Putin Tells NSA Leaker Snowden There’s No Mass Surveillance In Russia (updated)

[ProSense]

Last edited Thu Apr 17, 2014, 12:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Putin Tells NSA Leaker Snowden There’s No Mass Surveillance In Russia

By Hayes Brown

Russian president Vladimir Putin had a surprise guest during his annual marathon press conference: former National Security Administration contractor, and distributor of millions of secret documents related to the spy agency’s programs, Edward Snowden.

“I’d like to ask you a question about mass surveillance of online communications and the bulk collection of private records by intelligence and law enforcement services,” Snowden began, appearing via pre-recorded question and speaking in English. The former contractor went on to cite recent decisions from the administration’s review panel and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court that the NSA’s current systems of collection are overexpansive and can be pared down without impacting its effectiveness.

“I’ve seen little public discussion about Russia’s policies on mass surveillance,” he continued, “so I’d like to ask you: does Russia intercept, store, or analyze, in any way, the communications of millions of individuals? And do you believe that simply increasing the effectiveness of intelligence or law enforcement can justify placing societies, rather than subjects, under surveillance?”

Putin quickly latched onto the question once it was translated into Russian for him. “Mr. Snowden, you are a former agent — a spy — I used to be working for an intelligence service, we are going to talk one professional language,” Putin said, referring to his previous career in the KGB. When Russian special forces and other intelligence agencies collect information from phone calls or follow someone online, the Russian president said, court permission is needed to stalk a particular person. “We don’t have a mass system of such interception,” Putin said.

- more -

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/04/17/3427770/putin-tells-nsa-leaker-snowden-theres-no-mass-surveillance-in-russia/

Updated to add:

The Snowden Effect, Continued

By Charles P. Pierce

This, dear boy, is a very bad move.

<...>

As it happens, I actually believe the U.S. capacity for surveillance probably is greater than that of Russia. (USA! USA!). But this "Our special services are strictly controlled by law" yadda-yadda is such hilariously arrant bullshit that Snowden ought to be embarrassed for helping to catapult it into the dialogue. If you're trying to convince people that you are a disinterested seeker of truth who happens to be in Moscow because of a variety of very strange circumstances -- The new Vanity Fair has a long piece on how Snowden came to be in Russia in which Julian Assange and the WikiLeaks people do not come off well at all -- and that you are not operating too closely with the current Russian regime, having Vladimir Putin get publicly chummy with you, spy-to-spy, is really not the way to make your case.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/edward-snowden-putin-041714

[randome]

1. And Snowden responded, "Thanks, Dad. You're swell!"

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Polito Vega]

7. I used to support Snowden, but now...

After seeing that you typed that Snowden called Putin "dad," I deeply suspect that the NSA's bulk collection of metadata is constitutional.

[randome]

9. I clearly didn't intend to win hearts and influence minds with that post.

Once in a while, I need to drop the staid formality and have some fun. Snowden offers plenty of opportunities for that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[kelliekat44]

115. Just so sad. So very sad. nt

[Benton D Struckcheon]

2. Russia's surveillance state

http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2013/Russia-surveillance

They outright ban websites for all kinds of reasons, including some that are downright silly. Not to mention takeovers of sites that don't toe the government line, like lenta.ru.
Re lenta.ru, it's like Obama sending in Buffett to take over Fox News.

[randome]

3. "I will name you Edward."

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[treestar]

4. lol

And I thought Eddie was so smart. Why even bother to ask that question?

[Tarheel_Dem]

28. That is too hilarious! Like Bill Maher said, everytime Snowden opens his damn mouth, he says.....

something stupid. This takes the proverbial cake.

[Cha]

121. Maher said "fucking stupid".. Eddie sets it up and Putin knocks it outta the

park!

[Tarheel_Dem]

125. I stand corrected. "Fucking stupid" it is.

[JaneyVee]

5. LOLZZZZZZ

[The Magistrate]

6. Nice To Have A Hearty Laugh To Go With My Morning Coffee, Ma'am

[Enrique]

8. ha ha ha

imagine, a head of state not being forthright about the extent of their surveillance!

[ProSense]

11. Of course,

"imagine, a head of state not being forthright about the extent of their surveillance! "

...this makes Putin cool. On the other hand, it makes Snowden a tool. I mean, he's clearly speaking staged stupid-ass question to power! LOL!

Stand with Big Vladdy


http://progressivepopulist.org/2014/03/07/stewart-blasts-fox-news-traitorous-hypocritical-praising-putin-video/

Jon Stewart Skewers Conservatives' Massive Crush On Vladimir Putin
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/stewart-skewers-conservative-love-for-putin--3

With Journalists Under Attack, Crimea Faces ‘Information Crisis’ Ahead Of National Referendum
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024630765

As Sochi Olympic venues are built, so are Kremlin's surveillance networks
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/06/sochi-olympic-venues-kremlin-surveillance

The Russian authorities accelerate their assault on freedom of assembly
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/EUR46/018/2014/en

Russia: Freedom of expression falls victim to the dramatic events in Ukraine’s Crimea
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/russia-freedom-expression-falls-victim-dramatic-events-ukraine-s-crimea-2014-03-03

Russia: Constitutional Court Upholds ‘Foreign Agents’ Law
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024797604

[Thinkingabout]

13. BTW, phone call conversations was passed to the US on the Boston Bombers and

Other phone conversations was aired, not illegal in Russia and they do not need a wire tap warrant. The criers would really have a problem in Russia on more than phone calls.

[Logical]

31. Could you be any more of a joke at this point? Are you...

Saying the NSA is doing nothing wrong?

[ProSense]

34. Actually, it appears you're the one practicing to be "joke." n/t

[Logical]

35. Answer the question! Nt

[joshcryer]

143. 3-4 keep your disruptive post.

