Utah ‘goblin topplers’ sentenced to probation

[n2doc]

By Marissa LangAnd Brett Prettyman | The Salt Lake Tribune

Castle Dale • Utah’s so-called goblin topplers, Glenn Tuck Taylor and David Benjamin Hall, may have to shell out thousands to pay for warning signs telling future visitors to Goblin Valley State Park to leave the rocks alone — advice, Taylor said Tuesday, he wished they had followed last year.

The men were sentenced Tuesday afternoon to a year of probation and no jail time after pleading guilty to knocking over an ancient rock formation in the state park.

They will be required to pay an amount yet to be determined, which the state will use to erect warning signs throughout the park, officials said.

Taylor, 45, who physically pushed over the hoodoo, was charged in Castle Dale’s 7th District Court with third-degree felony criminal mischief. Hall, 42, who videotaped the incident, was charged with aiding and assisting in criminal mischief, also a third-degree felony.

Both charges were punishable by up to five years in prison had the men been convicted.

But each pleaded guilty Tuesday to lesser class A misdemeanors — Taylor to criminal mischief, Hall to attempted criminal mischief.

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http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57695025-78/taylor-state-hall-goblin.html.csp

[leftyohiolib]

1. anyone think this is ok? he pushed a rock over in a park and could get 5 years in prison?

why is pushing a rock formation over punishable?- how is that criminal? what about picking wild flowers prison time for that?

[FSogol]

2. So, any dumbass can destroy our parks and it is ok with you?

[leftyohiolib]

5. that's your definition of destroy? no destroying the park is not ok- but that's not what they did

[FSogol]

7. You understand that they destroyed an ancient rock formation, right?

Your analysis of knocked over a rock or picked some wild flowers is pathetic.

Do us all a favor and stay out of the parks with your attitude.

[leftyohiolib]

9. i dont think it deserves a prison term and knocking over that rock is not destroying a park

jeez get a grip

[FSogol]

11. Did they get a prison term? Stop defending vandalism in the parks. n/t

[leftyohiolib]

13. no but they could have and seeing as how someone could, like i said, lose their jobs and their homes

i just asked if it was appropriate. apprarently you have no problem with someone taking a hit like that over a rock formation

[FSogol]

14. I have no problem with tried and convicted criminals being held accountable

for their crimes. Maybe they should not have vandalized the park if they were worried about their mortgages, careers, and reputations. They clearly were not worried since they filmed their crime while laughing and hooting it up. They made their own bed.

[leftyohiolib]

17. good point what about people who are living here illegally and have family here, any problem

with them being deported

[FSogol]

20. I have no problem with granting visas and providing a path to citizenship

for immigrants, even ones who arrived illegally, were brought as children, or who overstayed visas.

[leftyohiolib]

27. that's good but that's not what i asked.

[frylock]

29. and what about apples? should the oranges continue deporting them..

or should that be left to the authority of the strawmen?

[enlightenment]

19. To answer your question -

yes, it would have been appropriate.

Using your "logic" that it isn't a big deal to destroy the environment of a public space, one has to assume you wouldn't have a problem with someone defacing the rock carvings at Petroglyph National Monument - or taking a chainsaw to an old growth tree in Redwood National Park - or taking a backhoe to one of the mounds at Hopewell National Park.

Public lands are public. They belong to all of us. Having brains the size of dried peas is no excuse for wanton vandalism. They deserved, at the VERY least, public humiliation to go along with their probation and fines - and a few months in jail might have taught them, finally, the lessons that they clearly failed to learn in four decades on the planet.

[leftyohiolib]

21. the park is not destroyed. i cant equate knocking over a rock to detroying a park. but i was asking

so thanks for the answer

[Gormy Cuss]

38. Understand that the potential penalty is high to dissuade all potential vandals.

If the maximum penalty were trivial, say $100 or a weekend in jail, there'd be few hoodoos left and the wild flowers would be picked clean in any easily accessible area of a public park.

That's why the potential penalty is steep and why the sentence here is appropriate.

[treestar]

69. It's an ancient formation

having value above just being a pile of rocks.

[frylock]

28. yeah, tough shit..

things to consider prior to vandalizing ancient formations, filming it, and posting it on the internet.

[jwirr]

24. Those ancient rock formation are the reason that is a park at all. They are not just something

laying around. They are THE park. Most of us know little about the area but we have all seen pictures of those formations.

