lets have a civil factual debate aboug E-Cigs

[demtenjeep]

from what I have witnessed it seems to the be best way to quit smoking . My son smoked 3 packs a day. He was worried aobut the price of cigs and was looking for an alternative way to still smoke but the start of getting his life back. He used to smoke 3 packs a day and he found a vape device that allowed him still the action of smoking . He has gradually stepped down the level of nicotine and he is now at the lowest levels. He has been smoke free for almost a year. He breathes much better and loves the extra money he has due to not smoking as much as he did.

I have the stuff and I am still learning how the best way to go started and getting the flavors I want but I hope to have the same success.

I want to share the success stories so we have primary sources that it is INDEED working to help those that choose it for smoking secession

[Glitterati]

1. Smoke free for 16 months thanks to ecigs

I tried everything to quit and nothing worked.

Until I found ecigarettes.

I can't say enough good things about them.

[demtenjeep]

3. this is the same exciting results I am seeing

I will probably pick a day this week and after I find the juice I like (hard core menthol smoker) I plan to start this and never use cigs again!

[Autumn]

5. The menthol is awesome. You won't regret doing this.

[Glitterati]

7. Yeah, they have menthols too

Never tried them, but lots of friends say they are great.

Stay with it, it really does work!

[demtenjeep]

11. son told me to go to a place and ask for Cowboy Menthol

says it is very similar

[Glitterati]

16. Lots and lots of ecig places cropping up here

When I started using them, I could only buy online. But, now they have "tasting sessions" at the local ecig places where you can try out different flavors and strengths before you buy them.

My first ecig was a battery with the screw on cartridges and the first kit I bought included 5 cartridges, some flavored. I tried one flavor (some chocolate thing) and thought they were GAWD AWFUL, so never tried another one. LOL!

I just successfully dropped the nicotine content over time from 21mg to 11mg and 4mg of nicotine. Eventually, keeping up with the ecig was more trouble than it was worth and I found myself using it less and less and less.

I never even bothered with the 0mg nicotine cartridges.

[Jesus Malverde]

63. Do you still consume nicotine or vape?

[Glitterati]

80. No, I don't.

Remembering where I put it, charging it, finding it just became more trouble than it was worth, so I just never bothered after a certain point.

[jberryhill]

25. If I might make a suggestion

Don't make some sort of challenge out of it.

Keep your cigarettes around. On day one, when you want to have a cigarette, that's fine. Take a few puffs on the ecig first and wait maybe thirty seconds more. If you still want the cigarette, fine, have the cigarette.

The nicotine does not hit your brain as quickly because, IMHO, the primary absorption mechanism is through your buccal membranes, and not your lungs - basically vapor condensate in your mouth and throat.

If you find the ecig to be too harsh, it could be that your nicotine level is too high. I was initially worried I wouldn't be getting "enough" nicotine, and went for 24 mg/ml which, in retrospect, was insane. The nicotine itself has something of a "sting" to it, and you may find that 12 mg/ml and below is much smoother.

You may find, fairly rapidly, that you don't really need that cigarette. After you've adjusted to the nicotine having a different flavor, cigarettes will taste like shit.

[blue neen]

2. I don't personally have a success story, but

my son tried the E-cigs and did find them helpful. They help with the "habit" (his word) of smoking and with the nicotine withdrawal. You can actually choose the amount of nicotine in the cylinders.

I believe they can be a helpful tool to someone trying to quit.

[Glitterati]

6. That was something I discovered

one of the worst "habits" of smoking was the association to having a cigarette burning up in the ashtray while I was working on the computer.

Without the ecig to take the place of all that money going up in smoke, I just couldn't sit at the computer.

That was just a "habit" of smoking - as much an addiction as the nicotine.

With the ecig, I broke that habit as well.

[blue neen]

8. Yeah...

he plays in a band. He liked having that "prop" to play with when practicing and performing.

Congrats on your success!

[Glitterati]

9. Thanks!

I think it helped a lot that I couldn't afford to keep smoking and ecigarettes are really cheap compared to cigarettes!

[Jesus Malverde]

61. How much would you save a week?

The financial aspects of the debate are downplayed in the media.

[Glitterati]

82. Oh jeez! A small fortune

One "cartridge" was the same as a carton of cigarettes! The cartridges I bought were $10.00 with shipping for 5 cartridges.

Price difference - 5 cartons of cigarettes 165.00, 5 cartridges 15.00 with shipping.

[Autumn]

4. I love mine. I have been on it since Jan31

I have been using the zero nicotine juice for a over a couple of weeks now and this week I have rarely remembered to use it. 8 bucks for a bottle 36 and up for a carton. I bought 3 bottles of assorted flavors when I bought my Vape pen. None of the bottles are empty. The one I used the most, the black and mild tobacco blend still has under half a bottle.

[Comrade Grumpy]

10. What are the issues with e-cigs?

Are they addictive?

I would grant that they are, if they have nicotine in them.

Are they harmful to ingest?

Some posters have said they are filled with nasty chemicals. But have those chemicals been shown to have harmful effects when ingested as e-vapors?

Is the second-hand vapor harmful to others?

I suspect the moves to ban e-cigs indoors are based on their association with cigarette smoke, but they don't actually have any smoke. Is there anything showing second-hand e-vapors are harmful?

Should they be limited to adults?

I like them as a smoking cessation device, not so much as a nicotine initiation delivery system for kids.

[Glitterati]

14. Some first hand experience for you

Are they addictive?
Since nicotine IS addictive, one has to PRESUME that the nicotine IS. However, the nicotine is no more addictive than the currently approved FDA nicotine delivery systems known as nicotine patches, gum and lozenges. Also, my GP, Endocrinologist and Cardiologist all agree that nicotine, no matter how it is delivered, is far less addictive than cigarettes.

Are they harmful to ingest?
Again, since the ingredients in ecigarettes are safe in food, body lotions, shampoos, and many everyday items found in all homes today, they are no more harmful than they are in the above items.

Is the second-hand vapor harmful to others?
There is no reason to believe so. See the response to the question directly above.

Should they be limited to adults?
Anything addictive should be limited to adults. Enough. Said.

on edit:
I want to add one thing, though it is not FACT but personal experience.....

I have to believe nicotine is not terribly addictive since once I was down to minimal nicotine (4mg) I found I didn't even need the ecig any longer. Much like the patches, gums and lozenges, graduating the nicotine intake simply meant it was more work to find the nicotine than it was worth and I simply quit using even the ecig. I still have one that I keep charged, just for the possibility that I'll need a cigarette, but I haven't used it in months. It sits on my computer keyboard - just in case. The second one sits in my desk drawer, uncharged and unused.

[DebJ]

58. You mean nicotine was not terribly addictive for YOU, and for some other lucky people. n/t

[Live and Learn]

62. I think the poster means, that like many other

previously addicted people, the poster found that once off the hundreds of other chemicals added by cigarette manufacturers, many to make cigarettes more addictive, the poster found it relatively easy to drop to no nicotine, This has been experienced by many previously highly addicted smokers.

