For men who think an ex-girlfriend might be pregnant

[pnwmom]

and who might want to claim paternity, here's a list of state "Putative Father Registries" and their deadlines. (You can also register if you simply had a sexual relationship and don't know if your GF could be pregnant or not.)

Being on this list ensures you will be notified of any adoption proceedings. You would still need to establish your paternity through DNA tests, and individual states will have other requirements, but being on this list should prevent an adoption from proceeding without giving you a chance to respond.

http://www.1800adoption.com/pregnant/birth-father/list-of-state-putative-father-registries-and-deadlines

[Habibi]

1. Interesting--had no idea this (these) existed.

[Bonobo]

2. Or you could tell women that father's have rights too

And to not give away their children without asking them first.

Reminds me a bit of the "don't tell us how not to be raped, tell men not to rape" thing.

[CFLDem]

3. Uh huh

Tell us more...

[nomorenomore08]

4. Not a bad idea in theory. But the woman still has the final say no matter what.

After all, she's the one who has to carry the damn thing around for 9 months (assuming she carries to term).

[Bonobo]

5. No she doesn't.

Final say in whether or not to give the baby away? No. She does not.

[nomorenomore08]

9. What do you mean? Should the man be able to legally or physically stop her if he disagrees

with her choice?

[newcriminal]

12. Yes, he has rights to his child just as much as she does.

[Bonobo]

13. The fact that this is not obvious or well understood

Is very sad indeed.

[nomorenomore08]

25. Okay, if she's carrying to term either way and it's simply a matter of choosing adoption or not

then the man does have parental rights. Hence why, as another poster noted, most legit adoption agencies require the signature of both biological parents if at all possible.

I was thinking more in terms of "keeping it" vs. abortion, in which case the man certainly does not and should not have the right to veto the woman's decision. Even if ideally she should consult with him about it, that's not legally binding.

[newcriminal]

30. I know you were looking for a fight instead of actually reading what was posted.

[nomorenomore08]

39. Not looking for a fight. But jumping the gun and making assumptions when I shouldn't have

almost amounts to the same thing, I guess. My mistake.

[LittleBlue]

14. He can and he should

Both the biological mother and father have parental rights, and they can't be surrendered unless they both sign them away. That's why most adoption agencies, if they aren't shady, want signatures from both parents signing away their legal parental rights before proceeding with adoption. Anything short of that can end the adoptive parents in court with the biological father.

I'm honestly flabbergasted to hear that people think both biological parents shouldn't have rights. Babies are not slave-like possessions of the biological mother.

[Bonobo]

17. Flabbergasted indeed.

A peek at the other side of male privilege. Yes, there are male privileges and yes, there are male lack of privileges as well. Saying so does not make one crazy or misogynistic.

[nomorenomore08]

20. Specifically dealing with adoption, I see your point. So long as we're restricting it to that

then I can agree. But this is a different issue than the man controlling whether or not the woman carries to term, which would not be acceptable under any circumstances.

So yes, adoption agencies should have the consent of both biological parents.

[Bonobo]

23. The OP is about adoption. nt

[nomorenomore08]

34. I get that. My posts kind of slid into a different discussion that other posters weren't having.

That's what I get for jumping to conclusions and not thinking things through. Mea culpa.

[pnwmom]

21. We're not talking about abortion here. We're talking about adoption.

And all 50 states give biological fathers a legal say in an adoption. The decision is not up to the mother alone once the baby is born. If there is a dispute between the parents, then there will be a legal proceeding -- the mother can't simply overrule the father.

[nomorenomore08]

35. Got that. I made a mistake in this thread and I've accepted responsibility for it. n/t

[CFLDem]

6. Do tell

[Boom Sound 416]

7. The damn thing?

Classy

[nomorenomore08]

8. Sorry, I'm not a sentimental person. Didn't particularly mean to offend anyone. n/t

[CFLDem]

10. Ya I took a double take on that one, too.

I thought once it's out it becomes people.

Did I miss the memo?

[Boom Sound 416]

11. One can believe in a woman's right to choose

Without reducing the fetus to a 'damn thing'.

And that's not sentiment.

Oh, and agreed.

[Bonobo]

15. Do you think the decision to give a baby up for adoption should

Be solely the mother's?

[Boom Sound 416]

24. Short answer, no

If I understand the OP and your question correctly.

