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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTesla is the new Hummer. Flying down the highway reading Drudge
Should anybody be surprised that the kind of self-absorbed people that will spend $100K for an electric status symbol would be avid Drudge readers?
http://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-s-owners-apparently-like-reading-drudge-rep-1557903720
But seriously, what the hell is anybody doing browsing websites when they should be concentrating on driving safely?
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MindMover
(5,016 posts)"The previously announced entry-level sedan, to be a 2015 model, is targeted for a price before incentives of about $30,000."
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1079186_tesla-will-sell-5-models-in-2016-small-suv-and-sports-car-added
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenkam/2014/04/04/why-tesla-is-the-apple-of-the-auto-industry-part-two/
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)are from DRUDGE. If that isn't cause for alarm, I don't know what is.
These are the new Hummer owners.
We will find that the idea that these are wealthy people is mostly bogus. I bet 90% of them had to finance or lease. If you can't pay $100,000 cash for your playthings, you aren't wealthy in my book. These are mostly status seekers, not independently wealthy people.
It is ridiculous that California would subsidize that kind of purchase. Even more astounding is that MORE THAN HALF the Tesla sales in March went to NORWAY, where they have a $130,000 tax incentive for a $100,000 car. Go figure.
There is little in this world more offensive than welfare for the affluent. The only think I can think of worse than that is welfare for the affluent, while acting like it is some great environmental cause.
MindMover
(5,016 posts)and related it to a hummer when tesla is selling a model for 30,000 ...
you also have stated some fringe statistic about pages hit while driving ...
which frankly, I could care less what the rich do while driving their Le Ferrari http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/dream-wheels-the-top-ten-most-expensive-cars-in-the-world/
You are outraged about welfare for the affluent but post something that looks like you are against Tesla .... ?
Are you in the dinosaur car business...?
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)An electric car that has a range of about 250 miles. That requires you to have a home where you can plug the thing up. What does someone like me, who lives in an apartment, has no place at all to plug up an electric car supposed to do?
And BTW, car dealers employ a LOT of people. They pay lots of taxes of all types. Where do all these people fit in Musk's worldview? Is Musk going to replace the taxes and wage lost by killing all the car dealerships? No he won't. He'll fall back on the old Libertarian bullshit of letting the market rule. The people at car dealerships are completely disposable.
I wish Progressive / Liberal people would get over this love affair with Tesla, and hatred of regular car dealerships, and realize that Tesla is a real danger to local jobs and communities. Musk doesn't give a fuck about anyone except those that can afford his toys.
And, no I am not in the "dinosaur car business" as you put it.
MindMover
(5,016 posts)and car dealers employ less and less people and more and more computers ...
my love affair is with a product that does not emit CO2 into my environment ...
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Because the electricity that it's batteries are charged with are produced with 'clean' coal.
Tesla's, despite cutting out gas, are still helping to put CO2 in the environment.
MindMover
(5,016 posts)and your remark that it is only clean coal is just BS ...
I can use a charging station that only uses renewable energy ....
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)The juice you would get from a PV skin on the car would barely keep up with the self-discharge from Tesla batteries -- which is a problem that a lot of people are complaining about.
MindMover
(5,016 posts)you might want to read some more about the latest technology ... on solar panels ....
and the skin I am talking about, nobody else is talking about ...
and there will always be complaints about technology and improvements can always be made ... even to my smartphone ...
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)It would take a solar panel the size of a football field to power a single supercharger, assuming a bright day.
You and Elon seem to know about some fantastic breakthroughs in physics that nobody else on the planet has learned about yet. I look forward to seeing all of these revealed to the rest of us in due course.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)I am having trouble figuring this out... everyone knows that electric cars have to get their electricity from a power plant, bam we win! Slam dunk! Right?
