The Democratic party is in danger of being painted as pro-authoritarian and

[Harmony Blue]

the "establishment" which will be a big obstacle to overcome for the midterms if that is the case. I hope Democratic leadership is taking the recent events as well as the NSA/torture probes very seriously IMO. Historically in American politics the party that is deemed the establishment and pro-authoritarian tends to lose elections which has been the case for most of the Republic's history.

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. Um no....that is only in Democratic Underground...

[alcibiades_mystery]

2. That's absurd! Harmony Blue is an expert, professional political analyst

How dare you!

[Cali_Democrat]

11. DU is a bubble

Poll after poll says the economy is the top issue. The NSA issue doesn't even get 1%.

On DU, many think NSA/torture are the top issues.

Another example of how DU is a bubble.

[Tarheel_Dem]

26. That's why GG's back in the USA. Cuz nobody really gives a shit about NSA, except

a certain faction of DU, and their friends from the dailypaul.com. GG has to rev up as much interest as he can before the book launch, ya know.

[Mojorabbit]

31. It would be really nice

If you could come up with something more original than the lame libertarian/Paul insults It is getting really old and contributes absolutely nothing to the conversation. This used to he a place where thoughtful conversation was common about issues and this kind of thing is just juvenile. I mean really, GG? Is this third grade?.

[Tarheel_Dem]

33. And it would be just as nice if you were to move along.

[Mojorabbit]

34. I don't plan on going anywhere. :) nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

35. Just so long as you leave me alone, I don't much care.

[Union Scribe]

38. Don't like people interrupting these snide little subthreads

where you and your friends gossip and mock posters right in front of them?

[Tarheel_Dem]

40. Nope. It's just that there's no requirement for me to interact with those for whom I...

don't wish to.

[Whisp]

36. I think you are right.

Expect some kind of made up horseshit from him/them for attention.

What's the book title? The Persecution of Glenn Greenwald? That just kills me. Persecuted!!! over and over again, he's being P.E.R.S.E.C.U.T.E.D. ! - ! - ! and 99% of the world says: huh? whose that?

[Tarheel_Dem]

39. That's it exactly. He's been removed from the headlines, and it pissed him off.

Each new revelation by GG/Snowie was met with a collective yawn, and I think it's because many in the media woke up to the fact that they were being spoon-fed/used to GG's own ends ($$$$). Sibel Edmonds has his number, and you'd be horrified at some of the accusations leveled at her by GG's most dedicated sycophants. You know, it's ironic, but they're the first to level charges of "cultist" or "cult of personality" at everyone else. They're always looking for the mote in someone else's eye, yet they refuse to see the log in their own.

[Harmony Blue]

3. You can't ignore 50+ years of American political history

this is very serious.

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. You are ABSOLUTELY ignoring 50+ yrs of political history if you think this...

and I am very serious about that...

[Harmony Blue]

6. Show me a party that was the "establishment" that won

a Presidential election or a mid term election fairly recently.

[jeff47]

13. How 'bout every election since at least 1932?

Or if your definition of "establishment" is as moronic as "in power", then there's 2012, 2004, 2002, 1998, 1996, 1988, 1984......

[MohRokTah]

4. Byond militia terrorist circles, no. eom

[Cali_Democrat]

7. This doesn't make any sense

So if the current Democratic leadership doesn't take the Bush/Cheney torture issue seriously, voters will elect the party that carried out the torture.

Ya....that makes perfect sense....

[JI7]

15. teabagger logic where they think mccain and romney lost because they were too liberal

[Cha]

16. "teabagger logic" is right.. JHC it burns.

[RobertEarl]

8. Good point

Nothing Obama or our party has done can be seen to be too authoritarian.

Now the opposition party can be seen as authoritarian. They want to control every aspect of individuals lives. They support war. They support torture!!

We have to educate the kids that we are for them having more freedom than many of us ever had. And we are making progress every day.

[Harmony Blue]

9. Perception trumps reality

that is what drives current American opinion and sway. The perception is there and that is dangerous in itself. I don't like how science and reason take a backseat in American social and political fabric but that is the reality.

[RobertEarl]

17. Yes, yes it does

So we need to always be on the lookout for ways to make sure the perception is as close to the truth as possible.

Forget the old folks, they are set in their ways. Younger folks can still be molded and that's what the party needs to be doing.

