Snowden: Vladimir Putin must be called to account on surveillance just like Obama

[muriel_volestrangler]

I questioned the Russian president live on TV to get his answer on the record, not to whitewash him

Edward Snowden
theguardian.com, Friday 18 April 2014 05.06 BST

The question was intended to mirror the now infamous exchange in US Senate intelligence committee hearings between senator Ron Wyden and the director of national intelligence, James Clapper, about whether the NSA collected records on millions of Americans, and to invite either an important concession or a clear evasion. (See a side-by-side comparison of Wyden's question and mine here.)

Clapper's lie – to the Senate and to the public – was a major motivating force behind my decision to go public, and a historic example of the importance of official accountability.

In his response, Putin denied the first part of the question and dodged on the latter. There are serious inconsistencies in his denial – and we'll get to them soon – but it was not the president's suspiciously narrow answer that was criticised by many pundits. It was that I had chosen to ask a question at all.
...
The investigative journalist Andrei Soldatov, perhaps the single most prominent critic of Russia's surveillance apparatus (and someone who has repeatedly criticised me in the past year), described my question as "extremely important for Russia". It could, he said, "lift a de facto ban on public conversations about state eavesdropping."
...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/18/vladimir-putin-surveillance-us-leaders-snowden

[AverageJoe90]

1. Sounds like he's playing us now. I'm not falling for it. nt

[Blue_Tires]

25. +1

Snowden and his circle are surprisingly PR conscious...They saw the reaction online yesterday, and even his most loyal supporters had to step back for a minute to say "WTF did I just see?"

And just like clockwork, the Guardian is only too quick to print his trademark "revisionist explanation without really explaining anything" 24 hours later...

[frylock]

37. explain to me how this was of any benefit to Putin..

if someone were to ask the same question of Obama, and Obama were to lie and state that, no, American citizens we're not having their data collected, would that person be considered Obama's lapdog in your eyes? I would imagine when Putin stated that Russia was not collecting the data of their citizens, many of those people rolled their eyes and yelled BULLSHIT. Snowden owned Putin on this. Fucking owned him.

[arely staircase]

41. how is pitching set up softball questions to any politician to their benefit? nt

[frylock]

45. you believe Putin was telling the truth?

[arely staircase]

50. no. nt

[frylock]

52. okay, so you think the people of Russia are stupid morons?

[arely staircase]

57. no. but while you can't fool all the people all the time

you can fool all people some time and some people all the time.

[frylock]

61. that's really profound

[Blue_Tires]

56. This was an immense PR coup by Putin, and there's no other way to look at it

Not only does he get to validate and justify his own increasingly invasive surveillance operations (while getting in a jab at the USA in the process), he just got the implicit seal of approval on national TV from the world's most famous fighter of surveillance abuses...

At least when Obama says it, the media in this country will check it out...If you're thinking that Russian journalists en masse are going to be inspired all of a sudden to investigate the FSB, it doesn't work that way since investigative journalists typically get imprisoned/kidnapped/shot...Some citizens might be saying "bullshit", but Putin has long been spinning the narrative into "Hey, at least we're nowhere near as bad as the USA..." and he's made it stick...

If Snowden really wanted to "own" Putin, he would have had chapter and verse of recent surveillance abuses (Fun fact: Unlike the U.S., Russia doesn't have anywhere near the number of laws or oversight of their intelligence agencies)...Instead, he set up a softball question on a tee and Putin hit it a country mile...As far as Snowden saying with a straight face that there hasn't been much public discussion (lol) of what's been going on in Russia; well that just means Snowden doesn't read any news at all...

Snowden was a pawn in this, plain and simple; either as a willing participant or a naïve, useful idoit...There is NO way to properly spin, excuse or defend this stunt aside from the metaphorical 'gun to the head' scenario, but Snowden has gone down the "I meant to do that" -route of damage control instead...God help him....

[frylock]

66. putin is on record as lying about the surveillance state in russia..

you are asking far too much of snowden. it's not snowden's job to put putin in his place, or scold him over policies he has set.