Good for you. Not living up to your nick pretty consistently. There was no call for your comments to ProSense.

[SunsetDreams]

67. I'm not even sure how that

question came to be based on reading what you replied to.

Can you link to something I've missed that implies or flat out states where ProSense says NSA is doing NOTHING wrong?
It amazes me that voicing displeasure with ANY thing that Snowden did or how he went about it or where he is at, what he is doing now...etc.; makes this GARGANTUAN leap assumption that the person voicing that somehow thinks NSA is doing NOTHING wrong.

[Bobbie Jo]

89. Bizarre leap, indeed.

Simple is as simple does.

[SunsetDreams]

119. It just doesn't make any

bit of sense to me.

[Tarheel_Dem]

112. What the poster refuses to acknowledge is the prevailing opinion of the American people is expressed

throughout this thread. Snowden's favorability numbers continue to decline, and more people are saying that he should be prosecuted, and that includes Democrats and Republicans.

In some Il-"logical" bizzaro scenario, "Criticism of Comrade Snowden = Unmitigiated NSA Approval". Tell that to the American people, because that's exactly what's happening.

The poster is clearly trying to divert attention away from the fact that Americans are increasingly suspicious of Snowden, and I suspect by the time he's splashed all over the teevee, sitting down with Putin (spy-to-spy), he won't be able to show his face in this country EVER again. Like Bill Maher said, "everytime he opens his damned mouth, he says something stupid". And now Charlie Pierce is calling him out. It's getting really interesting.

[SunsetDreams]

135. Sitting down with Putin

asking a question that he damn well should know the answer to having worked for the NSA (one would think), makes it appear like he is assisting in pumping up Russia over his own country. That makes him appear traitorous and puts a whole new light on his "revelations", at least the motive for them. Time will tell.

[Tarheel_Dem]

136. "Pumping up Russia over his own country". Snowden may turn out to be the best...

thing that could have happened for Obama on the US foreign policy stage. Have you noticed how each of his "bombshells" attract less & less attention?

[SunsetDreams]

138. Yes I have noticed that

all "hat and no cattle" I think, but I hear something big is coming real soon.

How long is soon?

I think Snowden has now become an unwitting tool by Putin, who is trying I think to make him into some sort of latter day Tokyo Rose, orchestrating his appearances and let him spout his fears of a totalitarian state to shake up morale and undermine the credibility of our government. It's the kind of tactic Putin would use.

[Tarheel_Dem]

139. Well, I think everyone's waiting for the launch of GG's new media venture.

Propaganda won't even begin to describe that mess.

[joshcryer]

147. Not necessarily.

Hostages are known to support their hostage takers. Whole Stockholm syndrome, and all.

[joshcryer]

146. It's logical!

Someone expressing displeasure in something clearly means support for something else entirely!

[joshcryer]

145. Where has ProSense said NSA has done nothing wrong?

Where?

"Logically" you are exhibiting what we call a "straw man." Perhaps you should look it up since you can't live up to this nickname.

[Cha]

131. Charlie Pierce: "This, dear boy, is a very bad move." nt

[flamingdem]

161. Oh dear

Thank you Comrade Snowden for all the ironic entertainment you hath wrought!

[Marr]

10. NSA domestic spying is a big problem.

All the silly Snowden smears and photoshopped pictures of Putin riding animals don't change that. They just make apologists look like children.

[randome]

14. And what domestic spying is the NSA engaged in?

Storing phone metadata records?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[Octafish]

22. NSA spies on Congress, for starters.

NSA Spying Enables War Party to Blackmail Congress

The NSA Is Spying On Our Elected Representatives

Posted on January 4, 2014 by WashingtonsBlog

After Senator Bernie Sanders asked the NSA whether it spied on members of congress, the NSA responded:

NSA’s authorities to collect signals intelligence data include procedures that protect the privacy of US persons. Such protections are built into and cut across the entire process. Members of Congress have the same privacy protections as all US persons. NSA is fully committed to transparency with Congress. Our interaction with Congress has been extensive both before and since the media disclosures began last June.

In other words: yes, we spy on members of Congress, just like all other Americans.

SNIP...

The Bigger Question: What Is NSA Doing With the Info?

But the bigger question is what the NSA does with that information. Remember, the Guardian reported in September that not only might the NSA be collecting information on Congress, but that it was sharing unfiltered information with a foreign nation … Israel:

The National Security Agency routinely shares raw intelligence data with Israel without first sifting it to remove information about US citizens, a top-secret document provided to the Guardian by whistleblower Edward Snowden reveals.

***

According to the agreement, the intelligence being shared would not be filtered in advance by NSA analysts to remove US communications. “NSA routinely sends ISNU [the Israeli Sigint National Unit] minimized and unminimized raw collection”, it says.

***

A much stricter rule was set for US government communications found in the raw intelligence. The Israelis were required to “destroy upon recognition” any communication “that is either to or from an official of the US government“. Such communications included those of “officials of the executive branch (including the White House, cabinet departments, and independent agencies), the US House of Representatives and Senate (member and staff) and the US federal court system (including, but not limited to, the supreme court)”.

In reality, there is quite a bit of evidence that NSA is using information gained through spying to blackmail Congress.

SOURCE: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/01/nsa-pretty-much-admits-spying-congress.html

That should bother anyone who believes in democracy.

[randome]

23. Blackmailing 535 congressional representatives? I don't think so.

I would think the NSA 'collects' data on Congress -or any U.S. citizen- by virtue of monitoring and collecting off-shore communications and that's why the answer to Sanders' question was not as direct as it could have been.

Just a guess on my part, of course, but it's a shame Snowden didn't get evidence of the NSA flaunting its own rules and regulations.

