Should making a jackass of oneself on one occasion wreck someone's career forever?

[Douglas Carpenter]

Last edited Fri Apr 4, 2014, 08:41 PM - Edit history (1)

A world without redemption

I happen to live in a place where a lot of merchant marines pass through the area. There is a bar I sometime frequent popular with the general expat and merchant marine crowd who come ashore for a bit of relaxation and recreation. Just last night one fellow got himself drunk and started to get obnoxious and belligerent - as is not too uncommon on a Friday night in bars anywhere. After being asked a few times to cool it - he was finally asked to leave and then point blank told to leave. Being in a drunk and rowdy state he refused to leave and started to make a scene that disturbed the whole bar. So, naturally the bar manager called the police who quickly came and hauled this obnoxious character off to the local jail. Then interestingly I got in a conversation with one of his shipmates who told me that now the way things are - once the captain of his ship gets wind of this he will be fired within the next few days and sent home. Then on top of all of that - this one occasion will certainly result in him losing his merchant marine clearance and he will never, never, never work on any ships ever again. The fellow telling me this said that it was not always this way. But this is part of the post September 11 world.

I'm all for throwing the guy out of the bar. I'm all for banning him from that and any and all other bars in town. I'm all for throwing him in jail over night or perhaps even a few nights. I'm all for his employer coming down hard on him. If he makes a habit of this sort of thing - I wouldn't fault them too much for firing him. But should one embarrassing night wreck someone's career forever? Now the world of merchant marines is largely protected by a couple of major and very powerful unions. But the unions are powerless when it comes to protecting someone who gets in trouble with the outside local law.

I guess I see this as part of a bigger problem of our brave new world. Even a few decades ago it was possible for someone to get themselves in a whole bunch of trouble - perhaps even a serious crime - But after the person paid whatever penalty for their offense - they could move to a new town - perhaps in a different state and start life all over again. Short of receiving a life in prison without chance of parole sentence - there was almost always a possibility of redemption - a possibility to start over - to forget and bury the past. This new computerized world we live in now creates a permanent record of every debt, every blemish - perhaps every job that didn't work out quite right. And in a world that simply has a lot more people than it has good paying jobs for people - the possibility of permanently wrecking one's chances in life are so much greater than they were before. The possibility of recognizing one's foolish errors and starting life anew in a new job, a new home and new attitude are so much less. Are we creating a world without the possibility of redemption?

[upaloopa]

1. I don't know about his job but there are many to take

the place of those who screw up.
Maybe some employers just have a lower tolerance because of it.

[NCTraveler]

2. Thoughtful op.

The thought behind it is my main thought behind the decriminalization of marijuana. These charges stick around ones neck forever. It is often used against them. Specially if they have a previous marijuana arrest, the second one can become damming and lead to time in jail for those without money. People need second, third, fourth, fifth, and so on chances. We all(should leave a little wiggle room with that absolute) have the opportunity for a fresh start after a mistake at minimum, and redemption if wanted. This crap where shit small shit follows people for their whole lives, changing positive direction in their lives, needs to stop.

[Blue_Tires]

3. Harsh of him to potentially lose his job

but I'm guessing he knows the rules, assumed the risk and has to live with his choice...

If he's one of those "likes to fight" type of drunks, maybe a bar full of people who know him and his superiors isn't the best place to wind down while in port...

[Douglas Carpenter]

4. but forever?

This got me thinking about the whole situation where records follow people permanently. Paying a price for one's offenses has always been the case. It has not always been the case that people can so easily be denied the ability to start over.

[Blue_Tires]

8. Like I said, it was harsh

but people have been blackballed out of their entire industries for a lot less than getting arrested for public drunkenness plus whatever else he may have gotten charged with (misdemeanor assault? battery?)...I've seen one temporary lapse in judgment end the careers of people working for airlines, public school systems, civilian employees working for the military, local TV networks, etc...

Assuming he is isn't a repeat offender and a good employee, why can't his union fight for him??

