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Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:18 PM

 

In Support of a Great DUer

William Pitt and I don't always see eye to eye. And calling the President a "used care salesman" isn't my style.

But I will say:

1. Nobody on DU knows more about the Iraq War than Mr. Pitt. Nobody. When Mr. Pitt speaks, we should listen.

2. Mr. Pitt has done more than you or I to advance the Liberal cause. He's been in the trenches, fighting the good fight, since long before it was fashionable.

3. To call Mr. Pitt racist, or a right winger, is simply absurd and awful.

Look around: do you think things are getting better in America? Are the 99% better off than 30 years ago?

Many of us answer both of these questions with a thunderous NO!, and we want change, real change. No more one step forward and three back. We don't think that more hungry and homeless children, in exchange for the wealthiest still paying hyperlow taxes is shared sacrifice, or that ending Medicare is a serious proposal. We think these things are feeding a cancer.

We see deepening pain, and deepening desperation, on our streets and in our homes. We see a generation of children adrift, who've never known economic security. We see an America that's a sad shadow of the highly-imperfect but marvelous country we knew as children, an America that marched, day by day, towards a future of shared prosperity.

Sometimes we dreamers get emotional and say stupid things. Especially me. But to doubt the sincerity of our cause... particularly for a person who has done so much, so publicly, as Mr. Pitt... is a shame.

Please.

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Reply In Support of a Great DUer (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 OP
JustAnotherGen Mar 2014 #1
rumdude Mar 2014 #2
Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #3
MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #6
Progressive dog Mar 2014 #38
Enthusiast Mar 2014 #298
kelliekat44 Mar 2014 #357
JI7 Mar 2014 #14
CJCRANE Mar 2014 #52
DJ13 Mar 2014 #164
Scuba Mar 2014 #21
msanthrope Mar 2014 #72
Scuba Mar 2014 #90
msanthrope Mar 2014 #103
Vattel Mar 2014 #156
rhett o rick Mar 2014 #182
cascadiance Mar 2014 #338
Number23 Mar 2014 #221
Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #37
morningfog Mar 2014 #194
SidDithers Mar 2014 #224
sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #282
redqueen Mar 2014 #270
bluestate10 Mar 2014 #271
sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #288
freebrew Mar 2014 #331
sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #350
A Simple Game Mar 2014 #371
sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #383
freebrew Mar 2014 #389
sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #390
freebrew Apr 2014 #391
beerandjesus Mar 2014 #336
iamthebandfanman Mar 2014 #382
hrmjustin Mar 2014 #4
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #20
hrmjustin Mar 2014 #26
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #27
hrmjustin Mar 2014 #33
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #36
zappaman Mar 2014 #41
Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2014 #306
Raksha Mar 2014 #257
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #264
sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #284
tea and oranges Mar 2014 #341
Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #39
sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #283
VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #255
Bjorn Against Mar 2014 #22
hrmjustin Mar 2014 #24
Bjorn Against Mar 2014 #42
hrmjustin Mar 2014 #46
G_j Mar 2014 #29
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #34
CatWoman Mar 2014 #35
G_j Mar 2014 #102
1000words Mar 2014 #158
CatWoman Mar 2014 #346
JI7 Mar 2014 #44
G_j Mar 2014 #127
hrmjustin Mar 2014 #76
G_j Mar 2014 #117
hrmjustin Mar 2014 #126
smokey nj Mar 2014 #128
Divernan Mar 2014 #290
theboss Mar 2014 #356
Historic NY Mar 2014 #104
bvar22 Mar 2014 #193
hrmjustin Mar 2014 #195
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #243
GoneOffShore Mar 2014 #253
Doctor_J Mar 2014 #314
SidDithers Mar 2014 #226
JI7 Mar 2014 #247
nxylas Mar 2014 #316
sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #351
intheflow Mar 2014 #339
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joshcryer Mar 2014 #5
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quinnox Mar 2014 #17
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Liberal_in_LA Mar 2014 #8
Rex Mar 2014 #9
Scuba Mar 2014 #23
sheshe2 Mar 2014 #47
JustAnotherGen Mar 2014 #63
sheshe2 Mar 2014 #93
Progressive dog Mar 2014 #56
Rex Mar 2014 #213
Tx4obama Mar 2014 #227
DeSwiss Mar 2014 #286
Rex Mar 2014 #309
druidity33 Mar 2014 #368
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druidity33 Mar 2014 #384
JI7 Mar 2014 #10
Squinch Mar 2014 #28
FSogol Mar 2014 #31
msanthrope Mar 2014 #32
joshcryer Mar 2014 #48
zappaman Mar 2014 #74
Number23 Mar 2014 #225
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Bjorn Against Mar 2014 #11
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JI7 Mar 2014 #12
Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #57
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pnwmom Mar 2014 #171
Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #177
pnwmom Mar 2014 #181
Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #289
whopis01 Mar 2014 #209
BeyondGeography Mar 2014 #13
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Logical Mar 2014 #58
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Logical Mar 2014 #95
ProSense Mar 2014 #96
tkmorris Mar 2014 #125
ConservativeDemocrat Mar 2014 #249
840high Mar 2014 #172
lumpy Mar 2014 #183
truebrit71 Mar 2014 #79
ProSense Mar 2014 #92
truebrit71 Mar 2014 #120
Control-Z Mar 2014 #252
Bjorn Against Mar 2014 #133
ProSense Mar 2014 #142
truebrit71 Mar 2014 #165
lumpy Mar 2014 #189
U4ikLefty Mar 2014 #274
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lumpy Mar 2014 #180
steve2470 Mar 2014 #304
hughee99 Mar 2014 #337
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treestar Mar 2014 #16
Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #19
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treestar Mar 2014 #97
Puglover Mar 2014 #149
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WorseBeforeBetter Mar 2014 #132
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LittleBlue Mar 2014 #18
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LineLineReply !
MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #122
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one_voice Mar 2014 #141
marble falls Mar 2014 #155
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madfloridian Mar 2014 #160
zeemike Mar 2014 #162
pnwmom Mar 2014 #168
L0oniX Mar 2014 #206
stg81 Mar 2014 #216
Sheepshank Mar 2014 #263
MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #210
stg81 Mar 2014 #220
pnwmom Mar 2014 #230
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pnwmom Mar 2014 #265
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Puzzledtraveller Mar 2014 #312
jeff47 Mar 2014 #245
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Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2014 #170
swilton Mar 2014 #173
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mike_c Mar 2014 #179
TBF Mar 2014 #190
Lars39 Mar 2014 #219
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ProSense Mar 2014 #191
dawg Mar 2014 #192
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #207
awoke_in_2003 Mar 2014 #196
Whisp Mar 2014 #197
Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2014 #294
treestar Mar 2014 #387
bobduca Mar 2014 #198
L0oniX Mar 2014 #205
WheelWalker Mar 2014 #203
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stg81 Mar 2014 #214
Rex Mar 2014 #218
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rickyhall Mar 2014 #217
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frylock Mar 2014 #374
Orrex Mar 2014 #235
jeff47 Mar 2014 #237
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steve2470 Mar 2014 #313
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beerandjesus Mar 2014 #345
frylock Mar 2014 #375
MirrorAshes Mar 2014 #261
Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #269
Agnosticsherbet Mar 2014 #277
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ReRe Mar 2014 #281
DeSwiss Mar 2014 #285
quinnox Mar 2014 #287
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BelgianMadCow Mar 2014 #291
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frylock Mar 2014 #376
carla Mar 2014 #300
NCTraveler Mar 2014 #301
xchrom Mar 2014 #302
Nanjing to Seoul Mar 2014 #303
secondwind Mar 2014 #308
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randome Mar 2014 #311
TheSarcastinator Mar 2014 #320
randome Mar 2014 #321
Zorra Mar 2014 #328
randome Mar 2014 #330
Zorra Mar 2014 #332
beerandjesus Mar 2014 #348
Jakes Progress Mar 2014 #323
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closeupready Mar 2014 #326
840high Mar 2014 #333
shanti Mar 2014 #334
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Catherina Mar 2014 #349
Trajan Mar 2014 #358
Catherina Mar 2014 #359
StandingInLeftField Mar 2014 #352
Oilwellian Mar 2014 #353
WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #365
Oilwellian Mar 2014 #378
xiamiam Mar 2014 #354
Steve Martines Mar 2014 #360
Auggie Mar 2014 #361
JDPriestly Mar 2014 #367
AverageJoe90 Mar 2014 #372
glinda Mar 2014 #377
Tom Rinaldo Mar 2014 #386
raouldukelives Mar 2014 #388


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:19 PM

2. Well, anger is his gift n/t

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:21 PM

3. "And calling the President a "used care salesman" isn't my style"

 

No, your style is saying you'd rather overturn the election of Obama than the election of Reagan.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x761367

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:23 PM

6. Readers will need to judge my words for themselves, I suppose

 

I have changed my mind, however.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:37 PM

38. Of course you have and your more

recent comments about the President sure prove it--not. LOL

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:15 AM

298. Manny, I have judged your words to be of fine quality.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:15 PM

357. Actually, readers will need to judge all words written on DU for themselves..they usually do. nt

 

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:26 PM

14. he does say things were better 30 years ago when Reagan was Pres

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Response to JI7 (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:41 PM

52. The good old days of St Ronnie!

That's a strange timeline to reference.

Like the OP about the Russian annexation of the Crimea which compared that to American actions in the last 5 years (conveniently not including the Bush years).

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Response to JI7 (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:24 PM

164. Technically, the top of a cliff is always the high point

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:28 PM

21. You always bring up that same comment. Can you not forgive Manny a single transgression?

 

I believe his heart is in the right place.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #21)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:47 PM

72. Really??? Like when he blamed President Obama for a law passed 16 years ago?

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4550863

Or this....when he quoted Fox on Benghazi...