Hell, the NSA gets a warrant for the metadata records and one isn't even needed! I think that shows they are aware that boundaries exist and do what they can to avoid crossing them.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Octafish]

158. Doesn't have to be everyone. Take what NSA did to Sen. Frank Church (D-Idaho)

Sen. Frank Church (D-ID) warned us what would happen if NSA turned its technology on the American people, so NSA spied on him. Sen. Church was a patriot, a hero and a statesman, truly a great American. The guy also led the last real investigation of CIA, NSA and FBI. When it came to NSA Tech circa 1975, he definitely knew what he was talking about:

“That capability at any time could be turned around on the American people and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn’t matter. There would be no place to hide. If this government ever became a tyranny, if a dictator ever took charge in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back, because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know. Such is the capability of this technology.

I don’t want to see this country ever go across the bridge. I know the capability that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return.”

-- Sen. Frank Church (D-Idaho) FDR New Deal, Liberal, Progressive, World War II combat veteran. A brave man, the NSA was turned on him. Coincidentally, he narrowly lost re-election a few years later.

And what happened to Church, for his trouble to preserve Democracy:

In 1980, Church will lose re-election to the Senate in part because of accusations of his committee’s responsibility for Welch’s death by his Republican opponent, Jim McClure.

SOURCE: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=frank_church_1

From GWU's National Security Archives:

"Disreputable if Not Outright Illegal": The National Security Agency versus Martin Luther King, Muhammad Ali, Art Buchwald, Frank Church, et al.

Newly Declassified History Divulges Names of Prominent Americans Targeted by NSA during Vietnam Era

Declassification Decision by Interagency Panel Releases New Information on the Berlin Crisis, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the Panama Canal Negotiations

National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 441
Posted – September 25, 2013
Originally Posted - November 14, 2008
Edited by Matthew M. Aid and William Burr

Washington, D.C., September 25, 2013 – During the height of the Vietnam War protest movements in the late 1960s and early 1970s, the National Security Agency tapped the overseas communications of selected prominent Americans, most of whom were critics of the war, according to a recently declassified NSA history. For years those names on the NSA's watch list were secret, but thanks to the decision of an interagency panel, in response to an appeal by the National Security Archive, the NSA has released them for the first time. The names of the NSA's targets are eye-popping. Civil rights leaders Dr. Martin Luther King and Whitney Young were on the watch list, as were the boxer Muhammad Ali, New York Times journalist Tom Wicker, and veteran Washington Post humor columnist Art Buchwald. Also startling is that the NSA was tasked with monitoring the overseas telephone calls and cable traffic of two prominent members of Congress, Senators Frank Church (D-Idaho) and Howard Baker (R-Tennessee).

SNIP...

Another NSA target was Senator Frank Church, who started out as a moderate Vietnam War critic. A member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee even before the Tonkin Gulf incident, Church worried about U.S. intervention in a "political war" that was militarily unwinnable. While Church voted for the Tonkin Gulf resolution, he later saw his vote as a grave error. In 1965, as Lyndon Johnson made decisions to escalate the war, Church argued that the United States was doing "too much," criticisms that one White House official said were "irresponsible." Church had been one of Johnson's Senate allies but the President was angry with Church and other Senate critics and later suggested that they were under Moscow's influence because of their meetings with Soviet diplomats. In the fall of 1967, Johnson declared that "the major threat we have is from the doves" and ordered FBI security checks on "individuals who wrote letters and telegrams critical of a speech he had recently delivered." In that political climate, it is not surprising that some government officials eventually nominated Church for the watch list.[10]

SOURCE: http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB441/

I wonder if Sen. Richard Schweiker (R-CT) also got the treatment from NSA?

“I think that the report, to those who have studied it closely, has collapsed like a house of cards, and I think the people who read it in the long run future will see that. I frankly believe that we have shown that the [investigation of the] John F. Kennedy assassination was snuffed out before it even began, and that the fatal mistake the Warren Commission made was not to use its own investigators, but instead to rely on the CIA and FBI personnel, which played directly into the hands of senior intelligence officials who directed the cover-up.” — Senator Richard Schweiker on “Face the Nation” in 1976.

Lost to History NOT

[Historic NY]

126. Somehow I think that might be a good idea...

given the assholes that are there.

[Octafish]

159. True about the assholes. Wrong about spying: They are the People's representatives.

NSA -- like CIA, NRO, FBI and all what from the Pentagon and more rocks -- is an executive agency. One man, on paper, holds power over them all. And he can be the biggest dick, ever.

Cheney’s coup

A 3-year-old executive order that vastly expanded his powers illuminates how the vice president and his minions led us into war.

SIDNEY BLUMENTHAL
Salon.com, THURSDAY, FEB 23, 2006 06:39 AM EST

After shooting Austin lawyer Harry Whittington, Dick Cheney’s immediate impulse was to control the intelligence. Rather than call the president directly, he ordered an aide to inform White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card that there had been an accident but not that Cheney was its cause. Then a host of surrogates attacked the victim for not steering clear of Cheney when he was firing. Cheney attempted to defuse the subsequent furor by giving an interview to friendly Fox News. His most revealing answer came in response to a question about something other than the hunting accident.

Cheney was asked about court papers filed by his former chief of staff, I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice in the investigation of the leaking of the identity of an undercover CIA operative, Valerie Plame. (She is the wife of former ambassador Joseph Wilson, a critic of disinformation used to justify the invasion of Iraq.) In those papers, Libby laid out a line of defense that he had leaked classified material at the behest of “his superiors” (to wit, Cheney). Libby detailed that he was authorized to disclose to members of the press classified sections of the prewar National Intelligence Estimate on Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction. (The NIE was exposed as wrongly asserting that Saddam possessed WMD and was constructing nuclear weapons.) Indeed, Cheney explained, he has the power to declassify intelligence. “There is an executive order to that effect,” he said. Had he ever done that “unilaterally”? “I don’t want to get into that.”

