It's his calculated attempt to move functioning_cog Mar 2014 #8
Propaganda at its finest. He can only move UP if his "enemies"--USA, Germany, etc.--move DOWN. nt MADem Mar 2014 #12
It is no different from fox. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #14
Which I also don't watch functioning_cog Mar 2014 #18
I don't either. It's like watching paint dry. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #19
She is so young jakeXT Mar 2014 #5
That looks like an interesting documentary, I will bookmark it. MADem Mar 2014 #15
Thanks for shining the light. functioning_cog Mar 2014 #7
Someone needs to--the Putin cuddling is getting absurd. MADem Mar 2014 #16
BTW where.... wildbilln864 Mar 2014 #9
Not from Pootie Poot's RT, that's for sure! MADem Mar 2014 #11
well we'd all... wildbilln864 Mar 2014 #13
Do you read DU? You can start there! Plenty of resources for you. MADem Mar 2014 #17
Read! Read lots! Read foreign languages! Read critically! eom. Bad Thoughts Mar 2014 #20
But if you waste your time on propaganda, your brain atrophies. nt MADem Mar 2014 #24
By no means. Igel Mar 2014 #33
That's a lot of effort to go through with RT, though. MADem Mar 2014 #35
thanks & sorry for sounding testy... wildbilln864 Mar 2014 #45
Read all sources, but read them critically. You shouldn't read Infowars for 'truth' msanthrope Mar 2014 #28
The UN Security Council vote today affirmed what I believed already steve2470 Mar 2014 #10
Isolated, indeed--even China couldn't bring themselves to pair up with 'em...as they so often do. MADem Mar 2014 #22
Yup. Igel Mar 2014 #39
I think using RT as a source should be mocked without exception. nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #21
I have to agree--it's garbage from a dictator. nt MADem Mar 2014 #23
Those who post it generally try to claim that those mocking are 'afraid' to engage on msanthrope Mar 2014 #26
Yes....and of course, no one wants to deal with the reality. It's inconvenient to their narrative. MADem Mar 2014 #40
that's my policy. pointing out that it's an rt.com story is all that is needed, really nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #43
Depends what you're using it as a source for. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #47
Indeed...but posting it for its 'truth' should be savaged. nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #59
It's like using foxnews as a source on Pres Obama.. Cha Mar 2014 #55
DU rec... SidDithers Mar 2014 #25
+1 nt MADem Mar 2014 #31
RT is like most heavily agitprop sources. Igel Mar 2014 #41
truthfully kardonb Mar 2014 #27
And McCain fell for it jakeXT Mar 2014 #30
Wow, almost as bad American news propaganda. Of course, American news propaganda valerief Mar 2014 #29
Whatever gets you through the night... nt MADem Mar 2014 #32
+100 debunkthis Mar 2014 #38
Russia: Media black-out ahead of disputed Crimea referendum ProSense Mar 2014 #34
+1 nt MADem Mar 2014 #36
LOL, meanwhile in America, our propaganda ban is rescinded and reporters can be forced to lie: grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #37
You seem to have completely missed the point cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #44
+1,000 !!!! nt MADem Mar 2014 #46
Good post... Violet_Crumble Mar 2014 #48
It means whatever info you're making your decision on... Say to side with the US on Crimea, grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #62
kick & recommended. William769 Mar 2014 #42
Kick for the RT fans...nt SidDithers Mar 2014 #49
BAM! Behind the Aegis Mar 2014 #50
That was my initial impression when I read the thing, too! nt MADem Mar 2014 #51
How did U.S. media stand up to WMD claims in Iraq? ozone_man Mar 2014 #52
Agreed that our media stinks and people should go to many sources for news. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #53
Yeah, two wrongs definitely don't make a right. I think that's why a lot of Cha Mar 2014 #57
K&R Proves better than anything that the vast majority of the folks here running around calling Number23 Mar 2014 #54
Thank you for the article.. From your link, MADem.. Cha Mar 2014 #56
KICK Cha Mar 2014 #58
Here's a really good piece: ProSense Mar 2014 #60
k&r nt arely staircase Mar 2014 #61
 

Cooley Hurd

(26,877 posts)
1. I started thinking they were ok when Thom Hartmann was on it...
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 12:40 PM
Mar 2014

...but then I started hearing otherwise about it. Is he still on it? If so, he really should resign.

