If Hillary is a corporatist Third Way DLC Dem, why does Elizabeth Warren think she's terrific?

[Cali_Democrat]

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) on Monday said Hillary Clinton is “terrific” when asked if the former secretary of State would make a good president.
<...>

“I think Hillary Clinton is terrific,” she said. “We've got to stay focused on these issues right now.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/204014-warren-i-think-hillary-clinton-is-terrific

[hrmjustin]

1. K&R!

[msanthrope]

2. I bet you aren't going to get an answer from anyone who is trying to hype the sexist ratfucking

meme that these two strong women don't support each other.

[FSogol]

6. +1 n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

10. I'm of the firm belief

That attempts to use Warren to attack Hillary and Obama are Republican tactics designed to divide Dems in 2014 and 2016.

[msanthrope]

19. It's ratfucking 101....attacks from the faux Left on the strongest candidates. Looks like Warren

ain't playing.

[hootinholler]

99. So it's the DLC-3rd way or you are a ratfucker?

Is that what you really mean?

That's the loudest message I get from your posts in this thread.

[msanthrope]

102. Who are you calling DLC or third way? nt

[hootinholler]

103. Hillary Clinton

She was the poster child of the DLC when they were existent. Now the same group of people are presenting themselves as the third way, but I'm not sure how big a part Ms. Clinton has in that.

[msanthrope]

127. Oh lordy...still trying to find people who don't accept the bought and paid for Senate 2000

bullshit from Rove and company.

I'm disappointed. I worked for Hillary when she employed David Brock's partner.....with no apologies. You've seriously missed the mark.

[hootinholler]

140. What bullshit from Rove and Company?

Nothing to do with this.

Hillary has been prominently featured as a leader of the DLC on the DLC website for years. That's why I call her the poster child.

[msanthrope]

142. Dear sweet jeebus...if you are unfamiliar with the recent history of 2000, and, frankly, 1996/98...

then I am sorry.

[hootinholler]

143. It matters not.

The FACT is that Hillary is DLC leadership. She has been for a long time. I haven't proof, but I think she and Bill helped found it.

So who are you calling a ratfucker? It sounds like you are calling Liz Warren that.

[msanthrope]

146. It really does matter. There's a 2014 election to win, and ignorance about the Clintons...

whether it's about Vince Foster or Mena Airport..it matters.

Read up.

[hootinholler]

152. Again and for the last time

That has nothing to do with Hillary being a DLC leader.

She is.

[joshcryer]

163. The Great Right Wing Conspiracy?

A term Clinton herself coined and was derided for saying?

Vincent Foster, Arkansas Project, Whitewater, Lewinsky? FBI files, Madison Guaranty, Rose Law Firm? The first impeachment of a President in over 130 years?

Are you kidding me?

Of course the DLC would prominently feature her, she made them relevant.

[hootinholler]

168. No, I'm not kidding anyone

Since I'm supposed to have connected that bullshit and her being the leadership of the DLC, perhaps you can explain in a lucid manner just exactly what one has to do with the other? I fail to see the connection. She seems quite proud of her involvement with the DLC.

Maybe you can also explain how pointing out the fact Hillary is a proud leader of the DLC is ratfucking? I seem to have missed that part too.

[joshcryer]

181. Because it's mostly irrelevant.

What other choice did she have? You are essentially condemning her for success.

[hootinholler]

183. We must define success differently

Granted, she was a good SoS. I don't condemn her for her success, I disagree with her accomplishments. Granted that they are generally better than any republican's goals would have been. I contend she has the wrong goals, they benefit the 1%. Therefore at this point in the election cycle, of course I'm going to continue to do all I can to drag the party back to the people. I thought that DU was a haven for people who want to do just that.

Right now of the politicians of Presidential mettle there are two who consistently stand with my current core values. There are more that mostly do. And those that will if it costs them nothing.

BTW, saying that her lengthy participation in the DLC is irrelevant is like saying Rand Paul being libertarian is irrelevant.

[joshcryer]

185. dupe

...

[joshcryer]

186. Please give me a theoretical path she could've taken.

Rand Paul, as a male, has many options.

Clinton, as a female in the 80s, had it a lot harder. I don't see her going so far without the right connections.

Hell, Warren got lucky, Obama literally pushed her into the CFPB to bolster her political ambitions (her book settles this issue once and for all, she did not want that position).

[hootinholler]

188. I'm not interested in discussing a fictional version n/t

[joshcryer]

189. So you concede the point?

Or do you argue she had the same options as her male counterparts?

[hootinholler]

190. She is what she is.

I don't see that leopard changing spots.