E-cigs are working for people that had already tried everything else to quit and yet many people seem determined, for no good reason whatsoever, to eliminate people's access to them. Do you work for big pharma?

[DebJ]

83. If you re-read my comment, I made no comment at all about ecigs.

I was referring only to the comment "I have to believe that nicotine isn't terribly addictive". I've posted before on DU about my own nicotine addiction. I'm a chain smoker who is hoping ecigs might be helpful for me, so I was reading about them, and found this thread very useful and bookmarked it.

Here's my take on big pharma: as a restaurant manager, I was told by a pharma rep who used our catering services several times a week that the drugs she marketed in the USA were extremely cheaper anywhere outside USA borders. I asked why, she said she didn't know...but clearly, she was incredibly angry about her employer's pricing practices, and she clarified that production point had nothing whatsoever to do with the pricing That certainly didn't make me happy; I was so ticked off I've told everyone I know what she said..and that was 6 years ago now and I am still repeating the story.

I don't know if flu vaccine makers are considered part of big pharma, but I am incredibly annoyed that they refuse to sell or provide flu vaccine to the doctors in our area. They will only market them through pharmacies. I don't feel like revealing all my health concerns to a pharmacy to get a shot in a grocery store or drug store. They know enough from my meds history. Furthermore, our health care plan, which is extremely generous, will only pay certain pharmacies to give the shots, and none of those pharmacies are in our area, so we have to pay for the shots ourselves. I find this all so annoying I never did get a flu shot this year, and I should have. And my doctor is very concerned that when there are shortages of vaccines, the vaccines are 'rationed' by a first-come,first-serve, whoever-has-the-dollars plan, instead of by which patients in a given area are most critically in need of a vaccine that could save their lives. Getting flu shots has become like shopping for anything else, rather than a matter of supervised health care.

My son has to remain on social supports because the medicines available for his bipolar disorder are so outrageously expensive there is no way he could 'work his way up' the ladder and earn enough money to pay for medical care and the medicines that keep him alive. He would be cut off from medical assistance way before he earned enough to support himself in even the most meager of fashions. If the medicines were not so outrageously expensive, he could perhaps pay for the meds for awhile himself. I had to pay cash for his meds for a year (going back 12 years now), and they cost $800 a month....just the meds alone...that was 20% of my gross income.

I detest the TV marketing of drugs; the absurdity of telling people to ask your doctor about thus-and-so, when half the time they don't even tell you what the med treats: hypochondriac marketing to a group of people who aren't trained in science or medicine. And then bill everyone for the cost of that marketing in the cost of the drug!!!!!!!

Most of all, I resent profit being in our health care system, period. In addition to my son's issues, four other family members suffer from Marfin Syndrome, with health issues like backs deteriorating and falling apart by their late 40s, and so many other issues you wouldn't believe. We have other things in the family, too. My husband's health care costs for his kidney disease may result in foreclosure or bankruptcy for us within the next few years.

Ridiculous that I feel compelled to defend myself against being considered a troll because I commented on the addictive impact of nicotine...like any addiction, including alcoholism, it is the individual's brain and body chemistry that determines the level of or presence of an addictive response to a given substance. That was my only point. Troll-hunting can be an addiction too, perhaps.

[dionysus]

90. great rebuttal

[Live and Learn]

59. +1 nt

[Half-Century Man]

28. On the second hand vapors.

Years ago, I had a chemistry professor (a Phd) who pointed out that the claims about second hand smoke being so deadly had no real concrete proof. Because the strictly adhere to the scientific method, the study groups would have had to have had identical lives excepting for the exposure to tobacco smoke in the environment. He did clarify, in response to a thermonuclear melt down by a couple first year nursing students, that there was a mountain of circumstantial evidence.

I don't know if a comprehensive study has been done strictly following the scientific method on the effects of second hand smoke on genetically identical persons living near similar lives. Personally I'm satisfied by the many years worth and the monstrous amount of circumstantial evidence to agree about legislation on limiting exposure to second hand smoke.

I don't know if e-cigs have been around long enough to generate the amount circumstantial evidence which tips the scale in favor of suppressive legislation.

Question: anyone know anything about second hand smoke legislation in states which have or are moving toward marijuana decriminalization?

[pnwmom]

65. There seems to be a common misconception that vapor is always safer than smoke.

We know smoke is harmful because it contains particulates, if nothing else, that can get into lungs and damage them.

With vapor, the safety completely depends on the content of the vapor. If it is pure water vapor, there should be no risk. But the vapor in e-cigs is not pure water vapor. It contains varying, and unregulated amounts, of toxic substances such as formaldehyde. And recently researchers at the University of California at Riverside found some e-cigs actually contained nano particles of metals. This would be a very bad thing, a potentially cancer-causing thing, to breathe into the lungs.

In September 40 state attorney generals petitioned the FDA to limit the sale of e-cigs to adults. It would seem, based on the lack of current safety knowledge, that would be the least we should do.

The reason we don't have more safety studies, by the way, is because one of the early manufacturers won a lawsuit against the FDA, forcing the FDA to classify e-cigs as a tobacco product -- which allowed them to be exempt from the necessity of supplying safety and efficacy studies as a smoking cessation device. They want to have it both ways.

[Live and Learn]

66. No, the reason you don't have more safety studies

is because nobody wants to pay for them. The industry itself has done studies but you don't care to read those. All of the ingredients have already been determined safe by the FDA.

The studies you are citing didn't specify where they got their juices. Since juices are currently unregulated, one needs to be aware of where they get their juice from and what it contains. The industry itself has asked for some regulation in this regard and against selling to minors.

By the way, many people make their own juice and have full knowledge of exactly what is in it. If you want to call for reasonable regulation, please join the industry leaders in requesting it but quit your call for outright bans due to dubious studies.

[pnwmom]

77. Show me one place where I called for an "outright ban."

If the industry has done studies, they should submit them to the FDA and ask for approval as a nicotine dispensing device.

The industry is not asking for regulation, they're asking to be treated as a tobacco product. They actually won a lawsuit forcing the FDA to classify e-cigs as a tobacco product, so they would be exempt from the requirement to submit safety data, just like tobacco products.

[Bluenorthwest]

85. The reason to classify as a tobacco product is that you can then sell them as an option

to cigarettes where cigarettes are sold. It is against the law to sell say, the nicotine gum in the cigarette department, which defies logic but it is the fact. If you have a product you wish to present as an available option to a much more harmful product, you do not want your product to be across the store in the medical areas.
It's bad business and counter to the entire reason people like them.
Meanwhile, the Australians are doing a very large study, as they are considering banning smoking and allowing vapeing as alternative on a national basis.

[SirRevolutionary]

104. Here's a bunch of scientific studies

that disagree with your noted "common misconception that vapor is always safer than smoke" http://onvaping.com/the-ultimate-list-of-studies-on-e-cigarettes-and-their-safety/

You could put rat poison in vapor, sure. But as of yet, I have not heard of any manufacturers going that route.

Legislating and limiting sales on a technology we "lack safety knowledge" for is not wise in general, especially when it's clear smokers are quitting thanks to ecigs. Let alone when we do in fact have many studies from various sources showing evidence to the contrary.

