What race do you think Barack Obama is? White, Black, Mixed Race, or something else?

[CreekDog]

now think about your answer for a moment.

now think about how Obama defines himself.

the latter is the correct answer.

(yes, he's obviously part of the human race, thank you.)

background:

April 14, 2014, 01:05 pm
Majority in poll says Obama is 'mixed race'

By Rebecca Shabad


A majority of people in the United States perceive President Obama as being "mixed race,” a new poll suggests.

In a study of America's evolving demographics, the Pew Research Center found 52 percent of people view Obama as being "mixed race." Less than a third view him as "black."

More than half of white people view Obama as "mixed race," but more than half of black people view the president as "black."

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/203479-majority-says-obama-is-mixed-race-not-black

[maddezmom]

1. Human race

[sarisataka]

12. Beat me to it

[CreekDog]

17. what has Obama called himself?

don't you think what Obama calls or considers himself is the correct answer? no matter what anyone else says?

[sarisataka]

22. I look at people color blind

as IME the color of skin tells me nothing of the person.

Now if we need to define race, yes the person's self-identification should trump all.

[maddezmom]

31. Okay, just googled after reading the controversy edited into the OP

Obama checked black on the census so I guess he defines himself as black. Fine with me, but I still think we would be better off if we all saw each other without the color.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/us/politics/03census.html?_r=0

[CreekDog]

114. thank you for that. and who would we be to disagree?

he is what he says he is.

there's no better person to classify themselves (if they choose to do so) than the person.

[maddezmom]

116. No disagreement from me

[Ecumenist]

134. AMEN, Maddezmom....I agree. MOST black folks here in the Americas are a Melange

of the family of man of just about EVERY continent on earth but you'd be surprised how many people argue with me when I tell themm that THERE IS ONLY ONE RACE. I guess my work in biology disqualifies me from being able to let them know that there is NO SUCH thing...ANYMORE as several RACES of mankind. I guess they're aware of extant groups of Cro magnons, Neaderthals, Homo habilis, Homo erectus, etc. It sickens me that there are people who try to cloak their latent racism in non existant pseudoscience and have the nerve to call themselves a LIBERAL....SMDH

[Nye Bevan]

46. According to some here, that makes you a racist.

Every so often we talk about race here at DU and people say stuff like, "I don't pay attention to race" or "I wish people would stop focusing on race."

But this is actually a form of racism. The people doing it might be well meaning, but claiming to be colorblind and/or seeing that as an ideal aren't helping rid the country of racism at all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024167025

(Personally I do not subscribe to this theory).

[CreekDog]

64. why do you think Stephen Colbert's act includes "I'm colorblind"

"Now, I don't see race ... People tell me I'm white, and I believe them, because I own a lot of Jimmy Buffett albums."[80] His race-blindness is a recurring joke, and this statement is often repeated on the show with different punch lines.[81] For this same reason he believed that he was black when he had an emotional breakdown after watching Obama's inauguration video. He later qualified these statements in his book, stating, "When I say I don't see race, I mean I don't see Black people. But I can spot a Mexican at a hundred paces."

(source wiki)

the right wing has morphed the MLK concept of a color blind society as not seeing race above character into...colorblind = not seeing racism.

to put it simply.

[Ecumenist]

139. I don't either, Nye and I've been mixed/black for most of my life. I'm sickened by people

who argue with me about the fact that there is ONLY ONE race and have the nerve to pretend to be a LIBERAL and/OR PROGRESSIVE.

[csziggy]

124. ^^this^^

[mfcorey1]

144. Nailed it!!!!!!!

[get the red out]

184. YES, unless

those rumors of his being a space alien are true, hmmmmm.

[maddezmom]

185. I know....saw this and now I am wondering

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4823421

[TexasProgresive]

2. The only race there is-HUMAN n/t

[CreekDog]

6. are you saying that someone who calls themselves a memember of a race, that they are wrong?

[Bandit]

18. Yes they are wrong. Science has proven there is only the one race...Human

[CreekDog]

24. so Obama's wrong when he says he's black?

so everyone who says they are black is wrong?

i think you're talking above your grade.

[oneofthe99]

68. No he's not wrong

Read Dreams of My Father

[CreekDog]

77. i was asking the other poster something specific about their observation

this is a question that only they, not you, can answer, because it's about what they think, not what is right or wrong.

do try to keep up and enjoy your stay.

[oneofthe99]

86. You're on a open forum and I will answer any question posed

when ever I feel like it whether it's asked to an other member or not.

Maybe you should try to keep up

[CreekDog]

100. would you like me to keep up?

as for posting whenever and whatever you want, yeah, that's pretty obvious.

[oneofthe99]

108. This thread isn't going that well for you

That much is obvious , any other people you feel like arguing with in the thread you started ? What's the count now 4 or 5 members?
The whole premise of your thread was not well thought out now was it.

[CreekDog]

111. not all concepts or ideas are easy to express or persuade on

many threads go well for me and i'm appreciative of that. some threads are more difficult topics to boil down and persuade on, but that doesn't mean it's not worth the effort.

[oneofthe99]

115. no argument there

[Bandit]

175. Is a collie a different species than a husky

Dogs have different colors also but doesn't mean they aren't dogs. Humans come in all colors and shapes but they are all the same race.

[CreekDog]

178. you're trying to say that being human and claiming a racial identity are mutually exclusive

they aren't.

Obama has said he is black. Obama also says he is human.

These two are not in conflict, you're attempting to say that a racial identification by the individual about themselves means that they are saying they aren't human.

You're incorrect.