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)I am 100% in favor of as much wind and solar going into the grid as we can possibly do, and if Musk helps with some of that, good for him. But Musk has led a lot of people to believe that by putting a dinky, mostly symbolic solar panel on top of the supercharges that they will be self powered. That is world-class dishonesty of a world-class con man. If people here want to repeat such outrageous claims they shouldn't be surprised if more informed people bring the facts forward.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)Lancero
(3,003 posts)Doesn't mean in use.
You can use one, sure - But have you... you know... asked? You know, to find out if your charging station is powered by solar or wind energy?
Unless they have solar panels or a turbine built right next to em, they are hooked into a city's electrical grid. And what provides energy for most cities grids? Coal and nuclear power.
MindMover
(5,016 posts)
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Wikipedia should be easy enough for you to understand, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charging_station#Renewable_electricity_and_RE_charging_stations
First sentence - Charging stations are usually connected to the electrical grid, which often means that their electricity originates from fossil-fuel power stations or nuclear power plants.
People are pushing for stations to use renewable energy sources, but the majority in use right now are powered by non-renewable sources. This will change in the future but, as of now, electrical cars are still adding CO2 emissions.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)no nukes either.....
Lancero
(3,003 posts)And they wouldn't have changed that much. So hydro doesn't make up much of the US's power grid, and coal makes up a narrow majority of it.
nationalize the fed
(2,169 posts)It takes foreigners to innovate now, Americans are too busy building war machines. Can't even build their own bridges. Oh well at least someone is thinking ahead:
...The Honda Smart Home represents about 2,000 square feet, all of it optimized toward energy-efficient living. It's fitted with LED lighting, radiant heating and cooling, a massive geothermal recovery system, a large solar photovoltaic panel system, and even a grey-water filtering and recovery system...
...The garage may be the most interesting and exciting area of what is actually a fairly small and modest home. It contains both a standard 240-Volt Level 2 charging station and, more unusually, an actual DC charging outlet as well...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1091079_honda-opens-demonstration-smart-home-with-fit-ev-electric-car-in-garage
America can sure build drones though- and figure out how to wiretap the internet.
LTX
(1,020 posts)Honda U.S. is as much a Japanese company as Schlumberger U.S. is a French company. You may want to take a look at who those "foreigners" are.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"What does someone like me, who lives in an apartment, has no place at all to plug up an electric car supposed to do? "
My 35+ year old apartment complex recently installed three charging stations after three neighbors politely asked them about it last year. I suppose that's one thing... clever people could probably find many, many more solutions...
MADem
(135,425 posts)How do they bill the actual users?
enki23
(7,787 posts)And you could do what I do, and focus on the stupid shit the clueless rich Libertarians say and do, rather than on the parts I actually like and agree with.
penultimate
(1,110 posts)If only a few rich people can afford them and if they don't have any practical use for the commoners, then why would local dealerships be at risk?
DireStrike
(6,452 posts)Other than providing jobs.
Does it really improve society to have people walking around a car lot all day, trying to get people to buy the most expensive thing they can?
New technologies always kill jobs, and it is society's fault that the workers are forced to scrabble to eat rather than simply being freed from labor when their job is gone. Also, I'm sure there will be something else for salespeople to sell when the dealerships are dead.
Why, in a world where so much needs doing, can't we match people that need jobs, with jobs that actually are useful to society at large? That is the question here. Not whether a new technology or business model is going to hurt in the short term.
nationalize the fed
(2,169 posts)Elon Musk might look like John Delorean, without the cute wife.
An H bomb is about to drop on the entire auto industry:
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140327-hydrogen-cars-ready-for-roads
http://www.automotiveworld.com/news-releases/global-leaders-sign-31m-plan-demonstrate-viability-hydrogen-vehicles/
http://www.carsuk.net/hyundai-ix35-hydrogen-fcev-gets-thumbs-fleet-buyers/
Oh, and battery (only) powered cars lose up to half of their range in cold weather. That's not advertised often - or at all. Battery tech just isn't there yet and a half ton of lithium under the seats is going to turn out to be a bigger problem over time than imagined now.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)I think this is the thing that I find so disconcerting about the pro-Tesla crowd. I am not against electric cars. We actually had one when I was growing up. It was a 2-seater with 8 golf cart batteries. My dad drove it to work as long as it was warm out. Top speed was about 25 MPH, but he had a route that worked.