Yikes, I just saw the polling on this


70% of Americans think Benghazi! Is a big problem. Republicans seem to be good at ginning up fully-fake scandals, and Democrats suck at stopping them.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4339715


Or when he claimed his friend's health insurance went up 23 percent...but refused to provide proof....


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024479945


One transgression?

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #72)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:51 PM

90. That's your case? Really?

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #90)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:55 PM

103. Using a Fox News poll on Benghazi, claiming an ACA raise but refusing to provide proof, blaming the

 

for a law he didn't like....that passed 16 years ago???

Patterns.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #103)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:51 PM

182. This isnt jr high. nm

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #103)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:53 AM

338. The TPP is being pushed to be passed NOW and by Obama (NOT 16 years ago!)

 

The TPP is borrowing everything from what passed with NAFTA and is going further in a bad way, and they are trying again to sneak it through congress with "Fast Track Authority" to avoid public scrutiny for something that our founders should have been passed only as a TREATY that should have super majority support in congress, not a simple majority passing it without amendments or discussion, nor any kind of public review or review with congressional people that are allowed to talk about it once they know what is contained in it. Those that are putting it together or are corporate types that are having plenty of time to do so in secret.

NAFTA was bad enough when even it took away our sovereignty by taking down our ability to enforce dolphin safe tuna laws, when it gave an outside entity created by NAFTA (the WTO) the ability to override these laws when corporate entities didn't like them. And arguably it should have been used better to enforce better competition by telling us we need to get rid of our farm subsidies, which arguably did more to destroy the ability of South American country farmers to compete with underpriced farm exports to their countries, which put them out of business and had many of them become undocumented workers up here when they couldn't farm or work in their own countries when the jobs moved to a new cheaper labor place in Asia, etc. in the race to the bottom that NAFTA, and other "free trade" deals provided. Taking down farm subsidies as an anti-competitive law wasn't taken down by the corporate infested WTO, as they LIKED these laws that were in favor of big corporation that weren't interested in competition, but growing their own power and profits at others' expense. The TPP is going to make an entity such as the WTO that is an arm of power of the corporate sector a lot worse. Obama should know this, but instead he's aiding and enabling the TPP instead of fighting it as he should as a real Democrat should.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #90)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:03 PM

221. You said the OP's contention that he'd like to see the 2008 election overturned was

a "single" transgression. that's a mighty big fucking "transgression" but that's neither here nor there.

Msanthrope then provides evidence that there was nothing "single" about that person's "transgression." And she's right, they are part of a long and very blatant pattern from that person.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:16 PM

194. LOL! You must view that comment 10 times a day. Hilarious.

 

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:07 PM

224. Everything Manny writes should be viewed through the prism of that post...

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #224)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:38 AM

282. Thanks for your advice, I'm sure everyone will give it all the consideration it deserves.

Just did that, decided not to take it.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:56 PM

270. Jesus fucking Christ

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 12:13 AM

271. I wouldn't call any US President a used car saleman, even when I disagree

with the person. I am a moderate, I have always wondered about the mental balance of people that live at the political fringe, seems that anything can set off a conflagration from them, one that keeps burning regardless of definable reason. I don't worship those type of people, ever, not that I worship anyone.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #271)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:30 AM

288. Not my style either, probably people don't like my style because I prefer to focus on facts. And the

fact is President Obama defended, and wrongly stated the reason why he was defending, the Bush/Cheney war crime.

And people rightfully feel betrayed. That too is a fact, and all the attacks on people for expressing how they feel, isn't going to change a thing. If anything it will make people even more angry.

Will Pitt has expressed the general consensus among those who supported this president, one of the main reasons in 2008 was his own opposition to the war. Those who are focusing on his use of the term 'used car salesman' are exposing their priorities, nothing more. And it's astounding that one's political priorities are centered around trying to defend one American over the huge and serious issue of a war that killed, tortured and destroyed the lives of millions of human beings.

Leading many to wonder why it is important to them to defend one person over millions of lives. Something is wrong with that. I would not try to defend my own child if they made such an egregious error of judgement.

Sometimes it's better to just accept facts, even when they are very unpleasant, than to waste endless amounts of energy trying to defend the indefensible.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #288)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:33 AM

331. This post sums up a lot of feelings.

Many of us are feeling this same way.
"Professional Left" indeed.

I've been reading Will Pitt's work since the 2000 take-over.
I can't remember when I've disagreed with his conclusions.

The resulting furor over his choice of words struck me as extreme. I've never witnessed such bile from this group as was launched at Will's OP. Some threads look like I'm at the wrong website.

I've seen this nationalist thing creeping over here and it bothers me.

Recently any criticism of PBO is met with harassment from a handful of posters with way too much time on their hands.

When I want that kind of unreasonable reading, I usually visit the gun forum.

(I couldn't find a smiley for cynicism).

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Response to freebrew (Reply #331)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:51 AM

350. The 'reaction' is intended to distract from what is going on re Ukraine. Once again we are about to

Last edited Fri Mar 28, 2014, 05:16 PM - Edit history (1)

'invest' billions of dollars in a country on the pretext that we are 'helping to create a democracy'! Anyone who believes that must have fallen asleep back in the fifties, just woke up and thinks we are the good guys fighting Commies all over again.

The TRUTH is that our foreign policy is NEVER about altruism, or about our 'safety'. It is about MONEY

It is about 'investing' billions in countries that will return huge PROFITS to a select few, OBSCENE profits and the scam has been so lucrative, they just can't stop.

The 'recipe' is always the same. Demonize some 'leader', back 'protesters' with money and arms in order to destabilize any leader who isn't going to cooperate with our 'goals'.

Then use propaganda, the Corporate Media helps with that, to rile up the American people to SUPPORT the 'investors'.

When the mission is accomplished, untold numbers of human beings will be dead, tortured, maimed which means NOTHING to the 'investors'. Fodder, collateral damage, terrorists, they have a 'euphemism' for those dead children, grandparents, dogs cats or whatever other living thing is destroyed.

The scam is so obvious by now you would think it wouldn't work anymore. But they are very clever.

The Iraq 'investment' which did not benefit the American people in any way, even though it was THEIR money they 'invested', worked because they got at least HALF the country to support it. We the people spend YEARS fighting among each other, which kept us blind to what they are really up to.

They have successfully divided the country into 'teams'. Now it is the other team's turn to keep the money flowing. And while the Left is a bit more difficult to fool, they know they have enough support, solidified on the Right the minute you mention 'WAR' and now a segment on the Left.


What they fear most is that the people will stop fighting with each other long enough to see through the fog and JOIN FORCES finally to put a stop to it.

Which is why they HATE the Left who have seen through it for a long time.

Those are my observations from watching what has been going on over the past dozen years or so.

One thing we ALL know, NONE OF IT has benefited the American people. All of it has benefited the usual suspects, Cheney, Defense contractors et al. Not even making us 'safer'. Diane Feinstein claims we are 'less safe now than ever'. She THOUGHT she was justifying MORE of our money being invested. What she did was to confirm the Left's opinion that it was NEVER about our safety.

And yes, what is going on on DU has been pretty disturbing, but not new at all to anyone watching over the past number of years. They MUST protect their money flow no matter what.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #350)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 05:00 PM

371. Excellent analysis. Especially the last paragraph.

The difference when we went from version 2 to version 3 was and is still hard to believe. DU was mainly liberal in version 2 and is now in version 3 mostly conservative, at least the prolific posters are now mainly conservative.

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #371)

Sat Mar 29, 2014, 02:29 AM

383. Thank you. I see a lot of support here now for Republican policies.

It's not going to win anyone over and may even cost votes if it keeps up. Sometimes I wonder if that is the goal. Or is the goal to rid the party of Liberals who are always screaming about issues that affect the PEOPLE rather than Corporations so they can have TWO Parties working for them.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #350)

Mon Mar 31, 2014, 08:14 AM

389. Nothing surprises me anymore..

I saw the 'born-again' movement steal the minds of many potential lefties, turning them into morons.
The infighting between minorities(women, African-Americans, LGBT vs. the anti-war people) during the sixties, that took much energy from the movement. There were plenty of explanations for it all, but Cointelpro was the most likely.

There are still people that believe Vietnam was justified, those that believe Oswald was a lone gunman, that Abbie Hoffman died of a drug overdose. Because...

The M$M exists solely as a propaganda machine and pacifier for most of the populace. As you mentioned, most of those on the left fail to fall for it. But we are few and have no voice big enough to be heard.

I've been lurking here since 9-11, entered my first post in 2005. I don't post a lot.
When I see those that have been here a shorter time than me, that have 100,000s of posts, I wonder if there's an ulterior motive. Maybe they're stuck at home, whatever, but seems like you would have to 'live' here for that amount of diatribe.

Thanks for your energy and for letting some of us know we're not alone.

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Response to freebrew (Reply #389)

Mon Mar 31, 2014, 10:08 AM

390. Hi freebrew, I'm glad you decided to post. Most of us who went online during the early Bush era are

just ordinary people who sensed that something very wrong was going on in this country. I remember being thrilled to find out that I was not the only one when I stumbled on Left blogs, like this one eg. And hopeful that since there were so many others, we could actually do something about it.

But around 2004 I noticed an influx of people who came to these blogs armed with 'talking points', NOT against Right Wingers but against the Left. 'Purity trolls' 'politically naive' etc and found it puzzling at first.

