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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSenator Reid-WON'T BACK DOWN-Explains WHY Armed Militia At Bundy Ranch Are "Domestic Terrorists"
Last edited Sat Apr 19, 2014, 10:16 AM - Edit history (1)
Harry Reid appeared on local television Friday night to explain his reasoning behind the claim that the armed militia members at Bundy Ranch are domestic terrorists.
Senator Reid tells the truth
The simplicity of his answer took the entire table by surprise, I think, because there were a couple of beats of silence before the other host asked him to expand on his thoughts, which he also did.
Aside: Perhaps it would be good for the press to actually Google the term so they understood the definition before asking such a stupid question.
Reid: The National Cattlemen's Association has a wonderful branch in Nevada. I met with them last week. They pay their taxes. They pay their fees. They follow the law.
Bundy doesn't believe the American government is valid, he believes the United States is a foreign government. He doesn't pay his taxes. He doesn't follow the law. He doesn't pay his fees.
And, if anyone thinks, by any figment of their imagination that what happened up there was just people rallying to someone who was oppressed, 600 people came in. Armed. They had practiced, they had maneuvered, they knew what they were doing. They set up snipers in strategic locations with sniper rifles. They had assault weapons. They had automatic weapons, and they boasted about the fact that they put women and children -- in fact, one retired sheriff from Arizona boasted that he put women and children so they would get hit first.
MORE plus video:
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/04/harry-reid-if-these-people-are-patriots
................
UPDATES:
Paul to Reid: Cool it on Bundy ranch
"I don't think calling people names is going to calm this down," Paul said on Fox News. "I think it's liable to stir it up. So I think all parties, including Sen. Reid, should calm the rhetoric a little bit. Let's try to have a peaceful resolution to this."
more reason for Reid to NOT BACK DOWN:
Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/203860-paul-tells-reid-to-cool-rhetoric-on-nevada-ranch-dispute#ixzz2zLBwMFjY
GOP Sen: Bundy Ranch Supporters Are 'Patriots,' Not 'Domestic Terrorists'
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/gop-sen-bundy-ranch-supporters-are-patriots-not-domestic-terrorists
madokie
(51,076 posts)Keep telling it like it is.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Snipers, women and children set up as human shields.....if only they were not so white, then the media would get on the terrorism train faster than you can say jihadist.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)This whole thing was was a planned, right-wing, armed, insurrection.
It's about time these wing-nuts learned about drones and Hellfire Missiles.
But, that's just my opinion. I could be full of shit.
malaise
(268,950 posts)We already know that answer
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)see any guns on these folk?
malaise
(268,950 posts)And Fux didn't cover this either
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)Hell, if they had been Muslims, we would have re-invaded Iraq by now...
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)You're sick.
Boreal
(725 posts)grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)That's where their logic leads to.
Boreal
(725 posts)the subject of land ownership, especially in the American west? I know it's complicated (not like buying a house or lot) and involves mineral, grazing, water and other rights. Bundy owns the water rights and in the west that makes him the owner of the land, I believe (need a rancher or rural western person to weigh in). He's also not a member of the Nevada Cattle Ranchers Association who pay the fees to the BLM who are hired for some land management and assistance to ranchers. There are also lawsuits, from environmental groups, ranchers and tribes against the BLM and Dept of Interior over trying to steal water for the city of Las Vegas. There's a LOT more going on here than the general public knows or is being told. Water rights are serious shit in the west. People who live on land, are connected to that land, and make their living on it, are much more invested in the good practices of the use of that land than any mega corporations, casinos and distant municipalities. I think there's a good possibility that stealing water is what's behind all this and Las Vegas wastes a shitload of water in an arid region where water is especially precious - and they want MORE.
Federal lawsuits seek to punch holes in $15 billion Las Vegas pipeline plan
Las Vegas water managers first floated plans to tap rural groundwater in 1989. It is now being pushed as a way to supply future demand and provide a back-up supply to a community that relies on the overdrawn and drought-stricken Colorado River for 90 percent of its water.
The project is expected to reach as far north as Great Basin National Park, cost as much as $15 billion and take a decade or more to build.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/federal-lawsuits-seek-punch-holes-15-billion-las-vegas-pipeline-plan
We're talking about BIG money with Las Vegas and as we know, money talks. Many a politician and judge has been bought by it.
