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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsStudies show that most Americans reject facts when
Studies show that most Americans reject facts when they are confronted with them if those facts dont reinforce their prejudices. Stories are a lot more effective, false or not, simplification or not.Researchers discover a surprising threat to democracy: our brains
Its one of the great assumptions underlying modern democracy that an informed citizenry is preferable to an uninformed one. Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government, Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1789. This notion, carried down through the years, underlies everything from humble political pamphlets to presidential debates to the very notion of a free press. Mankind may be crooked timber, as Kant put it, uniquely susceptible to ignorance and misinformation, but its an article of faith that knowledge is the best remedy. If people are furnished with the facts, they will be clearer thinkers and better citizens. If they are ignorant, facts will enlighten them. If they are mistaken, facts will set them straight.
In the end, truth will out. Wont it?
Maybe not. Recently, a few political scientists have begun to discover a human tendency deeply discouraging to anyone with faith in the power of information. Its this: Facts dont necessarily have the power to change our minds. In fact, quite the opposite. In a series of studies in 2005 and 2006, researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds. In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs. Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger.
This bodes ill for a democracy, because most voters the people making decisions about how the country runs arent blank slates. They already have beliefs, and a set of facts lodged in their minds. The problem is that sometimes the things they think they know are objectively, provably false. And in the presence of the correct information, such people react very, very differently than the merely uninformed. Instead of changing their minds to reflect the correct information, they can entrench themselves even deeper.
The general idea is that its absolutely threatening to admit youre wrong, says political scientist Brendan Nyhan, the lead researcher on the Michigan study. The phenomenon known as backfire is a natural defense mechanism to avoid that cognitive dissonance.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/
Oligarchy anyone?
NSA/CIA Military industrial complex?
JI7
(89,244 posts)ErikJ
(6,335 posts)When they refuse to believe modern science there's not much hope for them.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)and Yale.
fbc
(1,668 posts)There are many valid reasons to be opposed to nuclear power.
Don't like liberals? Why are you here?
kristopher
(29,798 posts)...doesn't mean they aren't aligned with liberals on other issues.
But you are right on the meat of the matter - since we have a better system waiting to be built, the issues of cost, safety, waste, threat of nuclear weapons proliferation, time to deploy and the strengthening of the economic model that supports coal are all valid reasons for not embracing nuclear.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Look around. Read their absurd assertions.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,399 posts)of not believing......
postulater
(5,075 posts)DetlefK
(16,423 posts)whathehell
(29,050 posts)Since you're a stickler for science, you should note that the OP doesn't
seem to understand scientific method and thinks that simply because *
the study was done in America (without controls for other nationalities) that the
findings apply ONLY to Americans, a rather egregious error and a rather clumsy
attempt, it seems, to make the "facts" fit the agenda rather than the other way
around....I'm surprised so many DUers here are failing to notice...Perhaps it's
another confirmation of the study's conclusion.
* This is the explanation she gives in an early post.
eShirl
(18,488 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)The only way we can solve the problems that mankind faces today the global problems in highly connected and multi-layered political, social, economic and ecological networks is to better understand and learn how to improve the systems that govern our lives.
The systems can be corrected but only
by through observation and analysis. Right now they are being observed as deficient serving the needs of the many vs the few.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)the highly connected, multi-layered political, social, economic, and ecological networks?
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Henry VI, part 2 | Act 4,
LOL.....just kidding.
Orrex
(63,185 posts)Oh, wait a minute...
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)whathehell
(29,050 posts)No other ethnic groups were used as points of comparison, so I'm afraid one can't conclude this "human tendency"
to be limited to Americans. It seems quite a few here are a tad clueless when it comes to understanding basic
principles of the scientific method.
Orrex
(63,185 posts)whathehell
(29,050 posts)I wouldn't want to spoil any American's five minutes of self hate, or anything.
Orrex
(63,185 posts)[font color=white]XXX [/font]
[font color=white]XXXXXX [/font]
[font color=white]XXXXXXXXX [/font]
[font color=white]XXXXXXXXXXXX [/font]
whathehell
(29,050 posts)You called it "bullshit", and then said.."oh wait", which indicates you gave it another thought
and decided it was true.
