I don't usually like grave dancing threads

[BainsBane]

But I'm making an exception in this case.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=106681&sub=trans

Thank you, Earl G. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[JI7]

1. i saw that and was just too digusted, he was blaming the victims of rape

for any problems there are .

[BainsBane]

4. And the juries all came back 3-3

Thankfully, the administrators acted. It was the sort of thing he did regularly, but in singling out a rape survivor for relentless ridicule, he stepped over the line.

[Whisp]

157. Juries as they are have to go!! how the hell can 3 people support this kind of thing!

I hope the admin are looking into these cretinous blobs of nothing.

[seabeyond]

2. i don't cotton to a man telling me the reason i speak out as a woman is cause i am damaged goods

and am emotionally whatever and need therapy.

and i especially do not cotton to a man getting off going after a woman throwing this garbage on her. and when she has asked him to stop the condescending caring bullshit he lays it on thicker with glee.

it had gotten to the point of a sick little game, with other peoples lives.

[Aerows]

27. Love you much, Sea

Can't really say anything other than this was an interesting turn of events.

[nomorenomore08]

51. *Everyone* is "damaged goods" by that logic. So they're invalidating their own views as well

even if they clearly don't realize it.

[Treant]

90. That's my working theory

We all have our hot-button issues. Bully somebody in front of me sometime and you'll get 160 pounds of middle-aged male coming down on you like...well, 160 pounds of slightly squishy foam bricks that creak a bit as they descend.

The key is not be a complete jerk and set off somebody's hot-button issue. Somehow, I manage that for years at a time.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

99. Yep.

Laughed, identified.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

111. It seems that there is a lot of that going round lately, but luckily the ones in question

take a long needed permanent vacation.

[seabeyond]

114. ya. i get it. you are obsessed with me, and me getting hides and time outs. lol. too cute

dont know what your trip is.... but play. bothers me not.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

184. I haven't alerted on you. As for trip, I don't understand.

Puzzled,

RDO

[seabeyond]

185. meh... alert, dont, none of my business.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

186. Do you have me confused with somebody else?

[JustAnotherGen]

126. In total agreement

GLAD very glad I missed the thread/posts that prompted this.

[Dorian Gray]

166. Me too....

[me b zola]

173. I know what you mean

As I generally am met with dismissal and treated as though there is something wrong with me when I post threads about an issue that is important to me. Attempting to change the cultural acceptance of something that needs reform requires a thick skin to protect from the haters who for whatever reason don't want to acknowledge your pain suffered from injustices.

[BainsBane]

187. What bothers me

Is why people can't accept that DUers are going to have different concerns and therefor post about issues that interest some but not others. Someone isn't interested in a thread, they can just pass over it. Of course, there is far more to it than that.

[madaboutharry]

3. The fact that there were

no post hidden in last 90 days makes a case for an adjustment to the jury system at DU.

[BainsBane]

6. Absolutely

And it wasn't because he wasn't alerted on. I myself alerted on several of his insults to the person mentioned in the tombstone message. They all came back 3-3 except for one that was 2-4.

[XemaSab]

100. I think I was on the jury for the 2-4 one

and I forwarded that shit to Skinner.

[BainsBane]

101. Seems like a number of people contacted Skinner about him

over the past couple of days. Thanks for doing so.

[Ms. Toad]

116. I alerted on a couple, even though by that time I knew the jury had left them.

I figure the more alerts - even if nothing is hidden - the more likely the admins are to act. But, I must say, I am pleasantly surprised.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

28. Ba-Zinga.

[Scootaloo]

34. or a higher quality of juror, at least

There's a few dumbfuck "types" of Juror.

The Little Lebowski: "That's just, like, his opinion, man!" - These guys are indifferent to pretty much any problem. They're okay people generally, they'll vote to hide for obvious insults or real craziness, but it has to be blazingly obvious (especially if the little lebowski is, themselves, blazed.) Everything else is just a difference of opinion, why do you have to harsh?

The Freedumb Fighter: "I do not approve of censorship! I don't care what he called that other poster, he has the right to say it!" - If the last guy was Jeff, this is Walter. The one-legged libertarian limping around in circles yelling about freedom of speech and decrying "censorship." He is abjectly opposed to the very notion of juries, and rather than simply declining duty, he joins in to "fight the man" by informing us that juries are bullshit and he votes to keep.

The Equivocator: "Frankly, I think this whole thread should be locked,. everyone sucks, so i see no reason to hide this post." I hate this guy. You should, too. He'll see the nastiest post in the thread appear before him, and like a smart guy he'll look at the context of the thread to see if there's anything the alerter left out.. .but wait.. .someone else said something nasty too, and that post didn't get hidden, so why should he vote to hide this one? Of course he just called another DU'er a pedophile, a nazi, and a kardashian all rolled into one, but two wrongs make a right!

Meh.: "Meh." Meh.

The Debate Moderator: "Rather than alerting, you should confront the person and defeat them in honorable argument." like the freedumb Fighter, the Debate Moderator loathes the jury system. Unlike his couch potato revolutionary counterpart however, the Debate moderator isn't ideologically opposed to hiding posts, but he thinks that every point should be argued considered, parried, and "dealt with." because it makes him smart to think trolls can be defeated by logic. I invite the Debate moderator to come to I/P to learn how well that works.