[joshcryer]

191. Politicians "change their spots" regularly.

So not sure if this is a fair characterization.

Robert Byrd is perhaps the largest shift in ideology in political history, going from a Klansman to getting a 100% rating from the NAACP.

[joshcryer]

164. Remember when David Brock admitted the conspiracy existed?

And he was part of it?

[msanthrope]

165. Yes...he admitted that his book on Anita Hill was bought and paid for BS. He admitted that

there was an entire system of winger welfare for writers (of which, Glenn Greenwald later came to take advantage of.)


Media Matters didn't happen because he woke up one day and decided to do it----it happened because the fuckers on the right decided they didn't like the results of a free and fair election and they wanted the President's head. Hillary Clinton not only survived that, she's the only one left standing.

[joshcryer]

162. She was a woman politician in the Regan era conservative shift.

What did you expect her to do? Allow herself to be marginalized and go full hippie (she was a hippie)?

I mean, it's pretty messed up the shit she has had to deal with and the forces that were against her. And they still exist. To this day.

But she'll succeed.

You should read "Bill and Hillary: The Politics of the Personal."

[Cal33]

180. Your reasoning of the situation seems to be right on! Let's not fall for this Republican trick!

So let's just give our reasons for preferring one candidate over another -- and allow the others
to give theirs, without any rancor. And even try to see things from the others' points of views
and compare them with your own for the one you prefer.

[MADem]

109. I would have to agree with that assessment. nt

[treestar]

138. Yep

I've always thought EW might not approve of it, either.

[CTyankee]

171. Actually, I heard Joe Scarborough do that dance earlier this week...

he said that liberals didn't realize how much of a neo-con Hillary is and just wait til they do, yadda, yadda...

So this is a Republican "talking point" now...

[sabrina 1]

114. Wrong. If Elizabeth Warren changes her views on war and wall st. crimes and joins

Hillary idealogically, they this Warren supporter will be looking elsewhere for someone who represents them.

Why on earth would you think that people would have any problem withdrawing support from someone they have supported due to their position on the issues, once they change that position???? What a strange assumption to make.

Warren is a Dem. I will wait to see if she has joined Hillary in her support for Bush' foreign policies, and in her support for Wall St. If she has, then I have no more interest in her as a representative of the people who have supported her up to now.

Not everyone is a blind follower of a 'leader'. I hope no one thought this was going to change any minds about Hillary.

[msanthrope]

129. Well, sabs, I am glad for the the blueprint!!!! If she ain't a ratfucker, you are just done!!!nt

[Beacool]

121. Hear, hear!!!

They get along fine, but some here will insist that it's all "politics". They don't seem to realize how insulting that is to both women. They are women of similar age and have a lot in common, why wouldn't they get along?

[msanthrope]

130. Oh....they realize. They just think we are stupid. nt

[Capt. Obvious]

139. Embrace your anger

[yallerdawg]

3. Because, as it is today...

Hillary Clinton is our last, best hope to nominate an electable Democrat, and as it is today, Elizabeth Warren acknowledges this.

Elizabeth Warren is a good Democrat.

[Historic NY]

78. +1000

[fbc]

85. Or, "terrific" is the easiest one word response when you don't want to say anything at all.

Terrific:
1) of great size, amount, or intensity.
2) causing terror.

That's perfect word usage by Warren.

[yallerdawg]

95. We have to mention "Benghazi"

It's "happy hour" and the drinking game commences!

Bottoms up!

[MADem]

110. As she acknowledged as well in that private letter signed by all of the Democratic female Senators,

that some fellers like to mock, for reasons that escape me...

[yallerdawg]

111. MAdem?!

I mock not!

I wish Elizabeth Warren would put her hat in the ring. I wish she were the Democratic nominee. I wish she became President.

It is only with resignation that I accept that today she has no reason or expectation to do any of this.

Sen. Warren says Hillary is terrific. She is a good Democrat just like me.

[MADem]

113. I think you've misunderstood my comment!

I wasn't accusing you of mocking, not at all. Please disabuse yourself of that notion!

[yallerdawg]

118. I thought you misunderstood my comment.

But you know, "A kicked dog howls loudest!"

I can be snarky, sarcastic and mocking.

I'm a Democrat.

[MADem]

131. Where do I pay mah dues?

I'll join that club, I'm one of those oft-criticized Democrats too!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

206. True dat - what else is Elizabeth sposed to say? Of course she knows Hillary is in the pocket of Wall Street ratfuckers.

[JackRiddler]

214. Snarf.

It's Hillary Clinton or Republicans Forever. (Just like in 2008.)