[gollygee]

180. The words "species" and "race" aren't interchangeable

Species is a scientific term, and race is a social construct, but is a very real thing that people live with and have to deal with.

See post #48 for a great reply about this.

[Lizzie Poppet]

190. Agreed: race is a social construct, not a biological one.

It's also a profoundly harmful social construct...but that's another matter entirely.

[oneofthe99]

60. Maybe you need to tell the Goverment that and every employer because they all ask for it

U.S. Office of Personnel Management Guide to Personnel Data Standards
ETHNICITY AND RACE IDENTIFICATION (Please read the Privacy Act Statement and instructions before completing form.)
Name (Last, First, Middle Initial) Social Security Number Birthdate (Month and Year)
Agency Use Only
Privacy Act Statement
Ethnicity and race information is requested under the authority of 42 U.S.C. Section 2000e-16 and in compliance with the Office of Management and Budget's 1997 Revisions to the Standards for the Classification of Federal Data on Race and Ethnicity. Providing this information is voluntary and has no impact on your employment status, but in the instance of missing information, your employing agency will attempt to identify your race and ethnicity by visual observation.
This information is used as necessary to plan for equal employment opportunity throughout the Federal government. It is also used by the U. S. Office of Personnel Management or employing agency maintaining the records to locate individuals for personnel research or survey response and in the production of summary descriptive statistics and analytical studies in support of the function for which the records are collected and maintained, or for related workforce studies.
Social Security Number (SSN) is requested under the authority of Executive Order 9397, which requires SSN be used for the purpose of uniform, orderly administration of personnel records. Providing this information is voluntary and failure to do so will have no effect on your employment status. If SSN is not provided, however, other agency sources may be used to obtain it.
Specific Instructions: The two questions below are designed to identify your ethnicity and race. Regardless of your answer to question 1, go to question 2. Question 1. Are You Hispanic or Latino? (A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.) U Yes U No Question 2. Please select the racial category or categories with which you most closely identify by placing an “X” in the appropriate box. Check as many as apply. RACIAL CATEGORY (Check as many as apply) DEFINITION OF CATEGORY U American Indian or Alaska Native
U Asian
U Black or African American
U Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
U White
A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.
A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.
A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.
A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.
Standard Form 181 Revised August 2005 Previous editions not usable
42 U.S.C. Section 2000e-16
NSN 7540-01-099-344

[WillyT]

3. There Is Only One Race... The Human Race... We Invite The Knuckdraggers To Join...

[Donald Ian Rankin]

11. Go tell that to someone researching tay-sachs or sickle-cell. N.T.

[WillyT]

16. We All Came Out Of Africa...

What's your point?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

158. Two points.

1) That race is a meaningful concept, not just a fiction as you appear to be claiming.
2) That, while it's more usually harmful, it's occasionally a useful one, and so dismissing it is not merely factually incorrect but also sometimes harmful.

[oneofthe99]

65. If that is the case then there should be only one box to check when applying for tuition , job etc..

Human

that's not the case though

[WillyT]

75. Not Yet... But Someday... When We Realize We Are All Brothers And Sisters... And Treat Each Other

That Way.

[oneofthe99]

82. I couldn't agree more but until racism is Completely eliminated

from the human psyche there needs to be a definition on races.

When it comes to housing rights , employment , etc

We are not there yet where we can say we are a color blind society and just say human race ,.... hell.....we are not even close yet.

[WillyT]

85. I Wonder How Much Would Change If We Based Those Things On Socio-Economic Parameters...

Might bring poor races together... reverse the "divide and conquer" paradigm...

Maybe...

[oneofthe99]

96. But how could that even be done when we still have deep seated racism due to skin color

in this country? Just look how the President has been treated by other members of congress and the senate .
This is the highest elected office in the land and I dare say the world and still....many people couldn't get over the color of his skin.


Maybe some day but not now.

[WillyT]

97. Gotta Keep Trying... It IS The Ultimate Goal

[oneofthe99]

99. It will happen , just seeing how young children think compared to older folks is encouraging

Hate to say it but it's going to take all of us dying off and maybe one more generation after that but it will happen.
I'm sure of it.

[WillyT]

119. Word !!! - And In A Way... That Speaks Well Of Some Of The Older Generations...

They passed down love and justice, not hate and spite.

[questionseverything]

202. we need to stop dividing ourselves and realize

we are united as the 99%

1%ers come in all colors too

[oldhippie]

4. Why do you bother?

[99Forever]

5. As above:

Human.

[CreekDog]

8. yes, were you concerned I didn't know that?

thank you.

[99Forever]

9. You asked.

Why get snippy when answered?


Too much caffeine?

[CreekDog]

13. look at the OP again

[99Forever]

19. No, you asked, I answered.

Apparently you took offense at my view, for what reason I cannot begin to know or care.

[CreekDog]

23. no, i asked you to look again because i updated the OP to provide context

based on the amount of misunderstanding, i felt i needed to add explanation.

but you don't want to read, obviously you didn't post in the thread to discuss it.

[99Forever]

76. Wrongo pal.

What I "won't do" is be told by someone, anyone what my opinion is, especially some freakin' poll. I have a mind, I use it. I damn sure don't need you or anyone else to tell me how or what to think.

[CreekDog]

78. well you seem to be confused since there is no poll

and the question was a rhetorical one.

i am trying to make your time here at DU a pleasant time.

*trying*.

[99Forever]

167. "...since there is no poll."

"A majority of people in the United States perceive President Obama as being "mixed race,” a new poll suggests."


Right.