It's been a long journey since then and we've learned a lot, we've learned about the corporate control of our government eg and the influence of the Third Way Corporatists over our Party. A lot that we were puzzled about before, has become clear now.

That is better imo, that in fact we were 'politically naive' and as such easily manipulated into being led, rather than leading, as citizens are supposed to do.

It became all about 'winning' with no explanation of what that means.

Now we know. Maybe now we can start over, better armed with all the knowledge we have now, to choose our own candidates, to donate only to those who are most likely to work for us.

But it will take a long time. And those who attacked the Left for being 'politically naive', which we were, we didn't know many of them were operatives eg pushing an agenda that was far from what the people actually wanted, will probably hate the Left, no longer conveniently politically naive, even more.

Thanks for your post

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #390)

Tue Apr 1, 2014, 08:53 AM

391. No thanks necessary...

it's always a pleasure to exchange with like-minded folk.

Good luck.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #271)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:51 AM

336. 10 points for using the word "conflagration"

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 07:08 PM

382. LOL

@ one of the responses to the linked post ...


"All you ever post is garbage. You belong at Free Republic and Fox news." directed towards manny :p

given this ops intended message.. lol

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:23 PM

4. Was he a war reporter? I don't know much about him.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:27 PM

20. He has been fighiting the good fight

 

since before DU became a site. He was one of the early critics of the Bush administration and started, with Ash, a little place called Truthout. He also researched all the lies the Bush administration pushed for war. He also did some significant research into Acorn.

I have significant differences with Mr. Pitt. But I will say this, he is a liberal, and walks the walk and talks the talk, unlike many here.

And I mean significant differences.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #26)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:32 PM

27. You welcome

 

I fear, and I mean it, the new DU has no place for people like Pitt or me.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #27)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:35 PM

33. You always will with me.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #33)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:36 PM

36. This place has become very strange

 

and that is the point I am making, almost a joke of itself and a twilight zone episode.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #36)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:37 PM

41. Or a "cesspool"

as you referred to it.
strange indeed.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #41)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 07:52 AM

306. Next thing you know, she'll be running around saying this place needs an enema.

Then you will need TWO fainting couches and a box of smelling salts.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #36)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:06 PM

257. Yes, it has become very strange.

While there has always been a contingent of right-wing trolls, they were usually easily recognizable. Likewise there has always been a contingent of Third Way/DLC trolls, who to my mind are far more pernicious and destructive, but they were always a small minority and again--easily recognizable.

I'm sure what has changed exactly, but it seems the second group has become both more organized and more aggressive in recent weeks. They tend to operate as "tag teams," and they use the kind of talking points and tactics I associate with right-wingers--the incessant and ridicule, along with the pearl-clutching and fake outrage.

It isn't any one thing specifically, but the cumulative effect feels like a shift in the balance of power, if you know what I mean. I don't like it.

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Response to Raksha (Reply #257)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:18 PM

264. Well, there *is* an election coming

 

so I guess this should not surprise us that much. But it still is strange.

And the faux outrage has led to many of us simply not really posting important stuff. You know they are on a rampage when they make fun of simple tweets (they have) emerging from the National Weather Service. And nothing more.

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Response to Raksha (Reply #257)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:12 AM

284. That roly poly laughing guy seems to be a favorite of theirs.

I think what you are seeing is more that many Liberals have left, leaving the board to the Third Way with many more probably feeling the same way. So it seems like there are more of them, when really it's more that Democrats have more to do than play childish games. Just my opinion, but I do miss a lot of good posters.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #36)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:04 AM

341. Microcosm

DU is playing out the fight that's going on at the national level between the Dems who serve corporations & the Dems who serve the people.

I don't expect we'll see an end to it soon.

And then there are those who take advantage of any disagreement to jeer, name-call, & thoroughly enjoy upsetting people.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #27)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:37 PM

39. Or me

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #27)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:41 AM

283. You're not the only thinking that way. Quite a few others are looking at this site and don't

recognize it anymore. Some have already moved on and if what we have witnessed today continues, many more will follow.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #20)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:05 PM

255. because he writes books?

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:28 PM

22. Will Pitt co-authored a book detailing the lies leading up to the Iraq War

Manny may well be right that Will Pitt knows more about the Iraq War than anyone else on this site.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022388813

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:31 PM

24. You mean the history of the war?

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #24)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:37 PM

42. The book was released shortly before the war started

The book was co-authored with former Chief UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter who had been monitoring Saddam Hussein's interest in WMDs for years so he knew that the Bush Administration was lying in their claims about WMDs. Will Pitt was the lead writer of the book and Scott Ritter provided him with lots of inside information.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:39 PM

46. Thank you. I did not know this.

 

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:33 PM

29. most of the people attacking him now, were not even members of DU back then

it appears they feel they own the place now.

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Response to G_j (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:35 PM

34. You noticed that too

 

this place has definitely driven out it's liberal heart and continues to. But, but, but... they will blame the liberals when 2014 comes along...

I was fearing 2016 for the conformity pressures... it is already here.

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Response to G_j (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:36 PM

35. While I'm not "attacking" him

I've been here from the early days.

As a matter of fact, I found DU via a Will Pitt Truthout story that was posted on The Smirking Chimp.

Having said that, I find his recent posts and name calling of the President highly distasteful.

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Response to CatWoman (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:55 PM

102. I agree that the first post was distasteful

it's not language I would have chosen. One thing is for sure, he has never lacked in passion, and
I've had disagreements with him myself, yet he is a soldier on our side.

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Response to 1000words (Reply #158)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:36 AM

346. actually

wondering where the fuck you came from and ignoring you is more like it.

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Response to G_j (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:38 PM

44. does this include the ones who own the site ?

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Response to JI7 (Reply #44)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:02 PM

127. they are not attacking him

Skinner posted a perfectly reasonable criticism.

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Response to G_j (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:47 PM

76. Just so you know I was just asking and not attacking.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #76)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:00 PM

117. I didn't think you were

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Response to G_j (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:03 PM

128. Don't you just love it when people who've been here a year or two call decade-long members trolls.

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Response to G_j (Reply #29)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:30 AM

290. Pitt was the most prestigious poster DU had & drew many to the site.

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Response to G_j (Reply #29)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:31 PM

356. I was!

 

So....pffffffftttttttttttt

What we are seeing now is the egotism and mania of the early Pitt meeting with (I think) the career disappointment of the latter Pitt. (And since this is a thread about a member here, I feel safe in openly talking about a member here.

This kind of stuff happened before "24 business hours." It really gained steam since. But it seems to work for some people.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:56 PM

104. Well then he knew the future Presidents position then....

wait he did enter the Senate until 2005.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:15 PM

193. If you are curious,

you can go to Amazon and buy this:



It is rated 41/2 stars by 65 customers.

http://www.amazon.com/War-Iraq-What-Team-Doesnt/dp/1893956385/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1395972375&sr=1-4&keywords=william+pitt


I have often disagreed with Will Pitt,
but when it comes to the Iraq War,
Will Pitt KNOWS what he is talking about.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #193)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:19 PM

195. I never knew any of this.

 

Sounds like he knows his stuff on the war.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #195)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:38 PM

243. Why him being disapointed with those statements made in Brusels is not shocking

 

or surprising.

He is far more of a liberal than the people flinging dung at him.

And trust me, not only have I crossed swords with Pitt. I have had him on ignore from time to time. He can be abrasive. But he is a liberal, far more liberal than many of his critics going on a faux outrage and asking for purity oaths.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #243)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:03 PM

253. One of the few times I actually agree with you.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #243)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 08:04 AM

314. Liberal and partisan

 

The fact is that most of us liberals are far more dedicated to the party and to the country and its people than the Fan Club, "centrists", and DINOs. This presidency has been a disaster for the party, and since our party is the only thing between us and Ted Cruz, that is very bad for all. We want to take the country back from conservatism. The Fan Club wants to make it more like Reagan's America.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #193)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:11 PM

226. Haven't heard much from Scott Ritter in a while...

what's he doing these days?

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #226)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:51 PM

247. isn't he in prison for trying to have sex with underage girls ?

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Response to JI7 (Reply #247)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 08:31 AM

316. Seems to be something of a pattern among prominent critics of the deep state

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #226)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 12:03 PM

351. Ritter was DEAD RIGHT about the War Criminals. Btw, what are THEY doing these days? We HAVE

seen them unfortunately, being asked for advice on Foreign Policy as recently as one week ago. Imagine that, in a so-called democracy which runs around the world touting their devotion to Human Rights, 'fighting' war criminals etc.

Literally millions of people around the globe would trade Ritter any day for that gang of murderers, torturers and thieves, not to mention the other crimes they are responsible for, rape, sodomy of detaineees, including CHILDREN.

They all should be in jail for LIFE, and that only because I oppose the DP even for scum like them, although Cheney does test my principles on that issue. Put it this way, if that ended up being his fate, I would view it as a way to save other lives.

Btw, where did you stand on the Bush/Cheney illegal, brutal invasion of Iraq. You appear to be attacking the messengers here while ignoring the massive crimes against millions of innocent people.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you or something because I have NEVER encountered any Dem who cared more about one man than about the millions of human beings whose lives were destroyed by the War Criminals HE exposed.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:04 AM

339. He has a wikipedia page.

It's short but it covers the high points of his career.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Rivers_Pitt

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Response to intheflow (Reply #339)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:05 AM

342. Thanks for the info.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:23 PM

5. Sincerity?

Says the guy who posts divisive alter ego threads? About the guy who never admits to being wrong?

You insult our intelligence.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:23 PM

7. "Mr. Pitt has done more than you or I to advance the Liberal cause"

Oh? How many Obama picture threads has he started?

