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Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 05:48 AM Apr 2014

Studies show that most Americans reject facts when

Studies show that most Americans reject facts when they are confronted with them if those facts don’t reinforce their prejudices. Stories are a lot more effective, false or not, simplification or not.











Researchers discover a surprising threat to democracy: our brains




It’s one of the great assumptions underlying modern democracy that an informed citizenry is preferable to an uninformed one. “Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government,” Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1789. This notion, carried down through the years, underlies everything from humble political pamphlets to presidential debates to the very notion of a free press. Mankind may be crooked timber, as Kant put it, uniquely susceptible to ignorance and misinformation, but it’s an article of faith that knowledge is the best remedy. If people are furnished with the facts, they will be clearer thinkers and better citizens. If they are ignorant, facts will enlighten them. If they are mistaken, facts will set them straight.

In the end, truth will out. Won’t it?

Maybe not. Recently, a few political scientists have begun to discover a human tendency deeply discouraging to anyone with faith in the power of information. It’s this: Facts don’t necessarily have the power to change our minds. In fact, quite the opposite. In a series of studies in 2005 and 2006, researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds. In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs. Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger.

This bodes ill for a democracy, because most voters — the people making decisions about how the country runs — aren’t blank slates. They already have beliefs, and a set of facts lodged in their minds. The problem is that sometimes the things they think they know are objectively, provably false. And in the presence of the correct information, such people react very, very differently than the merely uninformed. Instead of changing their minds to reflect the correct information, they can entrench themselves even deeper.

“The general idea is that it’s absolutely threatening to admit you’re wrong,” says political scientist Brendan Nyhan, the lead researcher on the Michigan study. The phenomenon — known as “backfire” — is “a natural defense mechanism to avoid that cognitive dissonance.”