[CreekDog]

168. I didn't post a DU poll in my OP

ok? the person i'm responding to understands.

[99Forever]

170. "The person you are responding to" is me.

Right after you called me "confused" and claimed there was "no poll."

I don't quite understand people who insist on that of which there is clear evidence NOT to be so, right in front of them. Sometimes each and every one of us needs to just say,"Ooops, I messed that up." Some never learn that, I guess.

[CreekDog]

171. there are a lot of replies, i thought yours was another when i responded

i was wrong.

but i wasn't wrong in the other replies to you.

[99Forever]

172. Thank you for proving, again...

... exactly what I said in my last response to you.

Cognitive dissonance isn't just for Republicans any more.

[CreekDog]

177. i acknowledged my mistake

i even offered explanation of why i made it.

i didn't prove anything for you. i'm not here to do things for you. whatever you created in your own mind, you own, not me.

[99Forever]

179. Whatever dude.

Now, go ahead and have the last word and claim your great "victory."

[CreekDog]

181. so you're telling me what i'm thinking?

99Forever (7,370 posts)
76. Wrongo pal.

What I "won't do" is be told by someone, anyone what my opinion is,

also, you recently referred to yourself as "white"...so it's disingenuous to post in this thread that you don't acknowledge race. you do.

99Forever (7,370 posts)
138. Hogwash.

The OP was a broadbrush attack on white people

[JI7]

7. black

it's how he is viewed and treated.

on edit i will say on things like filling out forms or even discussing the issue it would be mixed.

but in terms of how if he wasn't well know and just living a regular life like most he would be seen as black.

[Number23]

26. Every black person in America knew this would happen the second he and Michelle stood on that stage

in the park in 2008.

Half black/white PRESIDENT? Mixed race.

Half black/white clown running down the street at 4 am with a tv under his arm? Black.

Same old. Same old. America is NOTHING if not predictable.

And for the record, Obama has proudly and REPEATEDLY described himself as a black man.

[JI7]

39. some will also use his mother being white to defend themselves when they

say something racist . especially with the dog whistles . when you call them out on it they will say something like "he is half white so how can it be racist" or some other bs.

[Number23]

89. The responses in this thread make me want to spontaneously weep and puke even more than usual

Between the "he's human," "I'm colorblind" and "what would MLK say" posts I just can't fucking take it.

[JustAnotherGen]

176. I just love you

I'm just gonna ignore the 'fa la la daisies fly out of our asses at the end of rainbow let's all lick lollipops '

Naive

Childish

Bullshit
up thread and down thread .

[Number23]

205. It absolutely is. "Naive, childish bullshit"

The only thing that makes this worthwhile is the number of people saying those who keep spewing "he's human" are ignoring the CENTURIES old cultural, political, social and economic Western constructs that have always put whites on top and people of color at the bottom and that by doing so, they are not only ignoring reality but the painful and all too real existences of poc.

Reminds me of this:

How many times has yelling "I'm Human!" got a black man/woman a job? A house? An education? Kept them from getting the shit kicked out of them? Kept folks from not shooting them or poorly educating their children? In a perfect world, these men would have NEVER had to remind their oppressors that they were men. In a perfect world, being human would be the answer to everything. But we don't and never have lived in a perfect world.

Naive

Childish

Bullshit
up thread and down thread .

And really, really ignorant too.

[treestar]

128. Bingo

Right winger typical crap.

[oneofthe99]

71. +1 100% correct

[AngryAmish]

117. Do you think that every black person is the same race?

Clue: there are several races in Africa.

[JI7]

118. do you mean ethnicity ?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

10. For what purpose?

There are a number of reasons one might want to categorise people by race; the two obvious ones being to make it easier to visually identify them and to discuss their life experience; for both of those purposes "black" is clearly the useful term to describe Obama, even though "mixed race" is possibly technically more accurate.

[CreekDog]

14. does anybody read the body of the OP anymore? it wasn't that long

the point was that what Obama considers himself is the correct answer.

[WillyT]

28. LOL !!! - I Feel Your Pain... And I Get What You're Saying... And You Are Correct...

How he sees himself is all that really counts.

I remember somebody calling me a "secular humanist" back in the day.

I told them, "You don't get to define me, or assign a label/religion to me. Only I get to do that."

[CreekDog]

30. thanks!

of course I always read every word of every OP I respond to.

[WillyT]

32. LOL !!! - I Try To Get... The "Gist"...

[Donald Ian Rankin]

157. I disagree. You don't, lexicographers do.

You, and only you, get to choose what you believe, obviously.

However, your views on which words do or don't accurately describe those beliefs have no more validity than anyone else's.

Words have meanings. I have no idea what you believe, but if your beliefs fit the definition of secular humanism, you are a secular humanist, and if they don't then you aren't.

If someone makes it clear that they do or don't identify as something, it's *polite* to accede to that request when describing them. But a polite fiction is not the same thing as a fact.

[CreekDog]

198. are you saying that the racial category is a scientific/objective issue?

because you're wrong about that.

or you don't understand the American meaning of the terms we are discussing.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

156. I read, and I corrected the incorrect assertion.

I can call myself Chinese as often as I like, it wouldn't mean that I am.

"What does X consider himself?" is the correct answer to "what race does X identify as". It is not, necessarily, the correct answer to "what race is X", although obviously in most cases it will be.

You do *not* have the right to define yourself. It's *polite* to accede to someone's requests to use certain words rather than others to describe them, but that doesn't mean those words are accurate.

