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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow The Truth Is Made At Russia Today
If this doesn't open the eyes of the RT cheerleading squad, nothing will:
WASHINGTON Staci Bivens knew something was seriously wrong when her bosses at Russia Today asked her to put together a story alleging that Germany Europes economic powerhouse was a failed state.
It was me and two managers and they had already discussed what they wanted, Bivens, an American who worked in RTs Moscow headquarters from 2009 through 2011, said of a meeting shed had to discuss the segment before a planned reporting trip to Germany. They called me in and it was really surreal. One of the managers said, The story is that the West is failing, Germany is a failed state.
Bivens, who had spent time in Germany, told the managers the story wasnt true the term failed state is reserved for countries that fail to provide basic government services, like Somalia or Congo, not for economically advanced, industrialized nations like Germany. They insisted. Bivens refused. RT flew a crew to Germany ahead of Bivens, who was flown in later to do a few standups and interviews about racism in Germany. It was the beginning of the end of her RT career.
At that point Id been there for a little bit and Id had enough of the insanity, Bivens said. She stayed until the end of her contract in 2011 and didnt make an effort to renew it....Soon after joining the network, the current and former employees said, they realized they were not covering news, but producing Russian propaganda. Some employees go in clear-eyed, looking for the experience above all else. Others dont realize what RT really wants until theyre already there. Still others are chosen for already having displayed views amenable to the Kremlin. Anti-American language is injected into TV scripts by editors, and stories that dont toe the editorial line regularly get killed.
....
And yet, there are people who, doe-eyed and obtuse, can't understand why this shitstain rag of a media outlet isn't a valid LBN source...! The mind boggles!
What do you do once you've completely sold yourself for craven lucre, trashed your integrity, prostituted your reputation? Any "real" job one might get after that "soul selling" experience would always be open to criticism.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)...but then I started hearing otherwise about it. Is he still on it? If so, he really should resign.
Bad Thoughts
(2,522 posts)I fin too many similarities between the two news organizations.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Truth is, they're both insane media outlets, the difference is, at Faux the reporters are mature, raddled, soulless adults who know full well they are selling their souls for ideological reasons, at RT, they hire pretty children who don't realize that they're being seduced, brainwashed, and molded into little tools of the Russian government.
It's like prostitution--only prostitution, exploitative and sordid as it is, has more dignity.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)The anti-American propaganda became completely oppressive after that point.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)functioning_cog
(294 posts)Public opinion.
MADem
(135,425 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)functioning_cog
(294 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)jakeXT
(10,575 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)That said, there's a difference, both stylistically and substantively, between "spin" and outright propaganda. Spin is a bit of a lean (it's not a meagre meal, it's a diet plate), propaganda is outright lying and bigfooting (this is a superb, rich dinner, of the sort that is served to Kings and Queens!).
functioning_cog
(294 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)It started with the "nothing to see here" gay hatred arguments, and it's continued with the "nothing to see here, those aren't our troops occupying the Ukraine" bullshit with the Crimean situation.
I wonder if these "supporters" are paid or dumb. It's got to be one or the other.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)do you get your truth? thanks in advance.
MADem
(135,425 posts)wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)like to be as informed as you think you are so please tell us. Is it a secret?
MADem
(135,425 posts)But hmmmm.....by that tone, I think someone's a bit testy.
RT sucks, you know. And if you don't know that, it's probably a good idea that you learn it.
Bad Thoughts
(2,522 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)But you have to read it understanding that it's sharply biased and try to tease out where the bias is and where reality is. Even the biases are still information, but sort of "meta-information."
My favorite article of all times was an Izvestiya (IIRC) article that bleated proudly about tractor production in the USSR. It glowed with praise for how many tractors were produced, constituting a sharp increase in production. It took a few seconds' work to realize that it meant they were producing one tractor per year for millions of hectares. Most farmland was worked by very old tractors kept running by sheer ingenuity or by horse- or oxen-pulled ploughs. (You'd get the same "through the censor" jabs in a story or novella praising the diligent and prosperous sovkhoz workers for their ability to keep the same 35-year-old tractor going; an intelligent reader would stop and think, "Why did they need to keep that piece of der'mo working after 35 years? Perhaps because there's a massive tractor shortage?"
You also get to see what the low-information reader will accept as truth. So when I read Russian news stories about rampant lawlessness, gangs in Kyiv, massive oppression of Russians, how people are being killed in the streets (with the tacit assumption that fascist Ukrainians are killing Russians, not the other way around), etc., etc. it helps inform my expectations. Russians in Crimea will whole-heartedly vote to keep the columns of Ukrainians from entering Crimea and butchering them. Even if there are no actual columns of Ukrainians or Russians being butchered. They'll vote their propaganda-induced fears.