* Nice little staircase of shrugs you've got there.
I meant it as pure snark, to be honest, but I can see how it came across as you read it.
IronLionZion
(45,403 posts)Yeah, whatever.
Orrex
(63,185 posts)You reject that fact because it contradicts your prejudice.
Interesting...
whathehell
(29,050 posts)that your reaction is not that important to ME.
Orrex
(63,185 posts)Hmm.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)Hmm.
Orrex
(63,185 posts)I find your discourse scintillating and profoujd. Who could resist the urge to reply?
whathehell
(29,050 posts)as "prejudiced".
So glad you find my discourse "scintillating and 'profoujd', but before responding
to it, you might try learning how to spell and/or use spell check.
Orrex
(63,185 posts)Last edited Thu Apr 17, 2014, 07:52 AM - Edit history (2)
And "prejudiced" came from the article in the OP, which we have already recognized to apply to Americans and non-Americans alike. It's only an insult if it's insulting to share a mental habit with so many.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)whatever.
progree
(10,901 posts)Maintaining leading spaces would be a nice thing to know for lining things up. I know a way to line up tables, but EACH freaking line requires beginning with an obscenely long html code string DU-style:
{div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"}
and ending with {/font}{/div}
in above replace braces with square brackets symbols
making it possible to producing a table like this, all pretty-aligned:
Job Creation of record of post-WWII Presidents With Completed Presidencies, Plus Kennedy, Average Annual % Increases :
(Sorted from best to worst by average annual percentage increase in jobs. Republicans in red, Democrats in blue.
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color= ] Average Average [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color= ] number of Jobs at Annual [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color= ] Jobs start of Percentage[/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color= ] Created Term Increase [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color= ] President Per Month Millions In Jobs [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color= ] ========= ========= ======== ======= [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=blue] Johnson 196,500 57.3 4.12% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=blue] Carter 215,396 80.7 3.20% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=blue] Truman 93,570 41.4 2.71% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=blue] Clinton 236,875 109.7 2.59% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=red ] Nixon 137,030 69.4 2.37% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=blue] Kennedy 105,059 53.7 2.35% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=red ] Reagan 167,729 91.0 2.21% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=red ] Ford 71,483 78.6 1.09% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=red ] Eisenhower 36,854 50.1 0.88% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=red ] G.H. Bush 54,021 107.1 0.61% [/font]
[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.37em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"][font color=red ] G.W. Bush 11,406 132.5 0.10% [/font]
but so bloated with html code to produce, and hard to get "straight". Just wondering if you can please share your trick. Thanks!
Orrex
(63,185 posts)Other[font color="white"]xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[/font]mean.
[font color="white"]xxx[/font]than[font color="white"]xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[/font]you
[font color="white"]xxxxxx[/font]that,[font color="white"]xxxxxxxxxxx[/font]what
[font color="white"]xxxxxxxxxxx[/font]I[font color="white"]xxxxxxx[/font]know
[font color="white"]xxxxxxxxxxxxx[/font]don't
[font color="white"]xxxxxxxxxxxxx[/font]
n2doc
(47,953 posts)And it works best on ignorant, uneducated people.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)Propaganda analysis is not the same as mass media research for it incorporates much of what might be termed the psychology of ideology. Thus, other questions of interest include: How is propaganda passed through social networks and by means of socialization processes within the family? How do interpersonal processes like conformity, intrapsychic processes like dissonance reduction, communication processes like assimilation, and cognitive processes like primacy or recency effects combine to affect the response to propaganda? Is susceptibility to propaganda based on particular cognitive biases or logical errors?
Individual differences may also be important. Who is most affected by propaganda? Do personality variables or styles of cognitive processing affect susceptibility to propaganda? Ellul (1973) claims that contrary to popular belief, as a result of their increased exposure to propaganda, highly educated, well-informed citizens of modern societies are more, not less, open to propaganda than are people who receive less information. This hypothesis must be tested. Do some forms of information and education produce greater susceptibility to propaganda while others produce less?