The Fanboy: "I've know JerryFromTipperary0303 for fifteen years! He's a great guy and has over two hundred thousand posts! Who do you think YOU are alerting on such an alumni of DU?!" Yes, these people exist. yes, that is the argument they make - argument from post count. If you've not been on the site longer than the person you alert on, the fanboy will close ranks and defend the alerted person, even if there's nothing worth defending.

+1!: "No explanation given" - So you just came across someone advocating, i dunno, Stand Your Ground as a form of population control for black communities. You alert. And three people vote to leave it alone, without ever saying why. Well... that's because they agree with the sentiment but don't have the spine to say so. Why not guys, c'mon!

[seabeyond]

38. that is so fuggin excellent. did you make that up? very creative. i love. nt

[Scootaloo]

44. I did, though I drew inspiration from the old Flame Warriors Roster

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/index.htm

[nomorenomore08]

52. This should be an OP. If you have the stomach, that is. n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

81. That's awesome.

[delrem]

110. Whenever I'm on a jury

I have to read sometimes freaky threads. Correspondence between people who probably have nothing in common with me beyond perusing DU, discussing subjects that I'm next to totally ignorant of.
Given that almost universal condition, I dutifully start backreading the threads.

#1: I hate jurors who presume to judge before examining even that little context! The assholes.

[seabeyond]

115. me, too. it is not about looking at one post being alerted on and saying.... done. i agree. nt

[Skidmore]

134. I do too.

Sometimes I'll start and then realize that I don't have the time to plumb the depths of the exchange so I just bow out and let someone else take a shot at it.

[madaboutharry]

120. This is epic!

It deserves its own post, if only to see of it's hidden or locked.

[BainsBane]

121. Genius

with one omission: the "she deserves it" juror.

[SidDithers]

125. This should a thread on its own...

It's excellent.



Sid

[FSogol]

129. Well done. Nailed some jurors perfectly.

[MerryBlooms]

131. Win!

[treestar]

133. Great post

Thanks for taking the time for it!

[jeff47]

163. Minor addition:

I've got nowhere near the skill with words, but it would be nice to add a "Silent Alerter" to this list.

I've been on juries where the alerter didn't bother to add any comments. Or just included a word or two, not making it at all clear why the post should be hidden.

Post : "The weather is nice"

Alert: "Hide this!"

[LeftyMom]

192. I think a lot of those are intentionally gaming the system by preventing a real alert.

At least one poster's been caught doing this.

[Capt. Obvious]

196. i like cjeekdgg

[CreekDog]

164. yes, this

[Dorian Gray]

167. I haven't been on many juries

but there was an instance where I let something stand bc I thought that the bigotry showed should be read by people so they'd know who they were dealing.

[seabeyond]

168. Everyone reads a hide. A guarantee people will see bigotry and bigot will hear bad... Nt

[Dorian Gray]

169. Yeah...

I've since realized that.

Hides are more prone to be read by some because we're naturally curious about the "bad things."

[tblue37]

202. Yes, and if the ugly post gets hidden, then it adds to the 3 strikes total, so there is

a good reason to hide such posts.

[Kali]

170. echoing the other "awesome" comments

[Number23]

83. I was just about to say something very similar. That poster was as blatant as they could be

His posts in the white privilege threads for example were ridiculous. But not one single hide.

[greatauntoftriplets]

130. Truer words, etc.

[treestar]

132. so true; that system is being gamed

for all it is worth.

[City Lights]

139. Totally agree. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. Recent jury results

On Sun Mar 30, 2014, 07:45 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Actually not.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4753800

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Insulting insinuation that leftymom is mentally ill. This is inappropriately personal. She simply pointed out that her rapist didn't see his attack on her as rape, and he goes on to accuse her of needing help, being angry, lashing out (other posts) and all sorts of things. He inappropriately personalizes a social problem by pretending it's all about this one member simply because she said she had been raped. This is emotionally predatory behavior throughout this thread. He needs to get a hide or will continue to harass rape survivors this way. Please look at the exchange as a whole.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 30, 2014, 08:07 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: All RC is guilty of is being a nanny.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I had to read through the thread to see how abusive and despicable RC's post actually is. On the surface, it looks innocuous, but this is the work of a first order abuser and predator. I think RC should be banned from DU for his posts on this thread. They are outrageous, disgusting, and deliberate.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There's nothing wrong with the post that was alerted on. It would be silly to hide the comment. If the alert was on some of RC's other comments in the thread I would vote differently, but I have to judge the post that was alerted on.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Personal opinon. Perhaps instead of running to a jury you can argue from your point of view.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[BainsBane]

8. That was my alert

Were you juror 3?

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. Yup

[BainsBane]

10. Good for you

I saw that and I thought, "I hope the administrators pay attention to that." Well done.

[mattclearing]

32. Applause

[XemaSab]

104. Nicely done

[greatauntoftriplets]

138. Well done!

[myrna minx]

150. Thank you.

[LumosMaxima]

17. I wish I'd been on that jury.

I cannot understand how anyone could justify voting to leave that.

[kcr]

22. He was gross

Last edited Tue Apr 1, 2014, 02:08 AM - Edit history (1)

:barf: His post with the finger wag was especially creepy.

[JI7]

11. a lot of his comments in that thread are just gross and creepy

the fake disgusting concern for those who have been abused at the same time blaming them .

[CreekDog]

12. i wonder if any MRA trolls were on the jury? they were popping up in the thread

one after another, in fact. getting banned throughout the day.

of course when a low post count troll posts, if it's the sock of an existing longtime member, the longtime member can be chosen for juries.

while the sock does their dirty work on the outside, the jury service does the dirty work behind the scenes.

what else explains it? saying a rape victim is damaged goods and some jurors call alerting on that "silly"? or the other reasons they voted to leave it?

and it happened again and again in that thread.