If you think this is an argument on her behalf, then for the sake of her and her funders, I sure hope you're not part of her election machine, as your blind repetition of the talking points might suggest.

[el_bryanto]

4. There's a couple of possibilities

Perhaps Ms. Warren is incorrect in her assessment of Hillary Clinton.

Alternatively she could be grading Clinton on what she's trying to accomplish, rather than on what she should be trying to accomplish. As far as Washington Democratic Politicians go it's not like Clinton's policies stand out. She's pretty middle of the road, within the democratic spectrum. That doesn't mean she's not a corporatist, it just means that nearly everybody else she's measured against in Washington is a corporatist. If you set that as the standard, than Clinton looks pretty good. And she has, in my opinion, done more good than bad.

Now the other question is whether we want to continue electing middle of the road, pro-wall street politicians. I don't. Hillary Clinton, whatever her other worthy qualities, is a middle of the road, pro-wall street politician. So, with all due respect, I'll be supporting someone else in the primary.

Bryant

[Niceguy1]

117. I would rather win then

Feel good for voting for the perfect dem, and loose by doing so...

[el_bryanto]

156. Than you should support who you feel is best.

Obviously if Hillary wins the nomination I'll support her.

Bryant

[onehandle]

5. Guilt by association!

What do we really know about this so-called 'Elizabeth Warren' anyway?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

23. Well, until fairly recently, she was a Republican.

And her economic stances were even iffy until she decided to go full-on anti-weath-inequality.

No one's one-dimensional, and as much as I agree with EW's current economic stances, she's not some 'super-liberal'.

[sufrommich]

25. What?? When was Elizabeth Warren a republican?

I'm not buying that.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

30. According to her wikipedia entry, from her first votes until 1996.

She was born in Oklahoma after all. Most people start out with the political party of their parents.

[Arkana]

64. Hillary was a Goldwater Girl. It happens.

People change their minds.

I'm not going to turn someone away just because they've had an epiphany.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

66. Me either.

I generally like EW. I just don't worship her or anything, even if I consider her one of the better Senators in general.

[Beacool]

151. Again with that? She was freaking 17 years old, for goodness sakes!!!

[Arkana]

159. Chill. My point is that people change. Elizabeth Warren voted Republican in 1996,

and Hillary was a Goldwater Girl.

Opinions change. People change. Look at Bob Byrd, for chrissakes.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

31. I guess you could argue that a switch in 96 is not 'recent' though. nt

[merrily]

198. Look, pick a side and then be totally one-sided, willya?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

199. I do have a side - I'm critical of ALL politicians.

Even the ones who temporarily align with my own views

[merrily]

200. Temporarily align with your views or pretend to align with your views

until you catch onto that scam?

Alan Harper: From now on, I am going to be totally honest with women.

Walden Schmidt: Until they catch onto that scam.

Alan Harper: Right. Then it's back to Alan Harper, astronaut

(Scene from Two and a Half Men)



Even if you don't pick a side, attempts at even-handedness will only make people certain that you did pick a side--that side being the one they bitterly resent.

j/k.

Maybe.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

203. Oh I'm not being even-handed at all.

I'm on my side, 100% of the time I just happen to realize that being on my side means helping others, because life only gets better when we work together, and you never know when you're going to be the one who needs the help. So it's best to have the highest possible 'base' for everyone, rather than finding ways to simply let a few lucky individuals hoover up everything in site while everything sucks for most everyone else.

[merrily]

204. I am not always on any individual's side, including my own.

I am not gushing unconditionally over any politician, either.

But, all that is way heavier than I intended to get.

[Beacool]

150. She was a registered Republican until her mid 40s.

She's talked about before.

[onehandle]

33. Whatever. There was a time when Republicans were humans.

Being a Republican after the 90s is the true test of humanity.

And I was making a joke up there.

[Arkana]

62. Don't worry. Scott Brown's campaign and the Boston Herald

will get to the bottom of Elizabeth Warren's ethnicity ANY DAY NOW.

[truebrit71]

7. Within in the strict confines of the question...

...which she DIDN'T answer btw, that's a fairly generic, and calculated response...

[sufrommich]

11. It's calculated to convey that Warren will not throw

her support to anyone in the primaries right now. I think some are reading way too much into her statement. Warren has said she's not running and promised voters she will remain a senator for her full term.She doesn't strike me as the type to mince words.

[Nye Bevan]

8. There are three possibilities.

1. Elizabeth Warren is a liar;
2. Elizabeth Warren is stupid;
3. Hillary really is terrific.

I'm going with 3 myself. Anyone else?