MADem
(135,425 posts)And putting that junk up here--except to point, mock and deride it; or deconstruct it like the garbage that it is--I feel brings down this site. It is crafted for ideologues and very stupid low information readers, absolutely, and most people at DU aren't quite that dumb. The ones championing that crap aren't dumb either, even though they're likely not pure of heart or interested in the truth. Some are in love with Snowden and/or Greenwald, and they feel that any criticism of GG's and ES's "bestie" is somehow disloyal to their dreamboats. It's terribly warped.
I do take your point from an historical and analysis-laden perspective, but from a "What's the latest news?" perspective, I think that RT material needs to have a BIOHAZARD sticker on it, because it's utter shit!
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)I do get my info from a variety of places also. None are to be trusted 100 % IMO.
Just was wondering if you had a preferred source.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)but for insight into what's scaring your typical pararnoid teabagger. What's on the front page of CNN isn't to be taken as pablum...but to be reflected on.
Read primary sources...if it's an article about a case or a law...read the case or law.
It took me a while to come to viewpoint on the NSA spying, because I wanted to make sure I had taken in all views. That took a lot of reading and time.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)The only member of the UNSC to vote against the draft resolution was the Russian Federation. China abstained.
I suppose one could claim some kind of conspiracy, but I would want proof of that conspiracy. Russia is alone against the world. I can acknowledge they have concerns about violence against pro-Russian people and about the fascists in and around the Ukraine government. However, I have no truck with their methods.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26595776 (the UNSC vote)
MADem
(135,425 posts)But Beijing is sensitive about issues of territorial integrity, because of fears it could send a message to its own restive regions of Tibet and Xinjiang, our correspondent says.
Can't side with Russia. Bad precedent: Tibet, Uighur region, little areas down in the Himalayas, in the far west, in the deep south. Also bad economics.
Can't side against Russia. Bad precedent: Taiwan and reunification under "China United". Yet more bad economics.
Hobson's choice. The best choice is no choice. Abstention.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)the 'substance' of the article...I think it's a waste of time to entertain the 'substance' bullshit....RT has as much substance as WND.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Never mind that net censorship, nothing to see here, move along...!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024669215
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)I think that knowing what the Russian government wants us to think is sometimes worthwhile.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Cha
(297,154 posts)It's disallowed in LBN but flows freely in GD via diehard dedicated fans. And, it gets mocked but doesn't deter RT Truthers.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)but Greenwald defends RT, so the RT cheerleading squad is immune to contradictory opinion.
I think RT is pure propaganda, but then I'm a Liberal.
Sid
Igel
(35,300 posts)It's often false. It's often true. Most often it's mixed.
If it's always false, it'll be self-parodying.
Sometimes there's no need for excessive spin. The usual editorial license we expect is enough. Some things just go RT's way.
Mostly it's a mix. Leave out the occasional fact, but let most of the story stand as true.
kardonb
(777 posts)the biggest lie is that their main newspaper is called "Pravda" , translated :truth .
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)Pravda, which means the truth in Russian, became the biggest newspaper during the Soviet period of Russian history. It was the official mouthpiece of the Central Committee of the Russian Communist Party. The newspaper was closed down after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, then reopened in 1997 as the official paper of the Russian Communist Party. The current Pravda has a considerably smaller circulation compared to its Soviet glory days.
Pravda.ru, the news outlet that actually published McCains piece, is an electronic news website founded in 1999. Even though the website also bears the name Pravda, it is not connected to Pravda newspaper. The website has English and Russian editions and covers everything from politics to fashion and celebrities.
While editors at the communist Pravda publication said last week they were not going to accept an op-ed by McCain, a spokesman for the senator said McCain submitted one anyway, in addition to Pravda.ru, since there was confusion over the two different Pravdas. As expected, it was not published by the newspaper.
Putin said Thursday in a press conference he was not aware of McCains opinion piece about Russia.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/19/mccain-publishes-opinion-piece-in-pravda-but-not-the-one-he-wanted/
valerief
(53,235 posts)has gone totally camp.
MADem
(135,425 posts)eom
ProSense
(116,464 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024668994
Crimea: Attacks, Disappearances by Illegal Forces
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024668942
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)For decades, a so-called anti-propaganda law prevented the U.S. governments mammoth broadcasting arm from delivering programming to American audiences. But on July 2, that came silently to an end with the implementation of a new reform passed in January. The result: an unleashing of thousands of hours per week of government-funded radio and TV programs for domestic U.S. consumption in a reform initially criticized as a green light for U.S. domestic propaganda efforts.