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/


Oligarchy anyone?
NSA/CIA Military industrial complex?
154 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Studies show that most Americans reject facts when (Original Post) Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 OP
like the birth certificate crap JI7 Apr 2014 #1
Or Jesus riding dinosaurs. ErikJ Apr 2014 #99
Oh yeah, because MOST of us believe that, right?..It's featured at Harvard whathehell Apr 2014 #132
Or many liberals and nuclear power. fbc Apr 2014 #115
No Enthusiast Apr 2014 #125
Just because someone sides with conservatives on a single issue like nuclear power... kristopher Apr 2014 #127
DU is full of paid RW sockpuppets. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #128
Unbelieving Is Hard cantbeserious Apr 2014 #2
Esp when some people haven't reached the age Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2014 #65
Yeah, but that's just science. I don't buy it. postulater Apr 2014 #3
My opinion is as valid as your facts. DetlefK Apr 2014 #5
The study speaks of a "human tendency"..it says nothing about Americans whathehell Apr 2014 #135
It's important to teach critical thinking skills to people when they're young. eShirl Apr 2014 #4
The only way we can solve Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #7
And if the problem is The2ndWheel Apr 2014 #11
Then I suggest we read Shakespeare again Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #12
Bullshit! Orrex Apr 2014 #6
Orrex....... Nay Apr 2014 #24
You beat me to it. LOL. GoneFishin Apr 2014 #31
The study never MENTIONS Americans..It talks about a "human tendency". whathehell Apr 2014 #87
Well. You certainly told me. Orrex Apr 2014 #88
I'm simply pointing out the facts.. whathehell Apr 2014 #90
But I didn't express an opinion one way or the other. Orrex Apr 2014 #91
Actually, you did.. whathehell Apr 2014 #93
Ah. Orrex Apr 2014 #94
I really enjoyed this subthread! IronLionZion Apr 2014 #105
Ah whathehell Apr 2014 #131
So, confronted with the fact that it's not that important to me... Orrex Apr 2014 #138
Um, no..You see, a possibility you don't seem to have entertained is whathehell Apr 2014 #146
Yet you continue to post replies to address my unimportant reaction. Orrex Apr 2014 #147
As you do mine... whathehell Apr 2014 #148
But I didn't insult you by questioning your importance Orrex Apr 2014 #150
No, you insulted me by labeling me whathehell Apr 2014 #152
Blame my phone for its profoujd typos Orrex Apr 2014 #153
Whatever, bro.. whathehell Apr 2014 #154
So how did you do the staircase of shrugs in #91? Would love to know progree Apr 2014 #124
Simple. I tilted my phone 45° while typing Orrex Apr 2014 #137
In other words, propaganda works n2doc Apr 2014 #8
Not necessarily. OnyxCollie Apr 2014 #121
"The best argument against democracy sailfla Apr 2014 #9
The best argument against democracy... JackRiddler Apr 2014 #29
Plus one! Enthusiast Apr 2014 #126
Fake quote. And is a nation better off WITHOUT a vote? nt alp227 Apr 2014 #83
the second best argument shaayecanaan Apr 2014 #123
Thank you...It's important to note that the OP's headline is misleading, as whathehell Apr 2014 #133
Excellent article, thanks for posting. madaboutharry Apr 2014 #10
It might be, but the subject line is entirely misleading..It says nothing about "Americans", only whathehell Apr 2014 #92
The study shows a Human tendency to reject facts, not an "American" one.. whathehell Apr 2014 #13
Wrong....All the studies were on Americans Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #14
None of this implies it's limited to Americans mythology Apr 2014 #16
A perfectly reasonable hypothethis, and further studies could be done controlled for nationality. eShirl Apr 2014 #20
Further studies could be done controlled for nationality, but as they have NOT been, whathehell Apr 2014 #134
Do your own study to Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #23
It's basic human psychology. You think you are exempt? KittyWampus Apr 2014 #34
Thank you Ms Science Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #37
No. It really is basic psychology. And it includes everyone. Look Up- Confirmation Bias KittyWampus Apr 2014 #40
Yes resistance is there Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #43
No, but it's not just limited to Americans. Lex Apr 2014 #61
So this is side thread Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #62
Your post proves the point about Confirmation Bias. Lex Apr 2014 #63
Seems somewhat petulant to ask that after replying with "Ms Science" LanternWaste Apr 2014 #78
The irony neffernin Apr 2014 #118
Your subject line is MISLEADING and you know it..The study says zero about Americans whathehell Apr 2014 #136
This subthread illustrates a big part of the problem - what's a fact? oldhippie Apr 2014 #50
I'm trusting the scientific process naturallyselected Apr 2014 #103
That's exactly what I was illustrating oldhippie Apr 2014 #109
From the standpoint of Exxon or the Koch brothers pscot Apr 2014 #111
Really? oldhippie Apr 2014 #112
Your position is that of a "climate change denier" kristopher Apr 2014 #129
Hey, it's my buddy kristopher ...... oldhippie Apr 2014 #139
The position is what the position is. kristopher Apr 2014 #140
Obstruct action? oldhippie Apr 2014 #141
You wrote the words, you own the position. kristopher Apr 2014 #142
Bye now .... oldhippie Apr 2014 #143
+1 kristopher Apr 2014 #145
Why are you being so rude? Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #81
The thing is, occasionally a study will find an assumption to be incorrect against all common sense. eShirl Apr 2014 #52
The excerpt you quote in the OP says this: Bluenorthwest Apr 2014 #45
Alert on me then Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #46
Thus illustrating the point you're making in the OP. n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #73
There are stupid Russians, South Koreans, French, South Africans, snooper2 Apr 2014 #54
As is the thread you nominated. Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #58
That was out of the blue.. snooper2 Apr 2014 #64
IN my travels I find Americans are about the least believers in conspiracy AngryAmish Apr 2014 #89
That's intriguing. If I were to produce a study from elsewhere, would that reinforce your belief? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #70
Her "assertions" are the simple facts of how a study is properly done, duh. whathehell Apr 2014 #149
News in the US besides the internet Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #30
Thank you. The study says NOTHING about "Americans" -- It speaks only of a human tendency whathehell Apr 2014 #84
Don't know much about research, do you?..Unless the study used 'control' groups of other ethnicities whathehell Apr 2014 #67
It is indeed very possible that this is a human trait and not specifically American gollygee Apr 2014 #25
Exactly, and I would disagree with the notion that whathehell Apr 2014 #71
absolutely florida08 Apr 2014 #15
Fact or fiction Augiedog Apr 2014 #17
We receive too much information and don't have the time to sort it all out. A Simple Game Apr 2014 #18
With Corporate control over the media, except the internet, truedelphi Apr 2014 #82
Fox News has made a living out of this NewJeffCT Apr 2014 #19
I think you are far to narrow in your perspective ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #21
Report speaks to many here miyazaki Apr 2014 #22
Especially the climate doomers..... AverageJoe90 Apr 2014 #97
Advertisers discovered this decades ago el_bryanto Apr 2014 #26
Sigmund Freud's cousin Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #32
I was thinking about the Man in the Hathaway Shirt el_bryanto Apr 2014 #38
Then the only thing I can think of to correct this... Neoma Apr 2014 #27
It is a human (not just American) trait (perhaps a weakness). NRaleighLiberal Apr 2014 #28
I suspect it is a function of biological intellect... Demo_Chris Apr 2014 #53
This applies to you as well. It applies to me. It applies to everyone. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #33
I accept your call out....give me a link Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #35
Call Out? LOL! It's a basic human condition. We all do it. It's called "Confirmation Bias". KittyWampus Apr 2014 #41
You said I was guilty of it Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #44
You are doing an excellent job proving it yourself. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #51
It is kind of delicious how he's illustrating Confirmation Bias Lex Apr 2014 #75
So true...And it's pretty apparent pipi_k Apr 2014 #56
After we rise up and force them to enact campaign finance reform and publicly funded elections Dustlawyer Apr 2014 #36
The Comcast merger is very dangerous Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #39
Religious faith is the root of the problem. tridim Apr 2014 #42
Maybe... pipi_k Apr 2014 #57
Agree with this and it applies to more than just Americans maddezmom Apr 2014 #47
I found this to be decidely true LondonReign2 Apr 2014 #48
This is definitely true... nyabingi Apr 2014 #49
We use the phrase "...but I could be wrong" a lot in my immediate family. factsarenotfair Apr 2014 #55
I think that phrase pipi_k Apr 2014 #60
:) It does work wonders in my family! factsarenotfair Apr 2014 #76
It's a human psychology trait, not just Americans. Lex Apr 2014 #59
The Agencies have been studying this for a long time hootinholler Apr 2014 #66
I'm always right ...except when I'm wrong ...but we won't go there. L0oniX Apr 2014 #68
Mistakes were made....but not by me! YoungDemCA Apr 2014 #69
Trayvon Martin, anyone? Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #72
OH BOY.... another study for the gullible! whistler162 Apr 2014 #74
Most Americans are fully conditioned propaganda responders Corruption Inc Apr 2014 #77
More than others?...You'll have to prove that because this study does not and doesn't even try to whathehell Apr 2014 #85
I guess you missed the part about "cognitive dissonance" Corruption Inc Apr 2014 #104
I guess whathehell Apr 2014 #130
I reached that conclusion a while ago. nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #79
You can't fix stupid n/t albino65 Apr 2014 #80
Will Rogers once said florida08 Apr 2014 #86
That about sums it up. mountain grammy Apr 2014 #114
The problem is that most misinformed people rarely pay any consequence at all... MrScorpio Apr 2014 #95
This may definitely be true for some, factually speaking..... AverageJoe90 Apr 2014 #96
There are those that don't want to think. They want to be told. Thor_MN Apr 2014 #98
DU, unfortunately, is void of science based posters, anymore. HuckleB Apr 2014 #100
I have even had that happen years ago here on DU bluestateguy Apr 2014 #101
especially when it comes to saying women are as human as men? MisterP Apr 2014 #102
See what you want to see. Hear what you want to hear. A trick as old as time itself. blkmusclmachine Apr 2014 #106
And that is why critical thinking skills are so desperately needed. Rex Apr 2014 #107
One of the many reasons why the RW has used polarization as a central strategy since wiggs Apr 2014 #108
There is plenty of incentive for paying attention to facts. JEFF9K Apr 2014 #110
Which is what we in the states call "Fox News". Initech Apr 2014 #113
Rigid Thinkers Can Become Bellicose, Belligerent Bullies . . . cer7711 Apr 2014 #116
So I noticed. I used to know someone like this before he died. n/t deafskeptic Apr 2014 #119
Republicans have know this for YEARS.... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2014 #117
A good example of how data gained from a study can be used as hyperbole... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #120
That kind of cuts both ways, doesn't it? ucrdem Apr 2014 #122
this is not a purely american phenomenon. nt La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #144
This piece covers the issue very well: The Science of Why We Don't Believe Science. HuckleB Apr 2014 #151
 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
99. Or Jesus riding dinosaurs.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 07:54 PM
Apr 2014

When they refuse to believe modern science there's not much hope for them.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
125. No
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 04:57 AM
Apr 2014

There are many valid reasons to be opposed to nuclear power.