Thought so.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:27 PM

17. lol. Yep, that's the yard stick many of the hard core fan club members would go by.

 

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:23 PM

234. He doesn't even have a Joe Biden avatar! I mean, what the FUCK?!

 

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:04 PM

254. HAHAHA you totally owe me a new keyboard.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:23 PM

8. I have Obama's back but I support Pitts right to speak against him

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:24 PM

9. Calling the POTUS a POS on a democratic website, will garner you all kinds

 

of expletives. Isn't that kinda common sense? Does that really need to be said?

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Response to Rex (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:29 PM

23. He's been chastised repeatedly. Isn't it time to move on?

 

Can you not forgive him this single transgression?

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Response to Scuba (Reply #23)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:39 PM

47. Well it doesn't look like Mr Pitt has moved on either.

This is the third double down post not the first.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #47)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:44 PM

63. Well in fairness

The op of this one came from someone in his clique. Unless there's another one - and I don't want to see it. You know what - I'm just going to stand back and let the 8th grade hair flipping commence. You with me?

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #63)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:51 PM

93. Yeah, I have had enough of this today~

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Response to Scuba (Reply #23)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:42 PM

56. You forgot the nasty post about

health insurance. That's two transgressions in just a few days.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #23)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:58 PM

213. Am I flogging him?

 

Haven't done anything of the sort. Common sense. Right?

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Response to Scuba (Reply #23)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:15 PM

227. Did he retract or apologize for the 'FU' and/or 'POS' OP?

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Response to Rex (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:20 AM

286. Truth hurts.

 

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #286)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 07:55 AM

309. It does. Facts are impartial to feelings.

 

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Response to Rex (Reply #309)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:50 PM

368. I'm sorry but this bothers me...

the purpose of nt. is to denote "no text" in the body of the message. For folks who've got dialup or only skim the titles, nt in the header tells us not to bother loading the message. Otherwise it's redundant... i can see there's no text now, i just loaded it to check. Now if you were to post pictures or graphics in the body, i guess technically that's nt. but that also fucks with dialup folk. A thread can take forever to load with a big fat picture in it.

just sayin...



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Response to druidity33 (Reply #368)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:52 PM

370. Tell ya what, I will put 'nt' in the title from now on when that is all it is.

 

I've been there...stuck on dial up so you have my sympathies.

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Response to Rex (Reply #370)

Sat Mar 29, 2014, 06:28 AM

384. Thank You... all us Satellite and dialup folk appreciate it. nt.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:24 PM

10. don't forget about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE in all this

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Response to JI7 (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:34 PM

31. LOL. Someone give the baby a bottle.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:34 PM

32. It's like when James Blond in the Ecuadorian Embassy releases a press statement after a Snowden

 

video appearance......"Don't forget about Meeeeeeeee!!!!"

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Response to JI7 (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:10 PM

225. Nailed this entire OP in less than 10 words.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:04 AM

340. hee heee!

Accurate.



I'm hating the atmosphere that's developed here....if you DON'T "critique" this president in really hostile, volatile ways, you're subjected to hostile, volatile insults here.

It makes it HARDER to look with a reasonable critical eye at the whole picture, positive and negative.

I want to read useful information, learn when I'm missing something. There's too much complexity for one person to understand everything going on. But i don't want to be attacked because I haven't expressed enough hatred.....yet that's what seems to be the dividing line here now.

Also, the interpretation that PBO supports something because he doesn't use the snarky and/or incendiary language we use here is ridiculous. Asinine. Ignorant. Childish.

Also also, thinking that cowboy tactics are what we need to right the sick system that's developed over 30 and more years is about instant gratification.

/end rant.

PS on edit... The extreme PBO bashing doesnt help get more dems elected. Which is critical, because the pukes are dangerous. As in, malignantly, climactically, urgently dangerous.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:25 PM

11. Agreed, I don't always agree with Will Pitt but he has done some great things

The thread calling him a racist is truly reprehensible and it should have been hidden.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:18 PM

229. Why? It did NOT call 'him' a racist. And btw his 'FU' and 'POS' thread wasn't hiden

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #229)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:23 PM

233. She called him a rw racist multiple times

Sorry, but saying the words "expected of" over and over again did not make what she was doing any better. That thread was truly reprehensible.

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #229)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:31 PM

238. Why was the word racist there then?

It had no business being there.

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #229)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:19 PM

362. people here are smart enough to see through that passive-aggressive bullshit..

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:25 PM

12. yeah, things were much better when Reagan was Pres and re-elected 30 years ago

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Response to JI7 (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:43 PM

57. things were much better then - a lot better then - in terms of economic stress on ordinary working

people and 30+ years of ever increasing inequality - Not because Reagan was better than Obama - of course not. But three decades of negative wealth redistribution along with Clinton remaking the Democratic Party into a distinctly right-wing (but less extreme than the Republicans) Party which effectively brought an end to the New Deal and Great Society as a political force and a progressive alternative to right-wing economic policy.

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #57)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:23 PM

163. Exactly! When so many things steadily decline for 30 years, then by definition...

 

things were better 30 years ago.

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #57)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:30 PM

171. Were things a lot worse when President Bush left office? That's the only measure that counts.

No reasonable person would hold Obama responsible for actions Presidents and Congresses were taking over the last 30 years.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #171)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:40 PM

177. no, I don't hold Obama responsible for that. I do hold Clinton responsible though. And so far with

measures like TPP - we have not seen a reversal of the Reagan/Clinton right-wing economic legacy. Frankly, I personally did not expect it under Obama. But clearly many people did think they were voting for a new New Deal. Perhaps, they were just being naive.

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #177)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:49 PM

181. Manny asked the question about 30 years ago and it made no sense to me. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #171)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:51 AM

289. America was certainly in a much better state a year or two before Bush left office than it is now.

It was worse off the day before he left office than it is now, however.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:40 PM

209. Actually a lot of things were much better then

Getting our guy elected over their guy is not a real measure of success.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:26 PM

13. I'll say this about you, Manny

Teabagger sites will never find any use with your threads.

Will Pitt has been their hero lately.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:47 PM

70. These sites are loving Pitt's comments

It is really sad to see the posters on other board take joy at conflict on this board.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #121)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:57 PM

250. OH SHIT....

 

I would repost some of what the Freepers say about him.....wow...just wow...Oh how they love him....

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #121)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:25 PM

364. now go out and ask ten people if they heard what Will Pitt said about Obama..

prepare yourself for the blank stares you're going to receive.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #70)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 08:51 AM

322. It is really sad to see the posters on THIS board take joy at conflict on this board, too! nt

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #70)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:26 AM

329. Why should anyone here care what "other boards" think about about this site or

what the people who participate here say or do?

I've never understood why some DU'ers go to RW places and somehow think that whatever they are doing or saying is something of concern or threatening in someway to Democratic Underground.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:22 PM

363. yes, we must always temper what we say lest the right posts it on their shit blogs..

it's been asked already, but who gives two fucking shits what they say or think? why does that cause you such distress?

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Response to frylock (Reply #363)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:34 PM

366. Because the offending post was not only offensive, it was factually wrong

The "unsolvable" problem "caused" by the piece of shit used car salesman was solved, with the help of some much better informed posters.

Meantime, he got more run with his bullshit in freeper world than he did here. Distress? You misread me. Manny calls this guy a great DU'er; that's what I was responding to. Maybe years ago, but that ship has sailed.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #366)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 05:12 PM

373. again, nobody gives a fuck what freepers think except for freepers..

the clutching of pearls in unnecessary.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:26 PM

15. No one

" To call Mr. Pitt racist, or a right winger, is simply absurd and awful. "

...called anyone a "racist."

As I said to him in that thread, my point ia that is a RW-style attack to pick a derogatory label and constantly repeat it. Why does anyone think that it should be acceptable? Why shouldn't it be denounced?

It's nothing more than despicable name calling. It is a tactic that cannot be justified.

The first time, the excuse was "lashing out" in the "heat of the moment."

Though, those attempts to justify the name calling were also ignored, and it continues.

Such despicable and gratuitous name calling should not be acceptable on DU.

I mean, all of a sudden some people are outraged that name calling that a lot of DUers find offensive is being labeled offensive.

As for this:

1. Nobody on DU knows more about the Iraq War than Mr. Pitt. Nobody. When Mr. Pitt speaks, we should listen.

He definitely has a selective memory.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024613725#post14

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Response to ProSense (Reply #15)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:37 PM

40. Good throwback Thursday post Prosense

Throwback Thursday at DU is very illuminating.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #15)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:44 PM

58. You called a DUer a racist. Pure and simple. You love the attention. Pitiful. n-t

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #58)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:44 PM

62. BS, and don't make me laugh.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #62)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:48 PM

78. Disgusting post by you. Using the racist card because your feelings are hurt. nt

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #78)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:50 PM

85. Say anything nonsensical by you.

I made my point, which is why those who would defend such despicable name calling are outraged.



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Response to ProSense (Reply #85)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:52 PM

95. Your point was to get attention. As usual. You made no point. Just called a DUer a racist. n-t

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #95)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:53 PM

96. You're apparently projecting, and failing at comprehension. n/t

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Response to ProSense (Reply #96)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:02 PM

125. No, he's correct

You DID call him a racist, you DO love the attention, and it IS reprehensible. I am sick to death of this internecine crap at DU.

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Response to tkmorris (Reply #125)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:52 PM

249. If you're really "sick to death of this internecine crap", don't contribute to it

By making up an accusation unsupported by the facts.