[IDemo]

13. For a 4th possibility,

See #9

[Nye Bevan]

17. That post is pure waffle.

Does Elizabeth Warren think that Hillary Clinton is terrific?

[IDemo]

24. I seriously doubt it

Given everything we have heard from Warren over the past couple of years, versus Hillary's appeasement of the Goldman Sachs crowd, I'm sure she's being a good politician and supporting the obvious nominee in 2016.

[Nye Bevan]

27. OK, so you think she's a liar.

That knocks her down a bit in my estimation.

[Douglas Carpenter]

9. Oh please, Politics is politics - Sen. Warren recognizes that Hillary is the most likely nominee and

and considers rallying behind her to be the most pragmatic approach and supporting her would likely strengthen her own position to advance her own issues. This is not an unusual approach. In fact it is the norm - whatever the political persuasion. But for those who are not legitimately jockeying for influence to suggest Hillary is not a third way "corporatist" or DLC type New Democrat requires ignoring all the facts and her entire political history and background and is dishonest to the point of being downright loony.

[Cali_Democrat]

12. So Warren is lying? Hillary is, in fact, not terrific? nt

[truebrit71]

16. ...'not terrific' as what? A leading female candidate? As a grandma-to-be?

She didn't say she'd be a terrific President though...

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

18. Could be it's a 'white lie'.

Like telling someone who looks terrible that that look just fine, or (to go to the sexist stereotype reply) 'No, that dress doesn't make you look fat'. Sometimes telling the truth does you absolutely no good, and can in fact only hurt you.

[VanillaRhapsody]

53. and sometimes.....the truth is just the truth....

sometimes there is nothing between the lines...

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

57. Well, sure. Especially when it's merely

one person's opinion of another person.

EW might very well consider HRC 'terrific'. That's her prerogative.

[1StrongBlackMan]

77. But you're just supposed to trust ...

all this "between the line reading" because those that engage in it (with respect to President Obama) have been so accurate to date!

[Douglas Carpenter]

20. sorry, but you are being awfully naive about how politics is played in the real world

[Dawgs]

35. Were Hillary and Obama lying when they said nice things about each other in 08?

You should know better. You've been around long enough to know how politics works.

[Nye Bevan]

36. No, of course not. They genuinely respected each other (nt)

[Ed Suspicious]

67. Warren is a good politician. There is no downside to her backing Hillary. Warren rallies the

populist vote around Clinton, Warren goes from being a little bit out in the wilderness, to holding a populist agenda-setting influence over the White House. It's how the sausage is made. Just like we'll ultimately hold our nose to the third way tendencies, and vote Clinton if she becomes the Democratic candidate. She might love Mrs. Clinton, she may just find her acceptable, but Elizabeth Warren has a pragmatic streak, and knows how to work within the political realm.

[VanillaRhapsody]

51. Would that some on Democratic Underground understood politics....

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

14. Reagan's 11th commandment?

Or perhaps the fact that on most social issues, Hillary is actually on the 'right side'.

If Warren truly is planning not to run, she has little incentive to trash any Democratic candidate.

[merrily]

15. seems like a convoluted way to determine if Hilllary is a DLC/Third Way/New Dem type or not.

[TheKentuckian]

104. Ask Warren. I don't live in her head or she in mine.

[merrily]

197. Odd reply. I don't think Warren suggested that we should try to determine what Hillary's politics

are by what Warren says about Hillary. That was the thread parent, to whom I thought my post was addressed. Hillary has her own track record in public life. It's also pretty obvious that a Democratic Senator is not going to say anything but good things about the person we've been told for almost two years now will be the Democratic nominee, if she cares to run.

Given those two things, I am at a loss why you think I should ask Warren why the OP is written as it is. Not sure why you thought my reply to the thread parent about the OP had anything to do with Warren living in your head or vice versa, either.

[TheKentuckian]

210. My bad. That was intended to be a reply to the OP and I'm not sure why I replied to you

[merrily]

212. LOL, no worries. Good to know.

[djean111]

21. It sounded to me like a bit of deflection - Warren just said the usual thing, and then said

“We've got to stay focused on these issues right now.” Not talk about Hillary Clinton.

I am a woman. I don't believe Warren and Clinton are working against each other, nor do I think Warren is devoting much, if any, time to Clinton.
And Warren can say Terrific! all day long - it will not make anyone like Hillary any more than they do right now.
Warren saying Terrific! does not mean she approves of corporatist Third Way policies; it is a throw-away compliment, one that is used to mean pretty much anything. It is not an approval rating of everything Hillary stands for.