[SirRevolutionary]

12. First off...

You're right, facts so far show that ecigs, or vapes as we call them, are far far less than 1% of the danger analog cigarettes cause. So yes indeed, they work and facts back that up, and yes you should move to them instead of smoking.

I have to say honestly, the vast majority of DUers whose comments I've read are smart enough to know that smoking is not equal to vaping. They're two similar LOOKING things that have next to nothing in common. Yes, they save "smokers" from killing themselves. Yes, they LOOK like you're smoking. No, you don't have to kill yourself and keep your habit as shitty/silly as others think it is.

The scientific facts hold water to this, ecigs as far as have been studied pose far less than 1% of the danger smoking does. The anti's will tell you you can't vape around them at the public park because the children will turn into zombies, but they have no science to back that up. Better minds will prevail, haters gonna hate...

Vape now and quit the cancer sticks. Enjoy what you want to do with none of the danger. If the anti's want to prove you wrong, they'll need to refute many an ecig study thus far vs their silly pseudo-science nanny Bloomberg tomfoolery.

[Live and Learn]

67. I wish I had your faith in better minds prevailing.

I used to believe the same but the last few years have me seriously doubting that. I have to wonder if these same anti's are have as opposed to the real and emergent dangers our earth and we as a species are facing. I doubt they can have much energy leftover for climate change since they expend so much of it on the false dangers of E-cig vapor.

[SirRevolutionary]

99. I don't want to be pessimistic

but I fear you're right about that. Truth needs no defender, and science is showing ecigs are safe but that's still not stopping the nanny state from controlling and fearing.

Chris Christie recently proposed taxing the sale of ecigs to be on par with analog cigarettes. Really? Serious? How could that even be legal?

I can't sit in the same parks in Greenpoint Brooklyn I used to take my girls to and have a vape, but at sundown the same old army of rats come crawling out of the woodwork to take over the jungle gym and gobble up the trash left over by people. Let alone the fact that NYC is basically a giant wind tunnel for automobile exhaust, but since you can't see it with the naked eye, it must be safe, right? If people truly cared about the health of kids, there are way bigger fish to fry than vapes let alone the scientific studies that show they're not harmful to vapers or second hand.

A few posters mentioned how Big Tobacco will inevitably buy up ecig tech and bastardize it, make the nicotine many orders of magnitude more addictive in order to keep another generation hooked on their product. No doubt they'll try that, most of the big corps out there are greedy underhanded slobs who don't care about their customers. That doesn't mean the current technology, the invention of the ecig is bad. It means we're assuming that greedy corporations will make it nasty for their bottom line.

But if those same posters REALLY thought that and cared about the kids, they'd realize that Big Tobacco has owned a massive market share of our food since the 80s!

What percentage of kids smoke cigarettes vs eat food that comes from those same Big Tobacco companies?

[Bjorn Against]

13. This is why I think opposition to e-cigs is so misguided

I hate cigarettes and that is why I think e-cigs are a very good thing, they get people to quit. I can not understand why some opponents of smoking want to get rid of them, if they are helping people quit the real thing they should be encouraged.

[SirRevolutionary]

15. I personally think

it's two things. There must be people who think the second hand nicotine and non-scientifically backed chemicals will end their lives early. And the rest of them were just haters all along. They don't want to see people doing what appears to be smoking anywhere, any time.

It's not smoking. Science shows there's no danger to ecigs/vapes. But haters gonna hate. There are authoritarian people so brainwashed by the anti-smoking propaganda, it just pisses them off to see people puffing on wisps of water vapor because it LOOKS like they're smoking cigarettes. Sweet Moses, save the children! What has our society become?

[Glitterati]

17. It really is silly, isn't it?

And, so overblown!

I live 2 blocks from a high school. Rural enough that the kids who don't drive have no where to go for lunch except the convenience store around the corner from my house.

Well, those high schoolers standing out there in front of the convenience store every afternoon are NOT using ecigarettes, hookahs or vapes........they're smoking cigarettes.

But they COULD buy those ecigs that sit on the counter at the convenience store! In fact, those ecigs are easier to get here than the cigarettes they are smoking, as ecigs aren't limited to 18 and above. So, it takes a great deal more subtrefuge to get CIGARETTES.

[SirRevolutionary]

20. Won't somebody think of the children?!

You need about $100 to start seriously vaping. I don't think anyone has a problem keeping ecigs/vapes out of the hands of kids under 18.

Their logic is assailable. Kids have/will smoke cigarettes. They always have since the dawn of cigarettes. They'll smoke weed, they'll have sex, they'll drink, etc and so on and so forth.

They can't do any one of those things without some adult somewhere failing. It's up to adults to stop kids from doing stupid shit. If a kid is doing something that's meant for adults, some adult somewhere failed.

This whole "what about the children" argument is an appeal to emotion, it's a bullshit illogical argument. Ecigs/vapes not only work to help smokers of analog tobacco cigarettes quit and eliminate smoking one day, but science shows thus far, they pose far less than 1% of the danger analog cigarettes pose, if not completely eliminate it. Matter of fact, the debate rages on, I assert that they CAN pose zero danger to anyone, vaper, or "second hand" vapers.

This war against ecigs is ridiculous and it amounts to the anti's losing control over whipping the dirty no-good smokers into submission for their nasty habit (according to them). If anybody wants to eliminate smoking tobacco forever and replace it with something that works for "smokers", and causes no harm to anyone, they should be completely be in favor of ecigs/vapes.

[alittlelark]

42. I certainly agree w/ you about ecigs...

but your post has me flummoxed.

"Kids have/will smoke cigarettes. They always have since the dawn of cigarettes. They'll smoke weed, they'll have sex, they'll drink, etc and so on and so forth. "

vs

"They can't do any one of those things without some adult somewhere failing."


The 2 statement do not jibe.


If they WILL do it, how is that the failing of an adult (presumably parent) as opposed to society? Perhaps you are trying to say that society is truly the parent?

[tkmorris]

96. I'm (obviously) not the poster you responded to but...

I want to answer you anyway.

Those two statements are not, in fact, incompatible. It might help to rephrase the first to state that kids will always TRY to do those things. They won't succeed unless an adult somewhere fails, this is also true. The third, and unspoken, truism is that adults WILL fail to prevent kids from doing these things at times, sometimes through negligence and sometimes through apathy or willing complicity.

I'm not entirely certain what to make of your last paragraph. I will say though that it is difficult if not impossible for a parent by themselves to prevent kids from doing these things. School officials may fail to be appropriately diligent, or the clerk at the local package store may be flattered by how much the teens seem to like him/her if they are allowed to buy cigarettes or alcohol for example. Society is not an entity separate from adults, society IS a collection of adults, and all must at some point do their part.

[SirRevolutionary]

98. It's illegal for kids to smoke, drink, etc

if some person at a convenience store sells a kid of pack of cigarettes (and many do, constantly) that adult certainly disobeyed the law. Ultimately though, yes it's up to the kid's parent or guardian find out and do something about it.