[blkmusclmachine]

10. The DEMS have co-opted past GOP talking points and pushed past GOP legislation as their own for

a long time. That being said, no one, and I repeat no one, would mistake the DEMS right-leaning with the GOP's hardcore far rightwing pseudo-religious rich white man authoritarianism.

[MisterP]

12. a great way to fight this would be to oppose authoritarianism and the Establishment

but then there'd be no big money

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. NSA, drones, no prosecution of torturers and their bosses? Nah, it's just "pragmatic" politics.

There is no error so monstrous that it fails to find defenders among the ablest men. Lord Acton

[PeteSelman]

18. No one ever talks about this stuff IRL.

I don't know anyone that cares even a little bit about droning people in other countries, it literally never comes up in everyday conversation. No one I know really cares about any of this. I only see it talked about online.

People care about jobs and the economy first and foremost. The best thing for the Democrats to do would be to put the onus of the slow recovery squarely on the baggers in congress.

[cheapdate]

21. That's my experience as well.

If I broach the subject with the people I work with, or with my neighbors the response is generally blank stares and a hope that I'll shut up it about soon.

Far more people that I encounter day to day are not especially bothered by drone strikes on the other side of the world if it "keeps America safe".

[Maedhros]

22. "I don't know anyone that cares even a little bit about droning people"

Yeah - that's one of the biggest problems with America. We don't even care about the women and children we kill in other places.

[PeteSelman]

24. We never see it. We barely hear about it.

You have to go looking for it if you want this sort of news.

I'm sure we'd have a reaction if pictures and video of these attacks were featured on the news in a prominent fashion but that's never going to happen. We can't hear the truth about what's going on in this country, let alone in those foreign lands thousands of miles away.

[Tarheel_Dem]

27. ^^^ THIS ^^^! n/t

[Boreal]

19. Both authoritarian parties

applauding the execution of Miriam Carey, an unfortunate, innocent woman, with her baby in the car, who merely took a wrong turn:

[zeemike]

20. And got a standing ovation for it.

What a nice thing it is to celebrate a death.

[Boreal]

23. Just just a death

Execution by "law" enforcement.

[BainsBane]

25. "historically....that party that is deemed the establishment and proauthoritarian'

"tends to lose elections." What historical examples do you have to support that?

My sense is that most voters don't think about the NSA issue much. They are likely to be far more concerned about jobs, food prices, and healthcare because most people are focused on just getting by.

[Tarheel_Dem]

28. I just went searching, and can't find any scientific polling to support your thesis.

NSA, torture, drones, etc. don't even register as an issue. Nobody, IRL, other than the folks who make money writing about them, and their sycophants, think these issues are of paramount "concern".

Look at Gallup, and you'll see what's important to the American people:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.aspx

Polling Report shows the same thing:

http://www.pollingreport.com/prioriti.htm

You guys are having a helluva time making your "concerns", the same as the American people. Not only are you always on a different page than the Democratic Party, you're out of step with the country as well. I think you're Exhibit A, in why liberals continue to fare so badly nationwide. Must really suck, huh?

[BlueMTexpat]

29. On what do you base these conclusions?

Having been around for 70+ years, I have seen only one party in my lifetime that is distinctly pro-authoritarian and that is today's GOP - as interventionist into people's reproductive behavior/private lives as any theocracy and willing to throw anyone of color into private prisons for as long as possible.

There is also only one party that completely (as compared to partially) bows to corporatocracy and to every idiot being able to get hold of as many guns as possible and that is today's GOP.

There is also only one party that is distinctly God-based and that is today's GOP.

The GOP is the party that most pollsters favor right now. And that party has also won quite a few elections recently.

Of course, I hope not only that the pollsters are wrong but that we GOTV and show them exactly how wrong they are.

We can certainly agree to disagree about specific aspects of the performance of the current administration (the NSA and torture programs were both begun under the previous admin, after all, and before being able to shut them down completely, one has to know exactly what and who were invoved), but your hypothesis makes very little sense given the vagaries of US voting history.

[baldguy]

30. I'd like to see Rand Paul & his sycophants try and make that stick

All the while they try to defend their support of the GOP.

[Skidmore]

32. Oy...

In whose opiate-fueled dream? Limbaugh? Beck? Koch?

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Boy, the 2016 Primary season is gonna be a hoot, here.

[Recursion]

41. Well, no, that's not the danger nationally

But thanks for your input?