[CreekDog]

169. No, you're wrong, so much so you had to create a bogus example to try to prove otherwise

why you think your empirical observation would ever trump a person who tells you what they identify their race as is presumptuous.

and you write like you're doing some service because without your objective observation, people will choose the wrong race because they are so subjective about their race and you're objective --you'll call the lab, perform tests, look at them carefully.



no it's not your decision, that's the point. no it's not a scientific question. it's what people define themselves as.

[immoderate]

15. You asked what I think. Right? Then you say it's not what I think?

--imm

[CreekDog]

20. yes, that's the point I was making

i don't fault you or anyone else for knowing or considering Obama's racial identity.

but remember, whatever he considers himself is the correct answer to the question, in case there is any difference.

i'm often amazed that many people can't accept that. like how can somebody be wrong about their racial identity, it's their own.

not yours, not mine, the person's, in this case, Obama's.

his decision to think, say, decide, not decide, etc.

[quinnox]

21. They used to have a thing -- if you have any drops of black in you, then you are black

I think he is mixed race, he obviously has white ancestry too because he is very light-skinned, but if I had to say one way or another I would say he is black.

[madokie]

25. I view him as my Awesome President

a president doing as good as humanly possible in the political climate he has to work in. In fact I see him as a tad super human for having the ability to let the shit roll off him like water on a ducks back.
You go President Obama, this old mostly white okie loves you and has your back

I know he is mixed race of which I am too actually but I also want to see him as our first black President. To me that is what is important.
I would like to see a Woman President and a Hispanic President before I die.

[Bjorn Against]

27. I don't think it is true that less than a third view him as black

This poll incorrectly assumes that "mixed race" and "black" are mutually exclusive categories, but they are not. My cousin is of mixed race but she identifies as black, if you asked her if she was black she would tell you she was. If you asked the question in a different way however and asked her whether she was black or mixed race she would probably tell you that she was mixed race. She understands what it is like to be be black a lot more than she understands what it is like to be white so she identifies as a black person, but that does not mean she denies that she is of mixed race. When the pollsters assume that nobody who said Obama is of mixed race would also consider him to be black it shows they really don't have much of an understanding of racial issues.

[CreekDog]

37. Exactly my complaint about that poll

i was surprised that Pew would make such a mistake.

[SevenSixtyTwo]

29. I've heard him

refer to himself as African American. I think of him as mixed race or black. I don't think of red, yellow, black or white as offensive. Hey! I could write a children's' Sunday school song! I'm kind of a mutt myself.

[grasswire]

36. I had forgotten that song

I wonder if fundie children have been singing it lately.

[LuvNewcastle]

43. Yes, I've heard him identify as African-American, too.

He seems to readily claim his white ancestry as well, but his identity as a black man seems to be dominant, both in how he thinks of himself and how he is perceived by most of the public.

I'm not sure it was always that way with him. He grew up in Hawaii, which is far more multi-cultural than most of the U.S., and I think there are more people there who identify as multi-racial. I think his perception of himself probably changed some when he saw how he was viewed by people in the mainland U.S.

[AverageJoe90]

33. A human of mixed race. But here's the most important question, IMHO:

What does he consider himself as?

Edit: So I guess, in essence, it's one of those rare things on which we see pretty much eye to eye on.

[Puzzledtraveller]

34. A little bit of this and a little bit of that

like most of us are.

[Enrique]

35. black and mixed-race n/t

[rrneck]

38. I don't care. nt

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

40. OMG everyone is Pollyanna about this

You live in the USA where he is black. You don't agree with that, then maybe you're from a different country where he is white.

It's not hard!!

[chrisa]

41. High Elf

[Maedhros]

45. Noldor, please.

"Elf" is a human appellation.

[MohRokTah]

42. President Barack Hussein Obama is a member of the HUMAN RACE.

Just like everybody else.

Any other distinctions are meaningless in the grand scheme of life.

[whistler162]

105. Careful many on here would disagree on principle!

Are we sure he is of the Human Race and not a Martian in disguise?

[MohRokTah]

107. IF he is NOT human, he is Kryptonian

He did, after all, say his father's name was Jar' El in a speech, once.

[Nye Bevan]

44. Aren't you straying dangerously close to the dreaded "colorblindess",

which is, apparently, these days, somehow racist?

Every so often we talk about race here at DU and people say stuff like, "I don't pay attention to race" or "I wish people would stop focusing on race."

But this is actually a form of racism. The people doing it might be well meaning, but claiming to be colorblind and/or seeing that as an ideal aren't helping rid the country of racism at all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024167025

[CreekDog]

51. how is saying that whatever race he considers himself *is* his race, how is that colorblindness?

you're confused. especially since i don't even argue that race doesn't or shouldn't exist now or previously.

[Scootaloo]

63. It is in fact racism

First and primarily, it denies self-identification. That is itself a big strain of bigotry, "you're not X because I say you're not X!"

Secondly, it presupposes a normative standard - which without fail, is the White Anglo American "standard."

Third, it's not color-blind, it's reality-blind. For better or worse the concept of "race" is very much a real and influential thing in our society, with real and tangible effects. pretending there's no such thing is essentially a way of denyong the existence of racism itself, and the reality experienced by thousands of people every day.

[Scootaloo]

59. Try that one again?

[SevenSixtyTwo]

69. Yeah,

lousy attempt at humor. My apologies.