If you're a bystander and somehow you know the cashier sold a kid a pack of cigarettes, by all means report them! We as a society can do what we can to raise kids, however, it's not ultimately our jobs to raise other people's children.

So you can be the most vigilant parent in the universe, but someone somewhere is probably giving your kid something you'd likely not approve of. Maybe they're watching porn on their friends iPod, maybe they're smoking weed or cigs, maybe they're having sex or drinking.

I'm saying yes, it takes a village to raise a child. However, it's the parents who ultimately are responsible for raising there kids. There are parents out there who just don't care if their kids smoke or drink, or whatever. If you walked up to a parent like that and said "hey, that guy over there just sold your kid some cigarettes" and that parent says "so what?", what are your options?

[ejpoeta]

74. the "news" does stories about how kids start with vaping and then move on to cigarettes.

I just don't see it. why would they do that? cigarettes cost more. I am always skeptical about what they say in their news stories. Where do they get this news? this information? studies? how long have these ecigs been around? I mean, in the public eye around. I don't think very long. But even if kids WERE using the ecigs.... I certainly don't see how they would then move to a more expensive thing as smoking.

[energumen]

18. I have not smoked a cigarette in 2-1/2 years.

but I do vape quite a bit. The main issue is that I enjoyed smoking. Not the issues like possible cancer, smelling like a smoker, burning holes in clothes, etc. but the physical act of inhaling and exhaling something. More than the nicotine its the hand to mouth habit. I am at 4mg nicotine, about the same as an very, ultra light cigarettes. I think 12mg is considered the equivalent to "light" cigarettes. When I started I was used to smoking Marlboro red and had for about 30 years so I began at 24mg. I have cut down by 80 (? mental math is not my strong suit) percent. I will probably eventually move to 0 nicotine, I have some I use occasionally. I may never stop vaping. As I have said before there seems to be a small contingent here that have an innate need to control the actions of others under the guise of "the children".

[Jesus Malverde]

19. Your son is not keeping up with his end of the bargain

Pay a lot in taxes for the pleasure of nicotine.

Youll be allowed to vape, but first they're going to make crap up about this new habit and then tax the heck out of it.

[energumen]

22. On the bright side

Its not terribly difficult, or expensive, to buy the ingredients and mix your own. You can probably do it for about 50-70 dollars a gallon, depending on nicotine levels, as opposed to roughly $30 for 60ml. I have not actually carefully priced it, just a rough estimate. And its all food additives.

[Jesus Malverde]

24. I really feel all this outrage is about dollars and cents

It's not about health, it's seems a better alternative to smoking.

[TreasonousBastard]

21. 3-4 packs a day for 40 years or so...

and I finally quit maybe 5 or 6 years ago.

Didn't have vapes then and used mainly the gum, but I gotta say those who complain about a harmless thing helping you save your health and 40 bucks a day have some serious problems of their own to overcome.

[KittyWampus]

23. Wish they weren't called e-cigs, it makes it too easy for zealots to twist the issue.

They aren't cigarettes and I hope e-cigs completely supplant them.

[tammywammy]

26. I just bought a set up Friday.

My mom switched to vaping a month or so ago. She told me she bought one pack of cigarettes since and it was disgusting, she loves the vape. Friday we were out together and went to a vapor store and I got my set up. Tried a bunch of flavors and decided on red hot cinnamon with low nicotine. I'll go to no nicotine eventually.

I was trying Chantix, but I'm horrible at remembering to take it right after I finish my lunch, and if I don't take it on a really full stomach I get really nauseous. I figure this week help with the habit part. I'll be glad to be off cigarettes.

[alittlelark]

35. Cinnamon is the best!

Cig free 4 years w/ vape help. I kept 2 w/ me at all times - just in case I lost one. Still use it when stressed.

[Egnever]

110. Chantix is poison

Get off it asap.

Best of luck with the vaping. Finding a flavor you like is the hardest part imho. After that it is dead easy to put the analogs down.

Seriously though the chantix is really horrible stuff, get off it as soon as possible.

[tammywammy]

119. I'm off of it.

I didn't have the depression, but a couple vivid dreams and the nausea. The nausea was bad, I could only take it after a big full meal. Even just a snack I still got sick feeling. And it had to be right after I ate, if I waited 30-45 min I'd get sick.

[bhikkhu]

27. What if it has nothing to do with quitting smoking?

Some people (younger people, generally), in response to marketing and peer pressure and so forth, may never want to smoke but may get into e-cigs because they're the cool new thing.

That they may help people quit smoking isn't much of an issue to opponents, so centering a debate around that isn't really to the point.

[alittlelark]

36. If they are that shallow and needy, they will get into worse things...

than vaping.

[phleshdef]

39. And if they get into e-cigs, thats good, because they'd otherwise probably get into the real thing.

[bhikkhu]

87. Maybe not "good", but much less harm, and easy to stop using

I tried them myself for a time, but stopped after a month when it was no longer convenient. It wasn't a big deal.

[SirRevolutionary]

116. The whole "what about the kids" argument is an appeal to emotion

Of course everyone would likely agree to keep the technology off limits to kids legally. Will some inevitably end up getting their hands on it anyway? Yup, pretty much. Just like they get into cigarettes, drugs, alcohol, porn, sex, you name it.

Basically, everything we know of in society that is "for adults only" is the cool new thing for every generation of kids.

[awoke_in_2003]

29. I am 46...

and have smoked a pack a day since I was 16. I haven't bought cigarettes in 3 months thanks to e cigs. For the record, I don't use it around non smokers. There is still a stigma attached to them, and truthfully we don't fully know the affects of being around them. So, like I have always done, I go outside to partake. The difference is, I am not outside as long, and I don't stink. Oh, and I have dropped from 18% strength to 6.

[jtuck004]

30. The trick is to get your nicotine high enough that it satisfies what you had before,

Last edited Tue Mar 18, 2014, 01:26 AM - Edit history (3)

If you were a confirmed, inveterate pack-nd-a-half-a-day or so smoker, try 36 mg /ml nicotine. Get the cigs away from you (I forgot about mine, they were laying out on a table but I didn't think to reach for them for several days after I discovered the secret of enough nicotine in the first place). Find a vaper shop that is committed to getting smokers off of tobacco cigs - those for whom it is a mission. They will help.

You will very likely find yourself cutting down on the nicotine in a month or so, much easier than cigs since you still have the vapor.

I wanted small, unobtrusive, so I got a black Ego-c, and then used the battery from that on a Kanger Mini Pro Tank II - works out of the box. I swap them back and forth. I can rebuild the wick in the Kanger, but they are only a few dollars every 2 or 3 weeks for the ego. Nearly covered by my hand.

Get 2, and at least 4-6 batteries. (I have 3 now). You can do this for less than $50 a pipe. You will need some atomizers, alcohol and cotton swabs for frequent cleaning. Remember - you need for this to work 24x7 without fail, and the only way you can do that until you learn a bit is to have two, so one can be out of commission for a few days while you order the stuff you forgot. Which is why I got 3.

