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struggle4progress

(118,280 posts)
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 03:43 AM Apr 2014

Um ... The US has always been an oligarchy, folk

It's been two-steps-forward-one-step-back here from the very beginning

For many decades, states could limit the vote to property owners: that didn't change overnight. The Constitution didn't really promise citizenship rights to large numbers of people until the Civil War amendments passed. Until the early twentieth century, the hacks in the state legiaslatures elected US Senators, and women couldn't vote. Native Americans weren't considered citizens until 1924. If you were too poor to pay a "poll tax," the oligarchs could keep you from voting -- until the Constitution was amended in 1964. The Fifteenth Amendment was only there on paper for almost a hundred years before it was finally honored in the South, as a result of the civil rights struggle. During the Vietnam war and prior wars, people were drafted and sent to fight while they were still too young to vote

Not one of these changes would have occurred without organized movements for change

It's the same story for the eight hour day, or the forty hour week, or overtime pay; and the same for ending child labor; and the same for having any worker health and safety rules

Decide what change you want, and go stand shoulder-to-shoulder with other people to work for that change. Nobody's just going to hand us what we want. You have to organize for it

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Um ... The US has always been an oligarchy, folk (Original Post) struggle4progress Apr 2014 OP
Let's put on our comfortable shoes and do it! nt MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #1
Yes we can! 1000words Apr 2014 #3
We are not an oligarchy now, either treestar Apr 2014 #2
Aww Flying Squirrel Apr 2014 #4
+1 deutsey Apr 2014 #9
Voters let it function as an oligarchy Orangepeel Apr 2014 #14
But you have no answer treestar Apr 2014 #15
Name 20 FDR progressives in ANY of those branches. HughBeaumont Apr 2014 #12
You're only saying big money gets access to media treestar Apr 2014 #16
You have too much faith in a voting public who selected a dry drunk idiot. Twice. HughBeaumont Apr 2014 #18
We could attempt to get them to think differently treestar Apr 2014 #26
We've always all been strangers in an unknown wilderness, struggle4progress Apr 2014 #20
That sentiment by Langston Hughes treestar Apr 2014 #25
I salute you, struggle, for actually getting out there in the streets and working Cha Apr 2014 #5
The Movers & Shakers in DC are finally taking down the curtains. blkmusclmachine Apr 2014 #6
... But I keep laughin instead of cryin: I must keep fightin until I'm dyin ... struggle4progress Apr 2014 #21
yeah, but how about those of us who JI7 Apr 2014 #7
Can you expand on why you see a connection Quantess Apr 2014 #11
Ain gonna let nobody turn me around struggle4progress Apr 2014 #19
Spot on lovemydog Apr 2014 #8
Not only is no one just going to hand us what we want deutsey Apr 2014 #10
100%. Also, any organization will be an oligarchy to some extent. Chathamization Apr 2014 #13
Exactly. treestar Apr 2014 #17
No. Not really. After Lincoln and through JFK. Octafish Apr 2014 #22
You imagine a Golden Age that never existed struggle4progress Apr 2014 #23
For most of the industrial revolution, it was up for grabs. Rex Apr 2014 #24
Hear, hear! Laelth Apr 2014 #27

treestar

(82,383 posts)
2. We are not an oligarchy now, either
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 04:11 AM
Apr 2014

ol·i·gar·chy [ol-i-gahr-kee] Show IPA
noun, plural ol·i·gar·chies.
1.
a form of government in which all power is vested in a few persons or in a dominant class or clique; government by the few.
2.
a state or organization so ruled.
3.
the persons or class so ruling.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oligarchy

Power is vested in the three branches of the federal government and of each state government, and the people who hold those laws are either voted for or chosen by people we voted for.

Orangepeel

(13,933 posts)
14. Voters let it function as an oligarchy
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:02 AM
Apr 2014

The people do have the power, if we would collectively use it at the ballot box.