[leftyohiolib]

26. now that theyre gone will they remove the park?

[jwirr]

37. It is possible since visitation data could fall and funding be cut for this park. It would not be

the first park to be closed due to lack of interest.

[CBGLuthier]

4. That rock formation was there for millennia until two assholes came along

and just for shits and giggles destroyed it. Yeah, I would like to see them go to jail. they knew what they were doing was prohibited.

Wild flowers, your piss-poor excuse for an analogy grow fresh every year.

[leftyohiolib]

8. and the rocks are still there and you would be happy to throw two people in prison

lose their jobs maybe their homes for a rock formation regardless of how long it's been there?

[FSogol]

10. I bet if they vandalized your home, you'd be singing a different tune.

[leftyohiolib]

18. you know i completely see your point cause my house and a rock formation are the same thing

sorry but i didnt realize you lived in that rock formation.

[FSogol]

22. Hope no one tips over the rocks in your head.

Parks are public property. You don't seem to care about them, but I guarantee you care about your personal property.

[frylock]

31. no, your house can be rebuilt in a matter of months..

what the fuck is your deal? really? what do you suppose should have happened to these two fuckwads?

[leftyohiolib]

49. fine and community service

my fucking deal is that these are fucking rocks and not worth destroying someone's life over

[Adrahil]

61. These aren't just ANY "fucking rocks" though. NT

[leftyohiolib]

62. rocks are not something over which people should be turned into felons

[blindersoff]

86. they turned themselves into criminals

by doing such a stupid stunt. Similar to defacing petroglyphs in a way.

[leftyohiolib]

87. still undeserving of felon status

[Adrahil]

42. You don't see the value of natural wonders?

Your argument would seem to back the destruction of any natural wonder. I think they are worth protecting. That formation stood fro thousands and thousands of years. That ass hat topples it over and you're like "what's the big deal?"

[leftyohiolib]

50. see post 49 -

[philosslayer]

59. No one says it isn't a big deal

Obviously it is. But does this warrant a prison sentence? Taking fathers away from their children for years? Destroying two families?

These guys are clearly not too bright, but I think a stiff fine and some significant community service would be much more appropriate and instructive.

[Adrahil]

60. Well, he DIDN'T get a prison sentence, but...

... I certainly think there are times when a sentence could be warranted.

This guy didn't realize he was being a dumb-ass, so the probation was warranted, IMO. But what about if he had been deliberately vandalizing the formations?

[philosslayer]

68. That would be a different story

These guys were stupid, not malicious

[Mariana]

75. That's why they didn't get prison sentences. nt.

[leftyohiolib]

63. thankyou you'd think that on a progressive forum you'd find more compassion for people over rocks

[LanternWaste]

85. Both a rock and a house are inanimate object with value assigned via perception.

Both a rock and a house are inanimate object with value assigned via perception and imagination.



"my house and a rock formation are the same thing.."
That being said, I don't think anyone (other than the sub-literate or under-educated) believe that rocks and houses are "the same thing", however, I can certainly understand the melodramatic desire to conflate it as such if that is the only premise one has available...

[HERVEPA]

53. Dear RightyOhioTeabagger

Do you realize just how stupid your posts are?

[leftyohiolib]

54. wow a name caller calling me right-wing how very right-wingy of you. anything constructive or just

childish name calling

[HERVEPA]

55. Have some respect for the environment and history if you want respect.

[leftyohiolib]

56. i dont need your respect and you know nothing about me.anyting constructive?

[HERVEPA]

58. I know plenty about you just from these posts.

[leftyohiolib]

65. well then i bet you can judge people by the clothes they wear or the color of their skin as well

[HERVEPA]

84. Great comparison

Try a Logic 101 course

[treestar]

70. It's been there a lot longer than they have been alive

and would have been there for much longer and be a geological value for study, etc.

And people have left it alone for millennia up until now.

[JJChambers]

6. It's felony criminal mischief

I see it on par with him destroying a work of art that didn't belong to him. Prison is fine.

[leftyohiolib]

12. i know it has been catagorized f.c.m. im just asking if 5 years in prison is appropriate

since these people may lose their homes and jobs is it worth it

[JJChambers]

16. I'm sure everyone will have a different answer to that question

I think yes, it's appropriate. Actions can, and should, have consequences.

