Trillion Dollar Question: IF We Get Our Democracy Back, How Do We Get Our Economy Back?

[Junkdrawer]

How do you rebuild a nation's economy which hasn't had to be competitive since, oh say, 1975?

We've been selling the world Dollars. Made in the USA. I believe that we've made it clear that competition there, say by a BRICS Bank, is a Casus Belli. So now we go to the same world and say "Loan us a few trillion and we'll build, say, advanced solar cell factories to compete with YOUR industries." Shocking, but I'm thinking the World just may stand there with a rye grin.

Not saying it's impossible, but damn. Talk about a hangover. Last advanced manufacturing plant I remember being built in this area was German/Japanese, part of a deal to allow access to our markets:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIDC_Westmoreland

[Motown_Johnny]

1. Well.....

You need to start with budget surpluses so that you can stop borrowing money and begin paying down the debt. Taxing the rich is one way to help accomplish this, also investing in the middle class will help.


http://theweek.com/article/index/259876/speedreads-obama-is-on-track-to-leave-a-budget-surplus

^snip^

Obama is on track to leave a budget surplus

Bill Clinton left the presidency with a budget surplus. And although the first five years of Barack Obama's presidency have featured high (but falling) deficits, it's starting to look like Obama could do the same.

For the first time since the 1950s, federal spending is lower than it was four years ago:

As Mike Darda argues:

The fiscal deficit has been falling by an average of 1.5 percentage points per annum since peaking in late 2009. If this trend continues, it would imply a balanced budget during 2015 and a fiscal surplus in 2016. [AEI]

Obama leaving office with a balanced budget would come as a big shock to those who have compared the U.S. to crisis-stricken countries like Greece, or claimed that Obama is spending like a drunken sailor.

But that is exactly what the U.S. is on trend to do. (h/t James Pethokoukis) - - John Aziz

[Junkdrawer]

2. I guess implicit in my question is: If we take political control back...

from the Super Wealthy, they may take their ball and go away.

Can that be stopped?

[WillyT]

3. Can't Find My Old Post... But Here's My Idea...

Come up with a tax formula for the top tax rates, that is "chained" to a combination of employment levels and wages.

The lower the unemployment, the higher the wages... the lower the top tax rate.

And... vice versa... if unemployment goes up/wages go down... taxes on the wealthy increase.

Make it progressive for everybody making over $250,000 a year, as an example.

If we tie them to us, they won't allow us to drown.

Somebody smarter than me would have to come up with the details.

[Junkdrawer]

5. Sounds good, except there's always the runaway loophole....

From what I'm seeing, the wealthy have been anticipating something like this for a while now.

Not only is Dad running away, he's clearing out the bank accounts first.

In fact, THAT will probably the surest sign we've elected genuine reformers: when the rats take their money and abandon ship.

[socialist_n_TN]

4. You've got it reversed. We won't get true political democracy......

until we get economic democracy. And that's because they are intertwined with the economic driving the political. You've got to put them on the run economically, then when the timing is right, you have to take political power too.

[Junkdrawer]

6. How do you put them on the run economically WITHOUT taking political power?

[socialist_n_TN]

9. Strikes, strikes and more strikes........

Culminating in a general strike that shuts down their profit machine. Mass demonstrations that shuts down everything else. It won't be pretty, but someday it'll have to be done. Then when it's shut down, the workers have to take political power away from the owners and their toadies in the political class.

[Junkdrawer]

10. Point taken. But then....

1.) Most of the factories are gone. The workforce is scattered hither and yon.

2.) Rebuilding will require Capital unless you can rebuild with only the resources found in this country. But, see point 1.)

[socialist_n_TN]

15. Well, I'm not sure most of the factories would be gone..........

I would also include occupations OF the factories by the workers to protect the infrastructure when I'm talking about strikes. No one (at least at first) would want the destruction of the factories, the workers because they work there and the owners because they would want them reopened ASAP and it's their "property". But indeed, you are correct that it will be iffy. I will also add that it needs to be worldwide, at least in all of the developed countries. Otherwise, the oligarchs just move to another location. Remember too that a lot of what passes for "wealth" now is just bytes on a computer, bytes that could be erased with the right type of hackers. In the situation that I described above, the only thing that would really count would be the actual physical infrastructure and physical resources. The rest is just scorekeeping for capitalism.

But that's why a "vanguard" is necessary. You need some folks who have enough training and historical knowledge to get workers through the hard times to the other side.

As I said, it won't be easy and it WILL be messy and it won't come tomorrow, but it will come. Either that or some form or neo-feudal barbarism. It will take the majority working TOGETHER from the bottom up to make it successful. And nothing is guaranteed

[kelliekat44]

7. Use force to get all the money stashed in off-shore accounts. Economic force! nt

[Junkdrawer]

8. Yep. It's probably going to come to that or more....

just as now, establishing a new World Bank/World Currency is a Casus Belli, so too will harboring our Super Wealthy and their ill gotten gains.

I don't think a sneak attack is possible here. It's going to be straight up and ugly - by necessity.

[Generic Brad]

11. Don't pay a trillion dollars for the answer

I will give you an answer for half that price.

[Junkdrawer]

12. But only if you act within the next 5 minutes...

Operators are waiting.

[nationalize the fed]

13. re-Start making things

besides drones and internet wiretaps

It can be done next week by changing the tax on corporations. But it won't. Both parties say "the jobs are gone" and people re-elect these traitors.

[Avalux]

14. I don't think we're getting anything back. We've got to undo and start over.

That's the only way I see this country surviving. Somehow, even though we have so many differences, the people have to start working together for their own common good - against the ruling class.