On March 25, 2003, President Bush signed Executive Order 13292, a hitherto little known document that grants the greatest expansion of the power of the vice president in American history. The order gives the vice president the same ability to classify intelligence as the president. By controlling classification, the vice president can in effect control intelligence and, through that, foreign policy.

Bush operates on the radical notion of the “unitary executive,” that the president has inherent and limitless powers in his role as commander in chief, above the system of checks and balances. By his extraordinary order, he elevated Cheney to his level, an acknowledgment that the vice president was already the de facto executive in national security. Never before has any president diminished and divided his power in this manner. Now the unitary executive inherently includes the unitary vice president.

The unprecedented executive order bears the earmarks of Cheney’s former counsel and current chief of staff, David Addington. Addington has been the closest assistant to Cheney through three decades, since Cheney served in the House of Representatives in the 1980s. Inside the executive branch, far and wide, Addington acts as Cheney’s vicar, bullying and sarcastic, inspiring fear and obedience. Few documents of concern to the vice president, even executive orders, reach the eyes of the president without passing first through Addington’s agile hands.

CONTINUED...

http://www.salon.com/2006/02/23/cheney_power/

Big fucking asshole.

[Logical]

33. So you have no trouble with anything the NSA is doing? nt

[randome]

68. I don't really care about international spying. Couldn't care less about the metadata stuff.

Sharing info with GCHQ and vice-versa? I have a problem with that since it seems like an end-run around the law. IMO, that should be where we demand more clarity.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[Thinkingabout]

12. Yea, right, Russia has never spied on anyone. So, Putin was answering a question

To a spy. Now that is a pair to believe.

[arely staircase]

15. I guess wikipedia is blocked over there. Maybe they think it will give you the Eurogay or something

SORM (Russian: Система Оперативно-Розыскных Мероприятий, literally "System for Operative Investigative Activities&quot is a technical system for search and surveillance in the internet. A Russian law passed in 1995 allows the FSB to monitor telephone and internetcommunications.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SORM

[bunnies]

21. lol & smh.

You cant make this shit up.

[Cha]

132. We know Putin's lying his ass off but here it is in Black and White. The Putin and Snowden show..

Journalistic death toll in Putin's Russia

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2012/mar/11/journalist-safety-vladimir-putin

[Whisp]

16. LOL! Has Fast Eddie taken up stand up comedy?

Wow. Just W.O.W.

How stupid can one Libertarian nutbar be? There will be a new definition now with Eddie's picture near by.

I wonder how Greenwald is going to spin this into something exotic and in-trreeeeeeeeeeeeg'ing.

[msanthrope]

17. Comrade Eddie!!!! I guess I called that correctly. nt

[randome]

19. And notice how Putin called him a 'spy'.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[msanthrope]

50. Yes...called him a spy, treated him like a colleague. nt

[Number23]

141. Did you see the other thread that says that Snowden is NOT a Russian spy despite the fact that Putin

called him one point blank and Snowden didn't even make a peep in terms of a correction? But he's NOT a spy! Don't believe your lying eyes and ears!

This whole thing just got even more stupid, bizarre and utterly surreal.

[Union Scribe]

151. Snowden worked as an NSA contractor.

When Putin talks about the profession, he is obviously talking about the intelligence profession. Do you really think he would out his spy?

Putin also said it in Russian which Snowden doesn't speak (who asked the question in English, which Putin didn't understand) and Snowden was off the air by the time the "spy" line came, so there's not much he could say about that even if he had understood Putin. So all of you clamoring that you have the smoking gun are, once again, left with just your conspiracy theories.

[Cha]

137. It was a love-fest..

[snooper2]

18. Well, they are having trouble keeping up due to lack of beta tapes

Putin thought Snowy could help them with some new technology but he isn't as bright as they thought he was.

Snagging passwords from fellow employees doesn't take an "engineer" LOL

[randome]

24. It takes a soft voice and dewey eyes!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Tarheel_Dem]

47. !!!

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. Maybe a "pole dancing" friend or two!

[UTUSN]

20. R#6&K he should have asked if there is Ruskie Selective Service drafting forhis age group forUkraine

[NCTraveler]

25. Mr. Snowden, I have never slit anyones throa..........

I mean.....I mean our people are free from government intrusion and oppression. Yeah, that's what I meant to say.

[AgingAmerican]

26. At least there is one person in Russia willing to call out

Pooty poot on his fascist BS.

[Ohio4theWin]

39. Who's that? Certainly not the hypocrite Snowden.

Snowden was brought out and displayed as a piece of propaganda. He fled to a country that if they intercept you speaking about gays in front of a child you go to prison. This video shows Snowden has become a patsy of the Russians.

[AgingAmerican]

40. lol

He fled to that country because the USA forced him do to so. He has balls.

[Ohio4theWin]

44. No, he chose Russia and is hypocrite for doing so.

To condemn a government for their survival of its citizens and then seek protection from Russia is so very rich with irony. That is not balls my friend.

[AgingAmerican]

45. You just don't recognize a true American hero

...when you see one.

[Tarheel_Dem]

51. ???!!!???

[Ohio4theWin]

61. You believe Snowden called out Putin today, perhaps it is you that does recognize what is going on?

Snowden leaked military intel that has nothing to do with the NSA collecting information about U.S. citizens, not my kind of hero.