This brings up an important question regarding the application of propaganda analysis: Is it possible to develop means of training people to recognize and resist propaganda? McGuire's work on innoculation against attitude change (1968) might lead us to be skeptical about this possibility but the ability of many fledgeling researchers to learn to recognize and avoid methodological errors such as the confusion of correlation and causation leads me to believe that people can be taught to resist propaganda. Much more work must be done on this question.
Silverstein, B. (1987). Toward a science of propaganda. Political Psychology, 8(1), pp. 53, 54.
sailfla
(239 posts)is having a five minute conversation with the average voter"
Winston Churchill
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)is probably Winston Churchill himself. An architect of mass murder.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Strange that we receive Winston Churchill quotes on DU. Can Reagan quotes be far behind?
alp227
(32,013 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)is a five minute conversation with the average MP.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)the study never mentions Americans, it speaks only of a "human" tendency.
this has been pointed out to her but I guess it doesn't fit her agenda.
madaboutharry
(40,199 posts)whathehell
(29,050 posts)a "human" tendency.
I pointed that out to the OP and she argued lamely that because the study was done on Americans
it is LIMITED to Americans, which suggests she hasn't a clue about the scientific method...Since there was no
'control' groups of other ethnicities, it's impossible to conclude that the study was limited to "Americans".
whathehell
(29,050 posts)Please correct your subject line.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)A striking recent example was a study done in the year 2000, led by James Kuklinski of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. He led an influential experiment in which more than 1,000 Illinois residents were asked questions about welfare the percentage of the federal budget spent on welfare, the number of people enrolled in the program, the percentage of enrollees who are black, and the average payout. More than half indicated that they were confident that their answers were correct but in fact only 3 percent of the people got more than half of the questions right. Perhaps more disturbingly, the ones who were the most confident they were right were by and large the ones who knew the least about the topic. (Most of these participants expressed views that suggested a strong antiwelfare bias.)
Studies by other researchers have observed similar phenomena when addressing education, health care reform, immigration, affirmative action, gun control, and other issues that tend to attract strong partisan opinion. Kuklinski calls this sort of response the I know Im right syndrome, and considers it a potentially formidable problem in a democratic system. It implies not only that most people will resist correcting their factual beliefs, he wrote, but also that the very people who most need to correct them will be least likely to do so.
Whats going on? How can we have things so wrong, and be so sure that were right? Part of the answer lies in the way our brains are wired. Generally, people tend to seek consistency. There is a substantial body of psychological research showing that people tend to interpret information with an eye toward reinforcing their preexisting views. If we believe something about the world, we are more likely to passively accept as truth any information that confirms our beliefs, and actively dismiss information that doesnt. This is known as motivated reasoning. Whether or not the consistent information is accurate, we might accept it as fact, as confirmation of our beliefs. This makes us more confident in said beliefs, and even less likely to entertain facts that contradict them.
New research, published in the journal Political Behavior last month, suggests that once those facts or facts are internalized, they are very difficult to budge. In 2005, amid the strident calls for better media fact-checking in the wake of the Iraq war, Michigans Nyhan and a colleague devised an experiment in which participants were given mock news stories, each of which contained a provably false, though nonetheless widespread, claim made by a political figure: that there were WMDs found in Iraq (there werent), that the Bush tax cuts increased government revenues (revenues actually fell), and that the Bush administration imposed a total ban on stem cell research (only certain federal funding was restricted). Nyhan inserted a clear, direct correction after each piece of misinformation, and then measured the study participants to see if the correction took.
mythology
(9,527 posts)I'm pretty sure that it would apply universally to all people. Look at the way that North Koreans were convinced that Kim Jong-il was a great leader in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.
Or Hitler convincing so many Germans that the Jews were the cause of their problems post World War I.
eShirl
(18,488 posts)Science is a great method for finding out stuff.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)I'm afraid it's status as a "reasonable" hypothesis is nothing but opinion
and doesn't redeem the fact that the OP's subject line is pure bullshit.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)document your assertions.
This however is about americans
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)It's called "Confirmation Bias". It isn't just Americans. And it is almost certainly hardwired into us.