Get a flavor of liquid you LIKE. My first was a tobacco-like flavor with mango, sweet orange, root beer, and a Red Bull flavor. When you need a cig, go suck on it. It will kill your craving - get away from others, get away from smokers. Learn to be comfortable with it - it's clumsy at first.

Put a lanyard on the vaping pipe (it's not an e-cig anymore - it's a substitute). Keep it around. Get a case (1/2" pvc cut to length, two caps ($1.75) holds mine in my pocket, don't have to worry about breaking. Or you can buy the huge $6 one off ebay.

Good info here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/

Trained on these, I suspect any state that wanted to have an impact on smokers could buy these with all the stuff for less tha n$100 a person and distribute it to people who smoke, and drop the smoking rate in their state by 50%.

Given that we will spend tens of millions each year in perpetuity on these bullshit telephone programs and pills that make you want to clean your guns and patches and gum, all of which combine to give us success rates, after all the hooplah, in the single digits, and spending on the health care related to cigarettes is likely in the billions, I am not sure a health department that is not at least investigating buying all these for all the smokers in their state is doing its job.

I haven't found much in the way of competent authority who will commit to the mix of vegetable glycerin, distilled water, propylene glycol (like your dr gives you to drink b4 a colonoscopy), some varied kinds of alchohol-based perfumes, and perhaps nicotine, being anything but likely to be much safer than burning tobacco and inhaling that and the tars and chemicals that are primarily linked to cancer.

Oh, yeah, I'm in favor of them.

On edit - Also, not all setups use the USB port in your computer to charge the batts very well. Often times get better results with the adapter and wall socket. I think it provides more amps to the charge. Batteries certainly act differently from the wall socket.

[JackInGreen]

33. Have you tried the coffee flavors?

It's one of the few fluids I've used that have had me asked to blow vape AT people so they can smell it again.

[jtuck004]

34. I like VirginVapers Organic Kona Milkshake, and the shop near my house

sells a "coffee" flavor that is good. But the dark flavors clog up the atomizer too quickly, so I wind up diluting them with those that are clear.

I usually wind up mixing some of my Toffee, Peach, Mango or others to get other flavor combos, and I have plans to get the some ingredients and mix my own.

Cignot (great people) sell a couple of pretty good coffee flavors too.

It's funny they have to ask. Unless they see you, people have no idea you are vaping. That's one of the real benefits.

[ohheckyeah]

50. So far coffee flavor is my favorite. n/t

[tridim]

81. I love the deep mint flavors.

Halo Subzero is incredible.

I never smoked menthols, but love the real mint flavor in e-cigs. The fake "tobacco" flavor just doesn't do it for me.

[Live and Learn]

68. +1 nt

[DisgustipatedinCA]

103. I've been learning that the expensive way.

I started with the twin pack of e-cigarettes that are each about the size of a pen. I just wasn't getting the knock-me-over hit that nicotine addicts are looking for. I ended up buying a new e-cigarette last week called the ProVari, which is about the size of a large cigar. As the name suggests, it's a variable voltage unit, so you can get more or less vapor depending on the juice you're using. It wasn't cheap, but it really is beginning to replace cigarettes for me. I am still smoking some, but not nearly as much as I was just a week ago.

[jtuck004]

108. One of these days you will stand next to a smoker and realize you have changed.

And at that moment you realize you can smell again.

There is a vaper forum at http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ <- Lots of very helpful info

I was fortunate that I only had a limited amount to spend to start, so I ran into the small portables. I've spent as much on those as I would have a Provari but that gave me backups. Even so, at $9 or so a pack like cigs are in WA state, it doesn't take long at all to recover that cost.

Joyetech came out with a small variable voltage battery, which I use, and that gives me some of those features. I have to keep a charged one or two around all the time.

I'm really glad it is starting to work for you. I really do think there ought to be some consultation with people. Some information we think we know about nicotine, levels, what they might expect, things that alter it, how to use 3 or 4 different vaping pipes, etc. Maybe a helpline...might be one, haven't seen it marketed. I should open a kiosk.

It was just by chance my wife saw the coupons on the back of the receipt at the store. She knew I was trying them, but , and she knew I was playing with them so she gave it to me. And it was just by chance I ran into a clerk whose Mission in life was to convert tobacco smokers to these, and she used high nicotine levels in the beginning to do it.

I thought I had found THE store. Unfortunately, the grocery store they contracted with printed just bushels of their coupons, so now they aren't taking them. Sign on front door - "We are not taking coupons". I REALLY liked that store, and I REALLY hate that they are handling it like this. The store may have printed many more than they expected, but this strategy, I think, will cost them customers. I went in the other day and the woman was reading her bible on the couch. She is the very nicest person, and frequently hits off her Provari that she carries. I just can't go back in as much because I hate being given something only to be told I can't have it. And there is a LOT of competition, very good competition, and... Anyway, I think it is shortsighted of them. I have never had to wait on anyone, they really don't seem very busy. But maybe they make it up in volume. <G> Their prices aren't too bad.

I am an operator and fixer of things, so the whole mixing and rebuilding that one can with these if they wish is right up my alley. Lots of youtube stuff on this.

Congratulations on what you've done so far, however. I don't know if it will be the same for you, but I smoked tobacco for 42 years, and I still find myself reaching for them. Mine went around my neck on a lanyard until I could put it in my pocket and set it down once in a while. Harder to do with the Provari. Regardless, if you have it in hand 24x7, and you find a mix that satisfies your cravings, it will be there, instead, as a substitute. And perhaps the more you use the substitute the more you get used to it.

Kick back and take your medicine

[DisgustipatedinCA]

112. Thank you for the detailed reply

And also for the forum link. I may go peruse it and see if I can find recommendations for a cherry vanilla flavor, which I think I'd like.

thanks again.

[Egnever]

115. A provari is a great choice!

It is not something i would recommend to a new vaper just because of the price, but it is an awesome device. Rock solid performance that you can depend on.

As the poster above me suggested the ECF forums are a great resource for all kinds of info from juices to devices to legislation and just about anything else you can think of.

Best of luck to you.

What worked for me was finding a flavor i loved at the right nic level as soon as i found that i never touched real cigarettes again. I dont know how many choices you have where you live but I cant recommend highly enough trying as many juices as you can till you find a flavor you just love. Also try things you wouldn't expect to like sometimes you get surprised, my all day juice is something called swagger by pink spot that is some sort of caramel,creme maybe bourbon flavor mix. It is freaking delicious and I have yet to vape anywhere where people dont love the smell of it.