Bad Thoughts

(2,522 posts)
2. Could you say the reporters were outFOXed?
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 12:40 PM
Mar 2014

I fin too many similarities between the two news organizations.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
6. They're so horrible they almost make Faux look balanced...if not fair.
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 12:59 PM
Mar 2014

Truth is, they're both insane media outlets, the difference is, at Faux the reporters are mature, raddled, soulless adults who know full well they are selling their souls for ideological reasons, at RT, they hire pretty children who don't realize that they're being seduced, brainwashed, and molded into little tools of the Russian government.

It's like prostitution--only prostitution, exploitative and sordid as it is, has more dignity.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
3. They were OK until around 2011-2012. That is my experience as well. After that, things went south.
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 12:54 PM
Mar 2014

The anti-American propaganda became completely oppressive after that point.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
15. That looks like an interesting documentary, I will bookmark it.
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 01:19 PM
Mar 2014

That said, there's a difference, both stylistically and substantively, between "spin" and outright propaganda. Spin is a bit of a lean (it's not a meagre meal, it's a diet plate), propaganda is outright lying and bigfooting (this is a superb, rich dinner, of the sort that is served to Kings and Queens!).

MADem

(135,425 posts)
16. Someone needs to--the Putin cuddling is getting absurd.
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 01:21 PM
Mar 2014

It started with the "nothing to see here" gay hatred arguments, and it's continued with the "nothing to see here, those aren't our troops occupying the Ukraine" bullshit with the Crimean situation.

I wonder if these "supporters" are paid or dumb. It's got to be one or the other.

 

wildbilln864

(13,382 posts)
13. well we'd all...
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 01:14 PM
Mar 2014

like to be as informed as you think you are so please tell us. Is it a secret?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
17. Do you read DU? You can start there! Plenty of resources for you.
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 01:24 PM
Mar 2014

But hmmmm.....by that tone, I think someone's a bit testy.



RT sucks, you know. And if you don't know that, it's probably a good idea that you learn it.

Igel

(35,300 posts)
33. By no means.
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 03:21 PM
Mar 2014

But you have to read it understanding that it's sharply biased and try to tease out where the bias is and where reality is. Even the biases are still information, but sort of "meta-information."

My favorite article of all times was an Izvestiya (IIRC) article that bleated proudly about tractor production in the USSR. It glowed with praise for how many tractors were produced, constituting a sharp increase in production. It took a few seconds' work to realize that it meant they were producing one tractor per year for millions of hectares. Most farmland was worked by very old tractors kept running by sheer ingenuity or by horse- or oxen-pulled ploughs. (You'd get the same "through the censor" jabs in a story or novella praising the diligent and prosperous sovkhoz workers for their ability to keep the same 35-year-old tractor going; an intelligent reader would stop and think, "Why did they need to keep that piece of der'mo working after 35 years? Perhaps because there's a massive tractor shortage?&quot


You also get to see what the low-information reader will accept as truth. So when I read Russian news stories about rampant lawlessness, gangs in Kyiv, massive oppression of Russians, how people are being killed in the streets (with the tacit assumption that fascist Ukrainians are killing Russians, not the other way around), etc., etc. it helps inform my expectations. Russians in Crimea will whole-heartedly vote to keep the columns of Ukrainians from entering Crimea and butchering them. Even if there are no actual columns of Ukrainians or Russians being butchered. They'll vote their propaganda-induced fears.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
35. That's a lot of effort to go through with RT, though.
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 03:31 PM
Mar 2014

And putting that junk up here--except to point, mock and deride it; or deconstruct it like the garbage that it is--I feel brings down this site. It is crafted for ideologues and very stupid low information readers, absolutely, and most people at DU aren't quite that dumb. The ones championing that crap aren't dumb either, even though they're likely not pure of heart or interested in the truth. Some are in love with Snowden and/or Greenwald, and they feel that any criticism of GG's and ES's "bestie" is somehow disloyal to their dreamboats. It's terribly warped.