The best we can do is find strategies to work around it.
But the first thing we'd have to do is admit we actually HAVE CONFIRMATION BIAS.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)for your opinion and not fact.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)As the legendary philosopher John Locke once said: New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common.
snip
Another study helps understand why this is so. Kevin Dunbar and Jonathan Fugelsanj, researchers from Dartmouth College, have discovered that a resistance to new information may actually be hardwired into our brains. When confronted with dissonant data that contradicts what we expect to see, even trained scientists appear to reject information that goes against their assumptions about how the world works.
http://noetic.org/blog/rejecting-uncommon-beliefs-how-worldview-shapes-ou/
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)But it doesn't negate this study or my OP.
Lex
(34,108 posts)Maybe that particular study was, but Confirmation Bias is a human psychology trait.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)for personal attacks.
Lex
(34,108 posts)Well played.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"So this is side thread for personal attacks..."
Seems somewhat petulant to ask that after replying with "Ms Science" to trivialize the post of another, (insert disingenuous rationalization here to validate that your labeling was simply accuracy and civility at its finest rather than what it really was).
However, I do realize that holding others to a higher standard is convenient...
neffernin
(275 posts)of you giving a direct example of confirmation bias while denying it is pretty amazing.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)Yours is an embarrassingly obvious example of trying to make the facts fit your agenda.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)Facts are different things to different people. You certainly won't get agreement as to the definition of a "fact" here on DU.
To me a fact is either something that I can verify with my own senses (like gravity causing a dropped book to fall on my toe) or something told to me by someone I trust. And that is the big problem. Different people will trust different sources. I might trust Neil DeGrasse Tyson when he tells me something about the Cosmos as a fact. I might trust Anderson Cooper telling me something is a fact. I won't trust Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter telling me something is a fact.
Take, for example, man caused global climate change. Many people claim that it is a "fact". Why? Because a number of scientists and others that they trust have agreed so. But not everyone. Who do you trust? The majority consensus? Well, it turns out that if you go back in history you can find many examples of where the consensus opinion of something was, in fact, not a "fact". But it may have been the consensus of opinion of the clergy, which were the *trusted* sources of the time. I have no problem *believing* (another problematic word) in global climate change, as I believe the climate is always changing. It has to. But man caused? WEll, maybe, maybe not. Some say yes, some say no. And I don't know which group to trust as I feel each has an agenda or a desired outcome. So I cannot find a "fact" there yet. Maybe someday I'll find a reason to trust one side or the other.
I am very selective and skeptical as to my acceptance of "facts". Way too many here confuse fact, belief, and opinion. Be careful out there.
naturallyselected
(84 posts)A consensus among clergy about scientific matters is not the same as a scientific consensus. If there are hundreds of peer-reviewed scientific studies, and 97% of them agree that climate change is caused by human activity, it doesn't matter if you or I accept it, it's still a fact. This isn't a "number" of scientists, or a "consensus opinion"; this is a huge body of scientific research.
The problem with not accepting the scientific consensus is that it is very difficult to legislate or promote any kind of corrective action if there are huge segments of the public and politicians that refuse to trust the scientific process because of their preconceptions and prejudices.
The idea that scientific consensus has sometimes been discovered to be wrong is a notion that I commonly see in the popular literature, and less commonly even here at DU. But I can't think of any examples of this when there is anything like the massive body of research that demonstrates that climate change is caused by human activity. In this case, I agree with the study you cite - it is only prejudices and preconceptions that keep people from accepting scientific fact. Any objective analysis will result in the conclusion that the data are undeniable.
What agenda is involved in accepting this? Trust in the scientific process? Some desire that the conclusion that climate change is caused by human activity be true? I would be extremely happy for this conclusion to be wrong; then there would be some hope the natural cycle would swing back before catastrophe. But my desire for this change to just be a temporary natural swing doesn't change the well-established scientific fact that climate change has been fueled by human activity.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)To you, it's a fact, because the vast majority of scientists seem to agree, and you trust or believe them.