[BainsBane]

16. Probably

There were several alerts, all with similar results in terms of the vote.

[seabeyond]

13. juror 3 was good. and ya. as individual posts... people didnt get it. when reading his posts

regularly, it was very clear. i say he was getting off on it. that it ad gotten sick. i like how juror 3 said it. that is right on.

On the surface, it looks innocuous, but this is the work of a first order abuser and predator.

[passiveporcupine]

113. first order abuser and predator

Yep...a manipulator.

[Bobbie Jo]

19. More....

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Sun Mar 30, 2014, 08:05 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

No, it's because I can see the problems, the anger issues, the passive aggressive responses here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4755315

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

He entered this thread and proceeded to tell leftymom to get therapy rather than talking in public. He then accuses her of having anger issues and plays the victim. He comes to harass rape survivors, is consistently rude, inappropriately personal in trying to turn a social issue into a matter of one member's personal pathology (a member who isn't even the OP), and then preaches about how she should get along better with others after he was the one who systematically insulted and belittled her. He needs to be shown this kind of behavior is unacceptable.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 30, 2014, 08:32 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It seems to me that this is a reasonable part of an intense discussion.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I wish I could vote on this poster's series of posts. Just a string of personal attacks. Condescending and hurtful. Empathy, my ass.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The explanation for this alert does not fit the specific post alerted on. I suspect this is not the first alert attempting to shut RC out from the conversation.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yeah, easy hide here. Consistently rude, insulting, and divisive.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Real piece of work, that one. Good riddance.

[seabeyond]

33. wow. and so it goes, always, with this character. thanks. interesting. nt

[boston bean]

42. ahem, juror #4...

RC needed his ass to be shut out from the conversation.

juror #2... there was nothing reasonable in his posts. they were mean, condescending, misogynistic, taunting.

[Bobbie Jo]

48. For the record

I was juror #5.

His behavior in that thread was absolutely vile.

[boston bean]

50. I certainly wouldn't have ever thought you were jurot 1,2 or 4.

[Bobbie Jo]

59. Didn't think so, just thought I should ID my vote

since I posted the results.


Truly, jurors 2 and 4 -WTF??

[cui bono]

64. On this I completely agree with you. And he was so passive-aggressive.

Trying to help.... my ass.

[BainsBane]

161. That was deliberate cruelty

[Number23]

109. Damn. The alerter practically drew a fucking map for the jurors and three folks STILL voted to not

hide it. Reminds me of some blatant trolling of black posters here.

I have no doubt that it was your comment that got the poster shown the door. Since admins have said they review every single alert, whether a post is hidden or not. They would have seen your comments.

[etherealtruth]

122. Me too!

.... as in life, the ignorant and hate filled are usually "equal opportunity" in spewing their ignorant and "x-ist" garbage. I expect no less from them ... the refusal of some juries to hide the trash is what is truly disturbing.

[CreekDog]

7. sounds like a good day for that

[CreekDog]

14. Bye Bye RC! I will always remember you

Always remember that you suck.

[boston bean]

15. The guy was a creep with a real complex and borderline hatred for women

due to his former girlfriend.

Jiminy, his entire view of feminism was tainted by his one bad relationship. Which, as far as I could tell, just from knowing him here, couldn't have been just her fault, obviously. LOL.

Most women don't like misogynists.

[WillyT]

18. If You Say So...

Member since: 2001
Number of posts: 25,592
Number of posts, last 90 days: 1065

[XemaSab]

31. This was unacceptable:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4754110

[seabeyond]

36. he spent most of those posts attacking women calling us damaged goods. emotional problems ergo what

Last edited Tue Apr 1, 2014, 12:51 AM - Edit history (1)

we say is discredited.

i betcha it didnt touch on you much, or most men and probably had pretty ok experiences with him. for us, the last two years have not been so mellow.

sorry as a long time duer he was finally kicked off. maybe if his post calling us out were heard, and others challenged him calling us damaged goods, then he would not have felt embolden to go as far as he did with a particular poster.

[WillyT]

46. Um... I Walked Three Different Women To Planned Parenthood For D & C's In The '70s...

I was not the father of a one of those pregnancies... I just had the humanity to hold their hands. When others would not.

I had one sister who got beaten up, more than once...

Another sister whose boyfriend killed himself right in front of her, and who a couple of years later got stabbed in the back for turning I guy down for wanting to dace with her.

My mom had four kids, yet 5 miscarriages, and was deemed by the male OBG-YNs as an "habitual aborter".

So yeah... I have an idea or two.



BTW... Did you see this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024762235

[BainsBane]

49. No one attacked you, Willy

You don't need to defend your views on women's rights. Sea simply said you likely weren't among those badgered by RC. The guy was relentlessly cruel, and juries let him get away with it.

[WillyT]

54. Ok... I Obviously Missed It... And... We've Got People Here For All Sorts Of Reasons...

And I hate when original/old time posters get kicked...

It ain't just the fact that they could be wrong...

It's that they are mad... like many of us... and say stupid things when they are mad.

But... Thank You !!!