[elleng]

152. Thanks for the apology.

[struggle4progress]

48. Race isn't a scientific concept, but people have the right to define themselves however they want

The history of "race" as a social concept, of course, is mostly a history of people defining other people:

"He's Injun. So there's no law against shooting him and taking his land"

"She's black. So she gets to be my slave"

"You're Chinese. So you can do our laundry when you're done building the railway, but you'll never own land here"

That social history has left its traces in various American subcultures

[MohRokTah]

54. +7,046,000,000 eom

[gollygee]

165. Best reply in thread!

[lumberjack_jeff]

49. Thanks for providing the correct answer.

It's a real blow to our self esteem that we keep getting the answers to your questions wrong.

The downside is that you have missed an opportunity to know, understand and catalog our true intentions and opinions.

My answer to your test (before I read the answer) was "It doesn't matter". The only identity that matters is the one he himself holds.

This is where express your full throated support of the concept of inviolate self identity... then call me an MRA again.

[yuiyoshida]

50. Why does this even matter?

Its what he does and who he is ... isn't it? I mean... SHALL we from now on start referring to me as "The Asian American Yui Yoshida"??

[liberal N proud]

53. Exactly

[ForgoTheConsequence]

57. Is that like "the artist formerly known as..."?

It doesn't really roll off the tounge. Haha.

[yuiyoshida]

61. Someone looked at me the other day and asked me how

to pronounce my name... i told them...

its Yuueee YOH she DA.

So yeah it would be a tongue twister adding "The Asian American" after ....

[CreekDog]

66. it matters because people are imposing their own definitions of race on others

and not accepting or allowing the person themselves to define what they are or consider themselves to be (or not be).

and it matters because Pew, stupidly, seems to have asked a poll question about Obama's race that made being black and being mixed race mutually exclusive.

[yuiyoshida]

72. I guess to me it doesn't matter...

Because If I am going to judge the man on anything, its what he does.. and how he preforms as President of the United States.

It should be noted that this week, Jackie Robinson will be honored by Major League Baseball. Every player on the field will be wearing #42. A tribute to a great player who also help ushered minorities into Major League Baseball. A man who also endured hatred no matter where he played. Its sad that skin color was an issue back than, just as much as it still seems to be an issue today.

[CreekDog]

74. i think you're confused. you think i asked about judging Obama based on his race.

i absolutely didn't say that.

[yuiyoshida]

80. No, I don't blame you for anything...

The discussion was on "What race the President is" I am saying it doesn't matter. Even Martin Luther King Jr said...

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

[Number23]

84. The reason it was his "dream" was because it wasn't happening and they were being judged

on their race. Along with every other black/non-white person in America. Pretending that racism has never existed is just... I don't know how to say it politely.

[yuiyoshida]

90. Yup, and the same with Jackie Robinson...

[Number23]

91. I have no idea what your post means.

[yuiyoshida]

94. Pehaps you can google

Jackie Robinson. He is being Honored this week by Major League Baseball. There was also a movie about his life out just recently...

[Number23]

95. I still have no idea what your posts mean and judging by this post, I'm starting to think that

a) that's not a bad thing and b) I'm not the only one that has no idea what you are trying to say.

But that's okay. We'll just end this here.

[CreekDog]

88. no, the discussion isn't on what race the President is, it is on who should determine that

and the answer is the President himself.

and I didn't say it matters, I said understanding that the person tells us what race they are (if they choose to identify with any), we shouldn't impose our definition on them.

that's the point.

as for blaming me, you haven't even quoted me correctly, so there is really no blame.

[yuiyoshida]

92. ah sou...

Wakatta ...understood.

[notadmblnd]

143. As a mother of a multi-racial child, I personally don't like lables.

I think that labels is what separates people. However, I do think that we as human beings are programmed to sort and categorize- and being mere human beings we will always sort, categorize and label.

I also feel that we as human beings can recognize that prejudice, bigotry and racism is wrong and that the best we can do is to work towards eliminating our urge to sort and categorize people according to their ethnicity or skin color within ourselves.

It used to bother me that strangers would ask me what my child was. I thought it was a rude question and I'd usually rudely reply that he was a little boy. You see, they weren't quite sure.. they couldn't tell if he was Hispanic, Arab, Indian or African American. He is in fact African American and Caucasian but I am certain that he identifies himself as African American.

He told me about an amusing incidence recently. While working for a nieces boyfriend with a Hispanic crew that didn't speak much English. It seemed to the white couple they were working for noticed that he was an assimilated Hispanic and asked my son to interpret for them. My son only knows a few words of Spanish. It made me think at the time-how great it would if everyone was as unsort-able and un-categorizable as my son.

[CreekDog]

145. Yes. I appreciate what you've written.

my point in the OP, and I'm sorry I was clumsy about it...was that when we are asked what someone's race is (as the Pew Poll did), that people remember that it is what the person one is describing says or thinks it is. if they identify one, two or multiple ways, in a unique way or not at all, it is their call and they are right.

one thing that upset me here at DU was several years ago was when people were deciding whether Obama was white or black. so many people didn't think it mattered what he, Obama thought was the answer.

so i saw the poll from Pew and, the thing that stood out to me was that they grouped "Hispanics" which isn't a race in the traditional sense and more of them thought he was mixed race than the other groups asked, but being that Hispanic is so varied, an artificial construct of multiple artificial races, that i wondered if many in that "category" were more familiar with the idea of mixed race, rather than having to group so much...but who knows...

but the other thing that really grated me was they must have asked *which* race, not allowing the respondents to say more than one answer (the census does though). i know people that self identify as mixed but also identify with one or more races. the question should have recognized that as a valid or possible answer.

but those of mixed race are really underappreciated and often forced into categories that they don't necessarily hate, but would hate being forced into only one.

thank you for the thoughts.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

52. black. race is a social construct, therefore his own ethnic identity trumps

some weird belief in genetics.

