If we die, we're taking you with us.

[Scuba]

[PCIntern]

1. Rethug method of Birth Control...

their MASTER PLAN!

"It's just a bug, right?"

[Warpy]

28. Well, once we're born, we're no longer useful

since parents are no longer paid enough to be consumers of all the junk overseas factories are pumping out.

The ultra wealthy speak openly of culling the herd.

I have my knitting ready, awaiting the sound of the tumbril wheels.

[obxhead]

56. Bullshit

I work within one of the industries killing off the bee.

It's not about political party, it's about PROFIT. The party of MONEY leads all, especially within environmental destruction.

[PCIntern]

60. Yeah...no kidding...

it was an attempt at sarcasm/humor.

but you knew that...

[Octafish]

2. Don't worry, Scuba. Scientists will shout out and our Statesmen will hear them...

...and build a Seed Vault with which to rebuild a New World with the same old Order.

[CrispyQ]

3. "...a New World with the same old Order"

Sad as that is, it made me laugh. Seems like the same old Order is what we've been doing since we crawled out of the cave.

[JimDandy]

4. LOL... very apropos. n/t

[Enthusiast]

9. Those seed vaults are sounding more essential every day.

http://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/10/preparing-for-apocalypse-svalbard.html

I think they should expand beyond crop seeds and include any plant that could be collected.

[jtuck004]

40. But there won't be anyone left to give The Order. n/t

[L0oniX]

5. K & R ...posted on fb

[In_The_Wind]

6. Kick & recommend

[lastlib]

17. (A million bears can't be wrong!)

Eating your honey is good for you!

[In_The_Wind]

33. Indeed

(they are so darned difficult to housebreak or I would want one as a pet)

[bkanderson76]

7. Agreed...And To Be Witnessing The Creature Now In Such Distress Is Alarming

[Enthusiast]

8. We are all under attack.

Simultaneously. The biota. We are included in the biota.

Someone in a right wing think tank somewhere imagines this to be a reasonable strategy.

But they cannot undermine the environment in every conceivable way and expect good long term results. I guess they haven't given it much thought. Those engaged in this process think they have won some sort of game when they have so many homes that they have lost count.

Truly reasonable people somewhere could pull us from this morass and save us all, the pollinators and the planet.

[Ezlivin]

19. When the last species die, will someone tell the Republicans?

Since they think Jesus will set it all right when he returns, they will do absolutely nothing.

Unfortunately they'll doom us and all we'll be able to say is "I told you so." Even then they'll still think they were right.

[ReRe]

54. They are really going to be shocked...

... they think they are helping "God" out, I guess, by reeking havoc all over the world, and especially with the Monsanto GMO monster foods and their Monsanto bee-killing pesticides. They are going to be shocked when Jesus doesn't show up. Oops!

[MisterP]

38. this has been going on for over a century

Wells was the first to say we could just invent our way out of any problem

19th-c. fulfillment of Nature turned to replacement: J.D. Bernal@ wrote in 1929 that scientists would become a separate, emotionless, star-hopping species, leaving the childlike, "larval" rest of us to an unspeakable "Melanesian existence of eating, drinking, friendliness, love-making, dancing and singing." The "humanity that counts ... leav[es] behind in a relatively primitive state those too stupid or too stubborn to change." Once us kine had served their purpose of birthing this corpse-eyed scientist-deity species "There may not be room for both types in the same world ... The better organized beings will be obliged in self-defence to reduce the numbers of the others, until they are no longer seriously inconvenienced by them." The stars "cannot be allowed to continue in their old way" and must be bent to human purpose--until we outstrip God and made Him puny! "At present, I allow, we must have forests, for the atmosphere. Presently we find a chemical substitute. And then, why any natural trees? I foresee nothing but the art tree all over the earth. In fact, we clean the planet."

Crops, infrastructure, and prefab housing could be laid down anywhere, cities and megafarms laid down like sod in desert, tundra, or reef. Detroit and the Dakotas were both productive and controllable, making them the models for Lenin and Nyerere: they meant interchangeable units, fungible deskilled labor, and rigid discipline and schedules.