[JackInGreen]

31. My wife and I quit smoking when we moved into our new home with our son.

Or we were supposed to, I did pretty alright after a week of cold turkey (2 years of start and stop quitting after 5 years not smoking at all, the first steps got easy), she on the other hand had a harder time. She started sneaking smokes at work, keeping a pack there, bumming off of co-workers and friends in social situations. She kept it out of the house (as much as one can) and I credit her for that.
A friend mentioned vaping, and I was very against it at first. We were trying to quit at the time, so the only thing I saw was a way to 'not quit' smoking.
So, I quit, she kept it a secret, and really REALLY hated herself for it.
(honestly, I couldn't be angry, we'd been trying this for a long time)
I decided to swallow my pride, do some research, and normalize myself to the fact that the FACTS as they were, weren't on my side in making smoking and vaping equivalent in my mind. So we went shopping, she picked up a nice vaporizer and a couple of bottles of 'low octane' fluid, it cost us about $60.00 all told.
She was instantaneously a much happier person. She didn't smell like cigarettes, still kept it out of the house, and was no longer wheezing or losing her breath.
Not long after I found I missed smoking, and it was a point I'd encountered before, the point that often had brought me right back to sneaking a pack of newports or otherwise. Instead I sunk some money into a vape of my own, with no-nicotine fluid. I missed the smoking, the flavor, the sense of something in my lungs. I DID NOT miss the wheeze, the tiredness, the thrashing heart, the smell, or the expense.
My son said that I'd invested in the worlds most expensive vapor lollipop. If it kept us from smoking, so effing be it.
We're still not smoking.

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. It simply substitutes a different delivery mechanism for the addictive chemical.

"The best way to quit smoking" is to stop ingesting nicotine. Chantix works well if you need help, and the fact that help is needed should be scary enough, by itself, to justify getting away from the addiction.

[alittlelark]

37. You may not have been reading all the posts in this thread...

almost everyone is at 0 nicotine after a few months.

[phleshdef]

38. Chantix is awful and can cause suicidal thoughts for some people.

Nope, I'll stick with e-cig based nicotine before I ever take anything like that. Besides I don't WANT to stop ingesting nicotine. But I do want to enjoy it in the most healthy way possible. E-cigs accomplish that. I think that's what bothers opponents the most, we get to enjoy our habit and decrease our chances of dying from lung cancer tremendously and considering the vapor doesn't cause damage, I won't have to worry about COPD either. We get to have our cake and eat it too and that bothers people.

[ejpoeta]

75. My husband used chantix. he just kept smoking and he smoked

less and less until he quit. But it doesn't work for everyone. I don't know what the big objection to the ecigs is. I mean, people complain about the smoke from the cigarettes and the second hand smoke.... one would think they would be glad for ecigarettes. It seems as though they just don't want anyone smoking anything. I used to smoke. Not as bad as my husband. I could only smoke certain kinds of cigarettes. I quit when I was pregnant with my oldest child. I have a hard time with cigarette smoke now. But I do not believe I should stop others from smoking.... just don't do it in my direction. But I digress.... if someone switches to ecigs, they may find it easier to quit.... and they aren't disturbing me with the smell. win/win. what's the problem!! sure, it would be great if they would get out from under it, but who am I to decide what they can or can't do? you remove many of the chemicals in the cigarettes which seem to be the main cause for the health risks. Nicotine may not be great, but is it any worse than alcohol? I don't know, but I just know that people are bitching about the cigarette smell and the ecigs don't have the smell..... so stop bitching.

[Egnever]

111. Agreed Chantix is god awful.

All kinds of nasty side effects from that poison. It can be effective to be sure but the cure can be much worse than the disease.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

118. Chanitx + TX + guns = a really bad combination

My sister knew a guy who died this way. He played in Edie Brickell's band and several other bands in the Dallas area, which is why there's a Wikipedia entry for him (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Albrecht#Death).

He was on Chantix, got drunk, got rowdy, and got shot by the neighbor through the door.

No, Chantix by itself cannot be blamed for this death, but I want nothing to do with the stuff.

[Comrade Grumpy]

44. A much less harmful delivery mechanism. NO SMOKE!

[TheKentuckian]

47. It isn't that simple because the difference in the delivery system is extreme.

The overwhelming majority of the danger to the user and others with cigarettes IS the delivery. No question that nicotine is an addictive chemical but that is heavily evasive of the major issues with smoking. I will also argue that the cigarettes themselves or much more demanding and intense addiction.

There are plenty of other chemicals and substances to be addicted to in those things and then we can't forget for a moment the carcinogenic effects. I don't really think anyone is about to go on any crusades about nicotine separated from the traditional delivery systems. It is the smoking that is the meat of the issue, the nicotine it's self you may as well be flipping about caffeine.

If you are going to start the second hand nicotine stuff, it is laughable and very difficult to support. Damn near anti vaxer territory.

[ohheckyeah]

52. yeah...Chantix sounds so much better:

Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction: hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat.

Stop using this medication and call your doctor at once if you have any mood or behavior changes, confusion, anxiety, panic attacks, hallucinations, extreme fear, or if you feel impulsive, agitated, aggressive, restless, hostile, depressed, hyperactive (mentally or physically), or have thoughts about suicide or hurting yourself.

Your family or other caregivers should also be alert to changes in your mood or behavior.

Call your doctor at once if you have any of these other serious side effects:

chest pain or pressure, tight feeling in your neck or jaw, pain spreading to your arm or shoulder, vomiting, sweating, general ill feeling;
feeling light-headed or short of breath;
sudden numbness or weakness, especially on one side of the body;
sudden severe headache, confusion, problems with vision, speech, or balance;
easy bruising, unusual bleeding, blood in your urine or stools, coughing up blood or vomit that looks like coffee grounds;
fever, sore throat, and headache with a severe blistering, peeling, and red skin rash; or
the first sign of any blistering type of skin rash, no matter how mild.

Less serious side effects may include:

nausea (may persist for several months);
stomach pain, indigestion, constipation, gas;
weakness, tired feeling;
dry mouth, unpleasant taste in your mouth;
headache; or
sleep problems (insomnia) or unusual dreams.

[GeorgeGist]

71. I used it. It worked for me. No problems.

To each his/her own.

[Bonobo]

55. People here are telling you the best way.

[lumberjack_jeff]

86. It is often a rationalization for the choice to not confront the addiction.

The addiction is a sufficiently bad thing, in and of itself, to do something about it.

I have a big problem with powerlessness, helplessness and lack of agency. I'm unsympathetic to the argument that one is compelled to give the e-cig companies their money because the alternative is to give it to RJ Reynolds. Particularly when RJ Reynolds is the e-cig company.

Addiction sucks, even when it's bubblegum flavored.

I don't personally know anyone who used e-cigs to quit nicotine.

[JackInGreen]

70. Chantix...really.

I think keeping smoking would have been better than that list of possible side effects. I'll stick with my mint mocha tailored coffee in non-nicotine thank you very much, and you can take that pharma and throw it out the window.

[Skittles]

78. I used patches and lozanges to help me quit cigs

many people just cannot fathom the cold turkey thing.......I think E-cigs are just another help-quit tool that, yes, gives you the nicotine, except that it mimics the actual smoking - they should be regulated just like any other nicotine product

[jeff47]

94. Nicotine is actually safer than caffiene.

And I don't see you calling for a ban on coffee.

It's all the other crap in tobacco smoke that is dangerous. The nicotine is pretty safe. It's nearly impossible to overdose on it.