If the mother delivers and chooses to give up the baby, common sense (to solely me) would give the father first right of refusal. The baby is born, so the father should be able to waive his rights himself.

Therefore, baby born: mother waives rights, father takes custody. What's the legal challenge?

I think that's what I think.

[nomorenomore08]

36. "Mother waives rights, father takes custody." Sounds about right, unless there's specific reason

to believe the father an unfit parent. I wasn't thinking very carefully with my earlier post, I admit. And my choice of words was kind of insensitive too.

[Boom Sound 416]

38. ...

[nomorenomore08]

40. Back atcha. These things happen.

[Boom Sound 416]

43. Indeed they do.

[Boom Sound 416]

41. Can't know if the father is unfit yet

Unless, yes he's a meth dealing blah blah blah, but for the most part if he's not in jail or house arrest, then what could make him unfit. Perhaps drug or voilence rehab, but those are after the fact circumstances.

Can't go on mother's word, because she might be a crackpot. Kinda have to have faith and be ready to step in if need be like for those parents who chooses to keep their children.

[nomorenomore08]

47. Agreed. Unless he's a known criminal or drug addict I see no reason why he shouldn't have custody

of the kid if the mother chooses to give it up.

[pnwmom]

67. In some states, even fathers in prison for decades

can withhold their consent and prevent an adoption . . . which doesn't seem right to me.

In Ohio, no law would have prevented Castro, the man who kidnapped those three women for ten years, from getting custody of the 6 year old, even while in prison. Fortunately, the judge could make the ruling.

[Brigid]

52. I've heard worse.

I've actually seen babies referred to as "crotch droppings." Here on DU.

[YarnAddict]

70. "Damn thing????????"

Call it an embryo, a fetus, whatever, but it is NOT a "damn thing!"

[pnwmom]

16. Do you have a problem with informing potential fathers of these registries?

These registries exist in order to help make sure men are notified of any pregnancy they might have an interest in. And they don't cost anything and don't require the assistance of an attorney. (Although an attorney would probably be needed if a father decided to take the next step and seek custody.)

[Bonobo]

18. Absolutely not (and that question further strengthens the analogy)

I actually do NOT think that you giving that info is in any way blaming men for NOT having usedne registry. It is good nformation and not victim blaming.

[pnwmom]

22. I would want my sons to know about it if they were ever in this position.

And many men probably are.

[LittleBlue]

32. I wasn't aware that such a registry existed

Thanks for the info

[CFLDem]

19. In your opinion

1)How popular should the choice to register be?

2)How popular do you think it will be?

[pnwmom]

26. I have no idea. I'm guessing though, that most men don't know about it.

And it would be better if they did, because babies are better off. If a father wants to claim a child, the sooner his interest in a pregnancy can be established, the better-- both for him and the baby.

[Bonobo]

27. I did not know of such a thing. nt

[pnwmom]

29. I'm guessing it's not widely known because several otherwise very well-informed

DUers didn't know (in another thread).

Unfortunately, it might be one of those things that some people only find out about when it's too late.

[Crunchy Frog]

28. You could do both.

[pnwmom]

31. Do both what? n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

37. Let men know about the registry, and

Discourage women from putting children up for adoption without letting the fathers know about it.

The poster's reference to rape was entirely gratuitous IMHO.

[nomorenomore08]

46. He had a valid point that didn't need the strained analogy. I agree. n/t

[pnwmom]

68. Since 95% of adoptions these days are either fully open (55%)

or mediated through an agency (birth and adoptive parents keep in contact through a mediator) (40%) I doubt that it happens very often.

The main exception is when a birth mom has had a one-night stand and doesn't know who the father was. Then all that usually is done is posting legal notices. Otherwise, if the father is known, the agency has to contact him and let him know about a planned adoption, so he has a chance to claim paternity if that's what he wants to do.

[Texasgal]

33. What about in the case of rape?

Did I miss that in the registry?

[pnwmom]

42. Interesting question. It turns out that in 31 states, rapists may have paternal rights.

Which doesn't seem quite right . . . .

Remember the case of the Ohio man, Ariel Castro, who had imprisoned three women and impregnated one?

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/01/us/rapist-child-custody/

(CNN) -- When an Ohio judge denied a request for Cleveland kidnapping suspect Ariel Castro to visit the 6-year-old girl he fathered with one of the women he kidnapped and raped, the reason seemed pretty clear cut.