[cui bono]

67. No, it wasn't just heat of the moment anger. He systematically stalked certain posters

and in this one thread he told a rape survivor she was playing the victim card (not true) and that she was in distress (not true) and asked if she had sought help. He did that in a very passive-aggressive way, pretending he was just trying to help. So while his posts got by jury review, they were very hostile in a passive-aggressive way. There was no reason for it. He obviously has an issue with feminists.

[WillyT]

71. Thanks... Was Unaware...

[WillyT]

56. OTOH... Nobody's Giving This Thread Love...

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024762235

[seabeyond]

69. we have had her in hof. she was a wonderful surprise and an awesome woman

then to think about her times and be all that. i truly admire these women from the past. and their voice.

as baines says, i was explaining, but in no way calling you out or anything, for anything. i do not like seeing longtimers go either.

[WillyT]

79. I Love How She Recognized Men's "Independence"... With Women's...

[MineralMan]

135. EarlG says so...

And many others agree. Hidden posts are not the only measure of a disruptor, although sometimes they serve their purpose well. If you believe that RC was PPRed in error, a DU Mail to EarlG would seem to be the best approach. I predict your post in this thread will not be well-received.

[demmiblue]

20. Dude was a delusional creeper with a persecution complex. n/t

[BainsBane]

23. No kidding

He seemed to periodically pick a new woman to fixate on and decide she was personally responsible for all that ailed DU. A while back it was me, but the way it did it with the person mentioned in the PPR notice was way over the line. He accused her of lashing out and needing psychological help when all she said was that her rapist didn't consider his attack on her rape. That was enough for him to hound her relentlessly. He decided to make the entire discussion of rape culture about her personally, attributing it to a personal pathology rather than a social issue. It was really ugly. And of course juried hid none of it.

[seabeyond]

40. ya. i forgot. he was on your ass. and i guess helped to feed jt getting harrassed for her post.

forgot

[Jamastiene]

21. After what he said to a poster who had been raped, he had it coming.

That was atrocious. Good riddance.

No woman should have to hear that kind of garbage from some asshole after she's dealt with rape. The aftereffects of rape are lifelong, while the rapist has zero to deal with afterward. That poster needed to be PPRed for that shit.

[rhett o rick]

24. I support the PPR but not the grave dancing.

Last edited Tue Apr 1, 2014, 12:57 AM - Edit history (1)

But, after some education, I respect that some may have good reason to dance.

[BainsBane]

26. Call me a hypocrite all you like

I have no problem with it. That guy hounded me and many other women on this site in the most ugly and abusive manner. I an thrilled he is gone.

[rhett o rick]

35. I do not think you are a hypocrite and I wouldnt wish that treatment on anyone.

Maybe it's just me, but I think grave dancing should be beneath all of us. Maybe I need to rethink this, but it seems like a slippery slope when we rationalize this behavior. I would hope the ignore function would alleviate that type of bullying.

[BainsBane]

41. I tried that

Then he simply posted stuff to and about me that I couldn't see to send alerts on. Ignore actually emboldens some. Also he moved from one woman to another, and the last one was a rape survivor he harassed cruelly. That was clearly the limit as far as the administrators are concerned.

I understand your concerns and agree with them in principal. However, I'm violating that principal in this thread. I'm human.

[Scootaloo]

37. I support both

Ridding the site of hateful trolls is always cause for celebration.

[seabeyond]

43. first one. i totally oppose and over ten years have not participated. people i dislike in RL

or duers.

i am not really graving dancing. more addressing the issues we had and most of us put up with and how it was allowed to stand for so long.

but... over ten years of disliking gravedancing and refusing to be a part....

if you choose to label me that per my posts in this thread, i can understand. your right. not gonna argue with you.

[rhett o rick]

68. On hindsight I should only state my objection without condemning others.

I am not found of the self-righteous, but catch myself of falling into the trap myself.

I can certainly see that someone like the subject poster can cause harm to others. I should be careful who I judge. If Cheney should ever die, I may be first in line to do the dance. I will edit my post. I thank those of you that were polite with your responses.

[seabeyond]

72. see. and i would not

step into the cheneyfest.

but i hear what you say. cause i have always held t that myself.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

25. If you're reading, RC,

get help, please.

[steve2470]

29. yep nt

[boston bean]

39. lol

[BainsBane]

45. It's not really funny though

His persecution complex regarding women really is off the charts. The irony is he was lecturing the other poster about seeking help. Obviously I couldn't respond in kind because my post would have been hidden, but I thought geez, talk about irony.

[boston bean]

47. well, you are right, his complex is not funny.

but in the context of his banning, I found it to be a bit tongue in cheek.

[seabeyond]

77. interesting. and look. you are so insightful now.

i would not have guessed A.

[seabeyond]

95. ahhhhh. ya.

that would be a huge step forward. yes. thanks.

[BainsBane]

88. As many of us can use help

but to use that as a way to get women to shut up about rape and rape culture--that was over the line. He made it all about one member, when there were a number of rape survivors in that thread and many more reading it.

[tammywammy]

30. He deserved being PPRed. n/t

[UtahLib]

53. He became emboldened

by the fact that his disgusting posts, harassing rape victims, were not being hidden. I think his targets and those who witnessed the abuse can be forgiven a little grave dancing.

[LeftyMom]

55. Thanks, everybody, for backing me up.

I think it's really great how well everybody managed to respond to that creep's bullshit calmly and with restraint when he was clearly trying to provoke.

[Rex]

73. That was crap the way he talked about you and not to you.

I'm glad the admins finally removed the garbage. You gave him a perfect example of rape culture and he completely ignored what you said!

