Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:07 PM
MannyGoldstein (34,589 posts)
America used to do big things.
Telling our teenager tonight about what it was like to grow up in the 1960s. Space geeks, even tiny ones like me, we knew all of the astronaut's names and thrilled as they went from the first 15-minute flight to the Moon in what... 8 years? Was it really just 8 years?
A real-life adventure. Starring nerds. Serious, serious nerds. Engineers with nerves of steel, riding huge controlled explosions into the stars. Absurd in all respects, but the job got done. I get very excited reliving it, my son thinks I'm a little crazy. He's never known an America like that, how exciting it is to launch forward as a nation instead of civil warring over achingly stupid crap. We'll do big things again! Good, big, things! Hopefully soon!
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35 replies, 1799 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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MannyGoldstein | Mar 2014 | OP |
hrmjustin | Mar 2014 | #1 | |
deathrind | Mar 2014 | #3 | |
1000words | Mar 2014 | #2 | |
madinmaryland | Mar 2014 | #4 | |
MannyGoldstein | Mar 2014 | #5 | |
madinmaryland | Mar 2014 | #9 | |
MannyGoldstein | Mar 2014 | #13 | |
madinmaryland | Mar 2014 | #18 | |
MannyGoldstein | Mar 2014 | #20 | |
madinmaryland | Mar 2014 | #23 | |
MannyGoldstein | Mar 2014 | #26 | |
madinmaryland | Mar 2014 | #29 | |
Gidney N Cloyd | Mar 2014 | #6 | |
RKP5637 | Mar 2014 | #7 | |
Jgarrick | Mar 2014 | #8 | |
MannyGoldstein | Mar 2014 | #10 | |
Jgarrick | Mar 2014 | #11 | |
MannyGoldstein | Mar 2014 | #21 | |
Jenoch | Mar 2014 | #12 | |
ProSense | Mar 2014 | #14 | |
MannyGoldstein | Mar 2014 | #17 | |
oldandhappy | Mar 2014 | #15 | |
pokerfan | Mar 2014 | #16 | |
GeorgeGist | Mar 2014 | #19 | |
hatrack | Mar 2014 | #31 | |
msongs | Mar 2014 | #22 | |
Rex | Mar 2014 | #24 | |
alarimer | Mar 2014 | #25 | |
joshcryer | Mar 2014 | #27 | |
MannyGoldstein | Mar 2014 | #28 | |
joshcryer | Mar 2014 | #30 | |
Spider Jerusalem | Mar 2014 | #32 | |
ConservativeDemocrat | Mar 2014 | #33 | |
mathematic | Mar 2014 | #34 | |
MisterP | Mar 2014 | #35 |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:08 PM
hrmjustin (71,265 posts)
1. The GOP are blocking big things.
Response to hrmjustin (Reply #1)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:13 PM
deathrind (1,786 posts)
3. /\ This X1000
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:10 PM
1000words (7,051 posts)
2. Perhaps our fall will be epic
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:14 PM
madinmaryland (64,150 posts)
4. Unfortunately it will not happen in our lifetimes. I'm an engineer
and my colleagues are more interested in "intelligent design" and how they can install their technology in churches rather than what can be done to move society forward.
Edited to add: They are the "I've got mine, fuck everyone else" crowd, who expect everyone else to pray for their success. I also grew up in the 60's and can't understand the lack of curiosity in this country. Sadly, I do not see anything big happening in this country for many years. Don't know what it take to change things. ![]() |
Response to madinmaryland (Reply #4)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:22 PM
MannyGoldstein (34,589 posts)
5. How do we knock some sense into these people?
World War II was horrible, but it did produce a generation of confident Americans who understood that Science beats Happy Thoughts every time.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #5)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:27 PM
madinmaryland (64,150 posts)
9. Are you suggesting a return of..
Hitler?
No, I didn't think so. We had a rude awaking in late 2001, and all we could fucking do is attack the wrong fucking country and waste at least two trillion dollars. We also had a financial meltdown of proportions that had not been seen since the Great Depression and what did this country do?? Next to nothing. ![]() |
Response to madinmaryland (Reply #9)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:34 PM
MannyGoldstein (34,589 posts)
13. I am in no way suggesting that World War II was a net positive,
or that Hitler was in someway helpful in any way.
Not. At. All. I was talking to a family friend recently who's a pretty high-level HR person on Wall Street. She said that the hottest degree on Wall Street is an EE degree, because they're considered to be the smartest "trainable" people. Once on Wall Street they don't do engineering, of course. Well, maybe Scam Engineering. Anyway, that's where our top engineering talent goes these days. Most of the kids from Harvard, too. Feh. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #13)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:48 PM
madinmaryland (64,150 posts)
18. No. I don't believe that you suggested any of those things....
Now, now, now, I have a EE from the early 80's and where did I end up???