Their mission is to make the planet Man's property: farms are designed like they're spaceships, trying to substitute ecology outright--cattle stacked six stories indoors, powered by the Atom and shielded by weather control. They're yields, not plants or animals--carpets of crops. Even farm animals are too unruly! We can't possibly be dependent on any environment--just pump more N, P, and K into failing soils and concoct new antibiotics and pesticides if resistance develops; "our transportation crisis will be solved by a bigger plane or a wider road, mental illness with a pill, poverty with a law, slums with a bulldozer."

it's the model not just of "scientific socialism" but any technocracy--Mexico's PRI, India's INC, Dow, Bayer, and Monsanto's "nozzleheads," the Best and the Brightest thinking they could just use enough machines and Vietnam'd be over by Christmas

[Enthusiast]

39. That isn't a viable strategy, that's a sickness.

We might be able to invent our way out of many problems.

But if we allow profit motive to determine the rules, we will dirty our nest. We cannot remove these dangerous chemicals from the air and water. And we won't be moving to a new, as of yet, unsullied planet. That simply isn't practical.

Yeah, Vietnam will be over by Christmas.

[MisterP]

50. Operation Ranch Hand was actually as big a blow as Hiroshima--

especially since "we" failed

[Enthusiast]

58. If we would have "won" how would things be better?

I cannot believe anything would be better for anyone. As soon as they force through the TPP I suspect the Vietnamese will be as exploited as if the US had won.

[MisterP]

66. I think they defined success as "everone's dead" instead of only 3M

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_program

[Ptah]

10. hmm

[Scuba]

11. Apparently there's no proof that Einstein said this, but that doesn't make it any less true.

[hueymahl]

43. Actually, it does make it less true

Because, in fact, it is untrue.

Bees are not the only source of pollination. And most crops are not pollinated by bees. And the "bee problem" is limited primarily to industrial bee colonies, moved from giant field to giant field.

So, would the loss of industrial bee pollination have an impact? yes, some crops would become far more expensive. Does it even remotely lead to "death in four years"? No, not a chance, not even close.

It appears to be pseodo-science day today on DU.

All this crying wolf does not help our cause.

[Gravitycollapse]

55. The only authority in the quote is Einstein's name. Without that, it could be total bullshit.

[airplaneman]

48. I like this one. n/t.

[Gothmog]

12. The death of bee colonies is scary

These bees are very important to our world

[cantbeserious]

13. Mother Nature's Plan To Cleanse The Earth Of Humans

eom

[caraher]

14. Probably not an Einstein quote

Apparently the version of this apocryphal quote with the 4-year deadline first appeared in a beekeepers' magazine in 1965. Snopes says the veracity is undetermined.

While I think we have to stop all the things we're doing that kill off bees, the human extinction claim is overblown:

Let us remember that there were no honey bees in this continent a few hundred years ago. Native Americans ate a healthy diet which included squash and beans, sunflower seeds, chestnuts and a variety of berries, all of them pollinated by native bees. More recently, small farms and vegetable gardens still could obtain enough pollination services without managed bee hives.

Present day farming or agribusiness, with its enormous monoculture fields, requires managed pollinators: hives with large numbers of workers that can be trucked long distances and moved from crop to crop as the seasons progress.

If all honey bees disappeared, it would be catastrophic for agriculture, as we know it, and we would certainly suffer grievously, but we would survive. Nevertheless, over time, other pollinators could, and would, take over all the tasks that the Jack-of-all-trades performs today. This would require profound changes in agriculture to meet these pollinators’ needs such as nesting habitat, diversity of crops, protection from pesticides and more. Fortunately, several groups of pollination experts are already exploring this issue and coming with alternatives.

I find that view excessively pollyannaish; losing honey bees would be a catastrophe. But the effect would fall well short of killing off all people.

[progressoid]

21. ...

[fasttense]

63. You are so correct caraher.

Total destruction of Honey bees will NOT kill off man, especially in North America. We have plenty of pollinators who will gladly fill the biological niche taken over by honey bees. On my farm, I see more and more non-honey bee pollinators every season. From flies to mason bees, they seem to be a lot more sturdy than the honey bee. But they don't work on huge mono crops and agrifarms very well. You need undisturbed places for them to build their homes and breed.