For instance, Warren is openly against the TPP. Hillary helped write it and wants it to be inflicted.
Warren saying Terrific!!! does not mean she now supports the TPP.
Politics.

[VanillaRhapsody]

54. It makes me like Elizabeth Warren more.....does that count?

[djean111]

61. Count for what? Your premise is that Warren saying Terrific! means Hillary must not be a

Third Way Corporatist. That is, IMO, completely illogical and bogus.

[VanillaRhapsody]

71. That wasn't MY pemise....

I Do NOT think she is this "Third Way" crap at all...

IN fact On The Issues puts Hillary as a Liberal Populist.....I guess Elizabeth Warren knows and thinks that is "terrific" and so do I!

[DJ13]

92. Hillary and Bill were among the earliest members of the DLC in the late 80's

[VanillaRhapsody]

122. So? I believe Elizabeth Warren was once voted Republican.....

but she sure is venerated around here.....

[DJ13]

125. Warren has changed

Has Hillary?

[VanillaRhapsody]

128. You seem to think you know so much about her.....have you changed at all since

Bill Clinton was in office?

(Oh and Hillary didn't HAVE to change.....she was already a Democrat)

[DJ13]

132. I'll get back to you after my two speeches at Goldman Sachs

Gotta eat, ya know.......

[Mojorabbit]

173. Great post. The op seems to be the meme released across the internets today including DU. nt

[mmonk]

22. ASk her.

Hillary was a former head of the DLC I think.

[Enrique]

29. exactly

nothing Warren or anyone else says can change the fact that Hillary is what she is.

[merrily]

216. Technically, Al From was the head.

The first two full time employees of the DLC were From and Will Marshall, who went on to found the Progressive Policy Institute (aka, "the place for pragmatic liberals", LOL The website actually used to say that. I don't think it does anymore.).

From was supposedly the head. However, there was certainly always a group of Conservadems in Congress, though Hillary and Bill were obviously not then among them.

Whether From approached the founding members or they hired him, or it was more organic, we'll probably never know for certain. In any event, officially, it was supposedly From's brainchild and his baby.

Hillary was a founding member (only female, that I know of), along with Bill, Lieberman, Gore and some others); and she was the member who traveled with From to spread the DLC message to people like Blair.

These sources confirm my statements and, obviously, give more information. They are an interesting read, especially for Democrats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_From

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Marshall

Of course, the DLC per se is all but gone, having donated its papers to Clinton's Presidential Library. But, Progressive Policy Institute, Third Way and a bunch of other think tanks live on and proliferate like Hydra's heads. At this point, the DLC philosophy has more names than a check forger.

While some of them are described as liberal, we know the reality. Worst, IMO, is No Labels, which is the closest admission of a uniparty that I know of. It was supposedly the brainchild of a Bushite, but is full of "pragmatic" Dems, including many who were in the Clinton administration. Reminds me of Bubba hiring Morris to help set policy.

Hillary's ties with The Fellowship trouble me as well.


The pros are obvious. Very smart, very experienced, two for the price of one (allegedly), with Bill aso being one of the smartest people on the planet and experienced too, very loyal, first female President, something for which I think the nation is ready--and Democratic women are more than ready, so a real GOTV plus, etc.

Senator Warren also has pros and cons for me. Having it seen crushes on politicians and the deception that resuts, I find them very dangerous.

[m-lekktor]

26. I suppose you could send her an email and ask her! I know what i think and why.

It doesn't matter to me what Elizabeth Warren or anybody else thinks, i have a mind of my own.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Does Warren think Hillary's support and votes for Bush's wars are also "terrific"?

[Dawgs]

32. How long have you been following politics?

Obama said very similar things, even while running against Hillary.

[Nye Bevan]

38. Ummmm.... Obama DID think Hillary was terrific. Why else would he name her SoS? (nt)

[Dawgs]

39. Ummm... the point is that it's not a big deal for Warren to say that Hillary is terrific. Disagree?

Or, did you have another point?

[Nye Bevan]

40. No, I believe that Warren thinks Hillary should be the next president.

So of course it's not a big deal that she praises her.

[Dawgs]

42. Interesting.

Blinded by love, I guess.

[Nye Bevan]

43. Well.... my opinion of Hillary is the same as Warren's.

So I guess I'm in good company.

[Beacool]

155. As if many here are not blinded by love for the person in your sig..........

[VanillaRhapsody]

56. Not a big deal for some....

apparently!

LMAO!!!

[Dawgs]

60. Why would it be a big deal for anyone?

They're both Democrats, no?