20 years of IT consulting for WS firms. Yeap. I have now graduated to the MIC (Medical Industrial Complex) consulting work. BTW, I'm not from Harvard, but a highly rated university from the midwest. |
Response to madinmaryland (Reply #18)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:57 PM
MannyGoldstein (34,589 posts)
20. MIC IT?
The other MIC is very, very, big. Are you thriving on "meaningful use"?
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #20)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:02 PM
madinmaryland (64,150 posts)
23. Well, there are various options when you order MIC cable...
![]() (this is a non-plenum rated cable): |
Response to madinmaryland (Reply #23)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:15 PM
MannyGoldstein (34,589 posts)
26. That's a lotta bandwidth you're packin' there, mister. nt
Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #26)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:33 PM
madinmaryland (64,150 posts)
29. Yeap. Too bad my ISP doesn't see it that way. They seem more interested in providing me with this.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:23 PM
Gidney N Cloyd (18,853 posts)
6. The RW wants corporations to do the big things and reap the big profits.
If the government leads the way then the flow of profits can't be so easily managed.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:24 PM
RKP5637 (64,505 posts)
7. I remember that extremely well, I was part of the technology build up, the early days of
computers and on up to supercomputers. I feel so lucky to have had the privilege of having been part of those times in America. And the days when the most valued assets a company had were long term highly skilled employees in all types of jobs. Today, most of what I hear is utter nonsense. The flakes in politics today, for example, would have been laughed off the stage as damn fools.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:27 PM
Jgarrick (521 posts)
8. We can't even put a man in orbit today. Pathetic.
Response to Jgarrick (Reply #8)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:28 PM
MannyGoldstein (34,589 posts)
10. We have to pay the Russians to do that for us!
Laugh? Cry?
I need an adult beverage. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #10)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:30 PM
Jgarrick (521 posts)
11. China can do it. Russia can do it. We can't.
Response to Jgarrick (Reply #11)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:58 PM
MannyGoldstein (34,589 posts)
21. Krugman's right, as always.
We need to be attacked by martians. It would fox everything.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:33 PM
Jenoch (7,720 posts)
12. My father once owned a small-town radio station.
He would broadcast live the Apollo liftoffs from Florida. He sold sponsorships to thos special reports. When the space shuttle lift offs were first done he did the same thing. By the time of the Challenger lift off and subsequent explosion there was little interest. I was a young radio announcer at the time. After we broadcast the network's report on the disaster I went back to music, which at the time was on a big reel-to-reel tape machine and completely random. A listener called in to complain because the first song was by Chicago, "If You Leave Me Now."
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:37 PM
ProSense (116,464 posts)
14. Obama's signature on Mars!
![]() http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021392992 President Obama Applauds Mars Curiosity Rover Landing
Following the successful landing of NASA’s Mars Curiosity Rover, the largest and most advanced such unmanned robot launched by NASA, President Barack Obama issued the following statement congratulating the scientists involved for their work: Tonight, on the planet Mars, the United States of America made history. http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/president-obama-applauds-mars-curiosity-rover-landing |
Response to ProSense (Reply #14)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:47 PM
MannyGoldstein (34,589 posts)
17. Pr0n in space!
![]() That plaque is now past the Solar System. You know they must have been hellastoned when they dreamed that up. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:40 PM
oldandhappy (6,719 posts)
15. Back then we had adults in Congress.
Yes, I remember. I remember my parents reading books by both Republicans and Democrats. Also remember McCarthy! Our TV broke that summer and I mother refused to get it fixed!
We will do big things again, but maybe not soon. ![]() |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:41 PM
pokerfan (27,677 posts)
16. steely-eyed missile men
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:54 PM
GeorgeGist (25,128 posts)
19. Now we have billionaires.
Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #19)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:38 PM
hatrack (56,965 posts)
31. Indeed: we have The Donald and the Hair From Beyond Time
Oh, and the crazy-eyed monsters from Planet Bible.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:01 PM
msongs (65,236 posts)
22. top leadership with no vision except for finding the corporate give away holy grail nt
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:04 PM
Rex (65,616 posts)
24. Silly, we don't need to anymore. The Right group got rich enough for there to be no need!
Big things will only be built when they need them to be built. They are the creators!
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:06 PM
alarimer (16,245 posts)
25. Because we have a military that sucks up 70% of the budget.
(or some equally insane figure).
That, coupled with tax-cut mania on the part of even the Democrats, means we can't have nice things like moon landings or, you know, SCIENCE. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:20 PM
joshcryer (62,168 posts)
27. The technological trajectory is too fast for you to notice it.
You will see self-driving electric cars with VR headsets for the passengers in 5 short years, for instance. We went from people needing a land line to make a phone call to carrying phones around in our pockets in 10 years or so.