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[seabeyond]

87. actually, he played a wonderful role in the rape culture, now that you mention it. nt

[Rex]

89. Blaming the victim is an easy way to piss me off.

So was this guy doing this since 2001? Holyfuckingshite. His initials, RC. Rape culture? I admit I did not notice the constant hounding of feminists until DU3.

[seabeyond]

91. no. i do not recall him at all until meta. so ya, du3.

it was hof who he was angry about. so, that would be du3 too. i dunno. he was nowhere on my radar.

[Rex]

94. I think we fought in GD over politics in general.

Had no idea he was a rape apologist, glad he finally exposed himself and got banned.

[cui bono]

75. The way he kept on going after you in that passive-aggressive manner was disgusting.

Sorry you had to deal with it. Good for you for not going off on him, which is what he was most likely trying to do.

[stevenleser]

127. I'm ashamed that someone said those things to you.

And I am sorry that it happened and glad that poster got what they deserved.

[myrna minx]

151. I'm late to this, but I wanted to say that I have nothing

but the highest respect for you and you didn't deserve that atrocious behavior. I'm glad the admins chose to PPR that poster - it was a long time coming, imho.

[flvegan]

205. .

I guess restraint can be a good thing. Doublethanks to them all from me as well, for obvious reasons.

Restraint...gotta look that one up. *scratches head*

[LeftyMom]

206. In case anybody's wondering, I PM'd him and asked him to keep out of it.

He's already been banned over standing up for me once.

[Ohio Joe]

57. Good...

I'm really just going to leave it at that.

[hrmjustin]

58. I hope he rereads his posts and realizes the hurtful shit he posted.

I am a rape survivor and those posts brought me to a place I did not want to go back to. Those posts made me sick to my stomach!

Rape victims should NEVER be spoken to in that manner!

[LeftyMom]

61. I hate to say it, but I think that's what he was trying to do, and he got off on it.

And no, I don't really mean that in a figurative way.

[hrmjustin]

63. I am so sorry he posted those things to you.

No one should have to go through that.

[boston bean]

65. He has done it to so many on this board.

And believe me, he isn't the only one to do this.

[hrmjustin]

66. I am glad the admins put a stop to it.

This was just so hurtful and meanspirited.

[LeftyMom]

70. TBH I'm glad that if it had to happen it happened to me and not to somebody for whom the wounds were

fresh. I took a little walk, I got some coffee, I was fine.

Which was the darkly humorous thing about the situation- at least for me, I do have a weird sense of humor- he insisted on saying how damaged and angry and broken I am, and I'm not. If I was I would have told him to fuck off and I would have gotten a post hidden and he would still be here.

[hrmjustin]

74. Yes I see what you mean.

The good thing is the admins put a stop to it.

[boston bean]

78. Lefty, it was just a tactic to try to win, shut you up, and put you in a bad place.

you did it right!

Take care!

[seabeyond]

82. i agree with you. literally. as i listened the last two days... watching him push it further and

further. i really do agree. i became very aggressive in my posts, trying to get him to just stop.

but ya. i think he was getting off. by this afternoon that is what it felt like

[Sheldon Cooper]

158. Oh I've often thought that some of these people are posting with

only one hand on the keyboard.

[seabeyond]

162. kinda the benny, .... i needed to kick some women around.... nt

[R B Garr]

182. I totally agree! He was baiting and provoking just to get posts hidden.

It's almost methodical how these types target women here and pick one to cut out of the crowd and proceed to try and isolate something about them that they think will hurt and/or anger them, and in the process of defending themselves or their point, maybe he can get a post hidden by alerting on something they said out of frustration.

There is obviously a method to this because it is very prevalent with certain types of posters here, including a few of their enablers.

I'm so glad you were too smart to take his bait. I always stop and read your posts because you have such a strong progressive voice, and I find myself nodding my head in agreement with almost everything you say. What's so scary yet predictable about that now banned poster is what he said about his own personal story about his wife leaving him and how he raised his kids on his own. I can't imagine how many alerted posts from his men friends there would be if anyone here tried to exploit his story like he was trying to do to you.

[Warpy]

62. That phony concern was especially nauseating

I'm not dancing, but I'm relieved not to be reading his garbage.

[nomorenomore08]

76. I could not believe how full of himself that guy was. Like he was God's gift to the fucking world.

I just regret that I never got a chance to tell him what a piece of shit he is.

[BainsBane]

80. He knows now

I would bet he is reading this.

[boston bean]

84. I bet he never saw it coming.

He had gotten away with this crap for so long.

Then bam, pow.. EarlG dropped the banhammer..

He isn't blaming himself though. He doesn't have the capacity for self reflection.

[BainsBane]

86. He saw himself as the victim

That a member merely mentioned she had been raped was to him "lashing out in anger." He pulled that victimization game (all while attacking) with me for a long time, until I finally posted some links showing he had been calling me out and talking crap about me. It was really weird. He said "provide links" when I just had. He in fact demanded twice and then I pointed him back to where I had produced them, at the very top of a short post. So strange. After that he moved on to someone else, evidently leftymom.

[Hekate]

85. KnR and a cheery goodby nt

[Number23]

93. I'll dance with ya

?w=320&h=239

THAT one had issues. About alot of different things. I've always agreed with you about certain people and their obvious issues with blacks, women, POC and other minorities and that one fit the bill to a T.

[msanthrope]

107. Definitely warped. nt

[BainsBane]

108. I didn't see his posts on race issues

but I can't say I'm surprised. Funny how these things so often go together.