[Chan790]

77. How many people have to say "yes" before you concede you are wrong? n/t

[AngryAmish]

30. Another authoritarian here

Make everything a crime. Put everyone in jail. Then we will be safe.

[JJChambers]

33. Lol, I would rather be an realistic authoritarian than a naive utopian dreamer

Like it or not, there are certain things that should be crimes. Damaging works of art, be they natural or man made, should be (and is!) criminal.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people on this board and in society simply think nothing should be criminal, or refuse to take responsibility for their actions. A large subset of the population seems to believe that their actions shouldn't have consequences.

This authoritarian will be there every step of the way rooting for the state when it comes to prosecuting people who intentionally inflict damage like these guys did.

[phleshdef]

15. No, regardless of how idiotic these guys were, I think 5 years in prison for that is also idiotic.

If they had set out with the intent to purposefully destroy something valuable, then yea, prison time makes sense. But considering that they were just idiots who thought they were disarming a dangerous situation and considering that no living thing was actually harmed by it, probation and paying money out the ass makes a lot more sense.

[ljm2002]

32. When I first saw "anyone think this is ok?"...

...I assumed you would be complaining about the leniency of the sentence. Which I am okay with, since the men pled guilty and will have to pay for the signs.

Now as to your remarks: are you seriously asking why it is punishable at all? I'd have to say you are a bit unclear on the concept of national parks, to say the least. Once an area has been so designated, there are many limits as to what people are permitted to do, for (I would have thought) obvious reasons. This particular park is famous for its rock formations -- specifically, the kind of formation that these two numbskulls destroyed by pushing over that rock.

If one of every 100 people who visited the park were to do what they did, then before long there would be no more of those famous formations.

Would that be okay with you?

I guess so, based on your comments.

Is 5 years a lot? Yes, it would have been too much for these first-time offenders IMO. But that is a maximum, which would only be used if they were repeat offenders or if their infraction had been worse (say, if they had done this to 30 formations instead of just 1). But to ask why it is punishable at all -- wow, the idiocy is just breathtaking.

[leftyohiolib]

35. i dont put rocks ahead of people. idiocy would be to send someone to prison over this act of

stupidity

If one of every 100 people who visited the park were to do what they did, then before long there would be no more of those famous formations. sorry but they are only rocks and the bigger they the heavier they are so people wont be to "destroy" all of them
im not saying that they should or shouldnt have done it. i think throwing someone into prison over this isnt worth making them lose their home and or their family is the idiocy

[ljm2002]

36. You said, and I quote:

"anyone think this is ok? he pushed a rock over in a park and could get 5 years in prison?

why is pushing a rock formation over punishable?- how is that criminal? what about picking wild flowers prison time for that?"

So you had an issue with a potential 5 year prison sentence, I get that -- I would not have responded if you had stopped there. 5 years would be too much for that particular crime IMO. But you went on to complain about it being punishable at all. Which is truly idiotic.

So you're complaining about a hypothetical 5 year prison sentence, which BTW is a MAXIMUM sentence, even though the outcome in real life was they pled out and got fined. You seem to think that because they are "just rocks" it's okay what these guys did. By that logic, they should be able to come to California and cut down a redwood tree in Muir Woods and, as long as no one got hurt, then what's the big deal?

IDIOTIC.

[Paladin]

43. Well said. (nt)

[Feral Child]

34. Too lenient.

How about dynamiting the Washington Memorial?

He destroyed public property. An ancient rock formation.


I'm terribly disappointed in this sentence. I wanted a minimum of 1 year actual jail-time + at least 600 hours public service, in the park they defaced + a hefty fine.

This is nothing but buying themselves out of trouble.

BTW, picking wildflowers in a federal park is a crime punished pretty harshly. Not 5 years, but 1 year I think + a $10,000 fine.

EDIT: Oops, forgot spellcheck.

[Katashi_itto]

39. I agree, they got off way to easy. Mandatory 5 years at least.

Last edited Thu Mar 20, 2014, 07:47 AM - Edit history (1)

When did other liberals become so short sighted?

[phleshdef]

40. Thats a punishment that does not fit the crime. When did other liberals become so prison happy?

[Katashi_itto]

41. When they destroy irreplaceable items that future generations have now been robbed of.

[Logical]

44. LOL, how GOP of you! nt

[Katashi_itto]

45. Wow..thats a leap, and very funny coming from you.

Differ in opinion and we are the enemy. How....GOP of you.