Don't like liberals? Why are you here?

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
127. Just because someone sides with conservatives on a single issue like nuclear power...
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 05:42 AM
Apr 2014

...doesn't mean they aren't aligned with liberals on other issues.

But you are right on the meat of the matter - since we have a better system waiting to be built, the issues of cost, safety, waste, threat of nuclear weapons proliferation, time to deploy and the strengthening of the economic model that supports coal are all valid reasons for not embracing nuclear.

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
135. The study speaks of a "human tendency"..it says nothing about Americans
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 07:35 AM
Apr 2014

Since you're a stickler for science, you should note that the OP doesn't

seem to understand scientific method and thinks that simply because *

the study was done in America (without controls for other nationalities) that the

findings apply ONLY to Americans, a rather egregious error and a rather clumsy

attempt, it seems, to make the "facts" fit the agenda rather than the other way

around....I'm surprised so many DUers here are failing to notice...Perhaps it's

another confirmation of the study's conclusion.



* This is the explanation she gives in an early post.

eShirl

(18,488 posts)
4. It's important to teach critical thinking skills to people when they're young.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 06:20 AM
Apr 2014
Really teach so they retain the skill into adulthood, not just briefly go over it so they can pass the test on it, only forget about it as they move on to the next test preparation.

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
7. The only way we can solve
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 06:32 AM
Apr 2014



The only way we can solve the problems that mankind faces today — the global problems in highly connected and multi-layered political, social, economic and ecological networks — is to better understand and learn how to improve the systems that govern our lives.

The systems can be corrected but only
by through observation and analysis. Right now they are being observed as deficient serving the needs of the many vs the few.

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
11. And if the problem is
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 07:08 AM
Apr 2014

the highly connected, multi-layered political, social, economic, and ecological networks?

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
87. The study never MENTIONS Americans..It talks about a "human tendency".
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 03:13 PM
Apr 2014

No other ethnic groups were used as points of comparison, so I'm afraid one can't conclude this "human tendency"

to be limited to Americans. It seems quite a few here are a tad clueless when it comes to understanding basic

principles of the scientific method.

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
90. I'm simply pointing out the facts..
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 03:23 PM
Apr 2014

I wouldn't want to spoil any American's five minutes of self hate, or anything.

Orrex

(63,185 posts)
91. But I didn't express an opinion one way or the other.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 03:28 PM
Apr 2014

[font color=white]XXX [/font]
[font color=white]XXXXXX [/font]
[font color=white]XXXXXXXXX [/font]
[font color=white]XXXXXXXXXXXX [/font]

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
93. Actually, you did..
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 03:35 PM
Apr 2014

You called it "bullshit", and then said.."oh wait", which indicates you gave it another thought

and decided it was true.

* Nice little staircase of shrugs you've got there.


Orrex

(63,185 posts)
138. So, confronted with the fact that it's not that important to me...
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 08:25 AM
Apr 2014

You reject that fact because it contradicts your prejudice.


Interesting...

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
146. Um, no..You see, a possibility you don't seem to have entertained is
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:28 PM
Apr 2014

that your reaction is not that important to ME.

Orrex

(63,185 posts)
150. But I didn't insult you by questioning your importance
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 05:55 PM
Apr 2014

I find your discourse scintillating and profoujd. Who could resist the urge to reply?

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
152. No, you insulted me by labeling me
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 07:25 PM
Apr 2014

as "prejudiced".

So glad you find my discourse "scintillating and 'profoujd', but before responding

to it, you might try learning how to spell and/or use spell check.

Orrex

(63,185 posts)
153. Blame my phone for its profoujd typos
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 09:11 PM
Apr 2014

Last edited Thu Apr 17, 2014, 07:52 AM - Edit history (2)

And "prejudiced" came from the article in the OP, which we have already recognized to apply to Americans and non-Americans alike. It's only an insult if it's insulting to share a mental habit with so many.

progree

(10,901 posts)
124. So how did you do the staircase of shrugs in #91? Would love to know
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 04:26 AM
Apr 2014

Maintaining leading spaces would be a nice thing to know for lining things up. I know a way to line up tables, but EACH freaking line requires beginning with an obscenely long html code string DU-style:

{div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"}
and ending with {/font}{/div}

in above replace braces with square brackets symbols

making it possible to producing a table like this, all pretty-aligned:

Job Creation of record of post-WWII Presidents With Completed Presidencies, Plus Kennedy, Average Annual % Increases :

(Sorted from best to worst by average annual percentage increase in jobs. Republicans in red, Democrats in blue.

[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color= ] Average Average [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color= ] number of Jobs at Annual [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color= ] Jobs start of Percentage[/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color= ] Created Term Increase [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color= ] President Per Month Millions In Jobs [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color= ] ========= ========= ======== ======= [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=blue] Johnson 196,500 57.3 4.12% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=blue] Carter 215,396 80.7 3.20% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=blue] Truman 93,570 41.4 2.71% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=blue] Clinton 236,875 109.7 2.59% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=red ] Nixon 137,030 69.4 2.37% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=blue] Kennedy 105,059 53.7 2.35% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=red ] Reagan 167,729 91.0 2.21% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=red ] Ford 71,483 78.6 1.09% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=red ] Eisenhower 36,854 50.1 0.88% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=red ] G.H. Bush 54,021 107.1 0.61% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=red ] G.W. Bush 11,406 132.5 0.10% [/font]


but so bloated with html code to produce, and hard to get "straight". Just wondering if you can please share your trick. Thanks!