[Cha]

130. I agree.. Snowden's no "hero" .. he's America's enemy..

Last edited Fri Apr 18, 2014, 12:30 AM - Edit history (1)

More Snowden leaks - and this time Al Qaeda is the surveillance target (+video)

".. But what caught my eye in one of the unredacted slides was the mention of Al Qaeda in Iraq being a particular target of the NSA's efforts. The slide reads: "Visual Communicator – Free application that combines Instant Messaging, Photo-Messaging, and Push2Talk capabilities on a mobile platform. VC used on GPRS or 3G networks." The next five words were what the Times tried and failed to redact: "heavily used in AQI Mosul Network."

The aim as described in the documents is to target mobile phone apps that can give away a target's physical location. The utility of this in tracking terrorists hardly needs to be stated. The document describes a program focusing on clear security interests – Al Qaeda in Iraq, now calling itself Al Qaeda in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) – killed thousands in Iraq during the US-led war there and continues to carry out suicide bombings and attacks on civilians there on a weekly basis. ISIS is also deeply involved in the civil war in Syria, and the groups ties to Al Qaeda make it an obvious security concern for the US.."

snip//

"..But his claim that "none of this has anything to do with terrorism" is not reasonable. That's pure nonsense -- as is his attempt to suggest that any revelations of eavesdropping techniques can't do any harm because terrorists already know all about it. Terrorists may know that the US is trying to spy on them as best it can (just as Germany and France know that). But knowing the precise method is another thing altogether."

MOre..
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Security-Watch/Backchannels/2014/0130/More-Snowden-leaks-and-this-time-Al-Qaeda-is-the-surveillance-target-video

[Whisp]

27. Eddie's clown shoes are getting bigger and shinier. n/t

[ProSense]

29. LOL! Greenwald:

Glenn Greenwald ✔ @ggreenwald
Follow
Snowden should storm the Kremlin, take their surveillance docs & demand to be sent to the US: just like his brave patriotic critics would do
9:33 AM - 17 Apr 2014

142 Retweets 134 favorites

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/456787575207124992

Clown.

[AgingAmerican]

41. "Greenwald!"

...is the "Benghazi!" of the third way.

[ProSense]

42. LOL!

"Greenwald!"...is the "Benghazi!" of the third way.

Leave Greenwald alone.

[BenzoDia]

95. Greenwald's a Snowdenbot

Always autogenerates a defensive response.

[Tarheel_Dem]

30. I assume this is why Edward Snowden's favorability continues to erode in this country. He's about..

as popular here as ol' Vlad himself.

[Cha]

129. Bullseye!

[Tarheel_Dem]

133. It'd be funny if it weren't true.

[Cha]

134. I know Tarheel.. sad but true.. :( ..

Journalistic death toll in Putin's Russia

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2012/mar/11/journalist-safe..ty-vladimir-putin

[Number23]

142. Eroding favorability, you say??! Pshaw! Not among the DU faithful!

[Tarheel_Dem]

160. They'll only come around when some crack reporter uncovers the truth about Comrade's covert....

association with the Russian government, and maybe not even then. As MADem said, there are a number of questions about Snowie's whereabouts between the time he left Hong Kong, and then resurfaced in Russia. As Rachel Maddow would say, "watch this space".

[stevenleser]

32. And now Snowden is unmasked for the Putin tool that he is. nt

[ProSense]

36. Daily Kos

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/17/1292676/-Snowden-Questions-Putin-During-TV-Phone-In

[yellowcanine]

37. I particularly liked how Putin referenced his KGB past.

That is so comforting.

[Hutzpa]

38. To be honest this whole charade is turning into a carnival.

FWIW this shows that Putin has been put on his backside by Obama, this is more a show of desperation.

Obama is a baaaaaaad mof(shutyourmouth).

[SidDithers]

43. "Leave Snowden Alone!!"...

shouted the Snowdenistas, wiping flecks of spittle from their monitors.

Sid

[Vashta Nerada]

46. You sure do spend a lot of time trying to discredit a guy...

when the NSA spying isn't even about the guy.

[msanthrope]

48. Snowden is doing all that himself...whose bright idea was for him to show up at this circus??? nt

[ProSense]

49. I had nothing to do with staging this Putin propaganda event.

Come to grips with the fact that Snowden is a tool.

[Vashta Nerada]

53. I see you only focus on two things on this site.

1. Snowden
2. Spreading pro-Obama propaganda

Hmmmm...

[ProSense]

55. I see you only "focus" on me.

"1. Snowden
2. Spreading pro-Obama propaganda "

Apparently, criticizing Snowden and supporting Obama upsets you.

[Vashta Nerada]

57. There's supporting,

then there's spreading propaganda to the point of zealotry.

And this only has 14 recs?

Very telling.

[ProSense]

60. Oh,

"There's supporting,

then there's spreading propaganda to the point of zealotry.

And this only has 14 recs?

Very telling."

...you're in the more recs makes it valid group? What does the number of recs have to do with the OP?

I mean, whining because Snowden made a fool of himself is, well, "zealotry."

What do you call someone who seems upset by the mere fact that people support Obama? Upset that people are more impressed by Bush?

LOL!

[Vashta Nerada]

62. I would actually like to see you discuss the NSA domestic spying.

You know, the actual issue.

[ProSense]

63. Leave Snowden alone!!!

LOL!

[Vashta Nerada]

65. Wow.

[arely staircase]

101. people can discuss both

it is possible to believe the NSA needs more oversite and see that Snowden, regardless of original motives, is now helping make propaganda for a fascist security state.

[Vashta Nerada]

102. Sure, it's possible.

But people on one side of this issue don't want to discuss the NSA domestic spying.

See: post #63.

[ProSense]

104. That's hilarious

"But people on one side of this issue don't want to discuss the NSA domestic spying. See: post #63."