It is more accurate to say that William Pitt is a hater. Racists are different kinds of haters than he is. Pointing out his behavior is, in many ways, similar to the more common type of anti-Obama hater, is not the equivalent of calling him racist.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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Response to ProSense (Reply #96)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:31 PM

172. You don't like people disagreeing

 

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Response to ProSense (Reply #96)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:53 PM

183. Verily. How anyone got the impression you called anyone a racist is pure unadultrated BS.

Only in a sloooooow mind would anyone come to that idiotic conclusion.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #62)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:48 PM

79. Yes. You did. The least you could do is own it.

 

Instead of your usual spinning bullshit..

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #79)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:51 PM

92. No, I didn't, and

". Yes. You did. The least you could do is own it."

...I'm not going to concede a point I didn't make. I stated that the tactic of repeating a despicable label in a gratuitous way is expected of a RW racist.

No amount of conflating my point with a distortion of it changes the nature of the name calling or the fact such tactics don't belong on DU.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #92)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:01 PM

120. Keep spinning..

 

...not sure at this point if it's sad, pathetic, or both....

And you STILL haven't shown which part of the phrase "used car salesman" is a RW racist statement...

I know you are used to getting away with this usual type of bullshit, but i'm not letting you off the hook. You accused someone of being a RW racist and now you're trying to run away from it.

Not. Gonna. Happen.

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #120)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:00 PM

252. That's not how I understood it.

I thought it was that we, as democrats, should avoid saying the kind of things that a RW racist would say. Or really, anything a RWer would say, racist or not. Though, it is hard to tell which right wingers aren't racist, I'm sure there are some.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #92)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:06 PM

133. You did call him a racist repeatedly, and you are being extremely dishonest about it.

If you think putting the word "expected" in front of it every time excuses you from name calling you are wrong, we are not stupid and we can see the disgusting shit you are pulling. You keep using the word "expected" only so you can act dumb and pretend you are not making malicious accusations against him when in fact you are doing exactly that.

I wish Will Pitt had not used the label he did, but what you are doing is far worse than what Will Pitt did, far worse. At least Will Pitt is honest about what he feels, he doesn't try to pretend he never said what he did if he puts the word "expected" in front of it.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #142)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:25 PM

165. Which part of "used car salesman" is racist?

 

You made the accusation. You back it up.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #92)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:02 PM

189. Those with little than integrity will use any lying tactic to attack anyone who stands in their way

of making a blowsy defense. Shouldn't use certain words because some people will land on it like a fly on flypaper, I guess.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #92)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 08:06 AM

315. I imagine you're typing your response on a keyboard...

 

I imagine you're typing your response on a keyboard... just like many RWers and racists do.


Does both the irrelevance and the implication of your original statement contrasted to this one become a wee bit more clear to you now?

No amount of hiding behind rhetoric changes the nature of name calling or the fact that such tactics don't belong on DU.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

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Response to ProSense (Reply #62)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:49 PM

180. I don't see that you called anyone a racist. Guess you shouldn't have used the word racist cause

some will gobble that up and spit it out at the same time.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:52 AM

337. I agree. Name calling like that probably shouldn't be acceptable here...

Sure, your posts seem to be the style of a paid consultant whose job is to defend the administration in online message board discussions, using fact when they are on your side, and using intimidation, attacking the messenger, or just derailing the conversation when they're not, but repeated name calling of elected Democrats or Democratic candidates probably shouldn't be acceptable here.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:12 AM

343. You didn't denounce a RW-style attack so much as engage in it yourself.

You hate Pitt's behavior so you emulated it. It doesn't matter that you think you were trying to make some grand point. Perhaps that was your explicit reasoning. But the implicit message you sent was you were just as happy to engage in the RW attack tactics you say you despise.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:26 PM

16. Not a surprise that you are supportive of any

blaming of bashing of Obama for anything, including medical formularies. Whatever it takes.

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Response to treestar (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:27 PM

19. Not a surprise you showed up

Not taking it personal are you?

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:37 PM

43. what the heck are you talking about?

what does it have to do with me? Nothing. You are trying to create a meme of some kind. I'm not the one who put personal medical information on the internets.

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Response to treestar (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:40 PM

51. Wow, you are something else

For someone who likes to accuse others of taking it personal, you certainly take things personal.

Nice dig on Will there. I'm surprised you don't get more +1's for these posts. You're usually a bit more passive aggressive about it though.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #51)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:44 PM

59. You are trying to create some personal argument with me here

Not biting. If you think it's a dig, then well, yeah, take the consequences of your posting. I'm not taking it personally, just telling you - oh never mind, you are not worth it.

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Response to treestar (Reply #59)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:45 PM

64. Don't bite. Don't care.

As I said to you originally, some personal self reflection is order.

And yes you are taking it personal. Just like every single thread you jump into like this.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #64)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:47 PM

69. And you are not jumping in?

Who are you to say what threads anyone can post in? Too bad.

I don't think you know what taking it personally means.

OP loves to find anyone bashing Obama. I don't think he does it because of me. That would be taking it personally, get it?

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Response to treestar (Reply #69)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:50 PM

84. I don't think you understand the term you love to throw around

Here you are yet again getting all worked up.

When certain people get worked up about something that you hold dear, you accuse them of making things too personal.

My favorite instance of you doing that though has to be the one people have been linking to lately. Something about people having enough rights or something.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #84)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:51 PM

94. Wow personal vendettas

talking about posts that are ancient.

I don't have time to go through all your posts and find one to harp on forever.

What is your problem?

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Response to treestar (Reply #94)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:53 PM

98. Again, you have 3 fingers pointing back at you

self reflection is not a weakness you know.

And you have well more than one post throwing out the "personal" attack/defense - that one was just my favorite.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #98)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:56 PM

107. Has this got anything to do with the OP?

How old are you? Get back to the issues.

And yes, don't take disagreement personally. How will you survive the right wingers? How could you even debate them?

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Response to treestar (Reply #107)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:58 PM

112. Get back to the issues

Laughable coming from you.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #51)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:14 PM

144. This vicious post survived a jury

On Thu Mar 27, 2014, 02:48 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Wow, you are something else
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4738992

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"Wow, you are something else

For someone who likes to accuse others of taking it personal, you certainly take things personal.

Nice dig on Will there. I'm surprised you don't get more +1's for these posts. You're usually a bit more passive aggressive about it though."

This poster looks to be stalking the other poster and making personal digs at him.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 27, 2014, 03:06 PM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't think it rises to a hide. I'm personally sick of these knock off threads. I wish it could be hidden.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Casual observation is ok. Learning from others is right thinking.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:38 PM

45. Not that I have a dog in this fight, but it looks like you showed up first

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Response to Blaukraut (Reply #45)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:42 PM

54. True

but as I pointed out to her in another thread - she can be counted on to home in certain threads... and usually accuse people of taking things too personally.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #54)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:44 PM

60. There are a number of posters from both sides who are always at each others' throats

Having followed the ongoing argument for a long time now, I'm getting sick of it. DU needs to get it together again and remember that we're all on the same side in the end.

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #54)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:48 PM

77. When she smugly told the LGTB

community on this board "You have enough rights" I must admit, I took it personally.

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Response to Puglover (Reply #77)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:53 PM

97. I think you are misinterpreting that

but why are you still talking about it many months later? That's creepy. I was responding to the poster who thinks of nothing else and that nothing else matter. Also think you are misquoting me there.

I don't have time to go through your posts to find anything weak you might have said to harp on forever.


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Response to treestar (Reply #97)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:18 PM

149. Why?

Because it was a disgusting comment that I have never heard out of anyone's mouth that claims to be a Democrat.

And tough shit if you find it creepy. Until you apologize for that unbelievably callous comment I and quite a few others will not let it go.

Oh and if you would like a screen print I am happy to supply it for you. It's out there.

And I know that you must be terribly busy with all of your posting and busy busy life. But if you have a spare second feel free to search for something that I have said that matches the disgusting nature of your words.

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Response to WorseBeforeBetter (Reply #132)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:20 PM

154. Thanks.

But we must have misinterpreted that.

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Response to Puglover (Reply #154)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:33 PM

174. You're welcome.

That is some serious toxicity, just like the OP insinuating that liberal critics of Obama are racist.

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Response to Puglover (Reply #77)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:44 PM

178. "You have enough rights" ???????

No fucking way she said that That is disgusting.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #178)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:54 PM

185. Yep oh and BTW

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:46 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

I would think the new owner of DU would at least purchase a star
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4739296

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Singling out some DUers for not buying stars has long been against community standards. It's a classist elitism and attempt to engage in personal attacks rather than stick to the topic at hand.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:52 AM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not to stir the pot, but this would be better as a reply, not an alert.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: we are all stars, grow some back bone and deal with it
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There is NOTHING wrong with this post.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to Puglover (Reply #185)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:26 PM

199. I looked for that and found the post. I am so

sorry that something like that was said. That anyone can say that is just beyond appalling. I'm sorry, not one person should ever be subjected to that hate

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Response to Autumn (Reply #199)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:28 PM

200. Thank you Autumn.

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Response to treestar (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:44 PM

61. Any whining coming from you is funny! n-t

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #61)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:45 PM

65. Nasty post

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Response to treestar (Reply #65)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:47 PM

73. You're taking it too personal

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #73)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:50 PM

86. would you like me to direct to you what I really think of you?

and you wouldn't take it so personally as to alert on it?

What the hell is your problem? Do you have nothing better to do?

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Response to treestar (Reply #86)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:51 PM

91. You obviously have nothing better to do

So let's spend the night doing this.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:27 PM

18. Same here

 

I've disagreed with him often enough, but on the issue of Iraq he's spot on. Few could be argued to be more knowledgeable or passionate about that conflict than him.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:31 PM

25. We've all said things, or clicked send, then regretted it. Mr. Pitt's achievements far outweigh ...

 

... this transgression. I feel sorry for those who cannot find it in their hearts to forgive him.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:51 PM

88. Will posted two or three OPs where he stood by his original comments.

I feel sorry for the guy but it's not a case of a single "transgression".