However, every e-cig user I know has reduced the nicotine level over time, many to the point where they're using fluid with no nicotine. (I have no personal experience on that - I'm a non-smoker)

[Oilwellian]

101. You're simply wrong

Cigarettes have many different chemicals that are very addictive. That's why they're added to the cigarettes. Once I started vaping, I worked my way from 36 mg. down to 0 mg. of nicotine within 6 months time and it wasn't that difficult to do. I didn't notice any symptoms of withdrawal, whatsoever.

You may want to rethink recommending Chantix to someone who wants to quit smoking. Considering its side effects, a person is better off smoking cigarettes.

Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction: hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat.

Stop using this medication and call your doctor at once if you have any mood or behavior changes, confusion, anxiety, panic attacks, hallucinations, extreme fear, or if you feel impulsive, agitated, aggressive, restless, hostile, depressed, hyperactive (mentally or physically), or have thoughts about suicide or hurting yourself.

Your family or other caregivers should also be alert to changes in your mood or behavior.

Call your doctor at once if you have any of these other serious side effects:

chest pain or pressure, tight feeling in your neck or jaw, pain spreading to your arm or shoulder, vomiting, sweating, general ill feeling;
feeling light-headed or short of breath;
sudden numbness or weakness, especially on one side of the body;
sudden severe headache, confusion, problems with vision, speech, or balance;
easy bruising, unusual bleeding, blood in your urine or stools, coughing up blood or vomit that looks like coffee grounds;
fever, sore throat, and headache with a severe blistering, peeling, and red skin rash; or
the first sign of any blistering type of skin rash, no matter how mild.

Less serious side effects may include:

nausea (may persist for several months);
stomach pain, indigestion, constipation, gas;
weakness, tired feeling;
dry mouth, unpleasant taste in your mouth;
headache; or
sleep problems (insomnia) or unusual dreams.

This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur. Call your doctor for medical advice about side effects. You may report side effects to FDA at 1-800-FDA-1088.

http://www.rxlist.com/chantix-side-effects-drug-center.htm

[Demit]

105. So what?

So what if people keep their addiction to nicotine?

The thing is to quit SMOKING. It's the SMOKING that's deleterious.

It's socially acceptable to have an addiction to caffeine. People joke about needing their coffee in the morning, and everyone laughs indulgently, and doesn't give it a second thought. Why should this be different?

[SheilaT]

40. Okay, so the anecdotal evidence that these things

are very helpful for long term, hard core cigarette smokers to give up actual tobacco.

But what if newbies take them up on the theory that at least they're not cigarettes. Isn't nicotine still bad for you? What if this just encourages a whole new generation to actually take up smoking/nicotine ingestion?

[ohheckyeah]

53. Lots of things are bad for you.

There's another whole new generation addicted to caffeine and sugar.

[SheilaT]

84. While caffeine and sugar in excess

are not good, they are not any where near as terrible as tobacco and nicotine.

[Demit]

106. You have to get it into your head to separate tobacco & nicotine.

They are not synonymous. It is the SMOKING OF TOBACCO that is so bad for you. Nicotine is not the harmful substance. It's the inhaling of the tar & chemicals from the combustion.

[JackInGreen]

72. I'd encourage them to go with a non-nicotine fluid for vaporizing so they're not giving themselves

anything than an oral fixation (and a pretty smelling cloud) and tell them to enjoy themselves responsibly.

[jeff47]

95. Nicotine's safer than caffeine.

When you're talking about the pure chemicals, nicotine has a much higher LD50, and it's virtually impossible to ingest enough nicotine to cause physical harm. It's possible (though very difficult) to ingest enough caffeine to cause harm.

You can probably think of the two drugs as equivalent.

[zappaman]

41. I read a DUer saying they had an asthma attack due to someone vaping nearby!

So, that means it's awful cuz that totally happened!

[alittlelark]

43. ^^^ This ^^^

[Live and Learn]

69. LOL Yeah, I've read of others that got a headache from it.

And we all know that nobody gets a headache or asthma attack for any other reason. Must be the e-cig, no other proof needed,

[SirRevolutionary]

100. I know a guy who knows a dude who knows a zombie

who blames ecigs for his undead flesh-devouring plight.

[fizzgig]

45. i'm wrapping up day four of no cigs

the vaping is really helping. i can go through the routine and ritual of smoking and still get my fix. i got the menthol flavor and that's helping, too.

i still go outside a lot, but it's nice to not have to. the only physical benefit i'm feeling right now is that i'm bringing up a lot less nasty crap in the morning, but that's great.

[zappaman]

46. People are getting asthma attacks from secondhand vapor!!!

"I got an asthma attack around one of these just the other day. "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4646698

[Rex]

51. Oh Jesus!

I guessed who it was! What do I win!?

[ohheckyeah]

54. I believe the poster had an asthma attack..

but I don't believe it was second hand vapor. Have you seen how quickly the vapor dissipates?

[Bonobo]

56. It may have been radiation from Fookoshimer. nt

[JackInGreen]

73. Oh for the love of....

every time I think that maybe there's common ground, I see that fanatic face staring out from between the hairs and I end up shrinking back.

[Skittles]

79. just like people who sneeze when they see a cat

even though the cat has been in the room with them unseen for a couple of hours

[smokey nj]

102. That thread is hilarious!

If she had an asthma attack from an e-cig, I'm a freakin' supermodel.

[Ghost in the Machine]

48. I went from 3 packs/day to less than 1 pack in over 24 hours. That is HUGE for me! I used to get

nervous when I got below 2 packs on hand. Oh, and the liquid I use contains NO nicotine, either. My son bought it for me as a present, and it's one of the best presents I ever got!

I hope to be fully quit from the real cigs within the next few months.

Peace,

Ghost

[TheKentuckian]

49. Almost a year cigarette free and berry flavors worked and continue to work well for me.

I found it provides a complete divorce from my smoking habit. I played around with dozens of tobacco flavors and none were satisfying and stoked the desire for the real thing. One day I saw a bottom of the mixed berry next to my most tolerable tobacco and decided to give it a shot and never looked back on the stinkies.

There are some folks that haven't a clue what they are talking about on this topic at all, fucking Smoke War vets looking for new campaigns, re - fighting the last war.

[Warpy]

57. When you order flavors at first, the smoky one should be in the smallest quantity

A lot of people have told me they started to taste things again 10 days to two weeks out and the smoke flavor is just plain nasty and they have to switch it out.

I've seen a lot of people taper themselves down on the nicotine without even thinking about it. They only take enough hits off an e cig to shut off the cravings instead of compulsively smoking an expensive butt down to the filter to get their money's worth.

The advantages are so many and the liabilities so much fewer than burning tobacco and inhaling the concentrated hot smoke that I'd hate to see them heavily regulated except for purity of content, uniformity of dosage, and safety.

I'm not all that alarmed at seeing teenagers using them. Kids are going to do stupid, risky stuff no matter what and this at least reduces the harm. The "real thing" will be unappealing to them after the e-cig flavored with something nice, like chocolate or strawberry.

[Demit]

107. Tapering off the nicotine without realizing it has been my experience.

For exactly the reason you state: only taking a vaping puff once in awhile, instead of how I used to automatically smoke a whole cigarette so that I wouldn't waste it.

It has been such a surprise to me. I never thought I would quit. But it is happening.