The reality is that batteries can only store so much energy. Even if we assume commercialization of the most optimistic scenarios, it will still be a crappy solution for a big part of the marketplace (people that have highly varied travel requirements and can't plan their lives around a recharge, work trucks, or anything larger.) But with steady advances, pure EVs can certainly be a solution for some part of the market.
If you really want to make an impact on carbon, you have to hit the other areas hard, and battery-only solutions are not viable in most of those. Over-the road trucks, for example, could never run on batteries, but they burn an enormous amount of fuel. By attacking that segment aggressively, we can make far more impact than we would get by putting several million EVs on the road. I find the recent Wal*Mart project with a hybridized Capstone turbine very interesting for that. That's a solution that could be deployed long before the first battery comes out of the giga factory. It won't eliminate carbon emissions altogether, but it can certainly run off natural gas, which would be a huge step forward in attacking our climate problem. And EVs don't eliminate carbon emissions either as long as we are generating our electricity with coal or gas.
Longer term, fuel cells could be viable all the way up to class-8 trucks -- and certainly could be a good solution for medium duty trucks. The source of hydrogen is an issue because most of it comes from fossil fuels today. But with an aggressive roll-out of wind and solar, we could generate as much hydrogen as we need through electrolysis.
Simply adopting hybrid systems on work trucks could make a huge impact -- especially if it is a serial, plug-in hybrid.
And another big development will be smaller vehicles like the Toyota i-Road. If a vehicle can be affordable enough, people could keep a small electric vehicle for everyday use and park the gas guzzler most of the time.
I just find nothing at all appealing about a $100,000 EV that takes money and attention away from all these other innovations that would have a much bigger benefit to society.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)innovation and creating a market where one previously didn't exist, or as you put it, "old libertarian bullshit".
...fact is, at one point the internal combustion engine was the innovation. Lots of vendors of carriage wheels, horse supplies, buggy whips, etc. were put out of business. Sorry, but you're putting forth a pretty silly argument. If Tesla's business model is better and the product is superior, they'll win.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)At least 75% of them are going out with the 85 kWh battery packs.
I am not in the car business today. I have been in the past. I don't have any positions on TSLA stock today. I have been short recently.
But I am just calling the gentle readers' attention to the fact that Tesla is the embodiment of welfare for billionaire owners and affluent customers. And that attracts a quality of customer that makes Drudge report the web page that is pulled up 10% of the time while they are barreling down the highway. More frequently than the weather. More frequently than sports scores. more frequently than just about anything but stock prices. That is who the Tesla owner is. The entitlement crowd. That is why their stores are mostly right beside the Brooks Brothers and Abercrombie & Fitch stores.
idendoit
(505 posts)Check out the Government Pension Fund of Norway (Oljefondet) value as of Dec. 2013; $898 billion all North Sea oil revenue, it belongs to the people of Norway. Where is my off shore oil revenue check and Tesla subsidy? Go figure.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Last edited Sat Apr 5, 2014, 12:48 AM - Edit history (1)
get a big government check every year from those oil revenues. How come the rest of us don't get a check back from the government for all the oil and minerals that are harvested off Federal land?
idendoit
(505 posts)The oil companies are making money hand over fist. We are being overcharged for our own non-renewables. Why aren't we part of the revenue stream? Why no windfall taxes anymore?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)But you will end up taking a loss because the cost of living up here is so high. 
idendoit
(505 posts)The Norwegians make sure they get their proper cut, why shouldn't Americans.
jmowreader
(50,554 posts)If you've got five to ten million buried in a trust fund earning 12 percent, pulling $100,000 out of it to buy a car is going to cost you more than financing at a low rate.
