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Mon Apr 21, 2014, 12:40 PM

We no longer have the rule of law in this country

Last edited Tue Apr 22, 2014, 02:03 AM - Edit history (1)

Sure, you can go to prison for stealing food if you are a serf, you can go to prison for growing a plant even. But the rule of law only applies to peasants. If you are a high government official, a thug doing their dirty work (rape, murder, torture, kidnapping, anything really) or are a billionaire that profits those in high public office (stealing billions in money or real estate, killing people by denying procedures and medicines as the "gatekeepers of health", or imprisoning people for the sake of profit) you are above the law, the law simply doesn't apply to you.

Once when these same facts were true in a monarchy that made the same distinctions regarding royalty and serf classes, there were those that rebelled against such an immune royalty which were allowed to abuse the people, steal everything from them (there homes, their health, even their lives) and face no consequences. Revolutions were fought and promises were made by the victors, Promises such as the rule of law applies to all or it applies to none. Promises that now ring hollow as the champions of a fair government slowly over time devolved back into what was and what always had been, a system of an elite few above laws possessing nearly all the wealth while laws were used exclusively against their victims - the majority that go hungry and grow sick under the rule of that elite.


We have come full circle now. Now it is common for a financial and political higher class to never have to fear laws that would imprison any commoner and we are supposed to accept this, cheer it even as the lord of our castle defeats the lord of some other castle. But the bread and circuses grow ever more scarce. The illusions of fairness ever more transparent, and the cruelties ever more severe.

If we are to follow laws that do not apply to our masters. If our masters are given the fruits of all of our labors while we search our dirt floors for crumbs as they laugh in their mansions discussing ways to extract even more from their impoverished serfs. Perhaps we are less than serfs, perhaps we are dogs that now only lick the hands of the masters that beat us. Perhaps the dream of shared prosperity and happiness has finally died within our hearts and our minds.

Perhaps we deserve our fate because we so meekly, even proudly in some cases accept it.



*this OP was inspired by this one that went largely unread as well as what is common knowledge regarding the financial elite in the speculative and banking "industries" that break laws with impunity and the blessing of our government

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Reply We no longer have the rule of law in this country (Original post)
Dragonfli Apr 2014 OP
blkmusclmachine Apr 2014 #1
KansDem Apr 2014 #2
wcollar Apr 2014 #3
Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #14
Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2014 #4
DeSwiss Apr 2014 #5
zeemike Apr 2014 #48
JDPriestly Apr 2014 #50
sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #65
BelgianMadCow Apr 2014 #6
2banon Apr 2014 #7
Dragonfli Apr 2014 #19
2banon Apr 2014 #32
Dragonfli Apr 2014 #34
xfundy Apr 2014 #35
butterfly77 Apr 2014 #8
obxhead Apr 2014 #9
daleanime Apr 2014 #55
discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2014 #66
obxhead Sep 2014 #67
discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2014 #68
MohRokTah Apr 2014 #10
2banon Apr 2014 #11
MohRokTah Apr 2014 #13
obxhead Apr 2014 #16
MohRokTah Apr 2014 #17
2banon Apr 2014 #18
Dragonfli Apr 2014 #22
2banon Apr 2014 #33
xfundy Apr 2014 #37
MohRokTah Apr 2014 #39
DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2014 #57
MohRokTah Apr 2014 #58
DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2014 #59
MohRokTah Apr 2014 #60
DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2014 #61
Dragonfli Apr 2014 #62
DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2014 #63
Dragonfli Apr 2014 #64
TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #26
Aerows Apr 2014 #29
Dragonfli Apr 2014 #20
MohRokTah Apr 2014 #21
Dragonfli Apr 2014 #23
MohRokTah Apr 2014 #24
Dragonfli Apr 2014 #25
dotymed Apr 2014 #49
MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #41
MohRokTah Apr 2014 #42
MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #43
MohRokTah Apr 2014 #44
MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #45
JDPriestly Apr 2014 #52
MohRokTah Apr 2014 #54
marions ghost Apr 2014 #12
Aerows Apr 2014 #28
Dragonfli Apr 2014 #30
marions ghost Apr 2014 #38
BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #15
Aerows Apr 2014 #27
Rex Apr 2014 #31
Enthusiast Apr 2014 #36
99Forever Apr 2014 #40
MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #46
malaise Apr 2014 #47
Jackpine Radical Apr 2014 #51
KoKo Apr 2014 #53
Feral Child Apr 2014 #56

Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 02:23 PM

1. +1,000.