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:34 PM

30. I will say this, and I am sorry you misssed it

 

but this is not the DU 1 of 2002 that I joined and was even glad to contribute.

And I am not sure that this place wants true liberals anymore.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #30)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:15 PM

145. You still contribute a lot!

DU is the same as it ever was.

Some profane rants, some low brow stuff, some middle brow, some high brow stuff.

We get it all here.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #30)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:15 PM

146. it seems to be a lot of one upmanship around here lately

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Response to pbmus (Reply #146)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:53 PM

184. It is not upmanship

 

the new DU really does not want those of us who have been in the front lines fighting the good fight.

I recently asked a person where was he\she was during Occupy, other priorities, and while there is that problem that life does take their twists and turns, I have been relentlessly attacked by conservadems here to the point that I do not feel welcomed. In fact, some of them make me make all kinds of unsafe, and I mean that.

Pitt actually wrote a few essays using language in common usage among both users of this site ten years ago (the president was Bush) and editorial writers going back a looooonnnnggg time and people get insulted.

We have another poster asking for a purge. Yup a purge, that is not the DU I signed to 12 years ago. It is getting increasingly out of control.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #184)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:58 PM

251. I have just started to use the ignore button

and find it useful in eliminating the goofs.

With your DU history it must be hard seeing the potential destruction of a liberal site.

Do you have another site that you like other than du?

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Response to pbmus (Reply #251)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:05 PM

256. I have my own blog

 

and I am a working reporter in my local area, for which I have been attacked too, so I no longer post any meat here, or anything I happen to get published either. I just got an assignment on water desalination plans. So time to reach for contacts. Time to go ask a professor about hydrology in the back country. I know, fun stuff.

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Response to pbmus (Reply #251)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:07 PM

258. "Potential destruction of a liberal site"

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Response to zappaman (Reply #258)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:10 PM

260. another jerk --- bye

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Response to pbmus (Reply #260)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:11 PM

262. Bye

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:40 PM

49. Name calling, no matter which side engages in it, greatly diminishes credibility

So Will Pitt will have to suffer a bit of a backlash here. And in no way will I forget what he has done for the cause. I remember his fight well.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:40 PM

50. You have the best OPs, Manny.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:41 PM

53. No, thank you.

I'm sorry, but I have better things to do than reward attention seeking behavior. If his recent posts are the kind you think are appropriate and worthy of respect and applause, it might be time for me to re-examine why I joined DU.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:42 PM

55. WilliamPitt is no more 'great' than anyone else on DU.

 

This is an anonymous message board and your hero worship is embarrassing.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #55)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:46 PM

67. Yes, he is better than most. If you think this place is so generic why the hell are you here? nt

 

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Response to randome (Reply #55)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:47 PM

75. What have YOU done to advance liberalism?

 

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Response to Vashta Nerada (Reply #75)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:57 PM

111. How is liberalism advanced by misinterpreting what Democrats say

Saying Obama defended the Iraq war was just wrong. Maybe he didn't express it well, but he didn't defend the war, and several OPs have claimed that.

Some of these people are going off the rails.

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Response to treestar (Reply #111)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:00 PM

187. So you're only familiar with the work of Will Pitt from the last week?

 

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Response to Vashta Nerada (Reply #187)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:30 PM

201. Apparently Treestar is familiar with todays work claiming an Obama defense of Iraq War

as well as Pitts post that offended many DUers. Treestar's post you refer to was in reference to Obama Iraq war statements. Got it?

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Response to Vashta Nerada (Reply #75)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:22 PM

159. Hmm. Let's compare. Shall we?

Obama:

o 4.2 million jobs saved
o cut taxes for 160 million Americans
o Wall Street reform passed
o 18 tax cuts for small businesses
o Unfair credit card fees eliminated
o 466,000 new manufacturing jobs
o $1 Trillion in spending cuts
o Protected reproductive rights
o Stem cell research funded
o Fuel efficiency standards doubling
o U.S. oil production at 8-year high
o Natural gas production at all-time high
o Renewable energy production at 27%
o First Latina Supreme Court Justice appointed
o $100 billion invested in science and research
o Iraq War ended
o Libya liberated
o Osama bin Laden dead
o Incentives to hire unemployed Veterans
o "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" ended
o Unemployment benefits extended
o Equal Pay for women protected
o Health care reform passed
o Seniors' drug costs lowered
o College Pell Grants doubled
o Guaranteed coverage for contraception
o Medicare and Social Security protected
o Auto industry saved

Will Pitt:

Wrote a book.



Remind me again who I should be supporting?

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Response to Liberal Veteran (Reply #159)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:34 PM

239. Isn't that kind unfair? Of course a sitting Democratic president is in a position to accomplish

much more than any one liberal activist. And William Pitt has done a lot more than write a book. He has been in the trenches fighting the good fight for a long time and everybody knows that.

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Response to randome (Reply #55)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:49 PM

82. I'm sensing a wee bit of jealousy here

 

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Response to randome (Reply #55)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:51 PM

89. Will Pitt is not anonymous and no one is hero worshipping

But when we are talking about someone who has actually done real work to fight for progressive causes I don't think anyone could deny that Will Pitt has done more than most people to make change. Will Pitt is not an anonymous poster, he is a nationally recognized writer who co-authored a book with the former Chief UN Weapons Inspector exposing the Bush Administrations lies in the lead up to war.

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Response to randome (Reply #55)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:54 PM

99. Hero worship is a really bad thing

We've been told that often enough!

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Response to randome (Reply #55)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:11 PM

140. "Hero worship is embarrassing."

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #140)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:33 PM

204. Is it wrong to be called Pittbots now?

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Response to lumpy (Reply #204)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:21 PM

231. I have never called anyone an Obamabot.

I don't agree with Pitt on everything, am well aware of his shortcomings, and don't think he is above criticism.

Same as the President of the United States.

Anything else?

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Response to randome (Reply #55)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:19 PM

150. Actually he is...

He is demonstrably a much greater wordsmith than I am, he wrote a book exposing the Bush lies before the start of the war spending his own money, and I didn't. These things are "greater."

Nice naive equivalency.

Also, he's not anonymous.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #150)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:51 PM

212. I really don't know if Pitt is a better writer than you or anyone else is, but if you say so.

Of course no one else on the face of the earth wrote about or even realized Bush's administration was selling a pack of lies. So Pitt has to be an American hero along with people who were active participants in uniform during the Iraq War who also wrote about the lies put forth by Bush and buddies. He is a celebrity with a worshipful following on DU I guess.

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Response to lumpy (Reply #212)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:16 PM

228. Actually what he did WAS different than what other people did.

He's an excellent writer. And I'm not worshipping.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:46 PM

68. Completely agree Manny

 

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #68)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:52 PM

369. Has my complete agreement as well

 

Will Pitt said things that hurt the feelings of those from the BOG. It doesn't mean he was wrong for saying them.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:48 PM

80. Umm, speak for yourself...

1. Nobody on DU knows more about the Iraq War than Mr. Pitt. Nobody. When Mr. Pitt speaks, we should listen.

2. Mr. Pitt has done more than you or I to advance the Liberal cause. He's been in the trenches, fighting the good fight, since long before it was fashionable.

Honestly, I don't know much about Mr Pitt, but I do sense that he has some kind of hero-worship cult around him. To me he's just another DUer who takes adolescent jabs at the president, and yet another person who decided to curse at president Obama before spending 20 minutes to figure out how ACA works. That doesn't strike me as a paragon of well-informed progressive activism, so please leave me out of whatever group of people you have in mind that know less or have done less than him.

If you are truly interested in supporting people who are well informed and have done a lot to forward progressive causes, maybe you can ease off on your own adolescent jabs at the president. After all, whatever Will Pitt knows, Obama actually ended the war in Iraq.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #80)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:59 PM

114. Not to mention the logic fail in the idea that he knows all about Iraq

so when he says something about the ACA, he has to be right about that.

I think OP just loves the idea that someone has gone ODS.

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Response to treestar (Reply #114)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:25 PM

166. "Not to mention the logic fail in the idea that he knows all about Iraq so when he says.."

"something about the ACA, he has to be right about that."

Where did someone make that argument?

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Response to DanTex (Reply #80)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:17 PM

148. You could always go read Pitt's Wikipedia page to freshen up

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #148)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:31 PM

202. Wow, 42 years old, still craving attention, still posting with all the eloquence of a "yo mama" joke

But I see your point -- anyone with a wikipedia page surely deserves a pack of lemmings.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #80)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:23 PM

161. "I don't know much about Mr. Pitt..."

You probably lost your argument right there.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #161)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:25 PM

167. He's probably busy reading the Wiki link I gave him

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:48 PM

81. You're not doing him any favors.

He should not be doing political writing at all. That ship sailed years ago.

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #310)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:50 PM

380. Google is your friend. nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:50 PM

83. I am in complete agreement with you, Mr. Goldstein. I said the same thing several hours ago...

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #83)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:39 PM

208. Wow, someone wrote a book and is now an expert on everything. I adore him. Really.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:54 PM

101. When Mr. Pitt speaks, we should listen.

 

LOL. I don't even give obama that kind of deference and he is my president. One i voted for twice.

So i really don't think I need to feel this way about a random du'er

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Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #101)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:59 PM

215. He has a following on DU, a celebrity you know. He can do no wrong, he is adored, worshipped.

Kinda like those Obamabots we've heard so much about.