[Blue_Tires]

74. Why not?

Last edited Fri Apr 18, 2014, 07:42 PM - Edit history (2)

If it's "not his job", why in fuck's name is he even asking? And if it's not his job, why has exposing stuff in other countries all this time been "his job"?

You know the biggest irony of the whole thing? Just like the question, Putin's response was set on a tee and begging to be smashed for a grand slam...But for some strange reason all Snowden can say in his damage-control op-ed is "hmmmm...Interesting response--Maybe some journalists will look into it further..." (like there hasn't been a metric ton of stories already written about Russia from news sites all over the globe)...Nevermind the fact that the reason why Snowden fled his country and forced the issue is because he was tired of sitting and waiting for "journalists to look into it further"... And all Greenwald can say about the whole thing is "Isn't Snowden brave and full of integrity? Why don't all you haters leave him alone!!" (Do I even need to post links to all the American journalists not named Greenwald who have systematically destroyed Putin's claim today?)

For all their bullshit the past 11 months about privacy rights, civil liberties, transparency, tearing apart lies coming out of Washington and exposing government wrongdoing, this is a not only complete abdication of any kind of moral or ethical responsibility, all of my criticisms about hypocrisy, sensationalism and selective outrage have been vindicated (there's that word again)

EDIT: Andrei Soldatov, the journalist Snowden cites? Said today on twitter that Snowden nor his people have ever approached him for a chat (nor have they approached any other Russian investigative journalists...Now why would that be?)

[frylock]

77. so what can snowden do, short of punching putin in the cock on satellite TV, to satisfy you?

[Blue_Tires]

80. For starters?

In his Guardian piece he could have at the BARE MINIMUM linked to these stories to prove Putin a liar beyond a doubt and bolstered his argument, instead of his usual "saying something without saying nothing style" (in fact, the writing style does hint strongly that Greenwald himself wrote it for Snowden):


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/17/sorry-snowden-putin-lied-to-you-about-his-surveillance-state-and-made-you-a-pawn-of-it.html

http://mrmeangenes.com/2013/10/30/russia-dont-look-at-us-when-we-are-spying/

http://thedailybanter.com/2014/02/meanwhile-in-greenwalds-brazil-and-snowdens-russia/

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2012/mar/11/journalist-safety-vladimir-putin

http://www.wired.com/2012/11/russia-surveillance/all/

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/04/the-lies-edward-snowden-tells/360893/

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-10-21/business/sns-rt-us-russia-internet-20131021_1_spy-agency-draft-order-fsb

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/04/16/russias-largest-social-network-says-no-to-censorship/?gv_hidebutton_used=header-banner&gv_hidebutton_expiration=30

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/26/why-is-russia-leaking-all-these-private-phone-calls.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-will-spy-on-everyone-at-the-sochi-olympics-2013-10

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/04/17/putin-told-edward-snowden-that-russia-doesnt-use-mass-surveillance-on-its-citizens-heres-a-reality-check/

http://pando.com/2014/03/20/putin-ramps-up-internet-censorship-citing-google-and-snowden-to-ensure-public-support/

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/business/global/nsa-leaks-stir-plans-in-russia-to-control-net.html?_r=0


And that's from not even 5 mins of searching...If Snowden wasn't prepared to *DO* anything, why even bother being part of the charade and enabling increased surveillance? Why are Snowden, Greenwald and DU still continuing to play dumb on this?

[grasswire]

82. you may have a lot of links...

....but you apparently know very little about strategy.

[frylock]

83. these people have never played a game of poker in their lives..

these are the folks touting Obama's n-dimensional chess every damn day.

[Blue_Tires]

85. What if I told you Snowden isn't playing chess,

but Putin is? Snowden is the piece, and his trove of information is the board...

[frylock]

87. this was of no benefit whatsoever to putin!

keep fucking that chicken.

[Blue_Tires]

84. Oh, for the love of god...

Last edited Fri Apr 18, 2014, 07:31 PM - Edit history (1)

if there is *anything* even slightly resembling "strategy" from what Snowden is doing, please illustrate it for me...I'm dead serious, because clearly you know something about this whole stunt that I don't...