 

The Feds promised us that 9/11 would "Change everything."

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 02:29 PM

2. I must admit...

We have come full circle now. Now it is common for a financial and political higher class to never have to fear laws that would imprison any commoner and we are supposed to accept this, cheer it even as the lord of our castle defeats the lord of some other castle. But the bread and circuses grow ever more scarce. The illusions of fairness ever more transparent, and the cruelties ever more severe.

If we are to follow laws that do not apply to our masters. If our masters are given the fruits of all of our labors while we search our dirt floors for crumbs as they laugh in their mansions discussing ways to extract even more from their impoverished serfs. Perhaps we are less than serfs, perhaps we are dogs that now only lick the hands of the masters that beat us. Perhaps the dream of shared prosperity and happiness has finally died within our hearts and our minds.


My empathy tank has been running on empty of late...

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 02:47 PM

3. The more things change....

Antole France, 19th century:
"Another source of pride is to be a citizen! For the poor this consists of supporting and maintaining the rich in their power and their idleness. The poor must labour in the face of the majestic equality of the laws, which forbid rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

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Response to wcollar (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 05:35 PM

14. That is reminiscent of the Supreme Ct. ruling -- Both rich and poor are free to contribute

 

as much money as they like to the political process, so it's fair!

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 02:49 PM

4. If so few are capable of governing themselves how fewer still are capable of governing others?

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 02:52 PM

5. Yep.

 

Of course we never really had freedom in the first place. But it helps us emotionally to think we can achieve it regardless of the fact that we don't really know what freedom is.

Any ''nation'' formed with millions of slaves, millions of women without the right to vote. Millions of the unlanded proletariat without the right to vote. And millions of Native Americans who have been forced off lands their ancestors had held for millennia -- can't seriously call itself a free nation. That's total bullshit.

- We have a fuzzy idea of what a free nation is like. We have yet to achieved anything close to it.

K&R

[center][/center]

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 07:41 AM

48. Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

So we set the Native Americans free.
And now they are bring freedom to all...except themselves.

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 11:23 AM

50. About who had the right to vote:

After declaring independence on July 4, 1776, each former English colony wrote a state constitution. About half the states attempted to reform their voting procedures. The trend in these states was to do away with the freehold requirement in favor of granting all taxpaying, free, adult males the right to vote. Since few men escaped paying taxes of some sort, suffrage (the right to vote) expanded in these states. Vermont's constitution went even further in 1777 when it became the first state to grant universal manhood suffrage (i.e., all adult males could vote). Some states also abolished religious tests for voting. It was in New Jersey that an apparently accidental phrase in the new state constitution permitted women to vote in substantial numbers for the first time in American history.

"Of Government in Petticoats!!!"

The provision on suffrage in the New Jersey state constitution of 1776 granted the right to vote to "all inhabitants" who were of legal age (21), owned property worth 50 English pounds (not necessarily a freehold), and resided in a county for at least one year. No one is sure what was meant by "all inhabitants" since the New Jersey constitutional convention was held in secret. But it appears that no agitation for woman suffrage occurred at the convention.

After the state constitution was ratified by the voters (presumably only men voted), little comment on the possibility of women voting took place in the state for 20 years. Even so, one state election law passed in 1790 included the words "he or she." It is unclear how many, or if any, women actually voted during this time.

In 1797, a bitter contest for a seat in the New Jersey state legislature erupted between John Condict, a Jeffersonian Republican from Newark, and William Crane, a Federalist from Elizabeth. Condict won the election, but only by a narrow margin after Federalists from Elizabeth turned out a large number of women to vote for Crane. This was probably the first election in U.S. history in which a substantial group of women went to the polls.

http://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-8-1-b-who-voted-in-early-america

There is a movement afoot to limit voting to property owners. It's a stupid, conservative idea.

And they are misrepresenting historical facts. The early colonists were British and adopted the British criteria for voting eligibility. But gradually over time once we had won the Revolution, we expanded voting rights to include more and more people. Religious restrictions were dropped pretty early.