Orrex

(63,185 posts)
137. Simple. I tilted my phone 45° while typing
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 08:21 AM
Apr 2014

Other[font color="white"]xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[/font]mean.
[font color="white"]xxx[/font]than[font color="white"]xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[/font]you
[font color="white"]xxxxxx[/font]that,[font color="white"]xxxxxxxxxxx[/font]what
[font color="white"]xxxxxxxxxxx[/font]I[font color="white"]xxxxxxx[/font]know
[font color="white"]xxxxxxxxxxxxx[/font]don't
[font color="white"]xxxxxxxxxxxxx[/font]

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
121. Not necessarily.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:14 AM
Apr 2014

Propaganda analysis is not the same as mass media research for it incorporates much of what might be termed the psychology of ideology. Thus, other questions of interest include: How is propaganda passed through social networks and by means of socialization processes within the family? How do interpersonal processes like conformity, intrapsychic processes like dissonance reduction, communication processes like assimilation, and cognitive processes like primacy or recency effects combine to affect the response to propaganda? Is susceptibility to propaganda based on particular cognitive biases or logical errors?

Individual differences may also be important. Who is most affected by propaganda? Do personality variables or styles of cognitive processing affect susceptibility to propaganda? Ellul (1973) claims that contrary to popular belief, as a result of their increased exposure to propaganda, highly educated, well-informed citizens of modern societies are more, not less, open to propaganda than are people who receive less information. This hypothesis must be tested. Do some forms of information and education produce greater susceptibility to propaganda while others produce less?

This brings up an important question regarding the application of propaganda analysis: Is it possible to develop means of training people to recognize and resist propaganda? McGuire's work on innoculation against attitude change (1968) might lead us to be skeptical about this possibility but the ability of many fledgeling researchers to learn to recognize and avoid methodological errors such as the confusion of correlation and causation leads me to believe that people can be taught to resist propaganda. Much more work must be done on this question.

Silverstein, B. (1987). Toward a science of propaganda. Political Psychology, 8(1), pp. 53, 54.

sailfla

(239 posts)
9. "The best argument against democracy
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 07:02 AM
Apr 2014

is having a five minute conversation with the average voter"

Winston Churchill

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
29. The best argument against democracy...
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:48 AM
Apr 2014

is probably Winston Churchill himself. An architect of mass murder.

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
133. Thank you...It's important to note that the OP's headline is misleading, as
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 07:01 AM
Apr 2014

the study never mentions Americans, it speaks only of a "human" tendency.

this has been pointed out to her but I guess it doesn't fit her agenda.

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
92. It might be, but the subject line is entirely misleading..It says nothing about "Americans", only
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 03:29 PM
Apr 2014

a "human" tendency.

I pointed that out to the OP and she argued lamely that because the study was done on Americans

it is LIMITED to Americans, which suggests she hasn't a clue about the scientific method...Since there was no

'control' groups of other ethnicities, it's impossible to conclude that the study was limited to "Americans".

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
13. The study shows a Human tendency to reject facts, not an "American" one..
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 07:36 AM
Apr 2014

Please correct your subject line.

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
14. Wrong....All the studies were on Americans
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 07:42 AM
Apr 2014

A striking recent example was a study done in the year 2000, led by James Kuklinski of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. He led an influential experiment in which more than 1,000 Illinois residents were asked questions about welfare — the percentage of the federal budget spent on welfare, the number of people enrolled in the program, the percentage of enrollees who are black, and the average payout. More than half indicated that they were confident that their answers were correct — but in fact only 3 percent of the people got more than half of the questions right. Perhaps more disturbingly, the ones who were the most confident they were right were by and large the ones who knew the least about the topic. (Most of these participants expressed views that suggested a strong antiwelfare bias.)

Studies by other researchers have observed similar phenomena when addressing education, health care reform, immigration, affirmative action, gun control, and other issues that tend to attract strong partisan opinion. Kuklinski calls this sort of response the “I know I’m right” syndrome, and considers it a “potentially formidable problem” in a democratic system. “It implies not only that most people will resist correcting their factual beliefs,” he wrote, “but also that the very people who most need to correct them will be least likely to do so.”

What’s going on? How can we have things so wrong, and be so sure that we’re right? Part of the answer lies in the way our brains are wired. Generally, people tend to seek consistency. There is a substantial body of psychological research showing that people tend to interpret information with an eye toward reinforcing their preexisting views. If we believe something about the world, we are more likely to passively accept as truth any information that confirms our beliefs, and actively dismiss information that doesn’t. This is known as “motivated reasoning.” Whether or not the consistent information is accurate, we might accept it as fact, as confirmation of our beliefs. This makes us more confident in said beliefs, and even less likely to entertain facts that contradict them.

New research, published in the journal Political Behavior last month, suggests that once those facts — or “facts” — are internalized, they are very difficult to budge. In 2005, amid the strident calls for better media fact-checking in the wake of the Iraq war, Michigan’s Nyhan and a colleague devised an experiment in which participants were given mock news stories, each of which contained a provably false, though nonetheless widespread, claim made by a political figure: that there were WMDs found in Iraq (there weren’t), that the Bush tax cuts increased government revenues (revenues actually fell), and that the Bush administration imposed a total ban on stem cell research (only certain federal funding was restricted). Nyhan inserted a clear, direct correction after each piece of misinformation, and then measured the study participants to see if the correction took.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
16. None of this implies it's limited to Americans
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 07:59 AM
Apr 2014

I'm pretty sure that it would apply universally to all people. Look at the way that North Koreans were convinced that Kim Jong-il was a great leader in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

Or Hitler convincing so many Germans that the Jews were the cause of their problems post World War I.

eShirl

(18,488 posts)
20. A perfectly reasonable hypothethis, and further studies could be done controlled for nationality.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:13 AM
Apr 2014

Science is a great method for finding out stuff.

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
134. Further studies could be done controlled for nationality, but as they have NOT been,
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 07:17 AM
Apr 2014

I'm afraid it's status as a "reasonable" hypothesis is nothing but opinion

and doesn't redeem the fact that the OP's subject line is pure bullshit.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
34. It's basic human psychology. You think you are exempt?
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:58 AM
Apr 2014

It's called "Confirmation Bias". It isn't just Americans. And it is almost certainly hardwired into us.

The best we can do is find strategies to work around it.

