Atheist lawsuit claims ‘under God’ in NJ school’s daily pledge recital harms children

[DonViejo]

By Scott Kaufman
Monday, April 21, 2014 14:20 EDT

On Saturday, the American Humanist Association filed a lawsuit in New Jersey on behalf of an atheist family seeking to erase the phrase “one Nation under God” from the Pledge of Allegiance.

According to the lawsuit, “John Doe and Jane Doe are atheists…who have personally experienced the public’s prejudice against atheists.” They have been told they are “arrogant for not believing in God,” and “Doechild is…aware of unfavorable public attitudes toward atheism, and has in fact been personally confronted and shouted at in response to his openly identifying as atheist.”

Because of this, John and Jane Doe do not believe Doechild — who attends a public school in the Matawan-Aberdeen Regional School District — should be forced to recite the Pledge of Allegiance on a daily basis, as that forces Doechild into a position in which classmates will come to recognize that he is a non-believer.

David Niose, an attorney for the American Humanist Association’s Appignani Humanist Legal Center, said in a statement on Monday that “[p]ublic schools should not engage in an exercise that tells students that patriotism is tied to a belief in God. Such a daily exercise portrays atheist and humanist children as second-class citizens, and certainly contributes to anti-atheist prejudices.”

more
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/21/atheist-lawsuit-claims-under-god-in-nj-schools-daily-pledge-recital-harms-children/

[JNelson6563]

1. It's ok to hate atheists.

They're going to hell anyway. And the little heathen getting picked on? Well he needs a good dose of Christian love so don't worry about it.

Julie

[DirkGently]

2. The Pledge should be retired.

I don't know if lawsuits by Atheists against school districts are always the way to go -- here it sounds like no one is forced to say the Pledge -- but the whole, "Stand and salute and pledge your allegiance to the symbol of the Fatherland" thing is ridiculous to start with.

"Under God" is the final, intellect-insulting twist added to fight the Red Menace or what have you, but the entire exercise is a weird state / religious exercise anyway.

I was called for jury duty recently, and they actually had everyone stand and do the Pledge. Adults. From presumably every walk of life, every religious and philosophical background. But no, stand up in public, please, and do a rigid fascist salute thing, and talk about pledging fealty to a flag, and oh yes, affirm your faith in (Christian) monotheism while you're at it.

Ridiculous and childish and emblematic of a queer need to demand conformity, and to begin that demand in childhood, for everyone. For what?

I don't know that the parents here don't have a good point that simply letting child sit it out -- and thus be marked as a nonconformist and therefore also possibly suspect in everything -- is enough. If it's that important, say the Pledge at home, with the rest of your prayers.

[Humanist_Activist]

3. Gotta remember the Pledge was made and popularized at a time when Jingoism and Nationalism...

were acceptable. Those two things ended up being frowned upon after WWII, for obvious reasons, in much of the rest of the world, but far less so in our country. Perhaps we should mature beyond nationalistic trappings and retire the pledge, it has no place in the real world.

[el_bryanto]

4. I don't know

I do think the Under God should be taken out, because we practice a variety of religious faiths and no faith at all. But I do think that in some ways we are a more selfish society than in the past - we don't see ourselves as a connected nation. You can posit two extremes - one fascism where everybody works for the state, and one a sort of libertarian anarchism, where everybody works for themselves.

Surely the ideal would be somewhere in the middle, and I think we are a lot closer to libertarian anarchism than we are to fascism, culturally (politically is another matter).

Bryant

[DirkGently]

6. I'd prefer a good civics lesson.

The flag is fine. The Constitution is better. If the goal is to instill appreciation for the democratic Republic "for which it stands," I think we get a lot further learning about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and what was going on in the rest of the world that inspired that thinking, than in making kids (or jurors) drone a rote promise of "allegiance."

I said, it, a million times. Somewhere in high school I stopped, though I always stood so as not to make a fuss about it. I remember it was inscribed in the top of my (now old-timey) "pencil box" I took to the first day of school. But I can't help feeling it was a weird sham of some kind -- an attempt to subvert thinking and give all the ugly interests that come waving the flag and yapping about patriotism some kind of shortcut into the brain.

[KamaAina]

16. Or returned to its original form. Without "under God".

It was added during the McCarthy-era witch hunt against "godless Communism".

[HockeyMom]

5. Oh, it's not just Atheists either

NY Public Middle school Wiccan boy went to the John every day when the pledge was said. "I am Wiccan and we don't believe in worshipping a piece of cloth". The other kids never said anything to him. They did not shun him either.