By the way, you don't need earth worms either. Earth worms are also an invasive species to North America and their is NO clear evidence earthworms help the soil. There are a lot of misconceptions in farming and if you keep your eyes open, you can save yourself a lot of work by farming the way mother nature does it.

[NCarolinawoman]

15. Just like we do with water, we take the bees for granted.

[JoeyT]

16. Even if Einstein said it,

I'd be willing to bet he wasn't just talking about honey bees.

Honey bees aren't native to America, and they're not even the best pollinators. Even if honey bees totally disappear from America, we'll still have over 4000 native bee species kicking around making sure things work.

More than you ever wanted to know about bees: http://bugguide.net/node/view/475348

I already had that link handy from looking up a weird one I'd never seen before yesterday that turned out to be a cuckoo bee.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. It isn't just bees, or just honeybees.

Honeybees even aren't native to the western hemisphere, but there are many, many native bees, wasps, butterflies, moths and flies that act as pollinators, and they are being killed off by the chemicals used in farming and lawn care. Don't put chemicals on your lawns and gardens, folks. We have to learn to put up with some weeds and bugs. Our lawns don't have to look like golf courses. If we kill the pollinators we won't have gardens at all. Or food.

[ffr]

20. Doing what I can to help out our bees, but I'm off of honey

Too many honey substitutes, lack of regulation and bastardized milk honey coming in from Asia/China. If I do see some that a local grower did organically, I might buy a small jar to support their practice, but that's about all.

Asian Honey, Banned in Europe, Is Flooding U.S. Grocery Shelves
A third or more of all the honey consumed in the U.S. is likely to have been smuggled in from China and may be tainted with illegal antibiotics and heavy metals. - FoodSafetyNews.com

[lunasun]

47. +1 yes go local only the honey. It's US packers that are mixing/ using the Chinese honey

Just another thing banned in Europe that the US is more than happy to accept



“Why are we the dumping ground of the world for something that’s banned in all these other countries?” asked Adee, who, with 80,000 bee colonies in five states, is the country’s largest honey producer.

“We’re supposed to have the world’s safest food supply but we’re letting in boatloads of this adulterated honey that all these other countries know is contaminated and FDA does nothing.”

[handmade34]

22. as a once and future

apiarist... I do appreciate that!!

[Botany]

23. Then do something about it!

Last edited Sun Mar 16, 2014, 07:34 PM - Edit history (1)

Work on helping the native pollinators. The european honey bee* is not native but
the we have many many native bees, flies, bugs, moths, butterflies, and other critters
such as the hummingbird that can the job gone i.e. pollinate our food crops.

1) plant native plants
2) provide food, shelter, and water for the native pollinators
3) have the flowering times on your plants staggered so as to
allow for some feeding and pollinating actions
4) understand that "bugs" are vital for the health of the environment
5) try to limit all use of insecticides and if you have to use environmentally
friendly products such as insecticidal soap.


* and they smell of runny cheese and wine all the time too .... if you look closely (under magnification)
you can see a beret on them with a euro on it.

Get this book



and this one too

[BlancheSplanchnik]

52. +++++++ n/t

[pasto76]

24. yeah this is not exactly accurate

only modern industrial agriculture is reliant on european honeybees. The vast, immense swaths of monoculture prevent any of the -hundreds- of other species of pollinators from living anywhere among crops except along the edges.

not to mention the piling evidence of the neonicotinoid pesticides being particularly lethal to honey bees.

something as simple as having one acre, say, per 6-10 acres, go 'wild' with native plants and/or other pollinator attractors (queen annes lace is 'invasive' but the pollinators LOVE them) could assuage the effect of honeybee colony collapse.

so heres a test. if you dont know that picture is a european honeybee, you definitely need to read up on pollinators. If you dont know that bumblebees are NOT the same species, but a _native_ , solitary bee, you really should read up on pollinators.

if you dont know that there are hundreds of native bee species, and that some dont even look like bees, you should check it out. Not to mention all the beetles, butterflies and moths, and insects otherwise that are natural pollinators.

The european honeybee is only a crucial link, if we rely on industrial agriculture.