To me, it's a very widely accepted theory. To be a fact to me, I would need to see evidence that I trust. Sure, those 97% of scientists have lots of evidence and peer reviewed studies. But I don't yet trust them or the evidence that they use. So, to me, it's not a "fact." I'm not sure I will ever believe one way or the other.
That's why we have differing opinions as to the facts. (And, of course, anyone who doesn't think a I do is wrong.)
pscot
(21,024 posts)your skepticism is very useful . If Climate change isn't manmade, there's no need to limit consumption of fossil fuels and we can just go on as we've been going. No worries, eh? But unless you have some other viable hypothesis to explain global warming, you're just another climate change denier in sheep's clothing.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)No where do I deny climate change, so I think calling me a climate change denier is untrue and could almost be considered an ad hominem attack. I sincerely believe the climate is changing. To me it's a fact.
I'll even go so far as to say that I think it is probably (i.e. a high probability) anthropogenic, but that hasn't reached the criteria for "fact" by my definition. But I'd be willing to bet money on it.
And I do think there is a need to limit consumption of fossil fuels. And it WILL happen. One way or another.
And no, I don't need some other viable hypothesis to explain global climate change. Not my job. But the Second Law of Thermodynamics also works fine for me.
Oh, and I don't really give a rat's patootie about what is useful to Exxon or the Koch brothers. Skepticism is usually probably (there's that word again) useful to somebody.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)You are trying to use a standard climate denier dodge when you say you think the climate is changing because climate is always changing, but that you don't buy into the anthropogenic aspect of it.
I guess that explains why you spend so much time disparaging renewable energy sources.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)Hey man, seems I haven't seen you around much since you got booted out of the Environment & Energy Group. I've really been missing you over there, it seems so civilized now.
Anyway, thanks for telling me my position. And here I thought I was pretty clear with, "I'll even go so far as to say that I think it is probably (i.e. a high probability) anthropogenic, but that hasn't reached the criteria for "fact" by my definition. But I'd be willing to bet money on it." I will now go and re-evaluate my position.
Yeah, that's what I do while working as a consultant in photovoltaic systems for businesses and residences, serving on a regional government sustainability group pushing for energy conservation and alternative energy sources, and volunteering for the Texas Solar Energy Society.
Gee, I just can't understand why you got kicked out of the E&E group. But it's good to see you around here continuing your cause.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)You presented it yourself; no one put the words in your mouth. It is a standard retrenchment position for climate deniers who are unable to deny the evidence any longer but still want to obstruct action.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)Yeah, I know, anyone and everyone that does not 100% share, agree with and advocate for action on your favorite issues is an obstructionist. That's maybe what got kinda old over at the E&E group.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)And the position is that of a climate change denier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial
...deny or dismiss the scientific consensus....
...its connection to human behavior...
...especially for commercial or ideological reasons...
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)As I keep having to re-learn, trying to discuss things with you is a time wasting activity. Back to ignore with you.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Please be more respectful of your fellow DUers.
eShirl
(18,488 posts)Then the challenge is to do more studies, to see whether the results agree with the first study. Because you can't just go with the results of one study alone, as there could be any number of intentional or unintentional flaws.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)"Recently, a few political scientists have begun to discover a human tendency....."
A human tendency, not a national tendency.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)I stand by my post.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)Different woo and conspiracy theories same lack of critical thinking
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Journalist Tom Ricks 'Beginning To Believe The Worst' About Greenwald And Snowden
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Coffee?
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)I think part of this is political dissidents are not routinely jailed.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)There's nothing about any of these studies which offer any explanation of why americans should be comparatively illogical.
In fact, it's interesting that americans thought about the issue enough to ask the question.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)Without controls for other nationalities, one can simply NOT jump to the
conclusion that this is a trait limited to Americans.
Sorry, dear, but most here are knowledgeable enough to understand
the basics of scientific methodology. I'm sorry that you are not.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)which is international makes the US citizens more susceptible to this than other western countries.
We don't rank high on the scale of
press freedom.