I mean, you want to discuss the NSA in a thread about Snowden making an ass of himself? Why? Can't deal with the reality that he's a tool?

There are plenty of threads dealing with the NSA. This isn't one of them.

[Vashta Nerada]

105. *cough*

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4834970

Again. IT'S NOT ABOUT SNOWDEN!

[ProSense]

106. The OP is "about Snowden"

If you you don't "give two shits about Snowden," then maybe you shouldn't be all over this thread trying to deflect attention from the point of the OP.

[Vashta Nerada]

107. Maybe instead of attacking an irrelevant person every chance you can get...

maybe you should discuss issues that, I don't know, affect each and every American like the NSA spying?

[ProSense]

109. Here's an idea

"Maybe instead of attacking an irrelevant person every chance you can get...maybe you should discuss issues that, I don't know, affect each and every American like the NSA spying?"

...start your own thread and stop telling other people what to post. If you don't like this thread, just ignore it.

This OP is for those who want to discuss the Putin-Snowden charade.

[arely staircase]

108. you are the person in this thread trying to change the subject of the op

I am guessing the irony is lost on you.

[Tarheel_Dem]

113. They sure can, and your statement is borne out in American public opinion. They don't like secret..

surveillance, but they don't like Snowden either.

Emily Swanson

Huffpo: Americans Might Not Support Edward Snowden, But They Support Disclosing Programs

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/01/edward-snowden-support_n_5071938.html


Posted: 04/01/2014 5:11 pm EDT Updated: 04/01/2014 5:59 pm EDT

[tridim]

82. "Hmmmm..." indeed.

Pause for a second and look at what you just wrote, on DEMOCRATIC Underground.

Do you have something else to tell us about yourself? Now would be a good time for it.

[Vashta Nerada]

85. I have nothing to tell you.

However, if you want to see how good of a Democrat I am, please feel free to look at my Recommendation history:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=306421&sub=recs

[dionysus]

166. oh noes.. obama propaganda!!

[gholtron]

66. I totally Agree ProSense.

Putin called him a Spy.

"Mr Snowden, you are a former agent, a spy, I used to work for the intelligence service, we are going to talk one professional language," Putin said, according to translation by state-run broadcaster Russia Today.
"Our intelligence efforts are strictly regulated by our law so...you have to get a court permission to stalk that particular person.

"We don't have as much money as they have in the States and we don't have these technical devices that they have in the States. Our special services, thank God, are strictly controlled by society and the law and regulated by the law."

He added: "Of course, we know that terrorists and criminals use technology so we have to use means to respond to these, but we don't have uncontrollable efforts like [in America]."

[uponit7771]

52. False: Highlighting Snowdens overt stupidity doesn't take a lot of time..

[Tarheel_Dem]

54. I can't wait til it comes to light that Snowden didn't wind up in Russia by accident.

I predict some tenacious reporter will uncover the truth.

[tritsofme]

56. Wow, I think even the Putin/Snowden apologist crowd will have a hard time

explaining this one away.

[arely staircase]

58. nah nt

[Cali_Democrat]

59. What in the hell did I just read?

I can't believe this is for real.

[Spazito]

64. Snowden is beyond pathetic...

I actually laughed out loud upon reading this. It doesn't surprise me at all, I remember his praise of Russia not so long ago. Putin lapdog.

[WhiteTara]

69. And those weren't Russian troops massed at the border

of Ukraine. So glad we got that cleared up!

[SunsetDreams]

70. K&R! Prosense do you have

a link to that Vanity Fair article that Pierce refers to?

"The new Vanity Fair has a long piece on how Snowden came to be in Russia in which Julian Assange and the WikiLeaks people do not come off well at all"

[ProSense]

73. No, I don't. Will try to find. n/t

[SunsetDreams]

75. Thank you nt

[steve2470]

77. it's here ProSense

https://soundcloud.com/vanityfair/the-snowden-saga


from this link: http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/04/edward-snowden-vf-audio

[ProSense]

81. Thanks. n/t

[SunsetDreams]

118. Thank you steve :)

I'm off to read it in just a few!

[BeyondGeography]

71. Snowden has never been a "disinterested seeker of the truth"

And Pierce is sure to be thrown under the bus by the fanz for even suggesting it.

[Skraxx]

72. Putin's having some fun playing with his new pet! How embarrassing for Snowden

Yeesh.

Don't know how lucky you are boy, back in the USSR.

[Blue_Tires]

74. I'm speechless

I predicted the wheels were going to come off eventually, but never this soon and never in this manner...The newsrooms in Washington, New York, London and Berlin must have all be shitting bricks in disbelief...

I've been probably the biggest DU critic of Snowden/Greenwald since this thing started, and even *I* of all people am hoping to the gods that there is more than face value to what has to be the silliest fuckheaded stunt in recent memory...Please let this be the first step in some long, complex plot which eventually brings down Putin's reign...

Mr. Snowden, just because I've accused you of being a well-intentioned but incredibly naïve person trying to do the right thing transformed into a mark by those with power and influence; it doesn't mean I ever wanted it to be true...Please prove me wrong once and for all, since the last thing I need is any reinforcement of my hyper-cynical view of the world...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

78. Putin said essentially the same thing that Obama and the NSA said.

[msanthrope]

79. Kindly cite where POTUS agreed Comrade Eddie was a "spy."

Because that's what's Putin said and it's actually a pretty big fucking deal

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

83. I was referring to the the denial that Russia performed Mass Intelligence gatherering.

Technically, Snowden was a spy when he filched the secrets. He was "spying" for us.

[BenzoDia]

94. Aha!

[ProSense]

80. Which, like I said,

makes Putin cool (false equivalency aside), right? On the other hand, it makes Snowden a tool.