Desert805
(392 posts)BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)jmowreader
(50,554 posts)LTX
(1,020 posts)And what are they investing in? Over the past year, anybody with a pulse could have made a rather hefty return in the stock market, but that ship has hit terminal velocity, and will inevitably be reset over the next few years. In the meantime, T-Bills, bonds, and any interest only investment is in the .5 to 2 percent range.
Maybe those 12 to 20 percent "hedge funds" are running guns.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Hedge funds don't necessarily create larger returns. The main point of hedging is to reduce risks (hence the name "hedging"
. They typically use a lot of options to protect their stock positions if the market moves differently than they expect.
But all of that is beside the point. I take your point that a really rich person might CHOOSE not to pay cash for a variety of reasons. Three may be a tax advantage for leasing if they write it off as a corporate expense, for example, or they may not want to be bothered by keeping the asset on the books.
So let me restate my point. A rich person COULD pay cash for a Tesla if they chose to. I bet the profile of the average Tesla buyer is that a small percentage of them have 100 grand readily available. I bet the profile is more like upper income earners whose lifestyles consume most of that income. I'm just saying this is a completely different economic profile from the Bentley buyer, I would guess.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)to buy with cash than pay the full price with interest.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)They will buy and sell them and make a dollar off the people.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)CA is pulling back on their credits because they are finding that, in practice, the Teslas don't actually meet the objectives of that credit program. I'm not saying that Tesla did anything illegal. They just found ways to game the system and got hundreds of millions of dollars as a result. But CA is shutting down that game, or at least drawing it in a bit.
As a matter of public policy, I don't think it is a good use of taxpayer dollars to subsidize luxury cars that go to the top 1%. I am much more in favor of that money supporting products like the Leaf and Volt and the efforts to commercialize fuel cells for products that would be affordable by those same taxpayers.
In other words, the 1% already don't pay their fair share of taxes. If the 99% are underwriting technology development, it ought to be for products that will benefit the 99%.
Baclava
(12,047 posts)Tesla Motors is planning to unveil a new electric car in early 2015, which could sell for around $40,000. According to reports, the more mainstream offering could be key to the automaker’s future growth.
Currently, Tesla’s only offering is the Model S, a premium sport sedan that starts at $71,070 before any state or federal tax incentives – that price can increase steeply with additional options and add-ons.
The Palo Alto automaker also plans to release the long-awaited Model X sport utility vehicle in late 2014, although that is expected to sell in the same price range.
Tesla announced on Friday that the third, lower priced model (possibly the Model E) could make its official debut at the 2015 North American International Auto Show in Detroit.
It would begin selling in 2016 or 2017
http://www.businessreviewusa.com/business_leaders/tesla-plans-to-debut-a-cheaper-model-e-in-2015
MindMover
(5,016 posts)"Tesla announced on Friday that the third, lower priced model (possibly the Model E) could make its official debut at the 2015 North American International Auto Show in Detroit."
Baclava
(12,047 posts)Entry-level 2016 Tesla Model E Gets Rendered, Looks Good
It’s at least two years away, but there’s already rampant speculation about the whys, whats, and hows of Tesla’s “entry-level” Model E sedan.
http://gas2.org/2014/03/09/2016-tesla-model-e-rendered/
MindMover
(5,016 posts)BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)They haven't provided any pricing. The model that supposedly would be more like the mainstream market (i.e. $35-40K) is not until AFTER the taxpayers of some state build Musk his new factory for free. In other words, it will still be the same pretentious, status-seeking, Drudge-reading dicks buying these things at least through 2016.
MindMover
(5,016 posts)Personally, I think you have a stake in the dinosaur industry someplace ....
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)but Musk is sucking the oxygen out of the place with all of his empty promises and ridiculous claims.