[VanillaRhapsody]

74. Because some here think Elizabeth Warren is the Second Coming....

and if SHE thinks Hillary Clinton is terrific....some here might think "that's not a big deal"....

[Dawgs]

86. That's not a reason.

Anyone that's been following politics for more than two minutes would realize pols say shit like about each other all of the time. It doesn't mean a damn thing.

[VanillaRhapsody]

123. Right......that is what this is an example of......oh yeah....except for that one other little thing

She was signatory to a letter encouraging Hillary Clinton to run!

[Fumesucker]

133. Warren would have to be the Third Coming..

Obama already has the Second Coming locked up on the DU..

[VanillaRhapsody]

135. He won the office.....big difference. Much to your dismay there are going to be statues

built to that President......When they are going to be naming buildings and post offices after you for years to come and statues to honor you.....you are pretty damn important figure in history. I don't see a problem with following a LEADER we elected by majority vote 2 elections in a row....AND who got us the biggest change in Healthcare in this country since Johnson.......I don't have a problem with that.....why do you?


(by the way....some of us were much more realistic and didn't EXPECT a savior)

[Fumesucker]

147. Umm.. I personally *like* Obama

By your standard Ronald Reagan is the most important politician in US history, it's a wonder everything in the country isn't named for him by now.

Your misconception is that I dislike Obama personally, I don't at all. My comment was light hearted like many of mine are, I just can't take this crap seriously any more and haven't for a while.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1480985

[VanillaRhapsody]

149. No he is not important to DEMOCRATS!

I think we are all Democrats here....at least I thought so....

[Fumesucker]

153. Important politicians get stuff named after them

That was your argument.

Regan has so many things named for him it's beyond pathetic.

Even National Airport in DC was named after Reagan.

Not everyone who criticizes things Obama does dislikes him personally. I can't say I even disliked Reagan personally although I disagreed with about 95% of what he did and said.

[VanillaRhapsody]

154. Yes they do.....

and he is STILL venerated by a large portion of the population.....on DU not so much

This is Democratic Underground....to US he is pure evil. How do you think those same guys feel about Pres. Barack Obama (hint they HATE him) that should be your first clue right there.

[Capt. Obvious]

141. Are you getting ready for the coming BOG war?

Assuming Hillary does run.

[Hekate]

34. shhhhh

Wouldn't want people thinking Senator Warren is an intelligent get-things-done politician in addition to being a brilliant professor we happen to agree with, would we?

Or conversely, wouldn't want people to reconsider their hatred at all things Hillary, either.

Senator Warren may simply be deflecting 2016 shiny-thing distractions by pointing to the issues that face us right this minute in 2014, like holding on to the Senate and gaining some seats in the House.

[Bobbie Jo]

65. Apparently,

"playing politics" is perfectly acceptable if EW does it.

Others....not so much.

Enjoying the contortionist sideshow over here.

[NCTraveler]

37. Because overall she is terrific.

I am so proud to be part of a party with these two women leading. And yes, EW is now a leading figure in our party and I know her role, whether Presidential or not, will have a very significant impact.

[Bluenorthwest]

41. Fact is that Hillary was a founding and leading member of the DLC, that's simple

history. Also, Warren was a Republican until sometime in the 90's. I'd have qualms about either of them as candidate. I was never a Republican, nor were my parents nor grandparents.

[Egnever]

44. politics

You haven't figured out how they work yet?

[Scuba]

45. Because she's too polite to publicly call Hillary a DINO.

[agbdf]

106. Hillary a DINO?

Hillary has spent her entire adult life as a champion for social Justice and our Democratic values. Her liberal credentials are well established and, in addition to becoming our first woman President, she is also going to be one of our greatest.

If you think HRC is not going to win our party's nomination for President in 2016 and go on to trounce whichever Republican she faces, you are not living in reality.

There is no candidate for 2016, in either party, who is more beloved by the American people than Hillary.

Perhaps the Greens will put up someone you like better but, President Hillary Clinton is a done deal!

[Scuba]

107. Personally, I don't think she can win. The right will turn out in droves to vote against her ....

... as they've been trained to do for the last 25 years.

On the left she has a nice clutch of diehard supporters and a whole bunch of people who simply don't like political dynasties and/or see her as way too cozy with Goldman Sachs, the XL Pipeline and WalMart. They would only vote for her as another "lesser of two evils" choice. Not very inspiring.

[agbdf]

108. I hope you're wrong. I'm a big Hillary supporter.

The only way I would not support Hillary is if President Obama was legally able to seek a third term.