Stand with Big Vladdy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024833461#post11

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

84. And, the difference between Snowden and reporters who ask the same questions

and get the same answers from Obama is?

[ProSense]

86. Well,

"And, the difference between Snowden and reporters who ask the same questions and get the same answers from Obama is?"

...1) Snowden is stuck in Russia. 2) He just proved he's Putin's propaganda tool.

No one has to guess that Putin spies, and no, it's not remotely the same thing.

Obama doesn't control the MSM. I do know that staged suck-ass attempt to prop Putin up wasn't voluntary. Why is Snowden playing along as Putin's puppet?

The MSM sucks. You think this makes Snowden look good?

He played Putin's fool.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

87. And, you "know" it wasn't voluntary. How?

[ProSense]

88. LOL!

"And, you 'know' it wasn't voluntary. How?"

OK, he decided to play Putin's fool voluntarily.

You do know that either way he's a tool, right?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

90. No, I don't. No more than I know that Jim Acosta or Major Garrett are Obama's "tools".

When they ask similar questions and get similar answers.

[ProSense]

91. That makes no sense. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

92. Makes no sense?

I'm comparing questions and answers. Snowden asked a similar question of Putin about mass surveillance in Russia and was answered with (to put it mildly) an evasive answer. Reporters have asked Obama similar questions about NSA mass surveillance and were answered with (to put it mildly) evasive answers.

Get it now?

[ProSense]

93. No,

"I'm comparing questions and answers. Snowden asked a similar question of Putin about mass surveillance in Russia and was answered with (to put it mildly) an evasive answer. Reporters have asked Obama similar questions about NSA mass surveillance and were answered with (to put it mildly) evasive answers. "

...you're engaging in false equivalencies to deny the fact that Snowden made a big-ass fool of himself.

Not only is comparing Snowden to an MSM reporter beyond silly, but also the attempt to equate the two situations is lame as a defense.

Snowden had a choice: play Putin's fool or not. If he did it volutarily he's a fool for taking the opportunity to ask a lame-ass question that everyone knows the answer to. If he participated in a staged event, he's a tool.

Putin's answer wasn't "evasive" he flat out denied that Russia is engaged in surveillance.

Equivalent would be Obama announcing a press conference, and you calling in (voluntarily or involuntarily, meaning the WH stage this) and asking if the NSA exists. Obama responds, no.

Snowden made a friggin fool of himself, and the lame attempts to spin it any other way are telling. Greenwald's, though, is classic.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024833461#post29

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

96. Obama denied (or, if you prefer rationalized) the mass surveillance carried out by the NSA.

What "false equivalence"? A question was asked. A question was answered. In both cases what possible difference does it make who asked the question?

It looks to me as if, again, you're blaming the messenger.

[ProSense]

98. This

Obama denied (or, if you prefer rationalized) the mass surveillance carried out by the NSA.

What "false equivalence"? A question was asked. A question was answered. In both cases what possible difference does it make who asked the question?

It looks to me as if, again, you're blaming the messenger.

...reminds me of when Greenwald gets called on something. He starts comparing himself to people he condemns. He even tried to compare himself to Bill Clinton.

You don't approve of Obama's response to the NSA spying. You're criticial of MSM reporters. Now that Snowden has made a big-ass fool of himself by playing Putin's fool, you try to equate Putin to Obama and Snowden to MSM reports.

Like I said, this is lame defensiveness and an attempt to deny the reality: Snowden has made a big-ass fool of himself by playing Putin's fool.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

99. Do you believe that the NSA doesn't engage in mass surveillance?

I do. I also believe that the new KGB does.

I believe it to be wrong in both cases. I believe that politicians of any nationality lie to the people they govern as a matter of course. I further believe those lies should be exposed.

Whether Snowden asked the questions of Putin, or reporters asked the questions of Obama, the fact that both lied is the relevant part.

[ProSense]

100. Snowden made a big-ass fool of himself by playing Putin's fool.

False equivalencies are irrelevant.

[Tarheel_Dem]

103. !!!

[SunsetDreams]

120. "I also believe that the new KGB does"

Surely you jest.

The new KGB engages engages in mass surveillance but the old KGB didn't?

A military service and was governed by army laws and regulations, similar to the Soviet Army or MVD Internal Troops. While most of the KGB archives remain classified, two on-line documentary sources are available.[1][2] Its main functions were foreign intelligence, counterintelligence, operative-investigatory activities, guarding the State Border of the USSR, guarding the leadership of the Central Committee of the Communist Party and the Soviet Government, organization and ensuring of government communications as well as combating nationalism, dissent, and anti-Soviet activities.

After the dissolution of the USSR, the KGB was split into the Federal Security Service and the Foreign Intelligence Service of the Russian Federation.

After breaking away from the Republic of Georgia in the early 1990s with Russian help, the self-proclaimed Republic of South Ossetia established its own KGB (keeping this unreformed name)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KGB#cite_note-Y-1

Inside the KGB: Terror of the Soviet Union | History Documentary

[brush]

110. God! If it was voluntary that makes him even more of a tool. nt

[clarice]

97. Just spit out my diet Pepsi. nt

[rumdude]

111. The russian government is his protector; he had to do it;

whether he believes Putin or even respects him is another story altogether.

[Tarheel_Dem]

114. The sad part is, you probably believe that.

[kelliekat44]

116. Wonder who among the President's detractors will applaud the "thruthiness" of Putin? nt

[AverageJoe90]

117. There is no mass surveillance in Russia.....

Just like there's no global climate change. Just like all American white people are automatically privileged above everyone else regardless of other factors, because of their skin color. Just like Obama is a Republican in disguise. Just like there's no difference between the two parties.....

BTW, do I NEED the fucking sarcasm tag? Do I?