But the first thing we'd have to do is admit we actually HAVE CONFIRMATION BIAS.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
40. No. It really is basic psychology. And it includes everyone. Look Up- Confirmation Bias
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 09:14 AM
Apr 2014

As the legendary philosopher John Locke once said: “New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common.”

snip

Another study helps understand why this is so. Kevin Dunbar and Jonathan Fugelsanj, researchers from Dartmouth College, have discovered that a resistance to new information may actually be hardwired into our brains. When confronted with dissonant data that contradicts what we expect to see, even trained scientists appear to reject information that goes against their assumptions about how the world works.

http://noetic.org/blog/rejecting-uncommon-beliefs-how-worldview-shapes-ou/

Lex

(34,108 posts)
61. No, but it's not just limited to Americans.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:41 AM
Apr 2014

Maybe that particular study was, but Confirmation Bias is a human psychology trait.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
78. Seems somewhat petulant to ask that after replying with "Ms Science"
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 01:22 PM
Apr 2014

"So this is side thread for personal attacks..."

Seems somewhat petulant to ask that after replying with "Ms Science" to trivialize the post of another, (insert disingenuous rationalization here to validate that your labeling was simply accuracy and civility at its finest rather than what it really was).

However, I do realize that holding others to a higher standard is convenient...

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
136. Your subject line is MISLEADING and you know it..The study says zero about Americans
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 07:42 AM
Apr 2014

Yours is an embarrassingly obvious example of trying to make the facts fit your agenda.

 

oldhippie

(3,249 posts)
50. This subthread illustrates a big part of the problem - what's a fact?
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 09:58 AM
Apr 2014

Facts are different things to different people. You certainly won't get agreement as to the definition of a "fact" here on DU.

To me a fact is either something that I can verify with my own senses (like gravity causing a dropped book to fall on my toe) or something told to me by someone I trust. And that is the big problem. Different people will trust different sources. I might trust Neil DeGrasse Tyson when he tells me something about the Cosmos as a fact. I might trust Anderson Cooper telling me something is a fact. I won't trust Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter telling me something is a fact.

Take, for example, man caused global climate change. Many people claim that it is a "fact". Why? Because a number of scientists and others that they trust have agreed so. But not everyone. Who do you trust? The majority consensus? Well, it turns out that if you go back in history you can find many examples of where the consensus opinion of something was, in fact, not a "fact". But it may have been the consensus of opinion of the clergy, which were the *trusted* sources of the time. I have no problem *believing* (another problematic word) in global climate change, as I believe the climate is always changing. It has to. But man caused? WEll, maybe, maybe not. Some say yes, some say no. And I don't know which group to trust as I feel each has an agenda or a desired outcome. So I cannot find a "fact" there yet. Maybe someday I'll find a reason to trust one side or the other.

I am very selective and skeptical as to my acceptance of "facts". Way too many here confuse fact, belief, and opinion. Be careful out there.

103. I'm trusting the scientific process
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:33 PM
Apr 2014

A consensus among clergy about scientific matters is not the same as a scientific consensus. If there are hundreds of peer-reviewed scientific studies, and 97% of them agree that climate change is caused by human activity, it doesn't matter if you or I accept it, it's still a fact. This isn't a "number" of scientists, or a "consensus opinion"; this is a huge body of scientific research.

The problem with not accepting the scientific consensus is that it is very difficult to legislate or promote any kind of corrective action if there are huge segments of the public and politicians that refuse to trust the scientific process because of their preconceptions and prejudices.

The idea that scientific consensus has sometimes been discovered to be wrong is a notion that I commonly see in the popular literature, and less commonly even here at DU. But I can't think of any examples of this when there is anything like the massive body of research that demonstrates that climate change is caused by human activity. In this case, I agree with the study you cite - it is only prejudices and preconceptions that keep people from accepting scientific fact. Any objective analysis will result in the conclusion that the data are undeniable.

What agenda is involved in accepting this? Trust in the scientific process? Some desire that the conclusion that climate change is caused by human activity be true? I would be extremely happy for this conclusion to be wrong; then there would be some hope the natural cycle would swing back before catastrophe. But my desire for this change to just be a temporary natural swing doesn't change the well-established scientific fact that climate change has been fueled by human activity.

 

oldhippie

(3,249 posts)
109. That's exactly what I was illustrating
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 09:16 PM
Apr 2014

To you, it's a fact, because the vast majority of scientists seem to agree, and you trust or believe them.

To me, it's a very widely accepted theory. To be a fact to me, I would need to see evidence that I trust. Sure, those 97% of scientists have lots of evidence and peer reviewed studies. But I don't yet trust them or the evidence that they use. So, to me, it's not a "fact." I'm not sure I will ever believe one way or the other.

That's why we have differing opinions as to the facts. (And, of course, anyone who doesn't think a I do is wrong.)

pscot

(21,024 posts)
111. From the standpoint of Exxon or the Koch brothers
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:12 PM
Apr 2014

your skepticism is very useful . If Climate change isn't manmade, there's no need to limit consumption of fossil fuels and we can just go on as we've been going. No worries, eh? But unless you have some other viable hypothesis to explain global warming, you're just another climate change denier in sheep's clothing.

 

oldhippie

(3,249 posts)
112. Really?
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:34 PM
Apr 2014
But unless you have some other viable hypothesis to explain global warming, you're just another climate change denier in sheep's clothing.


No where do I deny climate change, so I think calling me a climate change denier is untrue and could almost be considered an ad hominem attack. I sincerely believe the climate is changing. To me it's a fact.

I'll even go so far as to say that I think it is probably (i.e. a high probability) anthropogenic, but that hasn't reached the criteria for "fact" by my definition. But I'd be willing to bet money on it.

And I do think there is a need to limit consumption of fossil fuels. And it WILL happen. One way or another.

And no, I don't need some other viable hypothesis to explain global climate change. Not my job. But the Second Law of Thermodynamics also works fine for me.

Oh, and I don't really give a rat's patootie about what is useful to Exxon or the Koch brothers. Skepticism is usually probably (there's that word again) useful to somebody.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
129. Your position is that of a "climate change denier"
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 05:57 AM
Apr 2014

You are trying to use a standard climate denier dodge when you say you think the climate is changing because climate is always changing, but that you don't buy into the anthropogenic aspect of it.

I guess that explains why you spend so much time disparaging renewable energy sources.

 

oldhippie

(3,249 posts)
139. Hey, it's my buddy kristopher ......
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 09:53 AM
Apr 2014

Hey man, seems I haven't seen you around much since you got booted out of the Environment & Energy Group. I've really been missing you over there, it seems so civilized now.