[joshcryer]

144. Truth. And she will be more liberal than Obama.

[DonCoquixote]

160. More liberal

Please, Hillary may be many things, but kindly name something where she is actually to the left of Obama. Do not get me wrong,if she survives that primary, I will vote for her, but only because Lucifer himself is not as far to the right as the GOP.

[joshcryer]

161. Talking candidates here.

2016 candidate Clinton will be left of 2008 candidate Obama.

This is already known because Obama has "evolved" on issues and Clinton has already come out in support of gay marriage. That means objectively she will be left of Obama. She will also emphasize women's rights, which Obama couldn't really pull off anyway. She will be advocating for things like equal pay.

Of course, some liberals who dislike her and the Clinton dynasty will claim she's a shrill liar about the things she'll talk about.

[Capt. Obvious]

167. "will claim she's a shrill liar about the things she'll talk about."

Like sniper fire?

[joshcryer]

192. She told that story a dozen times.

She exaggerated the one time, and pow, she was accused of making shit up. She also admitted the mistake the same day if I recall correctly.

She'll be so damn scrutinized it's going to be interesting watching it.

[DonCoquixote]

174. how Clintonesque

the statement offered goes right up there with Hillary saying she would not run in 2008, and of course, whatever the meaning of "is" still is. You did nto talk about "candidate", you talked about her as if she was to the left, while we have plenty of evidence she would not be, unless of course, she finally does a 180 on her mid east policy, and calls to put back Glass-Steagall. Granted, she has ever chance to do just that, but she is not.

I like the way you used the term "dynasty", at least you are honest about that being what you want, however, the reason some of us call her a shrill liar is because she LIES. Her gender does not make anything she says truth or lies,the facts do.

[joshcryer]

193. I don't want Clinton.

The Blaire diaries show a Clinton who actually dislikes dishonesty. I think her faux pas in the 2008 primaries were just Clinton not knowing how to handle the image that the media focused on, as opposed to policy, it was all about image.

John Stewart hit on it last night with his Daily Show segment. Romney cries, it shows he's a very strong, very powerful man. Clinton cries it shows she's weak, can't control her emotions, puts her in a questionable place.

You can bet as this thing goes forward the media is going to crucify her.

[krawhitham]

46. Talk about spin

When asked "and do you think Hillary would make a good president" she avoided answering and instead stated “I think Hillary Clinton is terrific, We've got to stay focused on these issues right now.”

Maybe she is terrific at being a corporatist Third Way DLC Dem

[sufrommich]

47. I think some here have forgotten that Warren signed

a letter urging Hillary Clinton to run for president.

[winter is coming]

119. Gosh, I had forgotten that. Got a link to the letter? n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

48. More to the point is...

If Hillary is a corporatist Third Way DLC Dem, would you vote for her if she got the nomination?

Would her stand on, say, the TPP, be wrong enough to want anyone to see the Republican win? Would you sit on your ass and let the country slide further down the teabag road just because she's not "progressive" enough?

None of us will ever see our "perfect" candidate, so just how bad does a Democrat have to be to cede the White House to a Republican?

[Blue_In_AK]

49. Elizabeth is being a loyal party person in this instance.

[jwirr]

50. Sen. Warren is not necessarily endorsing Hillary for President. She could mean that Hillary is a nic

women. Sen. Warren then changes the subject telling us we need to focus on 2014 right now. That is how I read this.

[Art_from_Ark]

196. Absolutely. Warren was being diplomatic

and obviously not wanting to expand on her answer, since she quickly changed the subject to what it should be at this point in time.

[Enthusiast]

52. Elizabeth Warren is mistaken.

[MisterP]

55. so the new argument is Hillary's NOT corporatist and 3Way?

this is gonna get interesting

[hootinholler]

100. Oh, I've seen that argument

I even was alerted on when I called Hillary the DLC poster child.

Since her photo was featured so prominently on their web site, she should be proud of that.

[djean111]

58. There really isn't anything anyone can say or do to make Hillary more palable to those, like me, who

abhor the Third Way. Warren is just being a polite politician, she is not espousing Hilliary's policies in toto.
Crowing about "Terrific!" or the signing of some supportive letter is not going to accomplish anything useful.
And there is nothing about "Terrific!" that makes Hillary any less of a Third Way Corporatist - in fact, I believe Hillary would describe herself as such. Warren saying anything at all doesn't change Hillary's stripes. Insulting to opine otherwise, really.
I think the Third Way/DNC would do better to just settle on hey, Hillary is better than an official Republican, and let it go at that.
Less tiresome, less irritating.