The law, the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012, was passed as part of the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act. The repeal of the propaganda ban went into effect this month. The country has already gotten a taste of the U.S. propaganda efforts by the Pentagon.
But if anyone needed a reminder of the dangers of domestic propaganda efforts, the past 12 months provided ample reasons.Last year, two USA Today journalists were ensnared in a propaganda campaign after reporting about millions of dollars in back taxes owed by the Pentagons top propaganda contractor in Afghanistan. Eventually, one of the co-owners of the firm confessed to creating phony websites and Twitter accounts to smear the journalists anonymously.
Additionally, just this month, The Washington Post exposed a counter propaganda program by the Pentagon that recommended posting comments on a U.S. website run by a Somali expat with readers opposing Al-Shabaab. Today, the military is more focused on manipulating news and commentary on the Internet, especially social media, by posting material and images without necessarily claiming ownership, reported The Post.
http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/07/15/propoganda-ban-repealed-as-government-made-news-floods-u-s/
CMW REPORT, Spring 2003
Title: Court Ruled That Media Can Legally Lie
Author: Liane Casten
ORGANIC CONSUMER ASSOCIATION, March 7, 2004
Title: Florida Appeals Court Orders Akre-Wilson Must Pay Trial Costs for $24.3 Billion Fox Television; Couple Warns Journalists of Danger to Free Speech, Whistle Blower Protection
Author: Al Krebs
Faculty Evaluator: Liz Burch, Ph.D.
Student Researcher: Sara Brunner
In February 2003, a Florida Court of Appeals unanimously agreed with an assertion by FOX News that there is no rule against distorting or falsifying the news in the United States.
http://www.projectcensored.org/11-the-media-can-legally-lie/
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Nothing in your post rehabilitates the asinine practice of crediting RT for any non-satirical purpose.
Saying Fox news lies or the US government engages in propaganda it utterly irrelevant to the topic of RT credibility. Do either of those things somehow make RT credible?
Is your argument that someone should be a stooge for the Russian government because somebody else is a stooge for the American government?
Or that one should lap up lies from source X because source Y sucks?
MADem
(135,425 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I've been wondering the same thing myself when I've read a few posts in GD lately, so thanks for putting those thoughts into words much better than I could have...
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)may well be lies and propaganda itself.
Obviously everything must be taken with a grain of salt.... But when there's billions of gas pipeline and fracking on the table, you can bet all is not wat it seems.
It's about gas and austerity, in my view.
I say, leave them alone!
William769
(55,145 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Behind the Aegis
(53,951 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)ozone_man
(4,825 posts)Consider all of the human devastation that we heaped upon Iraq. 100's of thousands dead. Did our media do their job? Now we find that it was a war about oil. Who could have known? Certainly not our media. Was propaganda used? Or are they just gullible?
It's best to look at sources from several points of view, from several areas of the world. I'm not saying that RT doesn't use propaganda, but so do we. Finding the truth takes some skill. If you have a media that just repeats what the administration feeds them, like in the U.S. in 2002, then that is as good as manufacturing truth by laziness, incompetence, or complicity. There are many other examples of course, for example the Syria conflict.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Cha
(297,154 posts)us haven't looked at US corporatemediawhore$ for a long time. 2002 was when I cutoff all US M$M Propaganda and why I got a computer and got on DU.
And, why I don't watch RT for the same reason.
Number23
(24,544 posts)everybody "authoritarians" don't have any fucking clue what that word means.
How somehow can accuse the Obama administration of being fascist and authoritarian with one side of their mouth and then support Putin has to be one of the most idiotic and baffling things I've seen here. Shit like this is EXACTLY why lots of people view the "left" as anti-American and I truly cannot believe that the ones engaging in this stupid behavior aren't doing so deliberately.
Cha
(297,154 posts)Which coincidently enough.. so have the RT Truthers around here.
Another snip//
"Soon after joining the network, the current and former employees said, they realized they were not covering news, but producing Russian propaganda. Some employees go in clear-eyed, looking for the experience above all else. Others dont realize what RT really wants until theyre already there. Still others are chosen for already having displayed views amenable to the Kremlin. Anti-American language is injected into TV scripts by editors, and stories that dont toe the editorial line regularly get killed."
The employee also recounted waiting for a phone call to go cover the celebrations outside the White House on the night that Osama bin Laden was killed a phone call that never came, because Denis [Trunov] was not interested.
We basically ignored the story except to ask if the death of one man really makes the U.S. any safer, the former employee said.
They have no fucking clue, do they?
ProSense
(116,464 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024671862