Florida Public Elemetary School JW Teacher Aide walked to the back of the room and took out supplies. She said nothing about it but there were enough JW staff there and it was very common. Against their religion to say the pledge.

Personally, I would stand just out of repsect, but never said it myself, and certainly did not put my hand on my heart. I just thought about something else. Much the same as I did in Catholic HS when it was time to pray.

[piratefish08]

7. loyalty pledges are gross. force god into it and you take it to a whole new level.

[Otelo]

8. It should be unconstitutional

Religious beliefs must be separate.

[redqueen]

9. Hell, the pledge is harmful IMO.

This captures it well

[MineralMan]

10. Nobody is forced to say the Pledge,

nor is anyone forced to include "under God" when saying it. I still say it the way I learned it in grammar school, before "under God" was added in the 1950s. Nobody seems to care how I say it.

These lawsuits have been attempted before. They always fail, because there is no compulsion to say the Pledge of Allegiance. That's settled in previous rulings.

As an Atheist for all of my adult life, I think these suits are a waste of time. There are better ways to proceed.

[DirkGently]

11. Well, except when they are, of course.

The first incident happened on Sept. 11, the 12-year anniversary of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. The next day, Daigle-McDonald noticed that the boy hadn’t changed his habits. That’s when she decided to turn the incident into a lesson for all her young students.

She yanked the boy’s hand over his heart and then told the entire class, “In my classroom, everyone will do the pledge; no religion says that you can't do the pledge."

She continued, "If you don't want to say the pledge, you still have to put your hand on your heart and if you don't want to do that, you should move out of the country.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/teacher-forces-jehovah-witness-recite-pledge-article-1.1508783

The problem with the theoretical "opting out" is that it singles out anyone NOT interested in a quasi-religious, quasi-fascist saluting ceremony as an oddball. Wouldn't fly for two seconds if we had an "optional" salute and mini-prayer to Allah or something else.

It's a relic of an imaginary homogenous American culture that never existed, and a weird nod to fascism (wasn't the initial salute the arms-out, German looking thing?).

It's not a huge deal. But its retirement is long overdue.

[Adrahil]

14. The suits may fail, but not forced?

Maybe not legally, but there is a LOT of peer and teacher pressure on kids to recite the Pledge. My daughter remains silent during the "Under God" portion, and it actually caused a lunchroom incident.

[Mariana]

12. If children are going to be "encouraged" to say the pledge

they should at least salute the flag in the traditional way:

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[DirkGently]

13. That's the one. Heil!

Nothing fascist to see here, no siree.

[Mariana]

18. That particular type of salute

went out of fashion in the US in the 1940's, for some reason.

I'm with you. The whole thing should be done away with. It's just wrong to coerce little children to make pledges they don't even understand - and it's ridiculous to pretend the kids aren't coerced. Of course they are. How many teachers inform their classes beforehand that anyone who doesn't want to participate doesn't have to? The older students may know, but if the younger ones haven't been told at home, how on earth can they be expected to know that the pledge is voluntary?

Any parents who insist their children should say the pledge can have them perform it at home. But of course it's not their children they're worried about. They want to make sure everyone else's children say it, too.

[DirkGently]

19. That's the core of it. It's a conformity check.

The standing. The saluting. The unified chanting of the same well-worn words you don't even think about as you're saying them.

There's a very dark side to that. You don't dare not do it. We are saying these words, and if you are not, you are whizzing in the punchbowl of national unity or some such. There's no shortage of stories of teachers or principals grabbing arms to "make" some little child stand or salute. We have to assume that even when that doesn't happen, that vibe is always there. Swear your loyalty. To a symbol. Or else.

I understand those who worry about making "too big a deal" or being too militant in calling out "traditions" people see as harmless or nostalgic or whatever. But it's not nothing, and there's a reason the fascist-leaning among us get so offended when anyone suggests these things aren't required, or when they "catch" some public figure not conforming exactly as the tradition requires.

[loyalsister]

15. I can see their point

and would be very happy to see the pledge tucked away. But, this has the unfortunate effect of drawing attention and energy away from the larger battles like creationism and anti-science "education." I think those battles outweigh under god in the pledge of allegiance.

[TroglodyteScholar]

17. Replace "God" with "Allah" and it's the exact same thing.

But good luck getting any US court to admit/acknowledge this plain and simple fact.