Snowden’s Camp: Staged Putin Q&A Was a Screw-Up

[ProSense]

Last edited Mon Apr 21, 2014, 03:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Snowden’s Camp: Staged Putin Q&A Was a Screw-Up

Noah Shachtman 

Even the NSA leaker’s closest advisers now say his appearance on a Kremlin call-in show, which touched off yet another international firestorm, was a mistake....Edward Snowden instantly regretted asking Russian President Vladimir Putin a softball question on live television about the Kremlin’s mass surveillance effort, two sources close to the leaker tell The Daily Beast.

<...>

“He basically viewed the question as his first foray into criticizing Russia. He was genuinely surprised that in reasonable corridors it was seen as the opposite,” added Ben Wizner, the American Civil Liberties Union attorney who serves as one of Snowden’s closest advisers.

According to Wizner and others, Snowden hadn’t realized how much last week’s Q&A—with Putin blithely assuring Snowden that Moscow had no such eavesdropping programs—would appear to be a Kremlin propaganda victory to Western eyes. And so the leaker quickly decided to write an op-ed for the Guardian to explain his actions and to all but label Putin a liar for his televised response.

- more -

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/20/snowden-s-camp-staged-putin-q-a-was-a-screw-up.html

How dumb are the people around this guy? I mean, this was epic FAIL, and still does nothing to wash away the fact that Putin staged the entire event.

More:

But it wasn’t easy in Russia, where the press is controlled so tightly by the regime. Last month, the Kremlin silenced many of the last remaining critical news outlets in the country. “In Russia, you just can’t—obviously, there’s not as much dissent as in the U.S.,” a source close to Snowden said. The Putin television program seemed to be “a high-profile opportunity” to correct the record.

So after coming out in droves to claim this was a really courageous act, they're now saying in hindsight that it was stupid because Putin staged the event?

Here's my theory: Snowden and his Russian allies (lawyer) are playing his U.S. allies for fools or they're gullible. Snowden and his allies didn't need this bullshit event to call out Putin or Russian spying. The fact that they're running around in circles after this embarrassing episode making CYA excuses is a clue that this isn't about calling out Putin. This is Snowden PR hands down. His allies have no control over what Russia allows him to do. He can't be trapped in a country that silences dissent and claim that he's attempting to hold Putin accountable, but must also be careful not to jeopardize his asylum.

Snowden's question and op-ed were attempts to whitewash Russian spying by equating it to the NSA.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024843557

[Cali_Democrat]

1. But the staunch Snowden defenders right here on DU considered it a brilliant chess move...

catching Putin on record like Clapper. Snowden held Putin's feet to the fire!!

[ProSense]

2. He "instantly regretted" it

Yet, the BS hype from his allies and his absurd op-ed tried to portray it as some brilliant move.

Leave Snowden alone...you have no idea how brilliant this is and how it puts him on the "right side of history."

Charles Pierce:

"Snowden ought to be embarrassed for helping to catapult it into the dialogue."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024833461

[arely staircase]

14. he instantly regreted it then wrote the I am like Ron Wyden op/ed?

what a fucking maroooooooon!

[ProSense]

20. LOL! n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

53. Link or slink.

Where was it posted on DU that this was a "brilliant chess move"?

[alcibiades_mystery]

3. There were only two readings of this ill-conceived stupidity

1) Snowden is a naive sucker, utterly manipulated by Putin
2) Snowden is an out-and-out Putinite.

It appears Mr. Snowden is going with "naive sucker" on this.

As I said elsewhere, even if everything is exactly as Snowden now claims, it's still terrible optics and piss-poor decision-making.

[ProSense]

4. Agree. Still

"As I said elsewhere, even if everything is exactly as Snowden now claims, it's still terrible optics and piss-poor decision-making. "

...if it happened "exactly as Snowden now claims," it doesn't explain why his allies attempted to portray it as "brilliant" and at the same time tried to argue that he can't freely criticize Putin because he is a "guest" in Russia.

Like I said, he can't be trapped in a country that silences dissent and claim that he's attempting to hold Putin accountable, but must also be careful not to jeopardize his asylum.

[arely staircase]

15. I heard he has boxes in his garage and its not about him and you must work for the NSA

what am I leaving out?

[randome]

6. I think his naivety drove everything.

He was an isolated loner who dreamed of being a superhero. Now he's more isolated than ever.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[ProSense]

7. Evident from the start. n/t

[msanthrope]

8. No--his hubris. Not his naivety. Let's give him the moral agency he deserves. nt

[ProSense]

9. It's likely both.

"No--his hubris. Not his naivety. Let's give him the moral agency he deserves. "

His "hubris" is likely a manifestation of his "naivety." Still, both maybe the product of delusions of grandeur.