Anyway, thanks for telling me my position. And here I thought I was pretty clear with, "I'll even go so far as to say that I think it is probably (i.e. a high probability) anthropogenic, but that hasn't reached the criteria for "fact" by my definition. But I'd be willing to bet money on it." I will now go and re-evaluate my position.

I guess that explains why you spend so much time disparaging renewable energy sources.


Yeah, that's what I do while working as a consultant in photovoltaic systems for businesses and residences, serving on a regional government sustainability group pushing for energy conservation and alternative energy sources, and volunteering for the Texas Solar Energy Society.

Gee, I just can't understand why you got kicked out of the E&E group. But it's good to see you around here continuing your cause.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
140. The position is what the position is.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 01:29 PM
Apr 2014

You presented it yourself; no one put the words in your mouth. It is a standard retrenchment position for climate deniers who are unable to deny the evidence any longer but still want to obstruct action.

 

oldhippie

(3,249 posts)
141. Obstruct action?
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 01:40 PM
Apr 2014

Yeah, I know, anyone and everyone that does not 100% share, agree with and advocate for action on your favorite issues is an obstructionist. That's maybe what got kinda old over at the E&E group.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
142. You wrote the words, you own the position.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:03 PM
Apr 2014

And the position is that of a climate change denier.

Climate change denial is a set of organized attempts to downplay, deny or dismiss the scientific consensus on the extent of global warming, its significance, and its connection to human behavior, especially for commercial or ideological reasons. Typically, these attempts take the rhetorical form of legitimate scientific debate, while not adhering to the actual principles of that debate. Climate change denial has been associated with the fossil fuels lobby, industry advocates and free market think tanks, often in the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial


...deny or dismiss the scientific consensus....

...its connection to human behavior...

...especially for commercial or ideological reasons...



 

oldhippie

(3,249 posts)
143. Bye now ....
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:10 PM
Apr 2014

As I keep having to re-learn, trying to discuss things with you is a time wasting activity. Back to ignore with you.

eShirl

(18,488 posts)
52. The thing is, occasionally a study will find an assumption to be incorrect against all common sense.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:08 AM
Apr 2014

Then the challenge is to do more studies, to see whether the results agree with the first study. Because you can't just go with the results of one study alone, as there could be any number of intentional or unintentional flaws.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
45. The excerpt you quote in the OP says this:
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 09:30 AM
Apr 2014

"Recently, a few political scientists have begun to discover a human tendency....."
A human tendency, not a national tendency.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
54. There are stupid Russians, South Koreans, French, South Africans,
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:11 AM
Apr 2014

Different woo and conspiracy theories same lack of critical thinking

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
58. As is the thread you nominated.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:36 AM
Apr 2014

Journalist Tom Ricks 'Beginning To Believe The Worst' About Greenwald And Snowden

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
89. IN my travels I find Americans are about the least believers in conspiracy
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 03:17 PM
Apr 2014

I think part of this is political dissidents are not routinely jailed.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
70. That's intriguing. If I were to produce a study from elsewhere, would that reinforce your belief?
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 11:30 AM
Apr 2014

There's nothing about any of these studies which offer any explanation of why americans should be comparatively illogical.

In fact, it's interesting that americans thought about the issue enough to ask the question.

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
149. Her "assertions" are the simple facts of how a study is properly done, duh.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 05:38 PM
Apr 2014

Without controls for other nationalities, one can simply NOT jump to the

conclusion that this is a trait limited to Americans.

Sorry, dear, but most here are knowledgeable enough to understand

the basics of scientific methodology. I'm sorry that you are not.





Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
30. News in the US besides the internet
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:48 AM
Apr 2014

which is international makes the US citizens more susceptible to this than other western countries.

We don't rank high on the scale of
press freedom.

We rank 46th
https://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php

Hey its better than North Korea

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
84. Thank you. The study says NOTHING about "Americans" -- It speaks only of a human tendency
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 02:56 PM
Apr 2014

As I pointed out to the OP, unless a 'control' group of OTHER ethnicities were included, it can't in any way

limit this to Americans -- She's ignoring that fact (guess it doesn't fit her narrative) and is still trying to advance

this falsehood, though anyone familiar with scientific methodology should be able to see it for what it is.

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
67. Don't know much about research, do you?..Unless the study used 'control' groups of other ethnicities
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 11:23 AM
Apr 2014

as points of comparison, the study can NOT conclude it to be a trait that applies to Americans only.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
25. It is indeed very possible that this is a human trait and not specifically American
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:32 AM
Apr 2014

however the study only included Americans, so the subject line is correct about what the study showed. You'd need a study to prove the hypothesis that it applies beyond Americans, though I agree it's likely.

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
71. Exactly, and I would disagree with the notion that
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 11:30 AM
Apr 2014

it is MY responsibility to come up with a study to prove that it goes BEYOND Americans, it was the OP's

duty to report WHAT the study found, which was that it is a HUMAN tendency to avoid facts and it

should have been reported that way....The OP seems a little short on knowledge of research protocols. As her

other post indicates, she thinks if it's done on Americans (or Finns or Laplanders) she thinks those are the only

groups to whom the conclusion could apply.

florida08

(4,106 posts)
15. absolutely
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 07:55 AM
Apr 2014

As a nation we can no longer tell the distinction between fact and fiction. Like the line in the movie The Shooter, Ned Beatty playing a corrupt senator says "the truth is what I say it is". That is now the norm. It's the outward sign of a societal breakdown which is headed for a collapse because pride is more important than truth.

"“You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.” Patrick Moynihan

Augiedog

(2,544 posts)
17. Fact or fiction
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:03 AM
Apr 2014

Facts cost money, propaganda is free. The German populace during WW II living near concentration/death camps were in denial about what was occurring in their immediate area, even when confronted with the evidence.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
18. We receive too much information and don't have the time to sort it all out.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:10 AM
Apr 2014
“Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government,” Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1789.


Maybe part of the problem is we aren't "well-informed", we are over-informed, most of which is equal to being ill-informed.

But why should I believe your facts when I have a perfectly good set of facts already? And in politics it is possible for two conflicting sets of facts to be true. This is not simple black and white, politics has many shades of gray. Often both sides of an argument can and do provide examples to support their positions.