We rank 46th
https://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php
Hey its better than North Korea
whathehell
(29,050 posts)As I pointed out to the OP, unless a 'control' group of OTHER ethnicities were included, it can't in any way
limit this to Americans -- She's ignoring that fact (guess it doesn't fit her narrative) and is still trying to advance
this falsehood, though anyone familiar with scientific methodology should be able to see it for what it is.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)as points of comparison, the study can NOT conclude it to be a trait that applies to Americans only.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)however the study only included Americans, so the subject line is correct about what the study showed. You'd need a study to prove the hypothesis that it applies beyond Americans, though I agree it's likely.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)it is MY responsibility to come up with a study to prove that it goes BEYOND Americans, it was the OP's
duty to report WHAT the study found, which was that it is a HUMAN tendency to avoid facts and it
should have been reported that way....The OP seems a little short on knowledge of research protocols. As her
other post indicates, she thinks if it's done on Americans (or Finns or Laplanders) she thinks those are the only
groups to whom the conclusion could apply.
florida08
(4,106 posts)As a nation we can no longer tell the distinction between fact and fiction. Like the line in the movie The Shooter, Ned Beatty playing a corrupt senator says "the truth is what I say it is". That is now the norm. It's the outward sign of a societal breakdown which is headed for a collapse because pride is more important than truth.
"You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Patrick Moynihan
Augiedog
(2,544 posts)Facts cost money, propaganda is free. The German populace during WW II living near concentration/death camps were in denial about what was occurring in their immediate area, even when confronted with the evidence.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government, Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1789.
Maybe part of the problem is we aren't "well-informed", we are over-informed, most of which is equal to being ill-informed.
But why should I believe your facts when I have a perfectly good set of facts already? And in politics it is possible for two conflicting sets of facts to be true. This is not simple black and white, politics has many shades of gray. Often both sides of an argument can and do provide examples to support their positions.
Science also has this problem, high cholesterol levels are bad but some of the healthiest peoples in the world have high cholesterol levels. Coffee is bad for you, no it isn't, eggs are bad for you, no they aren't, and both sides of the arguments have proof.
Facts really aren't what they used to be.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Facts are not even facts.
I was the first person who was published on the West Coast on the dangers of MTBE. (A risky gas additive added to gasoline, in order to prop up corporate profits. Except the headlines told us it was good for the environment.)
What I learned was that the Major Media folks stalled on telling the story. Their articles came in months later than the small indie newspaper where I had my article published.
Then they got some of the facts wrong.
Finally Gov Davis sacrificed his politic career for the sake of putting together a panel of researchers who could use science to determine the product's safety or lack of safety. His "Blue Ribbon Panel" Found that MTBE ranked up there with mercury, benzene and formaldehyde in terms of being dangerously toxic.
The headlines however said the exact opposite. Yes, in an article attributed to the Associated Press, John Froines, who headed the panel, was quoted as saying that the product was not carcinogenic, and that people could relax and use it.
He actually said the exact opposite!
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)for what, about 20 years now?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the phenomena applies more than equally to perceptions/criticisms of President Obama. No one, here, denies/argues against the presence of an impending, if not actual, oligarchy, or the evils of the NSA/MIC; but there is plenty of denial regarding President Obama's successes and/or support of the American working class.
miyazaki
(2,239 posts)-especially to quite a few poor suckers in the E & E group who wouldn't swallow a fact if
every Nobel winning scientist shoved it down their throat.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)who look at every Chicken Little doomsday piece written by Guy McPherson, et al., or anything else that they think will support their worldview, and they'll take it and run with it, no matter how flawed or even totally un-factual it may be.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)If you watch the early commercials or read magazine ads from back in the day - they are 100% informative. They they realized that a guy in an eyepatch sold more shirts than articles talking about custom fitting or thread count. So they stopped informing and started with the advertisements we have now, that are less about convincing you their product is good, and more about convincing you you are the sort of person that buys their product.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm a fun loving guy who likes to have fun, and apparently that means I eat at TGI Fridays.
Bryant
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)"The Engineering of Consent" is an essay by Edward Bernays first published in 1947
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Engineering_of_Consent
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)which was in 1951 - about the same time I guess.
Doesn't look like much now but it sold the hell out of Hathaway Shirts.