Property ownership was not that much of an impediment to early Americans. Granted, slaves and most women and indentured servants did not have the ability to buy property. But property was pretty commonly owned beyond those groups. We were a nation of farmers.

There is inaccurate information, exaggerated claims. Let's watch for this. It is a right-wing effort to disenfranchise voters.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #50)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 02:24 PM

65. Thank you. Facts are in short supply even on Dem forums these days. Short, dismissive

comments are the norm now.

Thanks for taking the trouble to introduce some facts into the mix.

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 02:54 PM

6. shining post

thank you!

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 03:12 PM

7. The ending of John le Carre's "Our Kind of Traitor" ..

 

Last edited Mon Apr 21, 2014, 11:53 PM - Edit history (1)

which I just finished reading, essentially leaves the reader with the full weight of your point in this OP.

It was a really a downer, but reality non the less. This book was published in 2010, but the setting was 2008 banking and financial crises in hand and the Oligarchs holding high office in banking and government in London/Switzerland (EU) and Russia, reap the benefits of mass corruption involving money laundering to the tune of Multi-Billions possibly trillions (no one can say with certainty)..

{edited out the ending summary}

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Response to 2banon (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 09:26 PM

19. Than you for the information.

It will certainly be added to my reading list (I was completely unaware of it until I read your post.)


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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #19)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 11:54 PM

32. I just deleted the ending summary short version from my post

 

I hope you forget what I revealed..

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Response to 2banon (Reply #32)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 12:15 AM

34. All I remember is sweat dreams, and flying machines, and pieces on the ground.

Not that I ever read your summary of course.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #34)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 01:09 AM

35. Thanks.

Now I have to get out my James Taylor CDs.

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 03:33 PM

8. Kick,kick,kicked&Recommended!

 

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 03:37 PM

9. If we could rob banks

 

and only be given a 10% fine on the haul there would be lines at every bank.

Outrageous is far to mild a word for how the rule of law is applied and created in this country.

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Response to obxhead (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 11:35 AM

55. +1

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Response to obxhead (Reply #9)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 06:17 AM

66. Men with guns can rob...

...maybe 3 to 4 banks a day until they're caught. Men with briefcases can rob the entire nation and stand less of a chance of being caught and no chance of being punished.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #66)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 08:24 AM

67. However, once those armed robbers are caught, they face serious time.

 

If the only penalty for bank robbery were having to give back 10% of what you stole, with no other repercussions, there would lines at every bank to take part in a robbery.

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Response to obxhead (Reply #67)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 08:51 AM

68. Agreed

Not arguing your point. IMHO, armed robbery is still a greater crime since violence is present and people are often hurt and sometimes killed. However, if you compare non-violent property crime like theft or shoplifting to the kind of "fraud" that happens in banking bailouts, there's no question who needs greater punishment.

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 03:42 PM

10. I don't much care for rhetoric that intimates the neccesity of revolution.

 

Tone it down or you'll never reach the vast majority of people.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 04:31 PM

11. LOl! Yes, Must be the Gate Keepers of the Status Quo, come hell or high water!

 

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Response to 2banon (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 05:26 PM

13. I am fine with working within the system to change things.

 

Once people start hinting at overthrowing the government, the rhetoric is over the top and I will oppose anybody suggesting that to my dying breath.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #13)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 07:09 PM

16. Your dying breath will be spent

 

Defending those that oppress and control us.

Would you have made the same post under a Romney Presedency?

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Response to obxhead (Reply #16)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 07:10 PM

17. Yes, I would have.

 

There is zero room for violent overthrow of this government regardless of which party holds power.

I cannot support treason.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 08:00 PM

18. Again, who's talking about "violent overthrow" anyway? This isn't the Teajahdist discussion board.

 

I've noticed a certain tendency to jump to extreme conclusions that is not in evidence or even in question.

Now there is a certain group of people over in Nevada that is actually 'acting out' their desire/intention/goal/agenda to overthrow the government in Nevada. And they've got guns, which suggest to me violent intentions... nothing has happened, or at least not reported, yet. (That I'm aware of).

Might I suggest in directing your position to them? They seem to be in need of a certain level of enlightenment.

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Response to 2banon (Reply #18)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 10:08 PM

22. Thank you for attempting to point out that posters fiction regarding me that was just that, fiction.

I had a busy day today with medical appointments and was not available to respond to such nonsense promptly.