My all time favorite film is Chinatown which is about this very subject. If people haven't seen it, they should.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Last edited Sun Apr 20, 2014, 04:11 PM - Edit history (2)
Boreal
(725 posts)What on earth makes you think that Las Vegas has the right to steal water from the rest of Nevada or any place else - especially when other people and tribes own those rights? When I lived in Los Angeles, during a long drought, the cities had to ration water in order to provide for agriculture (you know, those people who grow the food).
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Boreal
(725 posts)ALL living things, including animals and plants. Cities hog and waste massive amounts of water. People living a rural life out west do not. They aren't running decorative fountains, fake "Venice" canals, and planing massive lawns suitable for only the east and south. And there is no "last gulp" of water. Water is always being replenished but it CAN be diverted which is what western water issues are always about and las Vegas wants to starve the rest of Nevada so a bunch of billionaires can make Sin City some kind of water wonderland. It's irresponsible and downright corrupt.
So, yeah, we ALL get to access water and, as I told you, in California the cities take a back seat to agriculture and rightly so because we all need to eat and they provide the food.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)if not the world. They use the water at least three times before returning it to the lake, they put back almost as much as they take out. Do some research about that, it's really fascinating and we should all take a page out of their book.
They are playing dirty by using out of date laws to try to buy up all the water in the state, which would kill most of, well, the rest of the state.
Boreal
(725 posts)it makes no sense to have fake canals, lakes, gigantic fountains, zillions of humongous pools, etc. Even if they claim to use this water efficiently, it's drained away from someplace else and a lot is lost to evaporation and it's all for privately owned (hotels) recreation and scenery while the actual inhabitants of the region (humans and animals) need water to live.
I agree that it's dirty and it's probably going to get a lot dirtier. Big money has big plans for Sin City. People get killed for less.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I believe it is possible to be a criminal, including against the federal government, without being a terrorist. I think the opposite view is a dangerous one. However, I realize that mine is a minority view anymore.
If someone who tells a joke about terrorists or hijackings in an airport or on a plane can be arrested under terrorist laws, why not these guys?
I don't hear the right or our media speaking out when a jokester, no matter how unfunny or funny, is arrested, but Dick Gregory spoke out against this Friday morning on Morning Joe. He said we had to be very careful about how we use the word, citing the Oklahoma massacre. So, now, it's either a joke in an airport or bombing a federal building, Dick? Taking up arms against government officials doesn't make your list?
I do agree with the general principle that both the right and the left should be more careful how they use the word. After all, our founders took up arms against the government and we call them heroes.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)People sitting in a sidewalk to protest, those guys should be arrested as traitors.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,999 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)But, that is another issue. Pay me no mind on that topic.
Anyone using humans as shields is a POS.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Response to merrily (Reply #6)
Post removed
merrily
(45,251 posts)your equating them to the private parts of women.
ETA: I don't agree that we are a country of law and order, but that is way too long a discussion and I don't even want to get into it.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)Do or do we not want to live in a society where all of its members are actually equal?
The word 'pussy' as used here refers to someone who is weak and fearful, someone who needs the assistance of others in order to act bravely or 'manly'. This usage of that word creates on a subconscious level to far too many members of our society an acceptance that women are less than men.
Just as how the vulgar use of 'race' specific words were/still are used to consciously and on a societal scale subconsciously promotes inequality between people with differing skin color and just how the vulgar use of 'religion' specific words promotes in that same way inequality between people with differing religious philosophies, the vulgar use of gender specific terms harms women.
On a larger societal scale any society which has inequalities within it's membership that are based on race, religion and sex functions crippled in that it can never take full advantage of the actual strengths of it's entire membership. How much wisdom within our society never took root because the authors were 'less than white', how many wars has our society suffered through because those who took us to war were 'strong males' with little input from our maternalistic side and more specifically were 'not pussies'? I do not know the actual meaning of the word 'progressive' but I like to think it means having the non-biased desire to have all members of our society as equals and full access to the use of their individual wisdoms. THAT is the true strength of a democracy.
I know that there are better ways of getting across what I am trying to say here. This is the Big DU where most of us come to learn. I had hoped to see fellow DUers with a better grasp at explaining things chimed in for a valuable teaching/learning experience regarding how the vulgar use of gender specific terms like 'pussy' really and truly do bring harm/promote inequality to specific members of our society and actually hurts all of us. Understandably and yet sadly the post had already been hidden as I wrote this.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I really don't know the habits of that particular poster, so this is not about him or her. However, in general, but some posters will continue a behavior unless and until it's clear that doing so will only result in a hidden post. Even then, some persist, including in a post the idea that the post will be hidden. And, frankly, I am tired of having bad things compared to women and/or gays.
