Can anyone tell me what Snowden is trying to accomplish?

[babylonsister]

I really would like to know what the point of this might be.


April 17, 2014, 08:48 am
Snowden calls Putin to talk NSA

By Julian Hattem


Edward Snowden called into a Russian state television program on Thursday and asked President Vladimir Putin about whether Moscow has surveillance programs similar to those exposed by the former government contractor.

The exchange between Putin and Snowden appeared to be a piece of theater crafted by the Kremlin and designed to embarrass the Obama administration amid heightened tensions between the U.S. and Russia over Ukraine.

“I’ve seen little public discussion of Russia’s own involvement in the policies of mass surveillance,” Snowden, a former government contractor facing espionage charges in the U.S., told Putin via video message.

“So I’d like to ask you: Does Russia intercept, store or analyze in any way the communications of millions of individuals? And do you believe that simply increasing the effectiveness of intelligence or law enforcement investigations can justify placing societies, rather than subjects, under surveillance?”

In response, Putin said that bulk collection programs “cannot exist’ under Russian law.


more...

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/203748-in-response-to-snowden-putin-denies-nsa-like-spying

[leeroysphitz]

1. Justice...

Last edited Thu Apr 17, 2014, 10:56 AM - Edit history (1)

Snowden is the snitch we need.

[babylonsister]

2. Embarrassing our country...you call it justice?

I can think of other words for it. And there are probably a lot more ways to attain 'justice' than this.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

8. In order for our country to be embarrassed, we had to have done something wrong. So,

does the vitriol over Snowden's adjudged wrongdoing any worse than the wrongdoing he exposed?

Why would we be embarrassed by his call-in question and not embarrassed by the activity that caused his, and our, situation?

[pnwmom]

33. By this action he's shown that he is Russia's puppet. And that's despicable. n/t

[Jesus Malverde]

11. Sometimes the country needs to be embarrassed sister.

Embarrassed for spending on weapons instead of schools, spending on prisons instead of seniors and most of all...

Touting itself as the land of FREEDOM when it's actually the largest most complete SURVEILLANCE state in the history of Humankind.

[TBF]

19. ^^ Agree.

Putin's a thug and who the hell knows who is paying Snowden (if anyone).

But I don't think those things preclude us from taking a serious look at the NSA and figuring out if all of this data collection is really necessary. Many of us were concerned about the Patriot Act from the get go, and it obviously did not start with the current administration. Why continue Bush's nonsense?

[Jesus Malverde]

20. Its a side show and a distraction to keep us looking forward.

Lest we look back and see all we've lost.

[TBF]

23. I hear ya.

[RandoLoodie]

51. this country has plenty to be embarrassed about.

[Vashta Nerada]

63. Our country deserves to be embarrassed.

Look at how the government treats its citizens, for one.

[L0oniX]

3. Snap!

[treestar]

4. How could that embarrass anyone but Eddie and Vlad?

Vlad is so clearly lying, Eddie has to know that - to even ask the question proves it is theater as even Eddie knows the answer is a lie. Good grief. He is really going to attempt to prove that Vlad's Russia is a better society than the US when it comes to espionage. Come on.

[JimDandy]

70. Asking the question was not theatre any more than call-in shows are theatre here.

Last edited Fri Apr 18, 2014, 11:35 AM - Edit history (1)

The Russian president hosts an annual call in show where anyone can ask him a question. Snowden's question sounds confrontational to me. I'm assuming the calls were screened (just like call-in shows do here) and that the screeners asked Snowden the question he wanted to pose and that the question was checked and pre-fed to Putin. Putin's answer isn't believable, but that's what you'd expect in the circumstances. For someone who's a guest of the country at the largess of the President, that does seem like a very bold thing to do. But then Snowden is all about doing things boldly.

Eta: Snowden's question was apparently not just pre-checked, but pre-recorded.

[el_bryanto]

5. He's probably trying to keep the Russians happy given his precarious position

I don't know how seriously we should take Putins statements that Russia just isn't allowed to spy. I don't know how seriously he takes it (we'll see if Greenwald comments on this).

Bryant

[bemildred]

17. +1.

Putin doesn't seem to say they wouldn't, he says they can't, plus some blather about how it is impossible under Russian law. Right.

But I think he is right about the "can't", it's easy to collect the data, but collecting it all is counter-productive. Making the haystack bigger doesn't improve the yield of needles. And analyzing data is expensive, hence the constant search for ways to do it by machine: face-recognition, DNA samples, keyword searches, Google itself.