I find it refreshing that there are those here that would point out such nonsense on my behalf during a time when I was unable to reply.
I consider you now a member of my "good neighbor list" here in our online community.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 12:09 AM

33. ....

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #17)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 01:14 AM

37. Realy?

Unless it comes from the Supreme Court or Fox Noise or that asshole in NV, right? At what point do you not support treason? I've seen no one here advocate for treason. I've seen plenty on the RW-TEA-GOP advocate. Maybe I missed it, but did you speak out against them?

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Response to xfundy (Reply #37)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 06:34 AM

39. WTF are you talking about?

 

The OP was hinting that revolution is the answer because "We no longer have the rule of law in this country".

It's the same sort of dancing around that the asshole in NV did for years until he got more blatant at the end.

It's the same dancing around that Scalia just did.

It's the same dancing around Hannity did to rile up the terrorist militias.

Same bullshit and it's WRONG no matter who does it.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #39)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 11:43 AM

57. The OP points out injustice, and does not recommend a course of action. Ergo, you're wrong.

 

It'd be best if you learned to parse a posting before you begin attacking the poster. Credibility and all that.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #57)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 12:33 PM

58. Read it again. Revolution is in there. eom

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #58)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 12:47 PM

59. Let's just go to the source. Dragonfli, pardon me, but were you suggesting a revolution in the US?

 

A poster has said you're agitating for revolution in the US. Would you kindly address the point? It's a very serious accusation by a new poster, so I wanted to go straight to the source and find out if that poster is correct. If not, you may consider alerting on the post, because again, it's quite a serious accusation.

Good OP, by the way. Thanks.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #59)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 12:58 PM

60. The same rhetoric of revolution is used by the right wing CONSTANTLY

 

It serves no purpose. It is dangerous and it is wrong.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #60)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 01:01 PM

61. Point out the part pushing revolution, and you may have a point.

 

Go ahead, I'll wait.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #59)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 01:32 PM

62. I was not advocating armed revolution else I would have stated plainly I believed such

a response was a solution to the resurgence of this centuries old problem.

I did indeed point out that revolutions were fought in the past in large part because the laws were used as a weapon against the poor and abused subjects under Monarchies that were above the law themselves. I did so to point out such a problem is very serious one and disastrous to the point that revolutions were fought in desperate attempts to introduce a fairer system to populaces that were bled dry under the lawlessness of the elites in the past.

I never did attempt with the OP to offer a solution to this problem under a broken Republic rather than a Monarchistic one, I did not offer solutions because I do not believe I have the solution. I do know however no solution will be found if we pretend the problem does not exist or we meekly accept the loss of the rule of law in quiet servitude. I sought to speak the unspeakable truth that so few have the courage to acknowledge in the hope that a discussion would follow as I feel a solution will never be found if the subject is verboten.

Also, I already addressed that posters imaginings as I felt he/she was either ignorant or feigning ignorance regarding the plain words that I actually did write.

Not that I owe you such a post as such was not the subject of this one, but if I wrote such a post I would have revealed my belief that armed revolution would not work against a well entrenched government that can track our every move and is not squeamish about murdering people via drone strike with no concern whatsoever that doing so would kill hundreds of women and children that happened to live in the same neighborhood as the target of such a strike.


Having already addressed it, this post is redundant and a waste of time, but you did ask nicely so I answered yet again.
That the poster chose to place fingers in ear and shout "lah lah lah.. can't hear you" while continuing writing nonsense is hardly my fault.

Finally, I did not alert because I do not really fear the unfounded accusations of the ignorant and prefer to allow even the foolish to hold idiotic views and express them in public, as it turns out my lack of fear was appropriate as pretty much everyone else that read my OP understood what I wrote with no difficulty.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #62)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 02:09 PM

63. Thanks. I knew you had already answered, and that you weren't advocating revolution

 

I appreciate your patience with the rhetorical device I used to draw attention to what I consider slanderous and chilling statements.

I did alert on the post, and the alert failed 4 to 3. One of the 4 let me know that both posters were just expressing their opinions. I don't agree with that. There's a difference between stating an opinion and accusing someone of something for which no evidence exists. I should welcome myself to the new DU, I guess. Have a good afternoon.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #63)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 02:20 PM

64. The new DU differs in many ways from the one I joined.

One of the 4 let me know that both posters were just expressing their opinions.