Just another reason to buy small and buy local. check this one out

http://www.xerces.org/

[Android3.14]

31. I also like the 100-mile diet and locally produced energy

We try to eat from our local farms, buy our meat from local facilities and we heat our home with locally grown wood harvested and cut within 50 miles. We have fuel oil as a back-up which we use maybe 200 gallons when the wood furnace won;t last all night and the oil kicks in, but our New England winter energy bill is about $2500.

[obxhead]

57. "rely on industrial agriculture."

Right there.....

With the planet pushing 8 billion+ people, we do RELY on industrial agriculture.

[NutmegYankee]

25. I have great success keeping wild bumble bees fed

I have several large perennial gardens that bloom at different times and can usually count at least 20 bees at any time. They then pollinate my garden and keep the heirloom tomatoes coming along.

[Rex]

26. I'm sorry, but people are enjoying their hippie punching too much

to pay attention. Not that they cared anyway.

[Android3.14]

29. Your sig

Lol.
I remember that episode.

[Rex]

30. That was a sad day for Picard.

I suspect he would give the end of Net Neutrality a few facepalms.

[Android3.14]

27. Does it matter whether Einstein said this?

He probably did not say anything like this.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/einstein/bees.asp
However, someone upthread responded that even if Einstein didn't say it, it doesn't make it any less true.
I see the issue in two parts. If someone attributes a quote, whether the content of the quote is true or not, to a famous person in order to give it greater validity, does this harm or hurt the cause for which the person posted the "quote". For example, if I published that Obama said, "If we don't stop Russia in the Ukraine, then there will be a nuclear war." Does this advance the agenda of stopping Russia? Perhaps for the brief few moments while the gullible once again tear their shirts. But then those who are capable of critical thinking arrive, or those who don't want to have anything to do with Russia arrive, point out that Obama said nothing of the sort, and that people are making wild accusations are unstrustworthy, and we should therefore ignore what they have to say in the future because they are either liars, idiots, or both.
The second aspect is this. Is the statement true? If bees were to all disappear today, would all humans be dead in less than four years?
I think not.
http://www.unep.org/dewa/Portals/67/pdf/Global_Bee_Colony_Disorder_and_Threats_insect_pollinators.pdf
According to a 2010 report, the decline of honey bees may be an extinction level event. But even if bees disappeared suddenly, it seems that the eradication of people on the planet would probably take hundreds of years to thousands of years rather four or fewer years. And that's if we all sat around with our thumbs up our asses. Pollinating plants is something that occurs through many vectors, and people can even do it by hand. Additionally, bees pollinate 70 of the 100 plants that provide 90% of our food. This is a simple math problem to estimate indicating that if we did nothing, we would see a 63% decline in available food, which would certainly lead to massive starvation, but would fairly quickly result in a smaller population of humans rather than the extinction.
Certainly there are big problems with bees, but wild-eyed proclamations of the impending death of humans as an entire species are unhelpful at best.
It is unfortunate that people spread this sort of ignorance.

[Liberal In Texas]

70. Give you are

[KentuckyWoman]

32. Not rocket science here.

I realize big farming needs something to pollinate it's acres and acres of franken-wheat and franken-corn but if that crap is killing us how can we expect it be healthy for the local bugs? or even the imported bugs?

[Botany]

34. FYI

corn and wheat are wind pollinated

[KentuckyWoman]

37. That was meant as a "catchall" phrase for factory "food" .... but this is DU

I should have known better....

[Botany]

42. Please this is a science driven thread and posting wrong facts along w/ ...

.... hippy dippy stuff* needs to be called out. Especially when the topic of the
thread is insect pollination of plants (food crops) and you give two examples
from the grass family which is well known as being wind pollinated.



* "franken-wheat and franken-corn"

[KentuckyWoman]

62. Science driven thread?

This thread can only be about opinion because science hasn't pinned down a cause yet. My opinion is that the crops themselves, modified, hybridized, and otherwise manipulated, might be cause of this. They are barely fit for human consumption. I think the idea they are poor food for the bees could use more attention. In fact I think it's a no brainer.

Hopefully this will help you grasp my meaning. If not, or if you are just determined to be obtuse, then I can't help that....

[Orrex]

64. Your opinion is inconsistent with fact

My opinion is that the crops themselves, modified, hybridized, and otherwise manipulated, might be cause of this. They are barely fit for human consumption.