I do take your point from an historical and analysis-laden perspective, but from a "What's the latest news?" perspective, I think that RT material needs to have a BIOHAZARD sticker on it, because it's utter shit!

 

wildbilln864

(13,382 posts)
45. thanks & sorry for sounding testy...
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 06:25 PM
Mar 2014

I do get my info from a variety of places also. None are to be trusted 100 % IMO.
Just was wondering if you had a preferred source.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
28. Read all sources, but read them critically. You shouldn't read Infowars for 'truth'
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 01:45 PM
Mar 2014

but for insight into what's scaring your typical pararnoid teabagger. What's on the front page of CNN isn't to be taken as pablum...but to be reflected on.

Read primary sources...if it's an article about a case or a law...read the case or law.

It took me a while to come to viewpoint on the NSA spying, because I wanted to make sure I had taken in all views. That took a lot of reading and time.

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
10. The UN Security Council vote today affirmed what I believed already
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 01:12 PM
Mar 2014

The only member of the UNSC to vote against the draft resolution was the Russian Federation. China abstained.

I suppose one could claim some kind of conspiracy, but I would want proof of that conspiracy. Russia is alone against the world. I can acknowledge they have concerns about violence against pro-Russian people and about the fascists in and around the Ukraine government. However, I have no truck with their methods.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26595776 (the UNSC vote)

MADem

(135,425 posts)
22. Isolated, indeed--even China couldn't bring themselves to pair up with 'em...as they so often do.
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 01:28 PM
Mar 2014
China and Russia usually work in tandem at the Security Council.

But Beijing is sensitive about issues of territorial integrity, because of fears it could send a message to its own restive regions of Tibet and Xinjiang, our correspondent says.

Igel

(35,300 posts)
39. Yup.
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 03:42 PM
Mar 2014

Can't side with Russia. Bad precedent: Tibet, Uighur region, little areas down in the Himalayas, in the far west, in the deep south. Also bad economics.

Can't side against Russia. Bad precedent: Taiwan and reunification under "China United". Yet more bad economics.

Hobson's choice. The best choice is no choice. Abstention.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
26. Those who post it generally try to claim that those mocking are 'afraid' to engage on
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 01:38 PM
Mar 2014

the 'substance' of the article...I think it's a waste of time to entertain the 'substance' bullshit....RT has as much substance as WND.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
40. Yes....and of course, no one wants to deal with the reality. It's inconvenient to their narrative.
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 03:47 PM
Mar 2014

Never mind that net censorship, nothing to see here, move along...!


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024669215

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
47. Depends what you're using it as a source for.
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 07:48 PM
Mar 2014

I think that knowing what the Russian government wants us to think is sometimes worthwhile.

Cha

(297,154 posts)
55. It's like using foxnews as a source on Pres Obama..
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 02:17 AM
Mar 2014

It's disallowed in LBN but flows freely in GD via diehard dedicated fans. And, it gets mocked but doesn't deter RT Truthers.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
25. DU rec...
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 01:34 PM
Mar 2014

but Greenwald defends RT, so the RT cheerleading squad is immune to contradictory opinion.

I think RT is pure propaganda, but then I'm a Liberal.

Sid

Igel

(35,300 posts)
41. RT is like most heavily agitprop sources.
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 03:52 PM
Mar 2014

It's often false. It's often true. Most often it's mixed.

If it's always false, it'll be self-parodying.

Sometimes there's no need for excessive spin. The usual editorial license we expect is enough. Some things just go RT's way.

Mostly it's a mix. Leave out the occasional fact, but let most of the story stand as true.