Again, I emphasize that I am not accusing that poster. I am not familiar with his or her posting ways.
And I am happy to see that you had your say, whether the post was hidden or not. (Good for you!)
So, in all, I think things worked out.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Gee, no double standard here <sarcasm>
chknltl
(10,558 posts)In our society which is the more acceptable: being a 'pussy' or being a 'dick'? If you were to hold a poll, given the two options being the 'dick' wins hands down. Nobody and especially not the average macho American male, wants to be a 'pussy' and how is stuff supposed to get done if the 'guy in charge' ain't being a 'dick' from time to time? Each term refers to a part of human anatomy so in that sense they are equal but in it's vulgar usage they are surely not equal in the eyes of our society! When anyone uses the term 'dick' in it's vulgar usage they unwittingly reinforce the inequality between our sexes.
The two terms used in vulgar format should be equally unacceptable. I say this because I want to live in a society where we are all equal. I suggest that when you observe the word 'dick' being used like this by "posters, including women" on this board you mention to the user the actual harm it causes. Do so with the goal to educate instead of alienate and you will strengthen us all.
All that said, I should point out a similar double standard I am far too often guilty of here in the big DU. Like many I seek to see my name alongside something funny I posted in the weekly DUZY threads. Thankfully perhaps, others have not found such postings as humorous as I did when posting them. I am working on bettering myself but I do know that my sense of humor would often times be best appreciated by teenagers over at the Free Republic rather than by adults here. Another words I need to better guard against posting sexist/misogynistic posts thinking that they are funny when in reality I know how those posts harm us all.
factory
(5 posts)Reading about the guy hiding behind the truck, it proves the old saying right. An empty barrel makes the most noise. Just like douche bag Ted Nugent.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,999 posts)Whatever happened to the self-styled so-called Moral Majority of the late 60s early 70s and beyond who were so Republican and so adamant about the rule of Law and Order?
The modern tea partyists and right wingers are not about Law and Order at all. They are about bullying and oppressing the weaker members of society and upholding / advancing the oligarchy by any means including force.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)Snip ...
"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.
Snip ...
merrily
(45,251 posts)I think terrorism pretty much anything the govt chooses to say it is anymore.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
merrily
(45,251 posts)Never even said that I did not like the definition. Nothing personal.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It permits the government to accuse one criminal of being a terrorist and another who commits the same act of just being a criminal. It invites arbitrary application. The definition needs to be made more precise so that an act is clearly either terrorist or not and the race or opinion or personality, etc. of the person who commits the act is never the defining measure. I'm not saying that it is the defining measure now, but as written the definition invites arbitrary application.
eShirl
(18,490 posts)they're fucking losers in rebellion
edit: treason, that was the word I was looking for
Lobo27
(753 posts)Gun lunatics who avoid taxes are heroes, kids and moms who need help from the government are takers...
This.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)kpete
(71,986 posts)for getting this
EXACTLY RIGHT!!!
peace,
kp
napkinz
(17,199 posts)Blanks
(4,835 posts)Iliyah
(25,111 posts)any means necessary and fake news, hate radio and corporate media are fueling this idea.
louis-t
(23,292 posts)Someone who vigorously supports his 'country'. These people do not support their 'country'. They have no 'nationalism'. They don't think the US exists. They wave American flags, do they consider themselves American?
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)You know, like every lefty activist ever found within 1,000 yards of a bottle of gasoline or a broken window?
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)"Give it a name", they act like terrorists.
napkinz
(17,199 posts)SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Go Vols
(5,902 posts)The Shoshone refused the money. They had not agreed to sell the land. They did not agree that the land should be used for nuclear testing. Carrie and Mary Dann were Shoshone elders who stood up to the abuse. Mary walked on at age 82, in 2005. The 81-year-old Carrie was last arrested in 2007, protesting against the use of Shoshone land for nuclear weapons research.
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/04/18/how-did-i-miss-militia-god-gave-land-settlers-not-shoshone-154472
napkinz
(17,199 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)It was land held by the Territtory of Nevada before the Bundy's moved there. When Nevada became a state, it reverted to Federal ownership.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)That would be the one where you pat the guy with the gun on the back for a job well done.
Right?
Cha
(297,158 posts)sheshe2
(83,746 posts)Sure puts a new twist on the term "women and children first" when they "man" the lifeboats! What pieces of shit! They hide behind women and children. So very effing brave of them! Patriots? Please!! Cowards one and all! Sniveling bastards!