[redgreenandblue]

163. "belief in genetics"?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

191. belief in racial genetics

i.e. a belief that race is somehow a biological construct

color (amount of melanin) is a biological construct, but race isn't

[CreekDog]

174. i agree, i'm sorry i didn't make that point more clearly

[La Lioness Priyanka]

196. i was just rephrasing your point

[uponit7771]

186. amen

[CJCRANE]

55. Irish.

[treestar]

129. there's no one as Irish as Barack O'Bama

[NYC_SKP]

56. I'm still trying to figure out why pedestrians can't be more careful when they cross streets...

...against lights, and what's so wrong about yielding to a car to allow traffic to flow more smoothly.

And now this new dilemma?

[sakabatou]

58. Human

It should be phrased better as ethnicity?

[Number23]

62. I did a post about this a while ago. May have been the last time I bothered to create an OP in GD

http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4560345

Reminds me of a story that happened in Australia where a white, male (conservative) journalist was sued by several light skinned Aboriginal activists because he declared from up high that they were too white to be Aboriginal. They sued the hell out of him and won.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-25/andrew-bolt-isnt-a-racist-but/5344286

[Hekate]

160. See my post #159 on the malleability of identity

For some, I think his being half/half allows them to identify more readily with the part that is "like them," and I really see no harm in that -- as long as people also acknowledge/try to understand the element of choice.

Your anecdote about the light Aboriginals reminds me of Elizabeth Warren's opponent who made such a stink about her Native American ancestry. What fools....

[Rex]

67. Whatever he decides on, I will go with.

That is not my decision to make.

[KamaAina]

70. Cablanasian.

[Crunchy Frog]

73. Human?

[MineralMan]

79. Human race.

That is 100% accurate.

[CreekDog]

81. if Obama says he's black do you correct him?

just wondering.

there was like a whole context in there for the question. but maybe people just read the OP, fine, but the answer seems obtuse given the text.

[MineralMan]

83. I do not believe that races exist.

Only species. It is that simple for me. Races are artificial, man-made distinctions, and of no value. You asked. That is my answer.

[YoungDemCA]

132. Unfortunately, those "artificial, man-made distinctions" have profound social consequences...

So, we have to deal with those.

[CreekDog]

137. but you refer to racial classifications in other posts

did you become totally colorblind in this thread?

[gollygee]

141. They exist as social constructs

and they are very real to the people oppressed by their existence. To ignore their existence, regardless of the fact that they are social constructs rather than biological, is to ignore the experience of the people who have suffered as a result of their existence.

[Revanchist]

162. If they exist solely as social constructs then how do you explain the differences in disease

rates and leading causes of death? I'm not just talking about in their native countries either, the CDC state that cancer is the leading cause of death among Asian-Americans even though heart disease is the number one killer among the rest of the country. As it was mentioned up-thread someone who is caucasian doesn't have to worry about sickle-cell but it can be deadly to someone who is black (I won't say African-American here because it is the same no matter what country an individual is from). For those of you who state that we are all members of the human race or that you are color-blind please do not consider a job as a healthcare professional, that attitude can be detrimental to the health and well being of your patients.

[gollygee]

164. There are diseases that are prevalent primarily or completely in

only one section of white people as well.

It is a social construct but there are some physical differences, mostly visual differences, which is what we use to construct race, but since ancestors came from different places there are other physical differences as well. The thing that shows that it's really a social construct, though, is that throughout history who was considered "white" has changed.

I totally agree about the concept of "color blind" but it's detrimental in a larger way than that. I think the term "color blind" is used only to dismiss people of color and their experiences.

[Edim]

109. Does he say black race or just black? nt

[kwassa]

87. The Indianapolis 500?

[JoePhilly]

93. If he was not President, and he was at the door ...

... To pick up your daughter for a date, he'd be black, regardless of what color you are.

Or am I wrong?

[Islandurp]

98. Samoan

[whistler162]

101. American!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

102. I really don't fucking care

and I voted for him twice.

[muntrv]

103. He is a member of the human race.

[qazplm]

104. both

I'm Black, and I'm mixed-race...so is Obama. They both have parts that accurately identify me and him. One recognizes objective reality, and one recognizes subjective and societal reality.

[Ecumenist]

106. He seems to appear to be a HUMAN....

But what do I know...

[CreekDog]

112. i can't disagree

i didn't say he wasn't human.

there was a news story below, did you even see that? it was in the OP. that's what the question was related to.

it seems like people are confused because they read the OP answer the question, without reading the questions below and news story below, then they respond with a kind of confused "I thought he was human".

well yeah, i think he's human too.

but above a story saying that a poll asking people what his race was, me pointing out that it's whatever Obama says it is, was a reaosnable thing to post.

[Ecumenist]

121. There is only ONE race.....Homo sapiens PERIOD. I read the post and I do NOT

subscribe to people's IGNORANT idea that we are somehow different races, based on DIFFERENT skin colors, hair texture..RACES are considered to be SUBSPECIES in the taxonomic NOMENCLATURE & thus, are considered sufficiently different taxonomically, that they have a DIFFERENT NAME . So, unless there are some HOMO erectus, Homo neanderthalensis, ( some paleotologists consider them to be a SUBSPECIES or to teach you an little, a DIFFERENT RACE) of Homo sapiens- HOMO sapiens neanderthalensis....( THIS IS A RACE, BTW), Homo habilis, perhaps an errant Cro magnon running around, ( or even, some extraterrestrial Hominoid variant, if you have an open mind), there is ONLY one race....HOMO SAPIENS...get it?