"I just think that would be inappropriate," Cuyahoga County Judge Michael Russo said last month.

The idea that Castro -- who will be sentenced Thursday after pleading guilty to 937 counts -- would have any parental rights is hard to believe. But in 31 states, rapists do enjoy the rights of a father.

Ohio currently has no laws that would take away Castro's parental rights for fathering the child with Amanda Berry, who he abducted in 2003 when she was a teenager.

SNIP

[Texasgal]

45. Gotcha.

Too bad there is not one big blanket law that covers that especially since it is such a big issue.

[Ohio Joe]

44. Weird that these fathers don't care about their kids until they go up for adoption...

Why are they not paying enough attention to establish paternity before this and financially support their kids?

'Hey, just let me know if the kid goes up for adoption so I can muck it up... Otherwise, let her worry about it'

Yay MRA's!

[Texasgal]

48. My nephew was abandoned by his father

he was serving 30 years in prison for a violent crime when my brother and my nephews mother married. He wanted to adopt him into the family and was fought with tooth and nail by the biological father while he was in jail.

A judge finally agreed and allowed the adoption to my brother happen, but it took years of legal wrangling and lots of money. My nephew is now 20 years old and very successful. His biological dad was released from prison only to be convicted of another crime and is currently in jail again.

Never paid child support, never sent a card or letter for a b-day or any other holiday. He was not there for the birth of his son. Never did shit, but was allowed to fight for several years from behind bars. Causing much headache for my brother and his family. It sucked.

[newcriminal]

49. Who said the father doesn't care?

The father has no right to the mother or her belly during the pregnancy. If she wants nothing to do with him there is nothing he can do. He can not force a paternity test until after the baby is born.

[Ohio Joe]

56. A father can declare paternity before birth

Why not do so if you believe you caused the pregnancy?

[newcriminal]

59. He can declare all he wants.

He still has no rights until the baby is born, and if the mother chooses he will have nothing to do with the pregnancy. He can only wait until the baby is born and then take her to court to establish paternity. Even if he wanted a paternity test before birth, no court has the right to force the mother to have one done.

[Ohio Joe]

60. "He still has no rights until the baby is born" - Nor should he

Once he declares paternity (and I speak of the legal process, not just saying it), I'm pretty sure he would be able to take custody before adoption could be done without his consent. At the very least he is standing up and taking responsibility... Should he not do so if he cares so much?

[newcriminal]

63. No, actually legally speaking.

He should wait until the baby is born and file for a paternity test. Once the mother has decided she doesn't want the child it is easier for the father to get custody than to fight the mother before.

[Ohio Joe]

64. One need not fight for custody to declare paternity...

The two do not have to go hand in hand, it is simply acknowledging you are the father.

[Shrike47]

51. You can't establish paternity until birth. You can register before birth.

[Ohio Joe]

57. Yes, you can

We have the means to determine paternity. Even if the woman is unwilling to take a test, one can file a declaration of paternity.

[pnwmom]

65. You can file a declaration of paternity, but until a baby's DNA can be checked,

that wouldn't prove paternity.

[Ohio Joe]

66. As best I know, if you do, you accept all rights and responsibilities...

Here is one from MO:

What else do I need to know about voluntarily acknowledging paternity?
You are accepting the rights and responsi
bilities that come with raising a child
when you voluntarily acknowledge paternity. Those rights and responsibilities
include the following:

Both parents have a right to frequent, significant and meaningful
contact with the child as they both agree or as ordered by a court.

Both parents have a right to notice and a hearing regarding the
termination of their parental rights and/or the adoption of the child.

Both parents have the responsibility to support the child and comply
with an order for child support

http://www.courts.mo.gov/file.jsp?id=48008

That was the first one that came up in the google... I would assume it is similar in most states though I suppose there could be some that you may still not have rights.

[The Straight Story]

53. Well, since men have no right to know if a women is pregnant, and she decides

on the fate of it pre-birth, it might come as no surprise that you come across situations where people have sex, break up (or one night stands), and never know until the baby is born.

Women control all the rights until a child is born - once it is born the child itself then has rights of it's own which cannot be simply taken away (such as life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, having the father being notified since it took both to create the life, etc).