[pnwmom]

34. Or maybe he's been a Russian spy all along. n/t

[KittyWampus]

6. I think he ended up being a cog in someone else's wheel from the very beginning.

It's probable he was groomed from the start.

[leftyladyfrommo]

24. I agree with you.

I kind of doubt that he meant to end up the way he did. But I do think that now he is just a cog in someone else's wheel. And it's a very anti-American wheel.

[RKP5637]

58. Yep, he's now a cog, and probably a cog with limited options, so it would appear either

directly or indirectly he has to go along with the drift of Putin. All these countries spy, it's survival of the establishment. To me, it was a DUH question to elicit a specific response. That said, I don't agree with all of the spying in the US, I think it's gone overboard ... just saying, I bet he is now a controlled cog. To me, at least, he has limited options if he wants to survive. He could be wiped out easily if he became an irritant to the Russian establishment.

[grasswire]

28. put down the spy novels....nt

[pnwmom]

36. We don't need them when they're going on in real life right in front of us. n/t

[GeorgeGist]

7. Your knee-jerk reflex is one of the goals.

Putin thanks you AND Snowden for playing.

[KittyWampus]

10. stop projecting.

[JaneyVee]

9. He flipped, and given Russia's stranglehold, it

Was inevitable.

[grasswire]

31. you mean....Obama forced him to stay in Russia...

....knowing that it was inevitable he would "flip"?

Please.

[hack89]

12. He is at Putin's mercy - Snowden has to perform when ordered to. nt

[randome]

13. Someone should have asked what law is that?

Is Putin saying that Russia is forbidden from spying on other countries? Nyet!

The NSA, too, is forbidden from mass collection of domestic data. The one exception is the metadata phone records, which are stored in a lock box unless needed.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[KurtNYC]

14. (Yakov Smirnof accent): In Russia whistle blows YOU.

(couldn't resist)

[arely staircase]

15. earning his pay nt

[Polito Vega]

16. Who is paying him?

Source?

[arely staircase]

18. use your inferencing skills nt

[Orangepeel]

21. "piece of theater crafted by the Kremlin"

I doubt it was his idea.

[Whisp]

22. Putin is the Shitz:

#aid=P2OF4GV74wA

[bunnies]

25. Im curious to know what Snowden thought of being called a spy.

Curious choice of words, Id say.

[leftyladyfrommo]

67. I wondered about that, too. n/t

[MohRokTah]

26. I think he wants to destroy this nation.

That's what people like him do.

[grasswire]

30. "people like him"?

Who would that be? Whistleblowers under the Obama administration?

[MohRokTah]

32. Spies. eom

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. I know this probably never crossed your mind

"Under duress" those words have meanng. Key in the write up, "piece of theater crafted by the Kremlin."

[LittleBlue]

29. I don't think he had much of a choice

Russia sees itself as doing him a favor for shielding him from US justice/CIA, so it expects something in return. He's not really in a position to turn them down.

[RKP5637]

59. +1, n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Putin said essentially the same thing that Obama and the NSA said.

[GliderGuider]

37. It may be his way of pointing out that all nations say (and therefore do) the same things.

Nice piece of drama, though. I suspect it took balls.

[RKP5637]

60. Exactly! Any nation that does not, does not have long term survival in mind. It's been

going on for eons. That said, I do think the US has gone overboard.

[Jefferson23]

38. To me it is pretty obvious. Putin is now on the record, once anything else documented comes out

indicating otherwise, the chips will fall where ever. Think about how the Russian dissenters can use
this in the future.

[NCTraveler]

39. When someone with the intellect of Snowden is put up against Putin and his people...

It isn't "Can anyone tell me what Snowden is trying to accomplish?", as Snowden is being used as a tool. Snowden seems to be just dim enough to be used by much smarter people, while being just smart enough for these people to feel comfortable using him in public.

Putin: "Hey Snowden, if you did this it would be great for you."
Snowden: "Brilliant, I will do it!!!"

On a side note, Snowden is not collecting any of our data and is truly insignificant at this point except to those who want to use him against the US. He is, at this point, a stooge. The NSA is the real problem. Snowden is Putins problem.

[grasswire]

40. I really am laughing out loud.

The attempts to marginalize this man keep getting more and more bizarre.

[alarimer]

41. Yes, and if he had done this in the Bush administration, he would be universally lauded here.

I'm just laughing at the hypocrisy.