I love how people are trying to retroactively change the narrative to "Snowden wasn't used; this was his first step in some master plan!" Folks are almost stretching into the fourth dimension trying to find some way to justify this...

And thanks for not reading the links or bothering to educate yourself on exactly what has been going on in Russia

[grasswire]

89. you'll never get it.

You'll never ever get it.

Just as some people never got what MLK was trying to accomplish, or Ghandi, or any of the others who offered up their own lives for a greater good.

The surveillance state(s) is/are the enemy of the people. Snowden has achieved his goal. He began the conversation, believing that people have a right to know what is done in their name.

It's really that simple. No matter what happens, he already has won. The bell has been rung, and can never be un-rung.

Nothing any of us says will ever detract from that. Nothing anyone can do to him will ever detract from that.

No amount of ridicule, libel, slander will ever detract from that. No physical attack on him will ever detract from that. No imprisonment, abandonment, torture will ever detract from that.

The bell was rung. Done.

[Blue_Tires]

92. So Snowden is now on the same level as Ghandi and MLK?

Yup...No cult of personality going on here at all...

Uh -- You still didn't outline or highlight whatever the hell strategy is being supposedly played here...Last I checked, the surveillance state in Russia didn't magically vanish just because Snowden asked a staged question on national TV...

The other major difference is Ghandi and MLK believed in freedom for everyone and spoke out against oppression everywhere...Dare I say Snowden has been more than a little selective in what he considers "good" versus "bad" spying...

[Number23]

91. Fabulous post. Amazing.

[randome]

2. Oh, he's a wiley one, that Edward!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[flamingdem]

32. +1

[arely staircase]

3. it isn't working, vlad nt

[arely staircase]

4. is there any criticism of Putins surveillance in there? nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. Yes:

When this event comes around next year, I hope we'll see more questions on surveillance programs and other controversial policies. But we don't have to wait until then. For example, journalists might ask for clarification as to how millions of individuals' communications are not being intercepted, analysed or stored, when, at least on a technical level, the systems that are in place must do precisely that in order to function. They might ask whether the social media companies reporting that they have received bulk collection requests from the Russian government are telling the truth.

Link goes to:

Russia to monitor 'all communications' at Winter Olympics in Sochi

Exclusive: Investigation uncovers FSB surveillance system – branded 'Prism on steroids' – to listen to all athletes and visitors

Athletes and spectators attending the Winter Olympics in Sochi in February will face some of the most invasive and systematic spying and surveillance in the history of the Games, documents shared with the Guardian show.

Russia's powerful FSB security service plans to ensure that no communication by competitors or spectators goes unmonitored during the event, according to a dossier compiled by a team of Russian investigative journalists looking into preparations for the 2014 Games.
...
The journalists, Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan, who are experts on the Russian security services, collated dozens of open source technical documents published on the Zakupki government procurement agency website, as well as public records of government oversight agencies. They found that major amendments have been made to telephone and Wi-Fi networks in the Black Sea resort to ensure extensive and all-permeating monitoring and filtering of all traffic, using Sorm, Russia's system for intercepting phone and internet communications.
...
Another target may well be gay rights, likely to be one of the biggest issues of the Games. Putin has said that competitors who wear rainbow pins, for example, will not be arrested under the country's controversial new law that bans "homosexual propaganda". However, it is likely that any attempts to stage any kind of rally or gathering to support gay rights will be ruthlessly broken up by police, as has been the case on numerous occasions in Russian cities in the past. Using DPI, Russian authorities will be able to identify, tag and follow all visitors to the Olympics, both Russian and foreign, who are discussing gay issues, and possibly planning to organise protests.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/06/russia-monitor-communications-sochi-winter-olympics

Guess what the first comment on DU was when that was posted here? Inevitably, it was snark about Snowden. In fact, there were an incredible number of childish posts calling Snowden names. As someone said, it looks Pavlovian.

So, yes, Snowden does criticise the Russian surveillance system.

[arely staircase]

8. I took the first part to be a jab at obama

A sort of 'well the russians may do bad shit but Oboma is the truly bad guy". The other stuff you posted wasnt to be found in Snowden's missive.