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
30. And McCain fell for it
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 01:53 PM
Mar 2014

Pravda, which means “the truth” in Russian, became the biggest newspaper during the Soviet period of Russian history. It was the official mouthpiece of the Central Committee of the Russian Communist Party. The newspaper was closed down after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, then reopened in 1997 as the official paper of the Russian Communist Party. The current Pravda has a considerably smaller circulation compared to its Soviet glory days.

Pravda.ru, the news outlet that actually published McCain’s piece, is an electronic news website founded in 1999. Even though the website also bears the name Pravda, it is not connected to Pravda newspaper. The website has English and Russian editions and covers everything from politics to fashion and celebrities.

While editors at the communist Pravda publication said last week they were not going to accept an op-ed by McCain, a spokesman for the senator said McCain submitted one anyway, in addition to Pravda.ru, since there was confusion over the two different Pravdas. As expected, it was not published by the newspaper.

Putin said Thursday in a press conference he was not aware of McCain’s opinion piece about Russia.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/19/mccain-publishes-opinion-piece-in-pravda-but-not-the-one-he-wanted/

valerief

(53,235 posts)
29. Wow, almost as bad American news propaganda. Of course, American news propaganda
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 01:53 PM
Mar 2014

has gone totally camp.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
34. Russia: Media black-out ahead of disputed Crimea referendum
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 03:29 PM
Mar 2014
Russia: Media black-out ahead of disputed Crimea referendum
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024668994

Crimea: Attacks, ‘Disappearances’ by Illegal Forces
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024668942
 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
37. LOL, meanwhile in America, our propaganda ban is rescinded and reporters can be forced to lie:
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 03:36 PM
Mar 2014
Have you ever wondered what America’s official propaganda is like? You will not have to wonder much longer as the ban on the U.S. government propagandizing American citizens has been quietly lifted. You may soon be hearing and seeing government made news, though you might not always know it was government made.

For decades, a so-called anti-propaganda law prevented the U.S. government’s mammoth broadcasting arm from delivering programming to American audiences. But on July 2, that came silently to an end with the implementation of a new reform passed in January. The result: an unleashing of thousands of hours per week of government-funded radio and TV programs for domestic U.S. consumption in a reform initially criticized as a green light for U.S. domestic propaganda efforts.

The law, the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012, was passed as part of the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act. The repeal of the propaganda ban went into effect this month. The country has already gotten a taste of the U.S. propaganda efforts by the Pentagon.

But if anyone needed a reminder of the dangers of domestic propaganda efforts, the past 12 months provided ample reasons.Last year, two USA Today journalists were ensnared in a propaganda campaign after reporting about millions of dollars in back taxes owed by the Pentagon’s top propaganda contractor in Afghanistan. Eventually, one of the co-owners of the firm confessed to creating phony websites and Twitter accounts to smear the journalists anonymously.

Additionally, just this month, The Washington Post exposed a counter propaganda program by the Pentagon that recommended posting comments on a U.S. website run by a Somali expat with readers opposing Al-Shabaab. “Today, the military is more focused on manipulating news and commentary on the Internet, especially social media, by posting material and images without necessarily claiming ownership,” reported The Post.

http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/07/15/propoganda-ban-repealed-as-government-made-news-floods-u-s/



April 29, 2010

CMW REPORT, Spring 2003
Title: “Court Ruled That Media Can Legally Lie”
Author: Liane Casten

ORGANIC CONSUMER ASSOCIATION, March 7, 2004
Title: “Florida Appeals Court Orders Akre-Wilson Must Pay Trial Costs for $24.3 Billion Fox Television; Couple Warns Journalists of Danger to Free Speech, Whistle Blower Protection”
Author: Al Krebs

Faculty Evaluator: Liz Burch, Ph.D.
Student Researcher: Sara Brunner

In February 2003, a Florida Court of Appeals unanimously agreed with an assertion by FOX News that there is no rule against distorting or falsifying the news in the United States.

http://www.projectcensored.org/11-the-media-can-legally-lie/

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
44. You seem to have completely missed the point
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 05:42 PM
Mar 2014

Nothing in your post rehabilitates the asinine practice of crediting RT for any non-satirical purpose.