![]() Your son will never know what that sort of nationalist effort feels like because it is increasingly unnecessary to achieve goals. |
Response to joshcryer (Reply #27)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:30 PM
MannyGoldstein (34,589 posts)
28. That's a very cool chart, thanks.
But where's my jet-pack?
![]() |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #28)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:36 PM
joshcryer (62,168 posts)
30. You can fly in the metaverse as your car drives you to work.
It could even be an augmented reality version of the roadtrip.
![]() (Mind you it won't be mainstream in 5 years but it'll exist, VR is making a huge upswelling, what with Facebook acquiring Occulus recently. In 10 years they will be as pervasive as cell phones are now.) |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:50 PM
Spider Jerusalem (21,786 posts)
32. JFK didn't give a damn about the moon, you know.
He cared about beating the Soviets, for symbolic value, but going to the moon? Not so much:
President Kennedy: Everything that we do ought to really be tied into getting onto the
Moon ahead of the Russians. James Webb: Why can’t it be tied to preeminence in space, which are your own…. President Kennedy: Because, by God, we keep, we’ve been telling everybody we’re preeminent in space for five years and nobody believes it because they have the booster and the satellite. We know all about the number of satellites we put up, two or three times the number of the Soviet Union…we’re ahead scientifically. It’s like that instrument you got up at Stanford which is costing us a hundred and twenty-five million dollars and everybody tells me that we’re the number one in the world. And what is it? I can’t think what it is. Interruption from multiple unknown speakers: The linear accelerator. President Kennedy: I’m sorry, that’s wonderful, but nobody knows anything about it! James Webb: Let me say it slightly different. The advanced Saturn is eighty-five times as powerful as the Atlas. Now we are building a tremendous giant rocket with an index number of eighty-five if you give me Atlas one. Now, the Russians have had a booster that’ll lift fourteen thousand pounds into orbit. They’ve been very efficient and capable in it. The kinds of things I’m talking about that give you preeminence in space are what permits you to make either that Russian booster or the advanced Saturn better than any other. A range of progress possible it is so much different [unknown]. President Kennedy: The only…. We’re not going to settle the four hundred million this morning. I want to take a look closely at what Dave Bell…. But I do think we ought get it, you know, really clear that the policy ought to be that this is the top-priority program of the Agency, and one of the two things, except for defense, the top priority of the United States government. I think that that is the position we ought to take. Now, this may not change anything about that schedule, but at least we ought to be clear, otherwise we shouldn’t be spending this kind of money because I’m not that interested in space. I think it’s good; I think we ought to know about it; we’re ready to spend reasonable amounts of money. But we’re talking about these fantastic expenditures which wreck our budget and all these other domestic programs and the only justification for it, in my opinion, to do it in this time or fashion, is because we hope to beat them and demonstrate that starting behind, as we did by a couple years, by God, we passed them. http://history.nasa.gov/JFK-Webbconv/pages/transcript.pdf The most justifiable reasons for a new Manhattan Project/Apollo Program in the present day? Mitigating climate change and developing fusion. Anything else is just more pointless dick-waving. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 12:01 AM
ConservativeDemocrat (2,720 posts)
33. You're blind, Manny
With a bad memory.
Here we are, communicating across the entire world, on an "internet forum", and you're whining about us not doing big things? We've discovered over 1800 extra-solar planets just in the past five years, and you're whining about us not doing big things? Scientists have re-programmed the AIDS virus to cure cancer, and you're whining about us not doing big things? Our phones became cordless, then became cellular, and now show us faces, just like in all those sci-fi movies, and you're whining about us not doing big things? Jimminy Cricket on a Stick, Manny. What do you want, anyway? Seriously, I'm beginning to understand you. You're just a crotchety old man. Unlike me. I'm a non-crotchety old man. - C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 12:13 AM
mathematic (1,267 posts)
34. Still does, just different things
The Human Genome Project is what comes to mind. It's hard to believe that it was just over a decade ago that the decade long, multibillion dollar project completed. The technology has advanced so far that we can do the same thing nowadays on an individual level for mere thousands of dollars.
Sometimes "big things" are small things done by a big number of people. Take the transformative technologies of widespread connectivity, smart phones, video and music recording and editing, and the Internet in general. Similarly, open source software is both big and critically important from a freedom-and-democracy perspective. Some big things right around the corner: Grid-parity solar power. Bionic limbs and other medical treatments for things that we've traditionally thought of as permanent disabilities. It's very easy to get excited about science and technology today, it's just not the same things that have been exciting in the past. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 12:50 AM
MisterP (23,730 posts)
35. I'm oddly certain this is the Shuttle's fault
OPEC and Operation Ranch Hand and generalized failures of the postwar technocracy aside, the SS sorta choked out general rocketry
even if the Venture Bros. dazzle went out of spaceflight, we still had a lot of heavy-lifter options |