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. Well, then, I'm glad to have corrected you on that

The other stuff was linked to, by Snowden. It's part of his case.

[arely staircase]

11. we shall see

If he is really calling Putin out, what do you think the consequences will be?

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. I don't know what the consequences will be

It's possible that it could affect future decisions about allowing him to remain in Russia; they might just decide to not let him speak in the Russian media again, so that there aren't any more awkward questions.

In Russia, he's on the outside of the surveillance community, looking in, like anyone else living there - he's got no secrets to disclose, and he's not realistically going to be able to be an investigative journalist there. So he's stuck with pointing out what others find - as we do, on DU.

[arely staircase]

13. fair enough nt

[frylock]

38. of course you did, because that's your default setting.

[arely staircase]

44. and yours is what?

what do you mostly do on a Democratic message board? support democrats at all?

[frylock]

47. i'm more into policy than i am personality..

I'm not even registered as a Democrat, I just vote for them. but apparently anything less than 101% fealty is frowned upon.

[arely staircase]

49. your not a Democrat?

there's a shocker. Never would have guessed that.

[frylock]

54. hey, you're welcome for all the votes..

I could stop voting dem if that's your desire.

[arely staircase]

59. do what you feel is right nt

[frylock]

62. all damn day

[Edim]

72. Everybody should criticize his own side.

Criticizing the other side is futile.

[arely staircase]

73. that is my point

he didn't criticize Putin (his side) at all.

[TreasonousBastard]

5. Screw Snowden...

We all know perfectly well that the guy who once ran the KGB is spying on everyone he can think of. And a few more, just in case.

But, Russia is a sovereign country and who the hell is going to call out Putin or do anything about it? We can't get our own government to stop spying.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

6. snowden is all about his own fame

anyone that believe he has done ANY of this as some sort of 'vigilante', 'martyr', or even 'Robin Hood' type are sorely mistaken. this was true from the beginning.

sP

[B Calm]

9. YAWN

[pipoman]

14. Is he still there?

If so he may be getting close to over staying his welcome. ..he'll know when he has...

[stevenleser]

16. Friends! Romans! Countrymen, lend me your ears! I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him!

If anyone here thinks that Snowden got to ask an unscripted question to Putin on Russian media, Chris Christie has a bridge he would like to sell them.

[MohRokTah]

17. Well said. eom

[stevenleser]

18. Here is the sad truth for Snowden supporters. If he survives this, it was a sham.

Russia has a pretty unequivocal record on people (reporters, even oligarchs, think Mikhail Khodorkovsky) who embarrass the regime and Putin. They are jailed, killed or disappeared or some combination thereof.

If Snowden survives this, it was a planned sham/shill event.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. So you're saying Putin supports this op-ed too?

Are you saying Putin plays 11 dimensional chess?

[theboss]

20. Putin is trying to re-establish Russia's sphere of influence

The US, NATO, and EU have pushed their influence deep into formerly Russian/Soviet territory. Putin wants to push back. But he's trying to do it through a combination of force and PR. And part of the PR is building up Russia as a champion of The Christian West. He needs to establish that Russia does have similar values to the US and EU when it comes to individual liberty - just with a Russian spin.

This is part of that.

Who are you to criticize us peacefully taking back the Crimea when your citizens live in fear of you? That sort of thing.

[stevenleser]

21. What does the evidence suggest to you? Ask Khodorkovsky and Litvinenko what they think

oh wait, you can't ask Litvinenko, Russian intelligence poisoned him with Polonium in London because he annoyed Putin one time too many. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko

Khodorkovsky will happily tell you how ruthless Putin is with those who criticize him, and he was a billionaire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khodorkovsky#Relationship_with_Vladimir_Putin . As will the scores of reporters who criticized the regime who are now dead. Oops, they can't talk now either.

If this isn't part of a plan orchestrated with Putin and the Russian government, Snowden is as good as dead.

By the way, intelligence officers do things like "11th dimensional chess", and as Putin said during his response, we're dealing with two of them.