Cha
(297,158 posts)I read it before but couldn't believe someone would do that much less admit it.. I mean really.. how damn dumb do you have to be?
sheshe2
(83,746 posts)We are disposable. That is a Fact!
To hell with the pro life stance that they spout. Women and children are nothing.
I can't even begin to tell you how much this upsets me.
GOPee
(58 posts)nuff said..
mississippi62
(75 posts)Every federal employee is a target.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)defacto7
(13,485 posts)he as been allowed to be. Lawless, no consequences for actions, just lots of press, fame and fortune.
Someone wants a war and it might not only be Bundy and his cohorts.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)using legal means. Drive them to bankruptcy.
johnlucas
(1,250 posts)These sore losers haven't gotten over that loss in 150 years.
The South is not just in the Deep South like Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, The Carolinas, & Tennessee.
Historically Southerners moved out West to gain more land & in effect gain more political power in the House of Representatives through the 3/5 rule.
More land, more slaves, more representation, more control over the government.
That's why you hear a hatred of Mexicans too with this group on "illegal immigration" (Canadians can't illegally immigrate?).
Mexicans, a mixture of Native American & Spanish heritages, once lived on the lands with those Mexica/Spanish names like Texas, Arizona, California, Nevada, Colorado.
Hell one of them is directly called New Mexico!
The Mexican War was just a land grab by Southerners just like Texas was.
Pushing Natives off their land rhymes right with the Trail of Tears that pushed groups like the Cherokee from Georgia to Oklahoma.
That's why the music is called Country/Western.
Different variations of the same group of people.
The South is in the Southeast AND the Southwest.
When the Southern Confederacy got their asses handed to them in the 1860s, they were not satisfied with the results in the least & have been harboring revenge fantasies ever since.
They passed on this cultural spite to their descendants & look for any opportunity to get back at the Union one way or another.
Either by screwing with the lives of the descendants of the former slaves, demonizing the Natives (Amerinds like the Mexicans), defying the direction set by the Federal Government.
They prefer to sabotage, disrupt, & ruin in their spitefulness.
They'll put Nixons, Reagans, & Bushes in office to dismantle the government from the inside.
And they'll employ a host of tactics like this Bundy Ranch nonsense to dismantle the government from the outside.
That's what this militia/secession/rebellion nonsense is all about.
And with the very symbol of their comeuppance represented by the Black President Barack Obama, it amplifies the spiteful rebellion more than ever before.
The Hannitys of the worldmedia spokespersons of the Confederacywant to have this Bundy Ranch fiasco be the spark that sets off the New Civil War.
The New War Between the States.
You wonder why many poor White folks in these regions so consistently vote against their financial interests?
It's because they're voting for the interest of Confederacy's Revenge.
They don't care if they go down with the ship just as long as they take you down with them.
In fact, their daily struggles make them hungrier & meaner to enact a vengeful mindset.
When that 1860s war started up, the Confederate flag looked pretty much like the so-called "Betsy Ross" 1776 flag with the stars in a circle and the red & white stripes on the side (Check the Wiki & see for yourself).
First National Flag of the C.S.A.the Confederate States of America
The "Betsy Ross" 1776 Flag of the U.S.A.the United States of America
To me, that shows that the Confederacy thinks that they are the REAL United States of America & this other entity calling themselves the United States of America is a fraud.
The flags were so similar that they designed that famous battle flag from Virginia & made it the new national flag.
The Big X pattern of battle flag was more symbolic of the region's spitefulness & bitterness so it was a natural fit.
The Democratic Party which once was the storehouse & lifeforce of this spiteful faction atoned from its past with the actions of Frank Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John Kennedy, & Lyndon Johnson.
The Republican Party which once opposed that faction sold itself out by absorbing them into its very being so it can stay in power.
After that 1964 purging by the hands of LBJ, that Confederate movement could have dissipated into uselessness without an organized structure to operate from.
Instead the Republican Party ironically revitalized the force it once tried to destroy.
Now we see the results.
All of this stuff is connected. There are no coincidences here.
Every Southerner today may not subscribe to this mindset but many still do.
On paper the Civil War has LONG been over.
But in these people's minds the war has never stopped.
Rebellion by firearms, by legal maneuver, by attitudes.
It doesn't matter so long as it's a rebellion.
In their minds, the Confederacy will have its Revenge.
The South Shall Rise Again.
John Lucas
nt