Science also has this problem, high cholesterol levels are bad but some of the healthiest peoples in the world have high cholesterol levels. Coffee is bad for you, no it isn't, eggs are bad for you, no they aren't, and both sides of the arguments have proof.

Facts really aren't what they used to be.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
82. With Corporate control over the media, except the internet,
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 01:54 PM
Apr 2014

Facts are not even facts.

I was the first person who was published on the West Coast on the dangers of MTBE. (A risky gas additive added to gasoline, in order to prop up corporate profits. Except the headlines told us it was good for the environment.)

What I learned was that the Major Media folks stalled on telling the story. Their articles came in months later than the small indie newspaper where I had my article published.

Then they got some of the facts wrong.

Finally Gov Davis sacrificed his politic career for the sake of putting together a panel of researchers who could use science to determine the product's safety or lack of safety. His "Blue Ribbon Panel" Found that MTBE ranked up there with mercury, benzene and formaldehyde in terms of being dangerously toxic.

The headlines however said the exact opposite. Yes, in an article attributed to the Associated Press, John Froines, who headed the panel, was quoted as saying that the product was not carcinogenic, and that people could relax and use it.

He actually said the exact opposite!

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
21. I think you are far to narrow in your perspective ...
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:14 AM
Apr 2014

the phenomena applies more than equally to perceptions/criticisms of President Obama. No one, here, denies/argues against the presence of an impending, if not actual, oligarchy, or the evils of the NSA/MIC; but there is plenty of denial regarding President Obama's successes and/or support of the American working class.

miyazaki

(2,239 posts)
22. Report speaks to many here
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:22 AM
Apr 2014

-especially to quite a few poor suckers in the E & E group who wouldn't swallow a fact if
every Nobel winning scientist shoved it down their throat.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
97. Especially the climate doomers.....
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 07:42 PM
Apr 2014

who look at every Chicken Little doomsday piece written by Guy McPherson, et al., or anything else that they think will support their worldview, and they'll take it and run with it, no matter how flawed or even totally un-factual it may be.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
26. Advertisers discovered this decades ago
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:36 AM
Apr 2014

If you watch the early commercials or read magazine ads from back in the day - they are 100% informative. They they realized that a guy in an eyepatch sold more shirts than articles talking about custom fitting or thread count. So they stopped informing and started with the advertisements we have now, that are less about convincing you their product is good, and more about convincing you you are the sort of person that buys their product.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm a fun loving guy who likes to have fun, and apparently that means I eat at TGI Fridays.

Bryant

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
38. I was thinking about the Man in the Hathaway Shirt
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 09:02 AM
Apr 2014

which was in 1951 - about the same time I guess.



Doesn't look like much now but it sold the hell out of Hathaway Shirts.

Bryant

NRaleighLiberal

(60,013 posts)
28. It is a human (not just American) trait (perhaps a weakness).
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:43 AM
Apr 2014

When I taught Lean Sigma at my former job, we did a section on Paradigms - models for describing what we see. It talked about how even highly educated scientists disregard data if it falls outside of what they expect it to tell. I suspect there is some evolutionary necessity, at least at some point, for the tendency to put on the blinders, to filter what we see and read and block out information that cuts against our own personal belief systems.

Those who are described as cynical - or at least skeptical - are probably trying to work against such a human bias. But cynicism, taken to an extreme, can also eat one up from the inside, lead to bitterness, and disillusionment. Certainly, many of us here at DU, on particular topics, experience this. I know I do.

The tendency is actually why we refuse to watch or expose ourselves to ads - we try to think things through, and not accept much of anything at face value without processing it first. But, of course, that very processing is likely biased.

Those to use this to their advantage - corporations, political messaging - have a very powerful tool that is tough to fight - but fight it we must.

It reminds me of something I heard Bill Moyers say years ago - that a person's personal belief system carries far more weight than the truth.

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
53. I suspect it is a function of biological intellect...
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:10 AM
Apr 2014

Confirmation Bias, which is all this is, perhaps allows animals the ability to make FAST decisions about situations that would, in the real world, rarely present identical factors.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
51. You are doing an excellent job proving it yourself.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:06 AM
Apr 2014

It's almost as if you've moved on to performance art.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
56. So true...And it's pretty apparent
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:27 AM
Apr 2014

just from reading DU, where one person's set of "facts" can be, and often is, countered by another person's set of "facts".

And I have facts written in quotation marks because I don't know of too many issues that are written in stone without an opposing set of facts to totally refute the first set of facts.

People will just keep finding facts to support their own points of view...or prejudices.


The two (or more) groups will argue with each other, and then go after people who jump in with anecdotal evidence, as if none of it matters except for their own set of "facts".


Seeing it happen here on DU on a regular basis is both frustrating and entertaining...


Dustlawyer

(10,494 posts)
36. After we rise up and force them to enact campaign finance reform and publicly funded elections
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:59 AM
Apr 2014

(I wish), we need to fix the FCC and make news rooms report news like they used to when Cronkite was anchor, separate from the entertainment side, maybe we can get the new generations off to the right start! Fox News is brainwashing propaganda designed to benefit the 1%! I say gut them like a fish!

tridim

(45,358 posts)
42. Religious faith is the root of the problem.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 09:22 AM
Apr 2014

People are trained for years to reject reality with their big book of non-facts.

Once that is ingrained, it's easy to get people to believe anything you tell them. Faux Newz knows this.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
57. Maybe...
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:30 AM
Apr 2014

then again, maybe not.

I've seen the same thing happen right here at DU, between people who make no claim to any religion at all.


If someone wants to believe badly enough, he'll just keep arguing his own POV, no matter what facts someone wants to throw at him from the other side of the issue.

maddezmom

(135,060 posts)
47. Agree with this and it applies to more than just Americans
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 09:38 AM
Apr 2014

It is confirmation bias and everyone uses it, IMO.

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
48. I found this to be decidely true
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 09:40 AM
Apr 2014

when arguing with right wingers on the old Yahoo boards. No facts could make the slightest impact on what they WANTED TO BELIEVE the truth was.