[msanthrope]

12. Perhaps this is my own bias. I think that naivety is the product of an

immature mind that does not understand how the world works.

Hubris is the product of the mature mind who thinks they have risen above how the world works.

I find Snowden to be of the latter type.

[ProSense]

18. That is

"Hubris is the product of the mature mind who thinks they have risen above how the world works. "

...the effect of delusions of grandeur.

[ProSense]

5. Kick! n/t

[rumdude]

10. at least he admits it

[uponit7771]

55. admits what? that he's stupid or a stooge?

[Blue_Tires]

11. The fact that Snowden was so "shocked" at the negative backlash

tells us everything we need to know about him

[arely staircase]

13. bwahahahahaha!

[Cha]

16. Yeah, it was stupid and so was snowden's Op-Ed.

thanks for this ProSense

[ProSense]

22. You're welcome. n/t

[stevenleser]

17. We tried to tell his blind supporters. He is a fool and anything he claims cannot be believed.

This is what happens when you are a naive, sophomoric fool with delusions of grandeur.

Who knows what the deal is with the documents he took? Were they non-implemented proposals? Earlier drafts? Emergency measures only to be implemented in exigent circumstances?

In large organizations with document management repositories, all of the above can be found and if you don't know better, you can easily grab a project proposal that has never been implemented. In fact, more non-implemented proposals are in those repositories than actual implemented projects.

This guy is a fool and his word about what is happening at the NSA is worth nothing.

[ProSense]

30. Well, now that the spin failed

"We tried to tell his blind supporters. He is a fool and anything he claims cannot be believed."

...and they've admitted it was a "screw-up," it's back to: Snowden is a hero. LOL!

[HipChick]

19. What an idiot..

[ProSense]

23. This admission is complicating the spin that it was a "brilliant" move

[Hissyspit]

57. I thought it was absolute proof he was a Russian spy for sure?

Good thing this puts all the "nothing new here" NSA revelations back in the bottle.

[ProSense]

58. Putin is the one who called him a "spy"

"Good thing this puts all the "nothing new here" NSA revelations back in the bottle. "

That's completely irrelevant to the fact that he just played Putin's tool, and "instantly regretted" it.

Compounding it by trying to pass it off as "brave" and "brilliant" makes it even more embarrassing.

At the same time, his allies were pushing the argument that he can't freely criticize Putin because he is a "guest" in Russia.

Like I said, he can't be trapped in a country that silences dissent and claim that he's attempting to hold Putin accountable, but must also be careful not to jeopardize his asylum.

[Hissyspit]

59. Plenty of people here immediately said this was proof he was a spy.

Even though it was no such thing.

[Number23]

21. His attorneys/handlers have my deepest sympathy.

[ProSense]

29. Clearly, the attempts to portray this as "brave" failed massively.

Only a fool would believe that staged event wasn't an embarrassing episode.

[Vattel]

24. Attacking him for asking that question strikes me as really desperate.

[ProSense]

25. "Desperate" is trying to spin a "screw-up" as "brilliant." n/t

[Vattel]

35. Both are desperate

[ProSense]

36. Calling out someone for an idiotic act is not "desperate."

The fact that they tried to push it off as "brave" makes it even more embarrassing.

[Vattel]

37. meh, not nearly as idiotic as many things Obama has done.

[ProSense]

38. Well, this thread is about the "idiotic" thing Snowden did.

"meh, not nearly as idiotic as many things Obama has done."

Suddenly, "desperate" isn't the word, huh?

[Vattel]

40. That's the thing, what he did wasn't really idiotic.

I mean, did it cause any harm? He was just trying to get the conversation going. Maybe he failed, but it's hardly what I would call idiotic.

[ProSense]

41. Participating in a staged event to help Putin push his propaganda is idiotic

"That's the thing, what he did wasn't really idiotic."

Compounding it by trying to pass it off as "brave" and "brilliant" makes it even more embarrassing.


At the same time, they were pushing the argument that he can't freely criticize Putin because he is a "guest" in Russia.

Like I said, he can't be trapped in a country that silences dissent and claim that he's attempting to hold Putin accountable, but must also be careful not to jeopardize his asylum.

It was a massive "screw-up."

[Vattel]

43. Calling it a "massive screw-up" strikes me as desperate.

He went on record saying Putin lied. So I don't see any harm in what happened.

[ProSense]

44. Well,

"Calling it a "massive screw-up" strikes me as desperate. He went on record saying Putin lied. So I don't see any harm in what happened."

...it's clear that the his lawyer is "desperate" and in damage control mode by admitting that it was a "screw-up."

You may not want to acknowledge the "harm," which is to whatever credibility anyone believes Snowden had, but this is damage control.