[NCTraveler]

43. Way too much of it is about the man.

Either side of the spectrum. The problem is the NSA, not Snowden. Some think he needs to be marginalized, some think he is a hero. I go more along the lines of pseudo-hero as his actions have brought to light the blatant disregard of all branches of government with respect to constitutional abuse. Snowden doing what he has done here, at the request of the Putin regime, speak volumes about Snowden the person. He has become a tool. Snowden at this point is insignificant, the NSA is not.

[Hekate]

42. KnR to read thread later. >shaking my head<

[muriel_volestrangler]

44. In his own words:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024838399

[B Calm]

45. Snowden, yawn. .

[stevenleser]

46. Three words: EARNING HIS KEEP

And "earning his keep" is going to involve being Putin's useful idiot from time to time. He may be participating enthusiastically or under duress. We don't know.

But it is his own choices that put him in that situation.

The irony is delicious. He's helping Russia/Putin try to create the illusion that it does not listen in on phone conversations and read emails and internet posts in their country when their own laws and internal ministers have claimed they do. This all while claiming that he uncovered another government doing those very things and that discovery led him to break numerous laws and upend his life. Now he is an apologist for it in another country.

Anyone who doesn't see this makes Snowden and anything he has claimed and any documents he says he uncovered completely non-credible is a complete shill for Snowden and also non-credible on the subject.

[sendero]

47. Snowden got stranded in..

... a country that was not his destination, thanks to US. Now, he is utterly dependent on getting his asylum renewed every year.

Exactly what do you think he should do? Oh I know, come back to the US and face life imprisonment. Well, I have no doubt that is what some of the dumbasses here would do, but he's not that dumb.

[babylonsister]

48. So you think this is acceptable. I don't. nt

[sendero]

49. I think..

... he has no choice. I'm not even sure what your point is, or if you even have one.

[randome]

50. Putin could fly him anywhere his itty bitty heart desired.

Why hasn't he?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[BeyondGeography]

53. He's a smart one all right...smarted himself right into a corner

He has no principles, though, which will serve him well. He has connived his way into the global media spotlight. He will keep conniving in order to survive. As we saw yesterday, even if it means being Putin's lackey, he won't mind.

[sendero]

54. As soon as you have the guts.

.... to blow the whistle on a massive unconstitutional operation then you can speak to others' principles. Crickets, yeah that's what I thought. Not in your past or ever in your future, nothing.

If you have the reading comprehension of a 3 year old you understand my point, he has no choice but to play ball in Russia, that's where the US stranded him.

[BeyondGeography]

57. Haha, yeah...guts

Obviously bored 29-year-old with no loyalty to anything but his ego dupes co-workers into giving him the info he needs to escape from it all and be a bright, shiny object.

If the world ran on your concept of guts there wouldn't be much of one.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

68. spot-on n/t

[babylonsister]

65. You don't have to be so insulting to get your opinion across, ya know.

I can tell this upsets you. I'm just trying to understand where Snowden is coming from, and I still don't get it, though you haven't provided any info to clarify his stance.
Maybe we'll never know.

[randome]

55. He's smart like this guy.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[stevenleser]

69. I think that is unfair to Wile E.

You can see the method and thought process in Wile E.'s actions. You can see what he is trying to accomplish (capture and eat the roadrunner) He even tries to order the right equipment for the job. It just never turns out.

Snowden's decisions and motivations are unclear and not well thought out.

[lostincalifornia]

56. Have to disagree. He got "stranded" because of his stupidity. What an intelligent person would

have done is get to the destination of the country you wanted before releasing any information.

He decided to release the information first, and then start looking for a country for refuge. Not too bright

[randome]

52. He is trying to accomplish something he could never do before.

Be well liked.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[Rex]

61. Sounds like he is pissing people off that already hated his guts for exposing the NSA.

Looks like authoritarians are poo pooing all over themselves, how sad but totally expected.

[Blue_Tires]

62. Not even god knows...

But if it was one of those metaphorical given-an-offer-he-couldn't-refuse type of deals, at least it makes a tiny bit of sense...

Or maybe at the end of the day Snowden truly is a useful idiot...

[randome]

64. He's the 'Carl Sagan' of intelligence matters.

"Billions and billions of emails..."
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[Jesus Malverde]

66. Hey sister, If exposing the largest most comprehensive surveillance state

in the history of mankind seems confusing....

Perhaps you need to spend some time studying the history of peoples and their struggles against authoritarian regimes.

That the "good guys" are currently in charge of these programs doesn't diminish how incredibly wrong they are.

There is no gray area when it comes to the surveillance state.

BTW, I am replying to this thread from overseas, so all replies will be captured and analyzed by the NSA, watch what you say, because they are watching YOU.