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
49. This is definitely true...
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 09:42 AM
Apr 2014

...in many instances, not just the political. I think the fear of being wrong is the greatest impediment to people correcting their misconceptions, and that fear is probably more a personality quirk that needs more than straight facts to diminish it. The fear of cognitive dissonance is really strong when the facts go against deeply-held beliefs (e.g., religion), especially if contrary facts threaten to upset that person's basic mental framework. Question the sanity of someone's religious belief and you might have a physical confrontation on your hands!

If someone believes, to the core of their being, the US is essentially a force for good in the world (i.e., we intervene in other countries for humanitarian reasons or to uphold our belief in the goodness of democracy) and all of our actions have benevolent intentions, then they are going to fight tooth-and-nail to make that belief stick no matter what you say to them.

I'll admit to not believing in the official narrative of the 9/11 events (and no, I'm not some disciple of Alex Jones), yet I don't waste time relaying the facts of it anymore because to them, the thought of our own government being a party to something that horrible is frightening and their reaction is similar to me telling them Jesus didn't exist - fightin' words!

No one should be afraid to admit they're wrong about anything, and I personally feel gratitude towards someone who can correct my errors lol.

factsarenotfair

(910 posts)
55. We use the phrase "...but I could be wrong" a lot in my immediate family.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:23 AM
Apr 2014

It's actually comforting once you get used to it and makes family relationships work much better. However, I think that if any politician ever uttered those words, it would be the end of his or her career.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
60. I think that phrase
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:40 AM
Apr 2014

could go a long way toward reducing family conflict. Maybe even between non-family as well.

Nothing is more annoying (and resentment inducing) than for some know-it-all to impart his superior knowledge (and only valid "facts&quot on the unwashed and ignorant peasants around him.

Like the Great Wizard of Oz.



But I could be wrong...

factsarenotfair

(910 posts)
76. :) It does work wonders in my family!
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 12:25 PM
Apr 2014

Outside of my family and in business I have to seem like I "know it all" without an obnoxious attitude. LOL

Lex

(34,108 posts)
59. It's a human psychology trait, not just Americans.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:40 AM
Apr 2014
“The general idea is that it’s absolutely threatening to admit you’re wrong,”


It's called "Confirmation Bias."





hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
66. The Agencies have been studying this for a long time
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 11:19 AM
Apr 2014

I'm certain of that without specific documentation.

The Republicans have been leveraging this for a long time also.

Again an assertion without specific documentation.

 

Corruption Inc

(1,568 posts)
77. Most Americans are fully conditioned propaganda responders
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 01:13 PM
Apr 2014

They're all on the internet too, as long as they make "Sense" to the people who want to hear their propaganda.

It doesn't matter how many times they are told the truth, although past research has shown that a minimum of 5 times is necessary to begin the process of reversing the brainwashing.

It's not just the CIA or intelligence agencies, it's all government and corporate interests, they've been successfully propagandizing for more than 100 years.

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
85. More than others?...You'll have to prove that because this study does not and doesn't even try to
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 03:06 PM
Apr 2014

It doesn't even mention "Americans", only a "human" tendency.

No other ethnicities were used as points of comparison, so I'm afraid your contention, along with the OP's

is just more knee-jerk anti-American trash talk.

whathehell

(29,050 posts)
130. I guess
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 06:50 AM
Apr 2014

you're talking out of your ass...Does that "hurt" much?


P.S. I knew what cognitive dissonance was when you were pissing in your diapers.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
79. I reached that conclusion a while ago.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 01:24 PM
Apr 2014

Confirmation bias is far more powerful than "facts". I use quotation marks since facts really don't matter.

MrScorpio

(73,630 posts)
95. The problem is that most misinformed people rarely pay any consequence at all...
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 04:08 PM
Apr 2014

For their belief in misinformation. Basically, folks like that bathe in a sea of their own hypocrisy and never pay any price for it at all.

It's a complete absence of responsibility that's the main fault, as misinformed folks are allowed to have their fantasies mitigated those of us who are actually informed.

This pretty much explains anyone who's either a so-called Libertarian or any of those fetus worshippers out there. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024371650

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
96. This may definitely be true for some, factually speaking.....
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 07:38 PM
Apr 2014

But in that same vein, it's not exactly universal, either.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
98. There are those that don't want to think. They want to be told.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 07:47 PM
Apr 2014

They believe there is only wrong and right, that there are no partial solutions. Facts don't matter, what they heard from their sources HAS to be the truth.

In the vast majority of cases, Republican be thy name.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
100. DU, unfortunately, is void of science based posters, anymore.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 07:59 PM
Apr 2014

Not only that, the anti-science folks use the system to kill science based information.

I used to think was a wonderful page, but the administrators have let it go to shit. That sucks for all people.

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
101. I have even had that happen years ago here on DU
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:27 PM
Apr 2014

Where I put together a carefully research-oriented, factual and extensive post, but because it went against certain people's political agendas, I was responded to with a torrent of "Bullshit!" and other angry and abuse replies questioning my motives and calling me soft on Bush.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
107. And that is why critical thinking skills are so desperately needed.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 08:54 PM
Apr 2014

And so poorly lacking in some.

wiggs

(7,811 posts)
108. One of the many reasons why the RW has used polarization as a central strategy since
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 09:03 PM
Apr 2014

the 60s. The more their base feels associated with their 'team' against other teams...the easier it is to reject facts that threaten their association, their club.

Makes sense. I know a very smart guy who associates with the Tea Party but will not change his mind when his 'facts' are debunked. The hate, messaging, fear, world view that he has developed along with his friends crowds out reason. It would be a major identity crisis for him to rethink his positions.

cer7711

(502 posts)
116. Rigid Thinkers Can Become Bellicose, Belligerent Bullies . . .
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 12:30 AM
Apr 2014

Last edited Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:07 AM - Edit history (2)

. . . in an instant when confronted with verifiable, objective facts that threaten their paradigmatic view of self and reality.

Backfire, indeed!

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
117. Republicans have know this for YEARS....
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 12:55 AM
Apr 2014

They have taken it to the point where they actually believe you can VOTE for the reality of your choice.

yawnmaster

(2,812 posts)
120. A good example of how data gained from a study can be used as hyperbole...
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 01:46 AM
Apr 2014

as stated in the article...
"There is a substantial body of psychological research showing that people tend to interpret information with an eye toward reinforcing their preexisting views."

People.

yes, the study was done with Americans, but research has supported that this is a human trait.

Putting the focus on "Americans" is hyperbole.

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