[pnwmom]

60. Anecdotal info is well and good, but it's too bad that the e-cig manufacturers

won a lawsuit to force the FDA to class e-cigs as a tobacco product, so they could be exempt from scientifically proving the safety and efficacy of e-cigs as a smoking cessation device.

[Bluenorthwest]

88. Where's your link to support your asserted motivation for that suit?

You keep repeating it. You never support it. It's about product placement. It burns you that people are quitting smoking with some assistance, I understand that.
In the adoptee thread, your anecdotal tales were asserted as valid forms of communication, but of course that was your anecdote, not that of another, so obviously it is superior.
If you sell a product for 'smoking cessation' you can not sell it next to cigarettes. If you wish to provide an option to smokers, you want your option next to the cigarettes.
These laws protect tobacco companies, the laws that say 'no options next to us'.

Other entities and governments are doing large studies which you can later dismiss for being not being American, but the world is a small place these days, and other nations see a health benefit as worth pursuing, so they are pursuing. You can not stop them from doing so, nor from sharing what they learn with the world. Get ready to discredit on the basis of 'not US made study, FDA, FDA!!!!'

[pnwmom]

93. I've posted this information a number of times, and from different sources.

Here's the first thing I found on google today.

http://www.ctri.wisc.edu/Smokers/ecigs/cpht.pdf

What is the legal status of e-cigarettes?

The FDA will regulate e-cigarettes under its authority to regulate other tobacco products. The FDA at one time detained or blocked incoming shipments of e-cigarettes from overseas manufacturers on the basis that e-cigarettes are unapproved drug delivery devices that must pass through the FDA’s New Drug Application (NDA) process before they can legally be sold. 21 Two e-cigarette importers and distributers, Smoking Everywhere, Inc. and Sottera, Inc., brought a lawsuit against the FDA and sought a preliminary injunction to prevent the FDA from regulating e-cigarettes as a drug delivery device and from stopping the importation of e-cigarettes into the U.S. while the case is ongoing.22 The e-cigarette distributors argued that because their products use nicotine derived from tobacco, e-cigarettes should be regulated as “tobacco products,” subject to much more limited restrictions that do not require pre-approval by the FDA. The United States District Court for the District of Columbia granted the preliminary injunction. This ruling was affirmed by the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit in December 2010.23 In April of 2011, the FDA decided it would not seek further review of this decision, but rather will regulate e-cigarettes as tobacco products under the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act in accordance with the court’s opinion. 24

[Straw Man]

64. I quit smoking the old-fashioned way ...

... in 1993. Never had an e-cig myself, but my girlfriend, who is in her '40s and has been a smoker since her teens, is using the e-cig to cut down on the bad old kind. It's working. She smokes real cigs very little when I'm around (to my great relief), and usually leaves the smokes at home and takes her e-cig when she goes out.

I love the frickin' thing. It has all but eliminated the one potential stumbling block in our relationship.

[JustAnotherGen]

76. Two years smoke free

After a year of e ciggy butts!

[NCTraveler]

89. Congratulations are in order for your son.

Probably one of the best decisions he will ever make in his life. I support the manufacture and sale of e cigs with what is currently known. I also support legislation that would ban advertising them to children. I also want to see the FDA regulate the "juice". Right now many people are "vaping" juices and there is no way to know what is in them. A retail center near me mixes their own "juice".

Quitting smoking is one of the best things anyone can do. E cigs do seem to be helping those where traditional methods have failed.

[Bluenorthwest]

91. 8 months no smoking, whole new life.

The anti vape crowd is also the 'anti everything' crowd, they tend to be religious, to promote and defend 'anti choice' figures, the works. They are against stuff. Especially stuff that helps others. They oppose for unsubstantiated reasons, and reject support that comes in the form of thousands of former smokers.

[Aristus]

92. I'm posting this without reading the replies above.

My main concern with vaping is that the cigarette companies, anticipating the loss of revenue as smokers quit cigarettes, will begin to add substances to vaping nicotine designed to keep people hooked on it, just like they did with cigarettes. And while vapers may no longer be inhaling the by-products of combustion, (i.e. CO2, CO, tar, etc) they could be exposing themselves to the kinds of things that the tobacco companies have been putting in cigarettes for years. Things like ammonia (which enables the body to absorb nicotine faster, thereby becoming addicted more quickly), methane, strychnine, etc. These substances are toxic all by themselves.

So, while vapers may be able to convince themselves that there's no harm in nicotine itself (not a completely valid belief, BTW), it's hard to shrug off the harmful potential effects of strychnine, etc...

[OregonBlue]

97. Simple solution, don't buy your juice from major tobacco companies. Most of the best vendors buy

their own ingredients and mix their own liquids. They are small mom/pop operations. Or better still, buy the ingredients and mix them yourself. It's easy and not even very time consuming.

[SirRevolutionary]

114. I believe you're right about Big Tobacco

they have a crap track record, don't they? But 1) should we stand by and allow them to monopolize a technology so the only place people can get vapes is through them? And 2) I hope you feel the same way about all the American food we're consuming owned by those very same Big Tobacco companies http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/settlement/big/owns.html

Keeping the technology separate in some way so the greedy corps can't monopolize it is a priority, not just for vapes but food, and everything else we purchase. There are already countless American-based organic ejuice manufacturers.

Like everything else, as soon as corporate America starts buying up all the small companies to eliminate competition, we'll be facing a monopoly where your only choice is to buy the technology through them. The technology in and of itself is extraordinarily helpful and holds the promise to end analog cigarette smoking as we know it.

[demtenjeep]

109. thank you for all the suggestions, support and information

I am thinking Tomorrow is the day. Batteries are on chargers, I have chosen the cowboy menthol and something called swagger for a change.

I know I can do this!

I am also very encouraged reading your successes.

[SirRevolutionary]

117. Congrats demtenjeep!

Just don't worry about quitting at first, use the vapes while you're smoking if you want and you'll be surprised how quickly you'll likely prefer them over cigs and you'll end up just walking away from them in time. Quitting cigs has never been easier. I raise my vape to your future success

[Egnever]

113. 18 months of vaping.

Real cigs now make me ill. Tried everything to quit before with short spurts of success only to return to it.

Have gone from 36mg nic down to 6 in that time and will likely move to 0 nic soon. After that it will just be a matter of putting the thing away.

Vaping has been an incredible boon to my over all health. I breathe better I can smell again (sometimes not so great) and my surroundings no longer smell like smoke.

The key for me quitting was finding the right flavor at the right nic level to satisfy me in the beginning. At this point I could likely just put the thing down as I sometimes go hours without ever thinking about it. I never have the panic I used to have when i ran out of cigs.

I have saved at this point at least 2 thousand dollars. I would likely have saved more but I now have a mod addiction...I love the new gadgets. I buy some juices and make some of my own.

I find the the whole "they" argument to be incredibly funny since the ecigs made by the big companies are garbage. If you want a good experience with vaping get a mechanical mod or a VV and a decent tank and go to town on some homegrown juice.

[idendoit]

120. Can you be sure you're not inhaling fracking fluid?