MindMover
(5,016 posts)
underpants
(182,769 posts)And only if it is really GOOD Pinterest porn
Marr
(20,317 posts)somewhere along the chain, the browser's default homepage was set to Drudge, or they're getting ads that redirect to Drudge, or something along those lines.
Ten percent of page views from any crowd but CPAC going to Drudge is so bizarre that it has to be an anomaly of some kind.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)The only thing shipping today is the S model. Most of them are going out with the 85 kWh battery packs which consists of 7000 toothbrush batteries hooked together. The weight of the battery pack alone is 1200 pounds.
Musk talks about the E car, and claims that this would be affordable by non-dicks, non-pretentious, non-status-seekers, non-Drudge-reading regular people. But that is based on absolutely nothing. That depends on a big step increase in battery cost and energy density that has never happened so fast since mankind started making batteries. It depends on a giga factory that has no investors. Tesla offers to put up $2 Bn, and would require a partner to put up $3 Bn. The obvious partner would be Panasonic, which supplies the toothbrush batteries to Musk today. But Panasonic is balking because they don't believe that toothbrush batteries will be the winning package during the life of this giga factory. So that whole deal is in trouble -- or at least not nailed down at this point.
Meanwhile there is the X car, which is essentially the current S with the current S economics but an AWD system and a higher "crossover" body. That is getting loads of deposits to build a nice backlog, but they won't deliver that vehicle for a year or so, Meanwhile, they have basically a zero backlog heading into April because the California sales peaked last August and they are getting virtually no sales from Europe other than Norway, which has a ridiculous subsidy that is also going away. They will make their forecast for the first quarter shipments, but that came at the expense of eating most of the S backlog. So they could have three very difficult quarters ahead.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Why should anyone care what websites Tesla owners are browsing on the road?
Is this supposed to make me dislike Tesla or choose not to buy their cars? Because I can honestly say that it would be the farthest thing from my mind when buying a car.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)(like news and stocks) is one of the farthest right-wing websites there is. And to get 10% of the hits to that site means that must characterize a high percentage of Tesla buyers. IMHO, this is not something to celebrate. We shouldn't be handing over loads of taxpayer money to a company that is catering to the 1% or the 1% wannabes.
Desert805
(392 posts)Sorry, but it's only a few shades off huffingtonpost, really. The bias is so clear though, that it's a one stop, non UN INVASION IMMINENT!!1 site to keep tabs on what's going on around the real world republican water cooler.
Unless you work around that water cooler in real life. I don't.
There's folks on here who monitor Free Republic. Fuck that. I'll check drudge once or twice a week, and I've got my fill, sans the "nazi Kenyan socialist from mars did 9/11" claims.
REP
(21,691 posts)If that statistic about Tesla drivers is correct (and the Teslas I see on the road are being driven by people who are driving, not reading), how do we know why they're reading what they're reading? There's a metric shit ton of Teslas in my neighborhood, and I can tell you they're not fond of Republicants at all.
idendoit
(505 posts)Who is Quantcast and how do they know what Tesla drivers are reading? Are people forced to use the Tesla browser?
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)
NBachers
(17,103 posts)But remember- Leave your blood at the Red Cross, not on the highway . . .
MerryBlooms
(11,767 posts)I only have three fucks left and it's the weekend.
Sorry.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)
rustydog
(9,186 posts)It will revolutionize the automobile industry as we know it today. Why else are the big auto dealers begging states to outlaw Teslas way of selling direct to you instead of through dealerships? They are scared of an excellent product and idea. One THEY did not think of or erroneously dismissed.
One day you'll be able to drive across America in a Tesla without stopping to charge because Tesla is building replacement stations where you pull in they raise your car and lower it onto a fully-charged chassis in minutes, not having to wait for 12-hr charging.....pretty big deal. and one day soon there will be "affordable" Teslas you and I can buy.
We have a 21st century Henry Ford and it is awesome!
raven mad
(4,940 posts)The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.
Nikola Tesla
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/n/nikolatesl393047.html