But, some people like the oligarchy. Others are manipulated into supporting it. The rest of us can't agree on how best to work against it.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
15. But you have no answer
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:14 AM
Apr 2014

Do you vote? I guess you are forced to sit home by the "oligarchs?"

Some people just enjoy being victims. I don't get it, but I see it all the time.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
12. Name 20 FDR progressives in ANY of those branches.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 06:17 AM
Apr 2014

Representatives NOT sullied by the Almighty Profit. Who ARE these rare characters?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
16. You're only saying big money gets access to media
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:15 AM
Apr 2014

Doesn't mean the voters have to react to it.

If we took some responsibility for our own minds, it would do wonders. We are pretending to be helpless victims of the media.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
18. You have too much faith in a voting public who selected a dry drunk idiot. Twice.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 09:59 AM
Apr 2014

Yes, I know . . . the first time, the Failure Fuhrer had a LOT of help.

The fact remains that enough American voters thought a dry drunk idiot was the better choice to run this nation. Twice.

Oh, and they also elected, DESPITE said dry drunk idiot's 8-year whiskey-throttle ruining of this country, the Boehner Congress.

Whether or not you like it or believe it, the voting public DOES listen to the Almighty Profit.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
26. We could attempt to get them to think differently
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 08:09 AM
Apr 2014

If we just give up as you have apparently, then we will continue to have the effects you observe.

I'm not that cynical about fellow Americans however. They at least deserve a say - if they want this "oligarchy" in a majority, they will get it. If they want something else, they can have it.



struggle4progress

(118,280 posts)
20. We've always all been strangers in an unknown wilderness,
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 03:39 PM
Apr 2014

trying to keep our eyes on our stars and on the ground where our feet next must step



... America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath—
America will be! ...

-- Langston Hughes

treestar

(82,383 posts)
25. That sentiment by Langston Hughes
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 08:07 AM
Apr 2014

is excellent. The potential is there, and is has been partly realized. Money always talks, but it's not everything.

Cha

(297,154 posts)
5. I salute you, struggle, for actually getting out there in the streets and working
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 05:27 AM
Apr 2014

for change.. Thank you!

JI7

(89,247 posts)
7. yeah, but how about those of us who
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 05:34 AM
Apr 2014

like to feel cool and popular by going to a website that is about supporting democrats and laughing and poking fun at those on the site who support democrats ?

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
11. Can you expand on why you see a connection
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 05:56 AM
Apr 2014

between your statement and the OP? I don't quite understand how your comment relates to the OP, and I am thinking it probably doesn't.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
8. Spot on
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 05:40 AM
Apr 2014

It takes organizing. And working. And meeting good people and having fun doing it. Cynicism, apathy, failing to understand history and the struggles many have made before us - that get you nowhere, or even deeper in the hole. Thanks for this post.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
10. Not only is no one just going to hand us what we want
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 05:53 AM
Apr 2014

but there are those who are actively taking away from us what we've gained.

All the more reason to organize.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
13. 100%. Also, any organization will be an oligarchy to some extent.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 07:45 AM
Apr 2014

No matter what form, political control is always going to be in the hands of the people who spend their time fighting for it, and people who can convince others to follow them will wield more power. If you showed up to the OWS general assemblies (for example), you'd see the same thing.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
17. Exactly.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:16 AM
Apr 2014

Some people don't wait around to be convinced and then complain that others haven't done the work for them.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
22. No. Not really. After Lincoln and through JFK.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 03:54 PM
Apr 2014

Certainly, there were periods of time where the Wall Street barons had their way. Since Nov. 22, 1963, though, it's been all war, all the time. Thanks to Reaganomics, the biggest spoils in history are in the hands of the fewest and nastiest people.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
24. For most of the industrial revolution, it was up for grabs.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 04:43 PM
Apr 2014

The Oligarchy coincides with the end of American Imperialism.

Now what America has NOT been, traditionally, is a Plutocracy. We find ourselves living in a plutocrats paradise! All thanks to three huge entities - the M$M, the GOP and Wall Street.

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