Bryant
Neoma
(10,039 posts)Is to teach people that it's okay to be wrong.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,013 posts)When I taught Lean Sigma at my former job, we did a section on Paradigms - models for describing what we see. It talked about how even highly educated scientists disregard data if it falls outside of what they expect it to tell. I suspect there is some evolutionary necessity, at least at some point, for the tendency to put on the blinders, to filter what we see and read and block out information that cuts against our own personal belief systems.
Those who are described as cynical - or at least skeptical - are probably trying to work against such a human bias. But cynicism, taken to an extreme, can also eat one up from the inside, lead to bitterness, and disillusionment. Certainly, many of us here at DU, on particular topics, experience this. I know I do.
The tendency is actually why we refuse to watch or expose ourselves to ads - we try to think things through, and not accept much of anything at face value without processing it first. But, of course, that very processing is likely biased.
Those to use this to their advantage - corporations, political messaging - have a very powerful tool that is tough to fight - but fight it we must.
It reminds me of something I heard Bill Moyers say years ago - that a person's personal belief system carries far more weight than the truth.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Confirmation Bias, which is all this is, perhaps allows animals the ability to make FAST decisions about situations that would, in the real world, rarely present identical factors.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)where I was wrong and misinformed.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)It's called Confirmation Bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
For some new info & other interesting articles:
http://noetic.org/blog/rejecting-uncommon-beliefs-how-worldview-shapes-ou/
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/
http://daily.sightline.org/2011/02/01/are-humans-hard-wired-to-doubt-science/
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-mooney
http://blogs.hbr.org/2013/12/big-datas-biggest-challenge-convincing-people-not-to-trust-their-judgment/
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Now prove it.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)It's almost as if you've moved on to performance art.
Lex
(34,108 posts)in his very own replies.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)just from reading DU, where one person's set of "facts" can be, and often is, countered by another person's set of "facts".
And I have facts written in quotation marks because I don't know of too many issues that are written in stone without an opposing set of facts to totally refute the first set of facts.
People will just keep finding facts to support their own points of view...or prejudices.
The two (or more) groups will argue with each other, and then go after people who jump in with anecdotal evidence, as if none of it matters except for their own set of "facts".
Seeing it happen here on DU on a regular basis is both frustrating and entertaining...
Dustlawyer
(10,494 posts)(I wish), we need to fix the FCC and make news rooms report news like they used to when Cronkite was anchor, separate from the entertainment side, maybe we can get the new generations off to the right start! Fox News is brainwashing propaganda designed to benefit the 1%! I say gut them like a fish!
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)for this very reason.
Totally agree.
tridim
(45,358 posts)People are trained for years to reject reality with their big book of non-facts.
Once that is ingrained, it's easy to get people to believe anything you tell them. Faux Newz knows this.
then again, maybe not.
I've seen the same thing happen right here at DU, between people who make no claim to any religion at all.
If someone wants to believe badly enough, he'll just keep arguing his own POV, no matter what facts someone wants to throw at him from the other side of the issue.
maddezmom
(135,060 posts)It is confirmation bias and everyone uses it, IMO.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)when arguing with right wingers on the old Yahoo boards. No facts could make the slightest impact on what they WANTED TO BELIEVE the truth was.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)...in many instances, not just the political. I think the fear of being wrong is the greatest impediment to people correcting their misconceptions, and that fear is probably more a personality quirk that needs more than straight facts to diminish it. The fear of cognitive dissonance is really strong when the facts go against deeply-held beliefs (e.g., religion), especially if contrary facts threaten to upset that person's basic mental framework. Question the sanity of someone's religious belief and you might have a physical confrontation on your hands!
If someone believes, to the core of their being, the US is essentially a force for good in the world (i.e., we intervene in other countries for humanitarian reasons or to uphold our belief in the goodness of democracy) and all of our actions have benevolent intentions, then they are going to fight tooth-and-nail to make that belief stick no matter what you say to them.
I'll admit to not believing in the official narrative of the 9/11 events (and no, I'm not some disciple of Alex Jones), yet I don't waste time relaying the facts of it anymore because to them, the thought of our own government being a party to something that horrible is frightening and their reaction is similar to me telling them Jesus didn't exist - fightin' words!