That's a statement of faith, not science. I don't dispute that it is indeed your opinion, but it's not based on science, evidence, nor any credible studies to date.

It is much more likely that a pathogen (fungal/viral/bacterial) or a toxin (pesticide, etc.) or a combinatino of factors is to blame. Such factors are reasonably well-established and are consistent with observiation and evidence. However, it's trendy to assume instead that Monsanto is killing the world with its evil, scary crops, even though there's no evidence whatsoever that this is the case.

Remember, it wasn't so long ago that people "knew" that cellphones were to blame.

[KentuckyWoman]

67. It is much more likely......

When you start you commentary " It is much more likely" then you are going to follow with an opinion. This is fine. Opinion is all we have... based on the few facts we do know. Science is still working out what this is about.

My post includes another factor to consider. One of many. Now you can disagree that that there is any chance the lack of variety or the crops themselves might have a part to play but I never said anything about Monsanto. That's not anything close to where I was going here. If you don't understand where I'm coming from it's OK - you can ask. But please if you are going to belittle my opinion at least have the decency to find out where I'm actually coming from instead of deciding for me.

In this case, you are in a bit of a hurry to hand out a tin foil hat....

Just sayin'

Here in eastern Kentucky farming that requires pollination may not be the big deal it is in California or Florida or Washington State, but people's livelihood depends on it. This is a real concern here and we are not willing to toss out anything that might help.

[Orrex]

68. When you're commenting on matters of science, you should limit idle speculation

My post includes another factor to consider. One of many. Now you can disagree that that there is any chance the lack of variety or the crops themselves might have a part to play

Your post includes a factor that has been considered and has been debunked as irrelevant. Until someone demonstrates that GMO crops actually are a factor in colony collapse, then it is irresponsible to include GMO crops in your list of suspects. It's exactly the same mode of thinking that zealots use when they reject vaccinations because of fears about autism.

You are welcome to your opinion. When your opinion is inconsistent with fact, as it is in this case, then you can expect people to point out the error in your thinking.

I never said anything about Monsanto.

Oh, but you did. Otherwise, exactly which GMO crops were you describing? Manufactured by whom? "I wasn't talking about Apple; I was talking about iPhones." Puh-leeze.

And even if you weren't in this instance talking specifically about Monsanto, it's irrelevant; the fear-mongerers will rail against any corporation that produces evil GMO crops, so--to the fear-mongers--a GMO rose by any other name would smell as evil.

[KentuckyWoman]

69. no GMO in my post either

so I have no idea what you are ranting about.

[Orrex]

71. On the contrary, you have no idea what *you're* ranting about

No GMO in your post?

My opinion is that the crops themselves, modified, hybridized, and otherwise manipulated, might be cause of this.

Look, if you're not even going to bother to read your own posts, then why should anyone else?

[Botany]

65. What is happening to the european bees is called colony collapse disorder

It is in part because of mites, fungus, other microbes, and the use of
insecticides we have ZERO PROOF that it is from human manipulated
agricultural crops. Besides rice, corn, wheat, barley, oats, and all other
grain crops from the grass family which is the vast majority of where the
world's foods come from are not bee pollinated.


This book is a great source of information.

[Ptah]

35. Wheat and corn do not depend on insects for pollination.

[MoonRiver]

36. Frankly the world would be better off

without humans, NOT bees.

[Curmudgeoness]

41. Just think of all the jobs it will open up

for peons to run around all the agri-business fields pollinating plants.

[AverageJoe90]

44. Which they won't.....nt

[Zorra]

45. I love my honeybee sisters. They land on me and walk around and tickle my arms and legs

when I sit on the back porch sometimes.

They understand that I want to protect their Queen.

[BelgianMadCow]

46. bee happy

K & R

[blkmusclmachine]

49. Pray harder.

[Cha]

51. Fuck the POISONS, HERBICIDES, TOXINS that Co. like Monsanto

use to spray their GMO crops. And, any other user who does not have a fucking clue.

[1awake]

53. But... bee's arent, and Einstein didn't. nt

[RoccoR5955]

61. No bees, not enough food for the population.

And also no mead... Mead is very important! As important as food!