[Number23]

112. He was on the wrong side of that issue and others for a long time, not just recently

And of course, he is by NO MEANS the only one here on the wrong side on race issues.

Reading that poster's journal gives more than a few clues. http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/?com=journals&uid=106681&month=2&year=2013&page=2

[salin]

176. Not surprising.

Some individuals are simply so self-centered that *everything* is about him/her, and if a discussion occurs that raises concerns about issues of equality or harm - for others groups that do not include him/her, they simply stake a claim in the issue (usually some form of victimhood) and posture either defiantly, or just obtusely.

The best that I can describe what happens is that because the only dimension in which this type can operate on is the one that has him/her or his/her group in the center (all others only orbiting around him/her) this type has to inject his/herself (or his/her group) into the issue. This is done by flipping the frame of the issue/discussion around by claiming some "cost" to him/her or their group is being caused by the issue being discussed and thus due to perceived cost - and a role of victimization or aggrieved is adopted. They always operate from a pugnacious, zero sum game position.

RC strikes me as one of those types.

Oh and and the type usually has a heavy dose of smugness and superiority that slips out here and again, as happened on the thread that led to his final demise. And oh what an ugly and vicious swan dive that was.

[BainsBane]

177. So true

and many others fit that description of self-centeredness.

[salin]

190. The degree varies,

and thankfully in the past 1 1/2 years since I let my membership drop after nearly 10 years of support (due to the 2 historic rape threads and subsequent allowance of remaining regardless of alerts; and subsequent awful threads/responses) I am finding a very different tone in these types of discussions. The discussions are very different than they were in Dec/Jan 2013. And when I go back to a some heated discussions in 2002 or 2003 in DU - the discussions are exceptionally different. In a good way.

[seabeyond]

191. i remember what you are talking about the 'rape week' is what i call it. horrible for many.

are you saying today, what you are hearing in discussion, is different from then, in a good way? are you feeling maybe more aware, speaking out, what? i am in the middle so i cannot see what youa re seeing. but, i would appreciate your perspective

[salin]

197. Yes. But let me give context.

I started reading DU in 2001, and joined in Jan. of 2002. There were not many discussions that I recall, when we were a community of under 10k, around rape. When they arose - if it was late at night (not many posters active) - it could get disgusting. Not often, but when it occurred it was memorable, for me (as a rape survivor.)

The tone of those old threads was often that "many" women liked "bad boys" - so even "good boys" had to mistreat women, just to get dates. These threads didn't survive day time discussions when more posters were present, but I recall some late nights that left me retching. However, these threads were far and few between. In great part (imo) because we were united in distress over the GWB lead up to war and eventual wars (Iraq and Afghanistan.)

My point - to back then, is when it got ugly, it got really ugly. And there wasn't always an admin/mod. to lock - and by the time it might have been reviewed - it was already buried under new threads.

I participated more in the early years (2002-2005) because I had some time and space to do so. I still read regularly (LBN and GD) - usually 2 x a day - they are quick reads, so I do not read everything. I miss a lot - per dynamics between posters.

I had many discussions over the years where my experience was germane and was referenced. However, after the community grew large, I do not recollect crazy rape threads which left me emotionally drained, or if I still had emotion - outraged - until the early DU3 days.

I had always paid du 1 time a year, rather than monthly. Around February. I recall this, because that time frame (when I came to du) became traumatic - in a brief period of time. You Know the threads - I posted some (which is my style - over alerting), and egregious things were posted. Once I realized that the to OPs explained the mindset of my rapist (back in the mid 80s), and I saw that they had significant support, and that the threads were let to stand - I could no longer be a member (which due to pure timing was simultaneous. Time to renew, was clearly the time to withdraw).

Because I had been a paying member for years, I kept reading, and looking for the time to reengage. But across the year innocuous posts would lead to so many rape apologies, that I couldn't retake the plunge.

But over time... the norms at du have changed. Not externally imposed norms, but internally expanded views. In the course of the recent "rape culture" threads (over the past several months) the tone has changed. The expansion of "getting it" has changed - even the expansion of the breadth of what the term means, has changed - for the great majority of voices chiming in.

Indeed it is this series of threads that has made me hopeful. Yes there are the centric posters who make it ugly. But the number of voices that chime in response, is great, compared to a far smaller number that react in support of the centric posters. The content of those posts demonstrate expanded awareness than what was posted when I stepped formally away from DU (per being a "star" member).

[seabeyond]

198. sigh.... this.

this is what i was hoping that you saw. thank you. i would love to direct this post into hof, for others to see.

i do hear what you are saying. i walked du, seeing what you did, from 2004 on. so i know what you mean. especially, late at night.

i see what you mean, today, on the threads

us being in the middle of it are addressing the same few over and over, while trying to get our voices out for more insight what we experience today. challenging, but i feel, productive to those reading and not posting. wasnt it you that jumped in a thread, with the 3 yr old raped, telling me that today, we are speaking out about it more. at the least, it is visible? i think it was you. and i tell you, i valued you jumping in and giving me that. it is important to see.

thanks for taking the time to spell it out salin.

[salin]

200. It was me.

Sadly, only because I have a brief respite from life (re: yea - vacation days) that I can spend time reading, and then thinking, with time to compose responses, on these issues which are personal, and personally important.

I am thankful for voices that have been willing to be engaged, in the times where I had so little time to read, and no time to gather thoughts and respond. It has been your voices that have changed the tenor of the discussions.