[Vattel]

61. The lawyer is trying to correct misapprehensions of what happened that you are pushing.

[MADem]

54. Yes, it was idiotic. This is HIS LAWYER talking, now:

Wizner said he understood the revulsion: The interchange looked like cheap agitprop. “I know this is hard to believe. I know if I was just watching from afar, I’d think, ‘Wow, they forced him (Snowden) to do this,’” the ACLU attorney added. “But it’s not true. He just fucking did it.”

It was idiotic, it was repulsive...and he "just fucking did it."

[Vattel]

60. Please endeavor to comprehend what you read.

The lawyer understood the revulsion because it "looked like cheap agitprop" and one might think that "they forced him (Snowden) to do it." But the lawyer is saying that to think that it was just cheap agitprop or that he was forced to do it would be a misapprehension.

[MADem]

62. Yes, he knew what it looked like, and he knew that "He just fucking did it."

I think you're the one who needs to "endeavor to comprehend what you read." Stop trying to spin it beyond what it is. The lawyer is saying what he said. No less, no more.

You seem to be in some sort of state of denial, it would appear and you're demanding that I see what the man said with your spin atop it.

[Vattel]

63. I have no idea why you think the remark, "He just fucking did it" is so damning.

I really think your bias against Snowden is affecting your interpretation.

[MADem]

64. How amusing, as I regard your bias towards him as doing that, precisely.

And I'm not extrapolating anything from his advisor's words.

You, though, are.

[Vattel]

65. If you say so.

[ProSense]

32. Look a fan.

[Logical]

33. You should celebrate, 19 recs is a lot for you. nt

[ProSense]

34. Uh,

"You should celebrate, 19 recs is a lot for you. "

...I "celebrate" every "leave Snowden alone" cry.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024843557

[ucrdem]

42. Poster has been called away.

On Mon Apr 21, 2014, 07:42 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Thanks for the dumbest post on the DU today. But I assume that happens a lot for you. nt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4854601

REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Normally I make excuses for insults, if they have something (or anything) to say beyond a pure insult. But this one doesn't.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Apr 21, 2014, 07:46 PM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Had this been followed by something - anything - of substance to the conversation, it would probably earn a pass, at least from me. But it doesn't. It is the sort of comment that usually works better in a real-life, face-to-face conversation, but not so well in print.

Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Why this poster hasn't been banned long ago is beyond me, but like most of his/her posts, this is a bullying violation of CS. Hide.

Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[JI7]

48. obsession

person goes in every prosense thread attacking her personally for posting about NEWS STORIES on a political discussion board.

[Bobbie Jo]

50. It's actually getting creepy. nt

[JI7]

51. it's been that way for a while

i think that was the one who send a pm asking her private questions

[Bobbie Jo]

52. Yep

That's stalker territory, alright.

[sheshe2]

26. Kick!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

27. Backpedaling a bit

[treestar]

28. Pootie's answer was laughable

Russia is not the nation to be known for the rule of law.

[ucrdem]

39. . . . and another Benghazi rides the bus

to oblivion . . .

[BenzoDia]

45. Putin thanks Snowden for his participation.

[joshcryer]

46. I don't see why everyone is freaking out about this admission.

This is a good thing, it helps show Snowden is introspective and capable of making mistakes, and correcting them. It means that Snowden may in fact leave Russia and go to, say, Venezuela.

[ProSense]

47. You mean the "admission" that is being met with denial?

"This is a good thing, it helps show Snowden is introspective and capable of making mistakes, and correcting them. It means that Snowden may in fact leave Russia and go to, say, Venezuela."

Yeah, realizing that one screwed up should lead to some introspection, even if it comes after attempting to spin it as something it wasn't.

[joshcryer]

56. His supporters made the dumbshit statements.

He shouldn't be criticized for admitting his mistake. He should come out and say his Guardian editorial was an attempt to justify his mistake. Further ostracizing those dumbshit supporters who said it was right for him to go on there and throw Putin a lowball that Putin used to rise to the top.

Remember, importantly, Russian media didn't show the critical nature of the "question." Snowden should've seen that coming, but he admits he was wrong on that count. He should get credit for that.

It's the supporters, not Snowden, who should be apologizing on his behalf, for trying to downplay a mistake he admits.

[AgingAmerican]

49. Drama

nt

[ucrdem]

66. Snowden is a Manchurian candidate without the brainwashing.

Once again chez snowball showed their hand by letting Eddie pull this stunt which I'm sure he only "instantly regretted" when he saw the bad press. What did they accomplish besides giving proof positive that Libertarian teahadists are treasonous f*cks? It was an opportunity to trash the Obama admin on foreign TV and they took it. Mission accomplished, too. Too bad their latest child star also crashed and burned.

[Adrahil]

67. Edward Snowden was manipulated into a bad decision? I'm shocked!

SHOCKED I TELL YOU!