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Response to lumpy (Reply #215)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:21 PM

232. except i remember distinctly voting for obama, not pitt

 

therefore would make much prefer to be a obamabot than a pittbot.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:56 PM

105. Excellent Op and sadly needed, it honestly seems a concentrated effort is underway, I believe

Wills past speaks for itself, people that can change opinions only prove they know how to listen which is an admiral trait when needing people to listen to yourself and seeing that some are using that line of reasoning to attack, yes attack Will, not only his character but credentials as well speaks of desperation on anyone using such...

There is not one person on this site, not one that can claim perfection and or full knowledge of any subject involving any and all Politicians motives and or truthfulness when dealing with US the American public, to claim such is pretty laughable considering......

And I honestly do not understand the angst over the use of labeling a Politician a "used car salesman", it would be harder in my opinion to prove any of them unworthy of such a label...

JMHO

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:56 PM

106. we each have our own opinion but I do not blindly support everything anyone does.

Not Obama, not WillPitt, not you, not Skinner, not anyone.

How can you, why would you, know or compare what WPhas fone compard to ALL of Du like you have done? I really do not get it. Yes, Will has done a lot, but so have others and no matter who, saying we should believe, trust him in EVERYTHING he write is as absurd as saying we should do the same for Obama because of the good things he has done.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:56 PM

108. hoping Will and his lovely wife, daughter and mum are doing well

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:57 PM

109. I have no doubt that you appreciate his work.

I've seen your handiwork too.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:57 PM

110. I believe I have said this before MannyGoldstein.

But you sure have a way of bringing out the neo in the liberals here.


Keep it up.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 07:59 PM

113. I don't think he's a "great DUer."

He's rude, disruptive, hurtful and WRONG. He's attracted the attention of the right wingnut fringe as their newest poster boy for the "failure" of the ACA.

Heckuvajob, Pittie! You don't speak for me.

If the rumors are true that his dramatics on this website are an "audition" for a gig at the joint where Greenwald was recently hired, I hope he doesn't get the job.

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Response to MADem (Reply #113)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:04 PM

130. On the contrary.....

If the rumors are true that his dramatics on this website are an "audition" for a gig at the joint where Greenwald was recently hired, I hope he doesn't get the job.


I hope he does, they deserve each other.

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #130)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:19 PM

151. Fair point!

Maybe he'll get some of that "employer subsidized" healthcare, and he won't have any ACA woes in future.

I sum his histrionics up in one word:

Enough.

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Response to MADem (Reply #113)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 12:23 AM

272. MADem, please remember that Pitt isn't the only one that the right wing adores 'round here

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Response to Number23 (Reply #272)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 12:29 AM

273. Preach! Like BOOKENDS! nt

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Response to Number23 (Reply #272)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 08:38 AM

318. Wow! I did not know about that.

 

It explains so much, doesn't it? It's like a damsels-in-distress tag team around here.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to MADem (Reply #113)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 05:56 AM

293. I am SO glad you said what you said.

For me, I can't get by your first sentence because I was the subject of his
hateful treatment one time.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #293)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 08:44 AM

319. Well, you know me--I'm all for vibrant and intelligent discussion...

but shit-flinging and "drama" as a substitute for it?

Not so much!

I said this in another thread, quoting the DU ToS--I think it works here, too:

See, a lot of people think that calling POTUS a "piece of shit used car salesman"

--Does NOT promote a positive atmosphere.

--Does NOT promote 'good discussions.'

--Demonstrates a "pattern of disruptive behavior"--particularly when it's done more than once, "con brio."

--Ruins the website for a large number of visitors (judging by the pushback from competing threads on the subject).

--Seems to OPPOSE the mission of DU.


And last, but most certainly not least;

--Makes DU suck. Once makes it suck a bit. Twice makes it suck to Walt Starr proportions. Rallying minions to cheerlead that kind of suckage? Now, the meter is pegged.

It's not my website, but if it were, I'd get out the Hoover and vacuum up that mess, and empty the bag straight away.


What's happening with these attention-seeking (attention DEMANDING, more like) threads is just not cool. It is making DU suck for a lot of people.

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Response to MADem (Reply #319)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:10 AM

327. So true ! all you have to do is go to another and see the

way other liberal people communicate with each other...like Daily Kos comes to mind. It's
amazingly civil.

I hope Obama writes an extremely honest book when he leaves office and talks about all the factors only he knows when making the decisions he made and taking the positions he took. i feel sorry for him - from day one - the sludge from the right. And, then later, the criticism from our side. He seems to have compartmentalized it all - and just plugs away.


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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #327)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:13 PM

355. He writes beautifully. I think he will write a book, he'll certainly get offers.

I'll bet he's got PLENTY to say, too!

I enjoy a lot of the commentary over at Kos. I thought about joining up over there, but I am an old fart and a creature of habit. The color scheme and the lay-out just aren't kind to my eyes; I have a tough time navigating the place and I don't quite get the "system." If this place gets any more "overrun" (and thanks to MIRT for at least keeping it down to a dull roar) I may try again. That said, I'd rather see this place just get a bit more "civil."

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:00 PM

115. Adding My Support

I read the William Pitt's posts and I sympathized and wished him well. I did not add to the threads because my voice would have been lost in the crowd. It probably will be this time, too, but oh, well.

We are all in this together. DU is an oasis. A place to visit to get away from the crazy world and commiserate with like-minded people. We should not have to justify having this opinion or that point of view because we expect others to understand and have the same outlook on things.

If you don't like a thread or what somebody has to say, leave. It isn't hard. There's no reason to insult someone who is experiencing something that you haven't (yet). No need to argue. ffs, don't be mean. There's a real human being on the other side of the monitor going through a bad time. And that person deserves some TLC from the rest of us. If that's too hard to do, just go back to the main page and choose another thread.

To William Pitt: all the best to you and yours. I wish you well and hope that your situation improves. Insurance company vultures have been treating Americans like they treated your family for years and their day of reckoning can't come soon enough (if ever).

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Response to Leith (Reply #115)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:40 PM

176. Don't worry, your words are not lost in the crowd

I am sure I am not the only one who appreciated your words, thank you for contributing.

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Response to Leith (Reply #115)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 12:48 AM

276. Thanks for your post.

I agree with you and I wish the majority who frequent this site could show at least half the humanity you do. The lack of compassion and short sighted small thinking It is not only a blight on this site but a pretty good picture of what America is becoming. I don't get along with Mr. Pitt too much but I have learned from him and respect him.

I really think those who make the most noise in judgment either have an agenda they are peddling by strafing another DUer in an advertised public forum in support of right wing mockery... or they are too inept to see they are being dragged along by those with the agenda.

In the mean time there is a person under stress with a family and medical issues feeling the same fear and helplessness that millions of Americans feel right now... and the self righteous just sit in line for some sort of bone picking entertainment.

Honestly, I find little value in DU anymore.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:00 PM

116. I support 90%+ of what Will Pitt says. But, I think he could be a bit more polite about how he says

it. He even exploded at me once when I had always been supportive of him

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:00 PM

118. In support of Will Pit… and in disgust with what never should have been said in Brussels today

I suppose I will say again that I am the same person I was when evaluating the world and deciding to join DU. I'm happy to be here.

I'm not happy with the surge in commentary, including some low post counts piling on the vitriol against progressive voices. They are NOT the voices I "heard" when I first came here. They are the voices who have stood by commentary, certainly including Will's.

Reading comprehension is good. So is critical thinking. I know who does it here, and I hope we can get through this very difficult conversation. I don't believe the party "rat fucks" itself, but I believe many 21st century Americans can be hood winked and become "good Democrats" as easily as both century Germans could become "good Germans".

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:01 PM

119. You wrote a sensitive and accurate portrayal of the struggles we suffer or observe

as we look around us. I'm glad you did that.

When it comes to Mr. Pitt and his storehouse of closely observed knowledge, especially about the Iraq War, and other things he talks about from that same huge storehouse I have no problem at all with the fact that he has a temper to lose. I much prefer that kind of honesty to milque toastery.

The only reason I would object to some of the words and characterizations he has used is because they have lit the fire on DU, and in essence are diverting us from the path of hearing the other things he is saying. To me, personally, his point is always worth examining.

I laud you Manny, and support Will Pitt.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:02 PM

123. Fuck that. Respect is earned.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:02 PM

124. The BOG has some spare set of pom poms...

 

want some for your hero worship adulation dance?



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Response to Whisp (Reply #124)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:04 PM

129. You mean for the Obamabots? LOL! nt

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #129)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:07 PM

134. Apparently Pitt saved the free world with his 'truths'.

 

(bwhahaha, Pit and Truth and Karl Rove, great combo)

and while we were crunching cheezie puffs waiting for the Hero to show himself, he was 'out there' on the front, somewhere.... crunching something Better in front of a new keyboard!

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Response to Whisp (Reply #134)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:09 PM

136. Keep worshiping! And whining about Will. nt

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #136)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:14 PM

143. well, you know well how that is, at the Church of Will.

 

or do you call it the Church of Pitt?

what DO you call it?
Maybe we can help name it if you haven't come up with anything yet.

Just remember to genuflect! That's VERY important. And have framed pictures of him in your house, by a copy of that world famous 'book' most haven't heard of (I don't mean the Bible), that Iraq book he co-wrote with that pedophile Ritter, that one.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #143)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:16 PM

147. Ahh, I nailed you and you are mad now. How adorable! n-t

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #147)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:19 PM

152. do you tithe?

 



is there magic underwear involved?