[Texasgal]

54. Even to victims of rape

which is disgusting!

[Ohio Joe]

58. One can always file a declaration of paternity

You don't need anything from the woman to do so.

[The Straight Story]

61. If you know about the pregnancy at all

that would be the way to go.

[pnwmom]

62. That is not actually true. If a man signs up on one of these registries, he has to be given notice

of legal proceedings regarding any pregnancy he MIGHT be involved in.

And if a woman is working with an agency, they are supposed to contact any putative father the mother has named, whether or not he's on a registry.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/adoption-and-fathers-rights.html

Does the Biological Father Have Rights in an Adoption Proceeding?

A birth father has a Constitutional right to be notified that he might be the father of a child who is being put up for adoption. He also has the right to be heard in court if he believes the adoption should not go forward.

If the father is not known, or the whereabouts of the father is unknown, many states require that some sort of notice be published in the legal advertising section of the newspaper, informing all persons claiming to be the biological father of the pending adoption.

[DustyJoe]

50. interesting

If this registry would also be used to identify wham-bam-thank you maam-goodbye deadbeats that impregnate and run in order to force child support from these multi-horndog daddies. Then this registry could serve both sides of the problem.

[pnwmom]

55. Related to your point, I just found this:

https://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/putative.pdf

Acknowledgment of paternity or registration with a putative father registry ensures certain rights for an unmarried father, such as the right to receive notice of court proceedings regarding the child, petitions for adoption, and actions to terminate parental rights. In 10 States with putative father registries, filing with the registry is the sole means for establishing this right of notice. An acknowledged father may also seek visitation with his child and usually will be required to provide financial support to the child.

[Separation]

69. Thank you for this.

This is very personal for me. My mom had me when she was 16. My biological father knew about me and wanted me. My mother moved, placed an add in the paper for notice of adoption and I was adopted by another man.

It took me 21 years to find my biological father. But it's funny, we walk the same, both play guitar, both served in the military in aviation.

He tried looking for us but when my mother married she took his last name and back then there was no Internet.

IMO this is a good thing, unless the child is from rape, incest, or an abusive relationship.

[pnwmom]

71. My cousins were also adopted, by a stepfather, after a notice in the paper.

It might be the only option in some cases, but other people abuse this by pretending not to know even the state or city of the father.

[Nine]

72. I know this won't be a popular view...

...but I think our current system skews too far toward the rights of unmarried, biological fathers.

Here's how they do it in the UK...

A mother automatically has parental responsibility for her child from birth.

A father usually has parental responsibility if he’s:

married to the child’s mother
listed on the birth certificate (after a certain date, depending on which part of the UK the child was born in)

You can apply for parental responsibility if you don’t automatically have it.

https://www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities/who-has-parental-responsibility

You can argue that a pregnant woman has a moral responsibility to inform the biological father of his paternity, but practically speaking, where a child is being adopted, it's not always possible to find the father. Adoptive parents (as well as the fate of the child) are at the mercy of whatever information the biological mother knows or chooses to share. The burden should be on biological fathers to know whether they have impregnated a woman they've been with. The burden should not be on prospective adoptive parents to prove a negative - that there is not a man anywhere in the world who could be the father of this child and who might want to reclaim the child at some later date.

Men and women should have equal rights as far as biology allows. A man does not have equal rights to decide whether a pregnancy is terminated because biology does not allow the man to carry that pregnancy (unless we're talking about frozen embryos where a man could take custody of the embryos under some legal circumstances and have a surrogate carry the embryos to term).

You take certain risks in life. If you are man who has unprotected sex (including cases where the man tries to be responsible but the condom breaks), you risk that you may create a pregnancy that will be terminated against your wishes, that you will create a pregnancy that may be endangered by unhealthful choices on the part of the mother, that you may create a pregnancy that is carried to term, which will then obligate you to pay child support. I also think you risk that you may create a pregnancy that is carried to term, that you may not know about, and where the child may be put up for adoption. A woman, of course, risks that she may become pregnant - a significant condition that can even lead to death in some cases.

It simply isn't feasible to allow unmarried, biological fathers to come back months after the birth and start asking for custody. It undermines the whole institute of adoption. Every time you have one of these cases where adoptions are disputed for years, it's because of a biological father who came back after the adoptive parents had already bonded with the child.