No one should be afraid to admit they're wrong about anything, and I personally feel gratitude towards someone who can correct my errors lol.
factsarenotfair
(910 posts)It's actually comforting once you get used to it and makes family relationships work much better. However, I think that if any politician ever uttered those words, it would be the end of his or her career.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)could go a long way toward reducing family conflict. Maybe even between non-family as well.
Nothing is more annoying (and resentment inducing) than for some know-it-all to impart his superior knowledge (and only valid "facts" on the unwashed and ignorant peasants around him.
Like the Great Wizard of Oz.
But I could be wrong...
factsarenotfair
(910 posts)Outside of my family and in business I have to seem like I "know it all" without an obnoxious attitude. LOL
Lex
(34,108 posts)
It's called "Confirmation Bias."
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)I'm certain of that without specific documentation.
The Republicans have been leveraging this for a long time also.
Again an assertion without specific documentation.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)nt
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)(I can play this game all day)
whistler162
(11,155 posts)HOW SURPRISING SO MANY FALL FOR IT!
Corruption Inc
(1,568 posts)They're all on the internet too, as long as they make "Sense" to the people who want to hear their propaganda.
It doesn't matter how many times they are told the truth, although past research has shown that a minimum of 5 times is necessary to begin the process of reversing the brainwashing.
It's not just the CIA or intelligence agencies, it's all government and corporate interests, they've been successfully propagandizing for more than 100 years.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)It doesn't even mention "Americans", only a "human" tendency.
No other ethnicities were used as points of comparison, so I'm afraid your contention, along with the OP's
is just more knee-jerk anti-American trash talk.
Corruption Inc
(1,568 posts)Hurt much?
whathehell
(29,050 posts)you're talking out of your ass...Does that "hurt" much?
P.S. I knew what cognitive dissonance was when you were pissing in your diapers.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Confirmation bias is far more powerful than "facts". I use quotation marks since facts really don't matter.
albino65
(484 posts)florida08
(4,106 posts)It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so
mountain grammy
(26,605 posts)MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)For their belief in misinformation. Basically, folks like that bathe in a sea of their own hypocrisy and never pay any price for it at all.
It's a complete absence of responsibility that's the main fault, as misinformed folks are allowed to have their fantasies mitigated those of us who are actually informed.
This pretty much explains anyone who's either a so-called Libertarian or any of those fetus worshippers out there. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024371650
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)But in that same vein, it's not exactly universal, either.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)They believe there is only wrong and right, that there are no partial solutions. Facts don't matter, what they heard from their sources HAS to be the truth.
In the vast majority of cases, Republican be thy name.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Not only that, the anti-science folks use the system to kill science based information.
I used to think was a wonderful page, but the administrators have let it go to shit. That sucks for all people.
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)Where I put together a carefully research-oriented, factual and extensive post, but because it went against certain people's political agendas, I was responded to with a torrent of "Bullshit!" and other angry and abuse replies questioning my motives and calling me soft on Bush.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)And so poorly lacking in some.
wiggs
(7,811 posts)the 60s. The more their base feels associated with their 'team' against other teams...the easier it is to reject facts that threaten their association, their club.
Makes sense. I know a very smart guy who associates with the Tea Party but will not change his mind when his 'facts' are debunked. The hate, messaging, fear, world view that he has developed along with his friends crowds out reason. It would be a major identity crisis for him to rethink his positions.
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)Initech
(100,054 posts)cer7711
(502 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 16, 2014, 02:07 AM - Edit history (2)
. . . in an instant when confronted with verifiable, objective facts that threaten their paradigmatic view of self and reality.
Backfire, indeed!
deafskeptic
(463 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)They have taken it to the point where they actually believe you can VOTE for the reality of your choice.
yawnmaster
(2,812 posts)as stated in the article...
"There is a substantial body of psychological research showing that people tend to interpret information with an eye toward reinforcing their preexisting views."
People.
yes, the study was done with Americans, but research has supported that this is a human trait.
Putting the focus on "Americans" is hyperbole.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)ODS for example.