I have NEVER heard neither has there EVER been any taxonomic classification of Homo sapiens africanus, Homo sapiens asiaticus, Homo sapiens europeanus, Homo sapiens indicus, Homo sapiens americanus or Homo sapiens australicus...EVER!! I READ THAT IDIOTIC "poll" and saw it for what it is...ignorant pseudo-scientific trash....BUT you believe what you want to believe...

[CreekDog]

126. you're saying race is only a scientific term, and you'd be wrong

[Ecumenist]

130. Well, I guess for racists, it isn't a scientific term. So, I guess I can grudgingly

agree with you but then, for most RACISTS, science is something from the pits of hell and for the rest, it's something they twist to support their flawed and sick beliefs.

[cherokeeprogressive]

110. Ooh Ooh Ooh! Pick me!

[shanti]

113. Obama self-identifies as black

So he's black. That's good enough for me.

[Iggo]

120. If he wasn't famous, and he got pulled over by the LAPD...

...then what race would he be?

[lunasun]

138. +1 !! exactly

[gollygee]

122. My eyes have seldom rolled as much

as they rolled while reading through this thread.

He says he's black, and he's black.

[CreekDog]

123. I agree

[Vashta Nerada]

125. Race is a cultural construct.

"Race" how we know it doesn't actually exist. It only exists because we allow it to exist.

[treestar]

127. Aren't we all?

I think of him as black, though. He's the first black President. Racists hate that. I think his white mother is a comfort to them - at least he's only half black. That's how they are thinking.

[YoungDemCA]

133. I have heard right-wingers say "Congrats to America for electing its first half-white POTUS"

...with thinly veiled contempt/sarcasm, of course.

[YoungDemCA]

135. It's telling that a majority of white Americans think of him as "mixed race"...

...while a majority of black Americans see him as black.

I tend to think people can define themselves better than others can. That's just me, though. YMMV.

[PennsylvaniaMatt]

136. One thing about the media that I've noticed when they speak about the President...

One thing I've picked up on is when the media is talking about something civil rights related, or something in a historical context, they make it a point to refer to President Obama as "the first African-American President."

Do they really have to point that out? As if the entire nation has been living under a rock for the past six years...(well, maybe the 47% of people that vote Republican in national elections have been living under a rock )

I just wish we could live in a more color blind society. Barack Obama isn't the African-American President of the United States...he is the President of the United States.

[devils chaplain]

140. Both

For historical reasons people in this country people with noticeable Sub-Saharan ancestry are considered black. And so he's black. But being raised primarily by whites, he has a mixed cultural heritage, so I'd say he's also mixed race.

[TheKentuckian]

142. I don't give a shit to be honest but I am curious if the folks who say he is what he says he is

would feel as supportive and gun ho if a person of similar heritage tried to identify as white. I don't buy it based on the decades I have had to observe and this goes for black or white folks

I have no test example, for myself I just check of boxes until I catch everything applicable, hit up "other" or mixed race if available, and on occasion go black myself.
I started doing this at a young age because as a kid I never felt like selecting one was honest or respectful to my forebearers.

I also like to thumb my nose at the old shitty "one drop" rule and don't care for little boxes.

I don't think I'd ever identify as just white (just doesn't sit right) though I have gone with just black on occasion and have enough native blood to claim that as well.


To be honest, if I was God Emperor my breeding program would annihilate the current races as quickly as possible, I see no value and much entropy generated from them. The constructs are somewhat weak anyway, take away the easy eye test and it pretty much collapses anyway. No other creatures are put into races over such lazy labels, the "races" largely exist to enable racism rather than any constructive purpose, breed them out. Diversify your genes.

[Skip Intro]

146. Who gives a fuck? n/t

[CreekDog]

149. who gives a f---? well, many African Americans do, including this one:

"Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago," Obama told White House reporters in a surprise appearance at the daily briefing.

"There are very few African-American men in this country who have not had the experience of being followed when they are shopping at a department store. That includes me," the president said.

"There are probably very few African-American men who have not had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me - at least before I was a senator," he continued.

"There are very few African-Americans who have not had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had the chance to get off. That happens often," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/19/politics/obama-zimmerman/

maybe you can tell them not to give a f--- (your words).

[Skip Intro]

150. Sorry, I don't sit around all day dwelling on what race the president is.

I guess that makes me a racist?

[CreekDog]

151. well how would i know?

how much of the day?

[NealK]

154. I like Cjeekdgg.

[flamingdem]

147. US perspective he is black

Caribbean perspective he is mixed

Culturally, in the USA he is black to most but biologically we all know he is mixed.

The Caribbean doesn't put people into black / white categories as much as the USA does because such a large percentage of the population is mixed. That's a simplistic explanation but also of note historically a person of color could purchase the status "white" there.

[Warren DeMontague]

148. ILLUMINIZARD

[Orrex]

173. You fool!

You'll get us all killed!

[chrisa]

189. After that thing with the fly, I've always suspected.

Now I have proof.

Also, Hillary dodging that shoe - obvious lizard reflexes. Then, she asked if it was a bat - clearly looking for a reptile's favorite snack, if you ask me.

[penultimate]

214. lol...

Ever hear that Louis C.K bit in which he asked Donald Rumsfeld if he is a lizard from outerspace? He only deflected and never answered the question... Makes you wonder who else in our government may be a member of the alien lizard ruling class.

[NealK]

153. He refers to himself as African American.

[uriel1972]

155. Genetically there is only one human race...

So I guess other is my answer.