Saying Fox news lies or the US government engages in propaganda it utterly irrelevant to the topic of RT credibility. Do either of those things somehow make RT credible?

Is your argument that someone should be a stooge for the Russian government because somebody else is a stooge for the American government?

Or that one should lap up lies from source X because source Y sucks?


Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
48. Good post...
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 07:56 PM
Mar 2014

I've been wondering the same thing myself when I've read a few posts in GD lately, so thanks for putting those thoughts into words much better than I could have...

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
62. It means whatever info you're making your decision on... Say to side with the US on Crimea,
Mon Mar 17, 2014, 12:22 AM
Mar 2014

may well be lies and propaganda itself.

Obviously everything must be taken with a grain of salt.... But when there's billions of gas pipeline and fracking on the table, you can bet all is not wat it seems.

It's about gas and austerity, in my view.

I say, leave them alone!

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
52. How did U.S. media stand up to WMD claims in Iraq?
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 01:49 AM
Mar 2014

Consider all of the human devastation that we heaped upon Iraq. 100's of thousands dead. Did our media do their job? Now we find that it was a war about oil. Who could have known? Certainly not our media. Was propaganda used? Or are they just gullible?

It's best to look at sources from several points of view, from several areas of the world. I'm not saying that RT doesn't use propaganda, but so do we. Finding the truth takes some skill. If you have a media that just repeats what the administration feeds them, like in the U.S. in 2002, then that is as good as manufacturing truth by laziness, incompetence, or complicity. There are many other examples of course, for example the Syria conflict.

Cha

(297,154 posts)
57. Yeah, two wrongs definitely don't make a right. I think that's why a lot of
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 02:51 AM
Mar 2014

us haven't looked at US corporatemediawhore$ for a long time. 2002 was when I cutoff all US M$M Propaganda and why I got a computer and got on DU.

And, why I don't watch RT for the same reason.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
54. K&R Proves better than anything that the vast majority of the folks here running around calling
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 02:12 AM
Mar 2014

everybody "authoritarians" don't have any fucking clue what that word means.

How somehow can accuse the Obama administration of being fascist and authoritarian with one side of their mouth and then support Putin has to be one of the most idiotic and baffling things I've seen here. Shit like this is EXACTLY why lots of people view the "left" as anti-American and I truly cannot believe that the ones engaging in this stupid behavior aren't doing so deliberately.

Cha

(297,154 posts)
56. Thank you for the article.. From your link, MADem..
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 02:46 AM
Mar 2014
"Judging by interviews with seven former and current employees, Bivens’ story is typical. RT, the global English-language news network funded by the Russian government, has come into the spotlight since the Russian invasion of Crimea, which the network has defended tooth-and-nail."

Which coincidently enough.. so have the RT Truthers around here.

Another snip//

"Soon after joining the network, the current and former employees said, they realized they were not covering news, but producing Russian propaganda. Some employees go in clear-eyed, looking for the experience above all else. Others don’t realize what RT really wants until they’re already there. Still others are chosen for already having displayed views amenable to the Kremlin. Anti-American language is injected into TV scripts by editors, and stories that don’t toe the editorial line regularly get killed."

Another former RT employee in D.C. was shooting a story about the Wounded Warriors softball team. The story never made it to air because, as the employee was told by a higher-up employee who had lobbied for it, Trunov wanted one of the veterans to say something to the effect of, “I served my country and now all I have is this softball game.” None of the veterans said such a thing.

The employee also recounted waiting for a phone call to go cover the celebrations outside the White House on the night that Osama bin Laden was killed — a phone call that never came, because “Denis [Trunov] was not interested.”

“We basically ignored the story except to ask if the death of one man really makes the U.S. any safer,” the former employee said.

They have no fucking clue, do they?
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