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. The evidence suggests you're saying Putin got Snowden to write this

You think the question was agreed in advance, and this op-ed shows the question was designed to get Putin on record as denying surveillance when there's good (and unsurprising) evidence that it's pervasive in Russia. So you're saying Putin wanted to put himself in an embarrassing situation. For no apparent reason.

Yes, Putin is pretty ruthless. I think Snowden is taking a big risk - while his death in Russia seems unlikely (he's already too much in the world spotlight, and for it to happen in Russia, where Putin is meant to be able to control what happens, looks bad), it could mean he gets kicked out, which could mean arrest and imprisonment by the US government, still eager to make an example of him.

[stevenleser]

24. Putin doesn't care about the publicity. If he did, he wouldn't have killed Litvinenko like he did.

He chose to kill Litvinenko in a way that was both painful and drawn out on the one hand and public and a warning to others who might cross him on the other. FSB/GRU/SVR is well versed in killing people in ways to make it look like an accident if the order had called for that. No, Putin WANTED Litvinenko's death to send a public message and he didnt care at all that it would be obvious he had him killed and would generate controversy.

Who would take Putin to task for killing or disappearing Snowden? Do you think any western government would do more than lodge a tepid complaint? Do you think Putin would face criticism in Russia for it? Russia/Russians despise(s) traitors and that is how they regard Snowden. A useful traitor. No one in Russia is going to stick their necks out to criticize Putin for what they regard as a useful traitor.

Do you think Putin cares that some small grassroots groups in the US and Europe would be unhappy if Snowden disappeared or had an "accident"?

Here is the likeliest scenario in my opinion. The video question was staged to make Snowden appear good for supposedly asking the question, and Putin got the chance to deny surveillance of his people. It misfired so badly that they hastily threw together this article by Snowden to try to get some semblance of legitimacy back for him. The article doesnt actually do any real criticism of Putin and does just enough that Snowden might regain credibility in the eyes of his hardcore supporters. You yourself are proof enough of that.

Putin would have no problems killing or disappearing Snowden. In fact, if he ever annoys Putin, I expect they will disappear him quickly and simply not respond to questions about him or claim they put him on a plane somewhere to be safe. And we would never hear about him again.

Putin has approved everything that Snowden has done since landing in Russia, or Snowden would no longer be among the living. It's that simple.

[NCTraveler]

28. "might regain credibility in the eyes of his hardcore supporters."

Don't like to sound this harsh, but if this statement regains any credibility with anyone, they aren't hardcore supporters, they are people with an agenda bending reality to confirm their preconceived notions.

[stevenleser]

31. I am trying to be generous to fellow DUers who are prolly struggling with cognitive dissonance

They have been true believers for so long that this has to be hard for them.

Most of them will get there, I think???

[NCTraveler]

33. I do think most of them will get it. Not all, but most.

Focus need to be back on the NSA. The sooner Snowden loses relevance with his detractors and supporters, the sooner the conversation can get back to where it needs to be.

[frylock]

42. more projection

[arely staircase]

48. projection?

so it is actually steven who controls snowden and will kill him if he is disloyal? because that is the only way what he wrote is projection.

[frylock]

51. hunh?

the projection was the cognitive dissonance of a true believer.

[arely staircase]

53. invest in a dictionary

it will save you more embarrassment.

[frylock]

55. i'll get right on that sir!

I'm wondering why the fuck I ever took you off my ignore list.

[arely staircase]

64. me too

please put me back on. I don't put people on ignore. but please return me to yours.

[frylock]

65. adios muchacho

[arely staircase]

46. right on the money, steven

as usual

[Tarheel_Dem]

34. +1

[frylock]

39. how was this of any benefit to Putin?

[SidDithers]

40. And boom goes the dynamite...nt

Sid

[Blue_Tires]

23. Great...Now he's playing the "I meant to do that" -card to save face?

Last edited Fri Apr 18, 2014, 12:29 PM - Edit history (2)

At this point, either Snowden has gone crazy or he's just trying to insult everyone's intelligence (although I have no doubt that a lot of people will buy it hook, like and sinker judging by the free comments on the guardian site)

Is this some kind of game to him? Is this MTV's 'Punk'd'?