[Hekate]

159. Hapa-haole. Mahalo for asking.

In Hawaii, which is where I also come from, ethnicity and race are much more malleable than they are on the Mainland.

IIRC, young Obama moved to the Mainland to find out what being African American is, and chose to stay. In choosing Michelle as his life's partner, he cemented that decision: he, like she, is African American.

Yet as Michelle has been quoted, she tells mutual friends that "If you don't get Hawaii, you don't get Barack." When I read that it confirmed my own intuition from reading his first book and observing him from afar: Hawaii is very much at the core of his being.

[JoeyT]

161. I'm kinda curious as to what other mixed race people tend to view him as.

I'm mixed, and I always thought of him as being mixed race too.

[JustAnotherGen]

182. Black

Of mixed race heritage

There are things personally I relate to strictly as a black woman.

There are things that a woman with four black grandparents can't relate to - that are very specific to my european and yes - native ethnic background.

There are things as woman that are universal.

But while shopping or navigating America - straight up - I'm black.

Now when I used travel to Europe as a single woman - they don't know what I am - sometimes I'm Algerian, other times I go with Egyptian and when I was young and out and single and about I was Brazilian - but when we are talking love, romance, escapades and my favorite past time - Champagne Campaigns - with hot foreigners I was whatever got me on the back of the bike!

Now when I travel abroad - I married to some guy from Italy - so now I'm boring.

[Number23]

206. I just love you!

Now when I used travel to Europe as a single woman - they don't know what I am - sometimes I'm Algerian, other times I go with Egyptian and when I was young and out and single and about I was Brazilian - but when we are talking love, romance, escapades and my favorite past time - Champagne Campaigns - with hot foreigners I was whatever got me on the back of the bike!

[JustAnotherGen]

215. As Wanda Sykes would say . . .

I'mA be me!

At least I'm honest!

[uponit7771]

187. mixed race = black... still.... because this is America. He would be profiled in front of his house

... too

[kelliekat44]

166. Mixed race but still black. Period! nt

[uponit7771]

188. +1

[Miguel Guate]

197. Is he still white, period? Nt

[fredamae]

183. Personally, I Don't Care

I must be "odd girl out" because I sincerely don't give a rats behind about Anything aside from his policies and governance.
In my view we hired a POTUS based upon our perception of his "self defining views and perspectives"---which was grand, but failed to come to fruition due, mostly-to the obstruction from McConnell, Issa's witch hunts, Cruz's magical fascinations with cartoon characters, Boehners "drunken" willingness to play "tea party whack a mole" against the Dems, Ryans love affair with the ghost of Ayn Rand and Cantors unmasked corporate shilling (just to name a few)

Trust me, the Last thing I'm thinking about right now is whether or not he's perceived as "Black, Mixed, White" or whatever. I can't believe they've polled people about this as If there is nothing else more important?

[Lizzie Poppet]

192. The Indianapolis 500?

Maybe the Tour de France? The Boston Marathon? 24 Hours of Le Mans? Hard to say...

Oh, wait...wrong kind of "race!"

[CreekDog]

195. Barack Obama said he was the Indianapolis 500?

try harder next time.

[Lizzie Poppet]

199. Humor. Perhaps you've heard of it.

Look, you got just the "discussion" you were looking for in this post. Enjoy it and quit whingeing. Sorry if I didn't treat it with the seriousness you (pretend to) think it deserves...

[CreekDog]

212. humor is easier to identify when it's funny

[Sivafae]

193. I've heard him describe himself as bi-racial.

But in this country, when it comes to police or racists, that doesn't matter, he is black.

It is news to me that he has also described himself as African-American.

If I had to make an assertion about his ethnicity, I would say bi-racial.

But however you categorize him, I think he is an awesome guy. There is a lot Obama gets because he has lived it. And that experience is what made me vote for him.

[LexVegas]

194. I view him as mixed race.

[Blue_In_AK]

200. Human.

Duh.

[grahamhgreen]

201. Half Dem/Half Oligarch?

[NCTraveler]

203. The way things are today he is black.

That is leaving out the human part and answering directly as to the question you are attempting to ask. Why black? We need to take appearances, stereotypes, and societies treatment of identifiable groups very seriously. To those who say human, I would simply ask what the racist walking by them on the sidewalk calls them as they pass. I want to ask them if the law is systemically unjust toward them for the color of their skin. Race is about a lot more than biology and calling it the human race. Visual identifiers currently being used to oppress and we have words to describe said identifiers.

[Glassunion]

204. Mixed

I feel that we all are multiracial. This is because I have yet to find a single definitive source that can uniformly identify race. I look at myself, and wonder this all the time. I identify as black, however my father was white. Unsure of what all races my mother's family consisted of, as the records for slaves were not kept with genealogy in mind. However on my father's side, he Identified as Irish, however the Irish were made up of several differing European races, and in particular there were a lot of marriages with those of Spanish ancestry. Now if you look further into Spanish genealogy, and you can add not only more European Races, but Middle Eastern and African as well.

If he chooses to identify with being black, I can agree. I check the same box on the Census forms.

[ancianita]

207. YEP. And in fifty years most of us will look mixed.

Pretty cool, eh?

[idendoit]

208. What do you think the OP's IQ is?

Above average, less than average or something else?

[CreekDog]

210. ok bye

see you when you come back!

[Lady Freedom Returns]

211. like me

Red, White, & Blue!

[penultimate]

213. AMAZING!!!

The Amazing Race!


*groan* Yeah, I wanna slap myself in the face for that one too.