Far beyond DU (per the discussion of the media coverage of the rape by a billionaire scion) there has grown a social media viral awareness - that has started to change discussions far beyond du - that is stunning per the responses. IMO (perhaps overly hopeful) - the times, they are a changing (Per Bob Dylan).

Sometimes, when climbing a mountain, it is as valuable to look down per how much has been climbed, as it is towards looking at what still has to be climbed - for perspective. Not for excuses - but for motivation.

Thank you for expressing that my voice was encouraging. Not just once but twice. That is personally, meaningful.

[salin]

204. Feel free

to direct this "in context" to HOF.

Unfortunately my "break" ended today. So I probably won't be able to participate in the discussion. But if it might spur discussion - I applaud that it be a discussion starter.

Again I appreciate that you have kept discussions moving forward. I do ask that if you forward the first response (lengthy historic experience on DU), that you also include the second (per perspective and the climb up the mountain.) Thanks.

Regards,

salin

[BainsBane]

199. Interesting persepctive on things

Thanks for sharing.

[salin]

201. I am much less active than I used to be here,

and am greatly appreciative of you, and others, who give voice to this issue. Thank you.

[Number23]

179. I agree with you 100%. We see this type of thing over and over again when the issue of racism comes

up.

Suddenly, someone usually white and male, jumps in to decry the "diversion" of talking about race and to pronounce from up high that the only -ism that matters is class. Tone deaf, ignorant and smug all at the same time is a hell of a thing to see.

[salin]

193. and often the concern for "class" - is pretty limited

as well. Very myopic - but regardless of the myopic view - very comparatively dismissive of others.

[Vashta Nerada]

96. The stuff he said was despicable.

[Starry Messenger]

98. Never was a poster more deserving of joy at his being gone.

What an insect.

[William769]

102. I'm just going to savor the moment.

[BainsBane]

103. Let me guess

Homophobe too? I wouldn't be surprised, given everything else.

[William769]

105. I wouldn't go that far.

Just a spiteful person, just to be spiteful.

[BainsBane]

106. Gotcha.

[Ms. Toad]

117. Love the last post: "I have already told you, you are not going to get me to post something stupid."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4761673



Too late. Ya already did...and someone finally noticed.

[BainsBane]

118. The entire exhcange is disrtubring

That HOF should counsel women to get psychological help because it's a women's group, the implication being that women by nature exist is a state of psychological dysfunction.

The jurors who enabled him by allowing his posts to stand thought they were backing him up, but the effect was to further embolden him until he went so far he was kicked off the site. That might have been avoided if jurors had hidden some of his posts earlier on and stopped his relentless, misogynistic abuse of female members of this site.

[Ms. Toad]

119. Then we should thank the jurors -

And encourage them to do the same for a few more who shall remain nameless, but can be pretty easily identified by perusing a couple of recent threats...

[Sheldon Cooper]

123. Woohoo!

Good riddance to bad rubbish!

[Katashi_itto]

124. This is cool, I had him on ignore, always struck me as rather creepy

[Paladin]

136. Good riddance. Thanks, EarlG. (nt)

[sufrommich]

137. Here's another jury fail for that creep:

On Sun Mar 30, 2014, 05:53 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

You are not the only one on this thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4754097

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

This is an incredibly sexist,dismissive post.He starts by wanted advice to a rape victim,adding that they need to get help to "happy" and stop complaining and throws in an attack on HoF for good measure.Victim blaming and mansplaining to his hearts content.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sun Mar 30, 2014, 06:02 PM, and voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: To a considerable extent I agree with the alerter, however it also seems that this is a problem that is not going to go away without communication and education, and it's a painful process. Just hiding posts really doesn't get us any further. I don't want this to be viewed as justifying the DUer who was alerted on-- it's clear that his comments have offended several other DUers-- but since they were civil and non-confrontational, I think they should remain part of the record of feminist discourse on DU.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: GD ain't HOF, and nobody's going to hide a perfectly acceptable post because it "offends" the perpetually offended. Leave it.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you.


Note that juror # 4 thinks it's a "perfectly acceptable post".I'm glad he's gone,but there's more where he came from. I hope the admins are paying attention to who is letting this crap flourish here.

[seabeyond]

140. problem with juror 4 is we are talking about purposely be offensive to a woman raped and he has NO

empathy for the pain this woman experienced or may be experiencing with rc jabs. further, this poster seems to feel an excitement, uplifted, happy that another poster is purposely hurting people he does not like

isnt that a sociopath?

what does it say about the person that juror 4 is....

[Tuesday Afternoon]

145. definitely #4 shows a bend toward sadistic nature. Whether or not full blown sociopath can not

tell from that one remark ... need more data.

[Comrade Grumpy]

147. Wow. Pretty impressive diagnosis, Dr. Frist.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

148. it would be funnier if you had called me Dr. Fist. Happy April Fool's Day.

let me guess, you were juror #4?

[seabeyond]

149. ha hahahahahahahaha. so i jump back up to juror 4 comment to re read and ya....

i can hear it coming from grumpy. lol

so.

lol

aint..... word search and see how often used. cute. made me laugh.

now....

i have a house to clean. light some candles. turn up the music

TUESDAY

you

have a joyous day

[Tuesday Afternoon]

152. U2>sea

“So often, a visit to a bookshop has cheered me, and reminded me that there are good things in the world.”
― Vincent van Gogh, born March 30, 1853

[seabeyond]

154. Oh, woman. I love. I want that picture, right above my cushioned wood bench. Near the window.

Nestled in my little alcove, with the shelves of my books, waiting to be read or re read. Love the picture. Thanks tuesday

[Tuesday Afternoon]

155. That sounds perfectly lovely, sea. A nook for books.

Love Van Gogh ... one of my favorites.