One of the differences appears to be that a poster expressing my opinion for me while offering his own in reply to his/herself
is considered both DUers offering their opinions

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #13)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 10:41 PM

26. Did you have an argument on the content?

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Response to 2banon (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 10:46 PM

29. Exactly. This poster is the saddest

 

example of what the party has become, and makes it wilted and withered.

(I kind of think it is on purpose though, so don't lose hope!)

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 10:00 PM

20. I really do not care for you imposing motives or conclusions on my behalf,

I did not call for revolution!

I simply made the observation that the rule of law is now nonexistent, you see, It is simply a fact that if there are those above the law then the the rule of law no longer exists.

Do you prefer we embrace the truth or do you really and truly believe that if we ignore the truth the fact will simply disappear?

Had I chosen to post an opinion as to whether or not revolution was a solution to this problem I would have offered my opinion on the matter sans your fantasy of what my opinion might be.

Not that I owe you such a post as such was not the subject of this one, but if I wrote such a post I would have revealed my belief that armed revolution would not work against a well entrenched government that can track our every move and is not squeamish about murdering people via drone strike with no concern whatsoever that doing so would kill hundreds of women and children that happened to live in the same neighborhood as the target of such a strike.

All you have managed to do with your fiction is prove my point that many, like you, appear perfectly happy to lick the hand that beats one.

If you wish to live in a fantasy where the rule of law is intact and there are no separate standards regarding investigations and prosecutions depending on one's wealth or political power, please feel free to do so - IN YOUR OWN OP.

Be advised however that there are those that prefer reality to fantasy no matter how bleak that reality might be, and many such people will not be afraid to voice that truth in public discussion.

Thank you for your concern and please refrain in future from rewriting posts for me with your colored and fictitious opinions that you would like to attribute to me in an attempt to replace what I have actually written.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 10:03 PM

21. I've read your explanation before.

 

Every time some wingnut site has a veiled threat of revolution, they say the same.

" there were those that rebelled against such an immune royalty which were allowed to abuse the people, steal everything from them (there homes, their health, even their lives) and face no consequences. Revolutions were fought and promises were made by the victors,"

Yeah, I've seen it thousands of times.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #21)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 10:13 PM

23. How could you have read a previous explanation that I had not written?

Again, please stop attributing words and motives to me that exist only in your fevered imagination. I am beginning to lose patience with your rewrites and baseless assumptions.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #23)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 10:15 PM

24. Because its nearly word for word what I read from wingnuts defending their veiled calls...

 

for revolution.

I've read it too many times before.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #24)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 10:29 PM

25. Do you understand the English language and the words I actually write?

Just because you see ghosts of non-existent text, in other words frightened and fevered fantasies of "calls for revolution" does not mean such fantasies are real. Such nonsense has more to do with your lack of comprehension of what is actually written than anything else.

Continuing to respond to feigned ignorance or true ignorance is generally a waste of time hence my indulging your ignorance with responses is now at an end.

Thus, your two options now are talking to yourself or writing OPs of your own to indulge your fiction.

Good day.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #20)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 10:57 AM

49. Dragonfli, thank you for a very honest (bleak though it may be)

OP.
The other poster obviously does not understand a word of it. I have my opinion on that but I will keep it to myself.

It is reminiscent of Big Brother or Germany under Hitler. That person wants to put words in your mouth and publicly entertain
the idea that you are a terrorist when you made no incitements, etc. "Are you questioning the Fuhrer?"
I usually will not spoil a great OP (or even a bad one) by arguing against someones wild speculations. I felt inclined this time..
In todays controlled world it seems that any form of rebellion is futile and someone imagining that you were encouraging a fight against a country who spends more than the rest of the world COMBINED on "defense" is absurd.
My only hope seems to be Bernie Sanders and that would be an epic "David-vs-Goliath" scenario.
We know that if we want (and we do) change, first we must UNITE. That is about 350 million of us...
Again, thanks.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 07:04 AM

41. We need a revolution, and quick

 

I don't see anything in the OP about blood. Interesting that you read that into it.

The cool thing is that the Founders gave us the ability to do it at the ballot box. They specifically saw that as a safety valve to make revolutions bloodless.