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Response to Whisp (Reply #134)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:10 PM

138. You don't even know what you're talking about.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #124)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:01 AM

279. Can we get some of those spare pom poms out of you garage?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:09 PM

135. K & R in honor of TWO great DUers! n/t

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:09 PM

137. I see this a lot

 

Many of you "old" members of DU would like to restrict membership to your particular circles. That's fine. Maybe you should have silver, gold and platinum forums. That would keep we of the great unwashed out of your hair. You could give us read-only privilege so that we might assimilate some of your great wisdom without the messy problems of replies. Longevity and seniority may give you tenure, but it doesn't necessarily give you credibility.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:10 PM

139. I've got his back

I've argued w/ him, pretty sure I had him on ignore one time, but I never had anything but respect for him, even when I thought he was acting like an ass or I was vehemently disagreeing w/ him. He's not perfect, but then again, nobody is.

He was one of the reasons I found DU in the first place; his opinion carries alot of weight w/ me.

He's a good human being.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:11 PM

141. Jeeze you'd almost think Pitt...

was running for something--maybe a used car salesman or something like that.

Hero Worship defined:

1
: veneration of a hero
2
: foolish or excessive adulation for an individual----yeah, that's the one.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:22 PM

160. Thanks, Manny.

We don't have to agree with someone all the time to realize they deserve respect for their research and writings.

Will and I have had our differences through the years, but when people here start picking on him....or insulting his mother like some posts did.....I am in his corner everytime.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:23 PM

162. I agree with you Manny.

And some things just need to be said, and Will Pitts has the guts to say them.
That is something I respect...even if I don't always agree with him on things.
We said nasty things about Bush and he deserved them all, and to not apply that same standard to a Democrat just because he is one is just hypocrisy.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:29 PM

168. Are the 99% better off than when President Obama took office? That's the real question

and the answer is YES, without a question.

Why are you holding Obama responsible for the losses of the last 30 years?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #168)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:37 PM

206. After Bush even an idiot would have made it better for the 99%.

 

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #206)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:00 PM

216. an idiot? to whom are you referring?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #206)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:17 PM

263. Ahhh DU, where a Dem President is an idiot POS used car salesman.

 

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #168)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:48 PM

210. In what way are things appreciably better for the 99%?

 

Things have never been better for the 1% - their fortunes have soared to the stratosphere since Obama took office.

But for the 99%, things are generally worse, or doing no better than scraping along the bottom. Real unemployment (U6) is still staggeringly high, basically unimproved. Median income and wealth have stayed the same or dropped. The number of homeless school children is at an all-time high, and growing.

But the rich... the rich are doing well. Better every month.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #210)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:02 PM

220. Don't worry. President Cruz will make it all better for the 99%. ????????

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #210)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:19 PM

230. At the end of the Bush administration, we were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs PER MONTH.

And that continued into the first several months of Obama's presidency, till the stimulus bill stopped the plunge.

Real unemployment has significantly improved, though not enough. But it would have been much much worse if Obama hadn't stopped the losses. And the millions of people who were able to receive extended unemployment benefits were better off, even if they were invisible to you.

And millions of people across the country are now eligible for Medicaid who couldn't get it before -- they're all better off. And it's not Obama's fault that the Supreme Court ruled that states could choose to opt out.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #230)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:51 PM

248. Quick, go correct Pew

 

U.S. income inequality, on rise for decades, is now highest since 1928
BY DREW DESILVER69 COMMENTS

Credit: Dorsey Shaw Source: Emmanuel Saez, UC Berkeley
Credit: Dorsey Shaw; Source: Emmanuel Saez, UC Berkeley
President Obama took on a topic yesterday that most Americans don’t like to talk about much: inequality. There are a lot of ways to measure economic inequality (and we’ll be discussing more on Fact Tank), but one basic approach is to look at how much income flows to groups at different steps on the economic ladder.

Emmanuel Saez, an economics professor at UC-Berkeley, has been doing just that for years. And according to his research, U.S. income inequality has been increasing steadily since the 1970s, and now has reached levels not seen since 1928. (The GIF file at the top of this post, created by Dorsey Shaw of Buzzfeed, compares growth in average income of the top 1% of Americans with everyone else.)

Using tax-return data from the IRS, Saez has built extensive income-distribution datasets going back 100 years. He defines “income” as pre-tax cash market income — wages and salaries; dividends, interest, rent and other returns on invested capital; business profits; and realized capital gains. He excludes Social Security payments, unemployment benefits and other government transfer payments, which are more substantial today than before the Great Depression.


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/12/05/u-s-income-inequality-on-rise-for-decades-is-now-highest-since-1928/

And they are not the only ones.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #248)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:25 PM

265. You don't think it would have been worse if Obama hadn't replaced Bush? n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #265)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:31 PM

266. Somebody was going to replace Bush

 

that is the US Constitution. So SOMEBODY was.

The point is that you said things are better. And PEW disagrees, and they are not alone. I guess Pew never loved him either.

Oh and one last thing. I am dealing with facts on the ground, not hypotheticals.

Now if I were writing fiction... which I do from time to time.

Now off to read a wonderful EIR. I told you the other day I spend a lot of time reading policy papers these days.It's late. Should I brew some coffee though? IT IS an environmental impact report after all, they can be a tad on the dry side.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #266)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:33 PM

267. I said things were better for millions of people in the 99%. Isn't that true?

Would those people have gotten Medicaid under Romney? Or extended unemployment? Romney opposed both those things, as well as the stimulus bill.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #267)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 11:44 PM

268. Go argue with Pew, which adds a few shades of gray

 

I am sorry that is hard to understand. This is not binary.

Suffice it to say, under present conditions of rising inequality things have the POTENTIAL to get rather dicey.

Yes, some things are better, but some are not. This is where this comes in.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #248)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 07:58 AM

312. does.....not.....compute.........does....not.......compute

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #210)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:47 PM

245. Make sure you leave out the millions with health insurance.

And Lilly Ledbetter. Oh, and that our troops left Iraq. And every other positive.

Heck, butcher the positives like U6. It's 12.6 now. It was 13.6 when Obama took office, on it's way to 17.1 at the depths of the recession.

And whatever you do, pretend Obama is a dictator so you don't have to talk about Congress when complaining about inaction.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:29 PM

169. I have seen many vicious attacks on various progressive figures and past Democratic presidents

 

by some of the same posters that whine the most about Pitt calling Obama a piece-of-shit used car salesmen in response to a medical crisis in his family.

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Response to Vattel (Reply #169)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:01 PM

188. The very same persons that got pissed off when we criticized Rahm Emmanuel

 

for calling us "fucking retards."

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:30 PM

170. We have our own drama queens here....

 

Then there are the Obama worshippers that I tell Right Wingers are a myth.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 08:44 PM

179. one of my earliest posts on DU was an angry exchange with Will Pitt...

...in which I demonstrated just how wet behind the ears I really was. That was a learning experience. I could not agree with you more, Manny. The K and the R.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:05 PM

190. I brought this story to DU in October

because I thought if very cool that someone I read in Truthout (and here) was recognized for his courage in telling the truth. It's worth repeating -




William Rivers Pitt
Teacher, Writer, Political Activist: b. 1971
"Why so much war? Because war is a profitable enterprise. George W. Bush and his people can hold forth about the wonders of democracy and peace, and can condemn worldwide violence in solemn tones. Until the United States stops being the world's largest arms dealer, these words from our government absolutely reek of hypocrisy."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023841531

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Response to TBF (Reply #190)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 10:01 PM

219. I remember that.

I remember the days when there was a lot of self-censorship going on because Bushco was ginning up the war and redefining patriotism. People were afraid to say publicly that going to war with Iraq was wrong. Remember what a big deal it was when Susan Sarandon flashed a peace symbol at the Oscars(?)?
Pitt and others in that project you posted helped reveal the truth.

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Response to TBF (Reply #190)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:32 PM

379. this

all that is needed, is for darkness to be brought into the light of truth.

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Response to BelgianMadCow (Reply #379)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:56 PM

381. Will's pieces are provocative

and that is what a good writer can do to bring attention to a story. I think we need 100 more like him because we all know the corporate media is only going to publish what Murdoch OKs. We need to hear what the rest of the people in the country are doing - how they are faring - because otherwise we only hear about the beautiful 1%.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:07 PM

191. "Great DUer"

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:15 PM

192. Will is a brilliant writer and a very intelligent guy.

I've been reading his posts on DU since I joined in 2001.

He hasn't changed. DU has changed.

I barely recognize this place.


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Response to dawg (Reply #192)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:37 PM

207. Yup, many of us have noted how much

 

this place has changed, and hardly for the better.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:23 PM

196. Anyone who criticizes the president...

 

is called a racist. This weakens the fact that many attacks on him are racially motivated, IMO.

On edit: and we should have seen that, due to the 2008 primary, when the Hillbots and Obamabots were duking it out.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Mar 27, 2014, 09:24 PM

197. He isn't so great. Ever notice

 

that he just looooves attention to His shit but rarely comments in others threads that need support? Infact he usually hits and runs in his own OPs

He supports himself and his ego, that's about it.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #197)

Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:04 AM

294. true dat. egomania just exudes from the screen. nt

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Response to Whisp (Reply #197)

Sat Mar 29, 2014, 10:35 AM

387. True. As one of the few with high profile and posting under a real name

It's rather disappointing that he has gone anti-Obama and anti-ACA. All over something not really related. And did he have the wife's permission to put her personal medical information out in public? I would think a published writer could reduce the problem to a hypothetical and control the anger - really the anger issues in public are a bit much - but you need to get attention these days and negativity is an easier way to do it. It worked for Greenwald, I suppose. We all know who he is.