Is Snowden so insane that he thinks the good old American-style "Setup and big reveal" will work on Putin? He realizes Putin deals with "accountability" using ropes, burlap bags and bullets through the skull, right? Does he have any clue that Putin is very shrewd, very paranoid and has a fanatical hatred of people disloyal to him?

Does Snowden even have any credibility since he has clearly would have been actively ignoring Russian surveillance abuses all this time? Does Greenwald?

When Snowden said there has been little public discussion about the issue; has he, you know, read a SINGLE news outlet in the past 5-10 years (or even the past 6 months)? Pretty much everybody NOT named Greenwald, Poitras or Assange has had *something* to say about it -- And I refuse to believe those three aren't being intentionally ignorant in the face of such overwhelming evidence...

Is Snowden really about to bite the hand that has been feeding and protecting him?

Does Snowden realize no country on the planet will give him asylum after watching him turn against his Russian benefactors? Federal prison ironically might be the last safe place he could go...

[sufrommich]

26. Anyone who believes that his question to Putin

was not pre-approved along with the answer being carefully crafted ahead of time is painfully naive.

[NCTraveler]

27. He has gone so far that no one can back him up on this.

The nice thing, as Snowden keeps desperately trying to make the story about him, he will make statements like this that turn off his most adamant supporters. Not one person is stupid enough to believe he was calling Putin out. The sooner Snowden hits bottom, the faster all attention can be put squarely on the NSA.

[2banon]

29. And that's up to the Russian Citizens

It will be interesting to see how that evolves. But I'm concerned about the citizens in the United States accepting the very thing that we've condemned the Soviet police state apparatus for generations.

[tridim]

30. Snowjob has such a brilliant mind that he doesn't even notice the puppet strings.

Fully DERP-worthy.

Russia is your new home Snowy and Putin is your boss, forever. Congratulations on the bed you've made for yourself, idiot.

[Tarheel_Dem]

35. I can't wait to hear Bill Maher's take on this. He thinks Snowden's a fuckin' idiot, and I agree.

[mimi85]

36. As do I.

Interesting article from the LA Times. Check out the pic and how far away Putin keeps the microphones. He's beyond a scary guy and Snowden is a complete tool.


http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-edward-snowden-putin-spying-20140417,0,4840504.story#axzz2zGHvYelj

[HipChick]

43. That's what I think too..his goose is cooked...Russian style

[Tarheel_Dem]

76. Yup. Stick a fork in him, he's pretty much done. NPR seems to agree. Even people who've supported

him heavily, thought this was a bridge too far.

[elias49]

60. Who cares what Bill Maher thinks. Seriously.

You have to be kidding or you're just being silly.

"According to Bill Maher' the once humorous stand up comedian..."

[Tarheel_Dem]

75. Yet he's still on the air, after all these years. Must suck for you, huh?

[elias49]

93. Nah. I just stopped watching a few months ago.

that's how it's done.
The guy's tired and I got sick of his adolescent jokes.
Plus, did you ever notice how he started browbeating his audience when they didn't laugh at the jokes in his monologue? That's no way to win over a studio.
But keep on with your adoration. I don't mind.

[WillyT]

58. K & R !!!

[Cali_Democrat]

68. Sorry Willy, but ya gotta admit that Snowden really screwed himself

by appearing on a Russian state TV Putin propaganda show and asking him staged question.

What was he thinking?

Or maybe he actually had no choice, if you know what I mean.

[grasswire]

63. Snowden is on the right side of history.

I blew the whistle on the NSA's surveillance practices not because I believed that the United States was uniquely at fault, but because I believe that mass surveillance of innocents – the construction of enormous, state-run surveillance time machines that can turn back the clock on the most intimate details of our lives – is a threat to all people, everywhere, no matter who runs them.

Last year, I risked family, life, and freedom to help initiate a global debate that even Obama himself conceded "will make our nation stronger". I am no more willing to trade my principles for privilege today than I was then.