[Douglas Carpenter]

9. I understand it would be a matter of losing his Coast Guard credential - something that would not

have not always been the case - at least a permanent loss over one single incident - but I'm told - it became the case post September 11. Without the Coast Guard credential he cannot work on the ships and the unions cannot do anything about it.

[Major Nikon]

5. Unions are not powerless when it comes to conditions of employment

If this guy loses some government credential required for the job, then the union would be powerless, but so would the employer.

I'm suspicious of the claim this guy would loose his Coast Guard credentials. Here's the law which covers this:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/7703

Getting arrested for being drunk at a bar doesn't seem to be covered. Even airline pilots wouldn't lose their ATP certificate for something like this.

[Auntie Bush]

6. It's hard to believe that if one gets drunk and unruly

he should lose what the poster suggested. That's a bit harsh! How many military get drunk and disorderly? We'd lose thousands of soldiers!

[Major Nikon]

12. I find it hard to believe also

But this is not exactly the same situation as a typical member of the military. These guys are out to sea, largely unsupervised, and have a high level of responsibility for the safety of people and property. People in the military that have similar levels of responsibility are drummed out of the service all the time for very minor offenses (not saying this always happens when it should).

[Separation]

13. 2

If you get two alcohol incidents or situations you are out. Alcohol incident means you were drinking and got into trouble, DUI, fighting, showing up to work with alcohol on your breath.

A situation means you weren't necessarily drinking but around alcohol when whatever happened. i.e. You are out with friends who happen to be underage you will get an alcohol incident even if you weren't drinking.

Its always been that way for as long as I can remember for aviation, but since 2000 or so it started applying to everyone.

On some naval and Marine bases they have installed breathalyzers in the workplace. They are cracking down on drinking.

[oldandhappy]

7. I have not done this,

and I would say I have not been a jackass, but I have definitely done some dumb things. I think the guy should stay in the clink over night and be given a pass.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

10. A grossly idealised view of the past, I think.

Anyone read/seen Les Miserables?

[Douglas Carpenter]

11. life was certainly not ideal in the past- but it was certainly far more possible to make a new start

before records followed everyone for their whole life in this computerized and interconnected world we live in now. Within my own life time that aspect has dramatically changed for the worse.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. If "making as ass of oneself" is a reason for career death, politicians are an endangered species.

Now, the man on the stand he wants my vote,
He's a-runnin' for office on the ballot note.
He's out there preachin' in front of the steeple,
Tellin' me he loves all kinds-a people.
(He's eatin' bagels
He's eatin' pizza
He's eatin' chitlins
He's eatin' bullshit!

Bob Dylan

[Godhumor]

15. It depends on his union what will ultimately happen

The company that operates the boat will certainly fire him from working in its fleet again if he shows back up to the boat drunk or misses leaving port all together. If the union services many companies they may allow him to maintain his membership and look for postings elsewhere.

[Douglas Carpenter]

16. as it was explained to me - The Coast Guard will permanently pull his credential - this is a

post September 11 - Zero tolerance policy. Without the credential - neither the union or even the employer can do anything about it.

[Godhumor]

17. Not exactly. This is a "miss the boat" situation

If he is drunk and on vessel within 4 hours of standing a watch, it is reportable to the Coast Guard. Even then, there would be an investigation and attending AA would stave off a loss of MMC.

Most companies will not let a drunk mariner onboard, instead electing to, for all intensive purposes, "fire" him or her right there (He missed the boat). As it is only reportable on vessel, this would not be reported to the Coast Guard.

[hunter]

18. Core problem is that "living wage" jobs ought to be easy to obtain...

...even for rougher characters.

But those jobs are gone.

Why would anyone hire a rough character when the job market is flooded with squeaky clean desperate younger people who will work for less-than-living-wages or tolerate abuse without complaint?

My family genealogy has some dead ends. I'm pretty sure the "dead ends" ended up in America because Europe wasn't working out for them. They could escape the law or conscription and "start over again" in the North American West.