[Comrade Grumpy]

172. Nope. n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

175. gotcha again !! Happy April Fool's Day !!

[Comrade Grumpy]

178. You, too. n/t

[LanternWaste]

180. Pretty difficult for the sub-literate to differentiate between a diagnosis and a presumption.

Must be pretty difficult for the sub-literate to differentiate between a diagnosis and a presumption. Good luck!!!

[seaglass]

141. Honestly this is why some misogynists remain on DU. I don't think RC had many hides on DU3 but he

was a known misogynist - based on the history of his posts. The people he targeted knew what he was about.

RC was enabled by jurors. I hope every juror who participated in the recent alerts and voted against hiding for some extremely LAME reason is ashamed.

Thanks Scootaloo for your very apt description of the enablers on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024762435#post34

[Bobbie Jo]

142. Juror #3

Geeeeeeze.

[sufrommich]

143. Yep,as long as you're "civil",anything goes.

I wonder if that jurist is OK with civil racist and homophobic comments?

[CreekDog]

153. Juror #3 fail...

thinks bigotry can be done politely.

[BainsBane]

159. Did you see this bit of genius?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4762594

[salin]

174. That has GOT to become a classic reference for DU

Nails the juror problems.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

144. But he was not the only person on that thread who has a history of posting

sexist (or at least clueless) comments about people who don't think the same way he does.

[alcibiades_mystery]

146. Don't know about that thread, but there's another serial abuser who should take note

RC was here since 2001. At some point, the misogyny can get even the most long-standing members shitcanned.

Enough 5-1 hides for misogyny and other folks can also be shown the door, too. I hope they take a lesson.

[BainsBane]

156. Happy

[Whisp]

160. Saved for these special occasions: Hallelujah

crank it up.

[PeaceNikki]

165. Near, far, wherever you are....

[dionysus]

171. wasn't a fan of that guy, myself...

[JI7]

181. he had issues with minorities also

a lot of his bs was the typical "white man being persecuted" crap.

[Whisp]

183. ooooooooo yah. How did he last so long?

he has been doing this for a long time, and getting away with it.

Jury system is not working if admin have to come in like this. He should have had hides enough to cover the entire year.

[scarletwoman]

188. I have no problem at all with your grave dancing, it appears to be well-deserved.

I saw your OP this morning while I was getting ready to leave for work, and didn't have time to chime in. I thought about it, though, and decided I would post on this thread after I got home.

I hope you won't take it the wrong way when I say it makes me sad in one respect - and ONLY in this one respect. I've been here since 2001, just as RC was. There don't seem to be very many of us very early DUers left posting here. So, to see a fellow-oldtimer bite the dust - well-deservedly, let me hasten to add! - I must admit I feel kind of bad about it.

Not because I was ever any kind of friend of RC's - the fact is, I rarely noticed him. I can't recall ever getting into any sort of discussion with him over all these years. He was just a familiar username, not much more than that.

I had, in fact, only recently been paying attention to some of his posts - and I only noticed them because they seemed so off when I read the discussions he'd been showing up in. I had been wondering wtf was the deal with him.

I'm not at all sorry that he was PPR'd - reading through the evidence here, it was righteous and richly deserved. I suppose my feelings are similar to those of family members of a convicted criminal - he was one of my cohort, an oldtimer, and so I can't help but regret that he broke bad.

He surely ought to have known better than that, after all this time.

[BainsBane]

210. That's understable

I've known him only through his treatment of me and some other women on this site, so my perspective is different, but I can understand how you'd feel differently. I think juries actually played a role in his PPR. Because they allowed his behavior to go unchecked, he grew increasingly emboldened and more abusive until the point administrators had to ban him. Some hides earlier on, even on Sunday, might have caused him to pull back. So the irony is the jurors who thought they were protecting him actually played a role in getting him banned.

[Kaleva]

189. I didn't know the guy or his history

Came to this thread to check out who got PPR'd. Most likely didn't know him because I didn't read the threads were he had made a name for himself over the years.

[Douglas Carpenter]

194. for those interested - here was the 3-3 Jury result

Automated Message

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message



On Sun Mar 30, 2014, 01:26 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

They would rather play the victim card, than get help.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4753977

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is beyond the pale, describing someone who was raped as "playing the victim card".

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 30, 2014, 01:34 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I actually agree that some of the feminist here go a bit too far. I'm not sure if I agree with the phrase, "rape culture." But describing someone who admits having been raped as, "playing the victim card", is way out of bounds - cruel and inhuman.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Folk apparently feel very free and emboldened to post any sexist thought that comes to mind ... counting on little or no consequence associated with posting this garbage.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[LeftyMom]

203. If jurors 1, 3, and 4 want to explain why they thought that was a reasonable thing to say to me

I'm willing to listen. They can even PM me and I'll keep their identities to myself.

But I really want to know WTF they were thinking.

[Matariki]

195. Amen

I was losing faith in this place reading that thread.

[Flying Squirrel]

207. I'll dance on that grave n/t

[Flying Squirrel]

208. I'll dance on that grave n/t

[seabeyond]

209. twice. nt