Honestly, fuck you, Eddie Snowden.

[Cha]

122. Ed finally blew it.. Snowden Quote When he First Came to Russia..

"... These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations carried out by the powerful rather than the powerless. By refusing to compromise their principles in the face of intimidation, they have earned the respect of the world. It is my intention to travel to each of these countries to extend my personal thanks to their people and leaders.
http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Edward-Snowden-to.html

Snowden is a raging hypocritical tool for Putin.. Good on Putin.. bad Obama.. Just ask eddie.. you fucking libertarian asshole.

[ProSense]

123. He's Putin's tool and

captive "spy." He's a prisoner in Russia, which has his "gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations carried out by the powerful rather than the powerless."


Yikes!

LOL!

[Cha]

124. And, he's America's enemy..

More Snowden leaks - and this time Al Qaeda is the surveillance target (+video)

But what caught my eye in one of the unredacted slides was the mention of Al Qaeda in Iraq being a particular target of the NSA's efforts. The slide reads: "Visual Communicator – Free application that combines Instant Messaging, Photo-Messaging, and Push2Talk capabilities on a mobile platform. VC used on GPRS or 3G networks." The next five words were what the Times tried and failed to redact: "heavily used in AQI Mosul Network."

The aim as described in the documents is to target mobile phone apps that can give away a target's physical location. The utility of this in tracking terrorists hardly needs to be stated. The document describes a program focusing on clear security interests – Al Qaeda in Iraq, now calling itself Al Qaeda in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) – killed thousands in Iraq during the US-led war there and continues to carry out suicide bombings and attacks on civilians there on a weekly basis. ISIS is also deeply involved in the civil war in Syria, and the groups ties to Al Qaeda make it an obvious security concern for the US.

MOre..
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Security-Watch/Backchannels/2014/0130/More-Snowden-leaks-and-this-time-Al-Qaeda-is-the-surveillance-target-video

[enid602]

127. Gannon

Snowden'becomes Gannon. When will he be given sleepover privileges at Moscow's version of the White House?

[stone space]

128. I don't understand the update article.

It seems to be blaming Snowden for Putin's reply.

Let's be clear here.

Snowden asked the question.

Putin answered.

Snowden is responsible for his question, and Putin is responsible for his answer.

If a journalist were to ask the same question of President Obama, would that journalist be held responsible for President Obama's response?

One can criticize Snowden for asking the question of Putin, just as one can criticize a journalist of asking a similar question of President Obama.

But one cannot criticize either one for the answer to the question.

Such criticism should be directed to the individual answering the question, not the individual asking the question.

[Calista241]

140. Propaganda

Putin is using Snowden as a propaganda tool. Snowden has terabytes of US secret data (some of which may truly be important), is being trotted out on demand to ask a bullshit question so Putin can mock the US.

Putin has crushed and imprisoned his political rivals, changed the Russian constitution so he can stay in power indefinitely, is aggressively expanding Russia's territorial boundraries; and we're supposed to believe he isn't spying on people? Get real.

[stone space]

157. Was it a bullshit question when it was asked of Clapper? (nt)

[Calista241]

162. Probably...

But Clapper's question was asked in an information gathering forum by his superiors and he eventually got called out on it. That he hasn't been fired is a travesty.

Snowden got to ask this planted question of Putin on a TV town hall-ish meeting, in the middle of escalating international tensions between the US and Russia. Putin spent most of his time mocking America in his completely bullshit, rambling and inflammatory answer.

Snowden isn't some activist for good moral conscience anymore. He's a puppet whose strings are firmly controlled by the Russians.

[ucrdem]

144. I'm sure it was just a random thing, like Snowden showing up in Hong Kong and Moscow.

Nothing he ever really planned, just kind of happened.

p.s. yes this is sarcasm.

[joshcryer]

148. Hong Kong was planned.

But I suspect he didn't plan to wind up in Moscow. That was all by design.

I then wonder who suggested he go to Hong Kong, it requires a visa, there was really no recourse once his plane landed. He had a half dozen outs in South America. It's kind of sad. What information was Snowden given?

[ucrdem]

149. Snowden might not be planning his moves, but someone is.

Getting on TV during Putin's annual state-of-the-state broadcast for example is not child's play.

[joshcryer]

153. Unquestionably.

No way an even remotely logical person chooses the east over South America. There is only one continent in the world that would protect him against US aggression without necessarily exploiting them. South America > anywhere else.

[ucrdem]

154. I think I'd agree with that.

I don't think it's a coincidence though that Snowden is stirring up acrimony between the US and Chna and Russia, who are the main obstacles blocking the Syrian and Iran invasions. In Obama's first term he got along well with Putin and Xi's predecessor, but now he and Putin are feuding like hillbillies and the Xi-Obama relationship got off to a terrible start thanks to well-timed intel leaks attributed to Snowden.

[JI7]

150. watching video of this is sad and embarrassing

[ucrdem]

152. ODS is a strange taskmaster.

[Cha]

165. It's relentless!

[SidDithers]

155. Kick...nt

Sid

[Arkana]

156. No, just brutal oppression, starvation, jailing of political opponents

and murder of leaders who speak out against you.

I guess that's an even trade, right?

[DonViejo]

163. Damn...

Putin's one damned good politician:

“Mr. Snowden, you are a former agent — a spy — I used to be working for an intelligence service, we are going to talk one professional language,”

"Mr. Snowden, you are a...spy. I used to be working for an intelligence service."

They worked for the same type operation but Snowden is the spy, while Putin was in the "Intelligence Service" Clever description of the KGB while demeaning Snowden

[Cha]

164. Thanks for pointing that out, Don. Yeah, I would say Putin has the framing down..