[bobduca]

72. not liberals, these are team players who left "Their Team" because nobody likes losing

they joined "our team", and those anti-liberals in our party welcomed them with open arms.

[Katashi_itto]

82. Agree, we have fanatics on DU that no one wishes to acknowledge exist

[Logical]

46. So you disagree with probation also? nt

[leftyohiolib]

48. fined ok -- probation and prison no

[Logical]

81. I agree with you 100%. n-t

[Orrex]

51. He's lucky that he's white

If he were black, he'd be branded a "thug" and jailed for 10 to 20.

[oldhippie]

57. Works for me. nt

[bobduca]

64. yahoo's knocking over hoodoos

the sentence seems about right.

[leftyohiolib]

66. then they should have been better protected if they were this important but they werent and someone

did something stupid but it isnt worth turning them into felons. and i cant help that you dont get the rock and flowers thing.

[bobduca]

67. sorry for the mid-edit

I was confusing native american rock art/ formations with the naturally occurring rock formations.

that being said, I do think vandalism like this needs a punishment.

[Jenoch]

74. You really sould have read the story about these teo hanyackers.

They did not get convicted of a felony. They are not doing any time in prison. I still cannot believe you are dedending their actions. Did you do something similar? That's the only reason I can think of for you to write the posts on this thread.

[leftyohiolib]

79. no i didnt or wouldnt do anything like that andi know they didnt get 5 yrs in prison but they could

have and my original question was is it appropriate. agreed these 2 hanyackers did something thought-less and stupid but turn them into felons, put them in prison for 5 years during which they could lose their homes, their jobs and their families, isnt ,to me, appropriate.

caitlyn hunt, a convicted sexual predator, hit the radar here and people poured in to say how she should be set free w/o any consequences to the law she broke but these two clowns push over a rock and people here want to turn them into felons.

[Chan790]

78. We think you don't get the wanton destruction of irreplaceable and unreparable public property.

I used to live in DC, I go back often. How about next time I set the display containing the Constitution and Declaration of Independence alight? I mean it's just paper, it could catch fire and burn down the building and kill someone.

I'd be doing a public service.

[leftyohiolib]

80. we have copies we dont need the original anymore

[tenderfoot]

71. I'm very fine with it. It taught those two clowns a good lesson.

I couldn't be happier.

[Chan790]

76. Yes.

Yes, I do. Knocking over and destroying a million year old rock formation intentionally. I'm irate they did not get jail time.

[tenderfoot]

88. That's a lot of feigned outrage - save it for Freedom Industries.

[leftyohiolib]

89. there's no outrage feigned or real- what's freedom industries arent they the guys who poisoned the

wv water?

[aikoaiko]

3. Pleading to misdemeanors with financial penalties is the right outcome.

[Jenoch]

23. If anyone is interested, here is a link to the video.

http://m.

I hope their fines were at least $10,000 each.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. It could be worse, for those knob-gobblin' goblin topplin hobgoblins.

They could have been sent to gobblers knob

[nomorenomore08]

47. I agree with no jail time, but they should've gotten community service and a heavy fine

on top of the probation. In this case - pointlessly fucking up a priceless monument - stupidity should hurt.

[catbyte]

52. I just love it when stupid people tape each other doing stupid stuff

then posting it on the Internet.

[sir pball]

83. Actually, taping it might well have kept them out of jail.

They have a record of them being slap-happy idiots - not premeditated vandals; IMO that does make a difference and while I can see arguments for a stricter punishment, in light of their "honest" stupidity, prison time is ruled out for me.

Stupid should be expensive and troublesome, but in this case ("Hold my beer and watch THIS" vs. "Let's deliberately destroy something beautiful and irreplaceable&quot , I really don't think locking them up is going to benefit anybody.

[bluedigger]

73. I find the punishment appropriate in this case.

While I find their act to have been moronic and unforgivable, it would serve little purpose to incarcerate them as punishment for their crime. The possible maximum term of five years exists both to discourage such acts, and serve as leverage in cases like these, to reach swift resolution in societies' best interest. The clean records and prior good standing in the community of the perps should also be recognized. They offered community service, which the State refused. I think their lives have been forever changed, as they have already received death threats, and deservedly widespread approbation. Their financial penalties are being directed to appropriate uses in public education. We can't undo what they did, ever, and should all try to move on, as best we may.