I understand the concerns of critics, but there is a more obvious explanation for my question than a secret desire to defend the kind of policies I sacrificed a comfortable life to challenge: if we are to test the truth of officials' claims, we must first give them an opportunity to make those claims.

No matter how long the naysayers flap their gums about Snowden, he is just plain right. That will never change, no matter what happens to him. And he's in the cat bird's seat -- if anything ill happens to him, he'll be martyred and his influence will grow even greater. He has won already.

[frylock]

67. but but but why doesn't snowden care about the surveillance state in russia?

err umm why doesn't snowden kick putin in the balls? nothing will ever be enough for the apologists.

[Douglas Carpenter]

69. that's a smearmater for you - just like his buddy - Smearmaster Greenwald

He smeared Bush. He smeared Obama and now he is smearing Putin. They never have anything positive to say about anybody!!

[elfin]

70. He fell (or raced) into Putin's lap

And now he is screwn. A pawn, whether willing or not. Putin's new toy.

Once his value to Pootie Poot is diminished, so will be his living conditions or perhaps even his very existence.

[ProSense]

71. So

The question was intended to mirror the now infamous exchange in US Senate intelligence committee hearings between senator Ron Wyden and the director of national intelligence, James Clapper, about whether the NSA collected records on millions of Americans, and to invite either an important concession or a clear evasion. (See a side-by-side comparison of Wyden's question and mine here.)

...after all the excuses, including the claim that he can't speak freely, his own excuse is that he really is trying to hold Putin accountable by asking a lame-ass question, a "test"? He envisioned himself as "Wyden" and Putin as "Clapper" in framing the question? That's beyond bizarre.

This was for a Russian audience, which amplifies the propaganda aspect of this scripted event (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024839105). Russia is actively silencing dissent, and Snowden's question was basically an act of complicity.

His allies are attempting to spin his current op-ed as something it's not. It's simply another ass-covering attempt for another humiliating event. Also, if the goal is holding Putin accountable, a lame-ass question at a Putin propaganda show isn't the way to do it. What's preventing Snowden from doing so via any of his media allies or in a statement...you know, like his Christmas message. (LOL!)

Putin's show promoted his propaganda to its intended audience, Russians. Snowden's op-ed attempts to spin it to the rest of the world.

Snowden is a tool.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024839623

[grasswire]

78. Keep flapping.

No minds are being changed by naysayers here. None. None. It's futile to keep chipping away at Snowden, who is on the right side of history. The more he is attacked, the more his influence grows. Keep flapping.

[ProSense]

79. Too funny

"No minds are being changed by naysayers here. None. None. It's futile to keep chipping away at Snowden, who is on the right side of history. The more he is attacked, the more his influence grows. Keep flapping."

The reason for the cover-his-ass op-ed is because he made a fool of himself. A lot of people who once gave him the benefit of the doubt saw him play Putin's fool.

I'd say the he's the one "flapping," and the more he does it, the more damage he does to the shred of credibility he has.

[grasswire]

81. Flap away.

Few people who aren't in thrall to the surveillance state see Snowden as a fool.

[Tarheel_Dem]

86. Wrong. I think you guys have come to believe your own nonsense, and that's just tragic.

Huffpo: "Americans Might Not Support Edward Snowden, But They Support Disclosing Programs"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/01/edward-snowden-support_n_5071938.html

Sadly, his latest foray won't do anything to rehabilitate his image in the minds of Americans.

[grasswire]

88. you might want to go browse the 800 or so comments...

....following his op ed over at The Guardian. 99 percent are supportive, thoughtful, intelligent and honest responses to Snowden. People from all over the English speaking world have replied to him with compliments and good wishes, and gratitude.

The batch of gum-flappers here are the outliers, apparently.

[Tarheel_Dem]

90. A scientific poll vs. the comment section of a newspaper? Hmmm. Which one to believe?

[jazzimov]

94. WTF?

I questioned the Russian president live on TV to get his answer on the record, not to whitewash him

But you actually did "whitewash" him. Now you're backtracking to say you didn't. More "whitewashing".