But here's the catch: politicians who say they're going to do good stuff, get elected on that basis, then move hard right after being elected. Nothing more contemptable, they're subverting the will of the majority. Torches and pitchforks might be the only solution to this garbage.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #41)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 07:07 AM

42. Revolutions are bloody affairs. eom

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #42)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 07:13 AM

43. Not necessarily.

 

E.g., 1933.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #43)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 07:17 AM

44. 1933?

 

Revolutions are bloody. Always have been always will be.

Beyond that there is working within the political system.

And as a final point, I would note that there has not been a single president in history who did not become more conservative upon taking office. Perhaps the most notable "turn to the right" was Thomas Jefferson. Another good example is how much the left DESPISED FDR.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #41)


Response to MohRokTah (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 11:27 AM

52. I'm with you. We don't need to follow the historical pattern. Revolutions are very, very

risky and don't usually end as those who foment them think they will. Revolutions tend to go off the rails. That was certainly true of the French Revolution. We were just lucky with our American Revolution. It is the exception, not the rule that revolutions turn ugly and do not really improve society. The most cruel tend to come out on top in revolutions.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #52)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 11:29 AM

54. Yes, the American Revolution was the exception, not the rule.

 

Much better to work within the political system and reform the system through established processes.

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 04:48 PM

12. K&R

We do not deserve this fate.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #12)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 10:44 PM

28. We do not.

 

I only love the people in the party, not the party itself, anymore.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #12)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 10:59 PM

30. That is my opinion as well, at the very least we deserve a fair share of the fruits of our labor

and an expectation that the rich and poor alike might receive equal justice under the law.

I realize my OP is a bummer and I do not enjoy the truth of it any more than any one else that might read it, but I have never been one for blinders nor hiding such truths in servile quietude.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #30)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 04:11 AM

38. A fair share

is not how they operate.

We deserve a government that works for us and protects our interests. A government that fights for us and curbs the greed and corruption of the rapacious business sector.

It is obvious now that the interests of the Corporatocracy are not our interests. The Booshcheney nightmare made that crystal clear. And the PTB continue to build on that Great Leap Backward. There can be no more delusion.

We are being exploited in a way that is humiliating, unjust, and ultimately harmful to the future of this country. Harmful to everyone in the end. But they can't see that. Greed and power blinds and turns average people into monsters without conscience.

Only by facing the truth of it can we do anything to turn this around. We should not go along with being victimized and pitted against each other. We need to invest in a different future, in whatever way we can, small or large. If many of us invest in the same vision, we have power.

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 05:37 PM

15. Such is republic and oligarchy

Republics seem to start off as narrow oligarchies in which the population struggles to expand those included in the stakeholders before ultimately being defeated and causing a snap back to narrow oligarchy where the republic stays for a time, often not very long, until its collapse. We, too, started off as a narrow oligarchy that experienced this same struggle and now its snapping back to a narrow definition. Republics do not open up again after this point, none have and it is highly unlikely we will be the exception.

The result is probably people give up on the notion of a republic altogether and seek material security, the rhetoric of liberty having dashed itself on the rocks.

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 10:43 PM

27. We do not

 

And that sad part is that I really don't love my party anymore, just some of the people in it.

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Apr 21, 2014, 11:11 PM

31. There are different laws depending on who you are.

 

Money talks. Just ask the SCOTUS.

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 01:11 AM

36. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

It's corruption from sea to shining sea.

Money and privilege can make you "not guilty".

Sorry to say. But it's just a fact. It has never before been so IN YOUR FACE.

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 06:51 AM

40. All the justice money can buy.

Excellent OP, thanks.

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 07:18 AM

46. K&R. Spot on.

 

There are two Americas now, two different sets of laws.

The only people on Wall Street who've gotten serious prison time in the past few years are those who messed with the rich. Screwing the rest of us is considered "sport".

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 07:22 AM

47. Excellent post

Rec

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 11:27 AM

51. You are SOOOOO Wrong!

We are still a country of laws. Instead of being without law, we in fact have two whole sets of them--one set for the victims of Affluenza, and the other set for the rest of us.

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 11:27 AM

53. Recommend.

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Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 11:36 AM

56. Complete agreement, Dragonfli.

REC

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