I am looking forward with a sort of fascinated horror at the coming spin for the TPP and Keystone.

[Raksha]

187. Well said.

I have no reason to believe Hillary isn't the Third Way DLC corporatist she has always been, and I will no more vote for a Third Way DLC corporatist than I would vote for a Republican.

If she gets the the Democratic nomination, I'll vote third party like I did in 2012.

[Vashta Nerada]

59. People always play nice when it comes to public comments about others.

What's Warren expected to say, "I think Hillary Clinton is a piece of garbage"?

[Kelvin Mace]

70. Please tell me you

were being "satirical".

[aikoaiko]

72. Mirt moved fast.

I'm thinking a Vince Foster reference is a good indication that would be member was trolling.

[Kelvin Mace]

75. Well,

I was giving the benefit of a doubt and asking for clarification. Anyone who meant that seriously is an idiot or a troll.

[greatauntoftriplets]

73. Probably not, unfortunately.

[Kelvin Mace]

68. What is she supposed to say?

I don't to doubt that Warren's admiration of Clinton may be anything but genuine, but she is also smart enough to know that any public disagreement is going to be counter-productive in every way imaginable.

Realistically, busting the chops of the party's anointed contender is by definition a "career ending/limiting move".

I take her failure to criticize HRC's obvious pro-corporate sympathies as prima facia evidence that she has no intention of running for the nomination. If she was planning a run, then her first move would be to point out her opponent's collusions with the enemy and fire up the base to rally to her battle standard.

Also, if one is to look at things from a more Machiavellian lens, by keeping her mouth shut she sets herself up as an attractive VP choice, which would allow Clinton to appeal to the liberal wing of the party. It would allow the Dems to field a second historical ticket, and one up Obama by having two women in the White House. That is a juggernaut that would galvanize three key demographics: Women, youth and liberals.

A fight between Warren and Clinton is in no one's best interest in the Democratic party, and I say that as a person with no great love for the Clinton's and their pro-corporate, center-right policies.

[stevenleser]

89. If she didn't believe what she was saying, the answer to your 1st question is "absolutely nothing"

It's really easy to do. If she thinks Hillary goes about things the wrong way or against her (Elizabeth's) belief system, she could refuse to comment about her and use one of about a hundred different excuses (I haven't been following her very closely is usually a good one). Or she could have specifically commented on the things about her that she likes.

[whistler162]

69. All your fault.....

if you didn't dislike her so much Senator Warren would not like her so much.

[msongs]

76. note: she did not say clinton's political views are terrific, only that hillary is terrific nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

79. So wait ...

how are we to know when the literal response to a question is the real answer to the question ... or when to dig deeper and read between the lines?

Is there a rule book I can refer to?

[AgingAmerican]

172. You are right

There is a lot of hair splitting and interpretation based on personal views going on here.

[Sunlei]

80. “I think Hillary Clinton is terrific,”she said.“We've got to stay focused on these issues right now"

I agree with Sen. Elizabeth Warren.
IMO, all the Clinton bashers do is keep focus off the issues that are important to all people, not just Ds.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

81. "Reformed" Republicans

"Reformed" Republicans can only go so far.

They can never plumb the depths of their thinking. They never really get the whole picture.

[Maedhros]

82. Political personalities' opinions of one another are not that important.

It's PR, nothing more.

[JDPriestly]

83. I'm sure Hillary and Elizabeth Warren like each other.

But only Elizabeth Warren would make a good president.

Hillary may be terrific, but Warren is the right person to be elected president in 2016.

[elleng]

84. What would you have her say, in public?

'Diplomacy' is important.

[stevenleser]

94. See my #89 above. nt

[frylock]

87. when asked if clinton would make a good president, warren replied 'i like turtles'

[prommie]

88. Because Hillary is a terrific corporatist, third way, DLC

co-founder, never forget, co-founder.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

207. No worries, true progressives will NEVER forget this wolf in sheep's clothing.

[whatchamacallit]

90. Why do some people think lima beans are terrific?

Who gives a shit?

[Autumn]

91. Do you think Hillary would make a good president?

Hillary is a terrific person. So is Elizabeth. Two very admirable women who are wonderful role models. I am not fond of corporatist third way DLC Dem's myself but I think some of them are pretty terrific people.

[DeSwiss]

93. For a Third Way DLC Dem......

...she is terrific. She's the best they've got.

- But Elizabeth was referring to her dress being terrific.......

[Beacool]

220. That's an Oscar de la Renta gown and coat that he designed for Bill's second inaugural.

[joshcryer]

96. Because Warren is no more liberal than 3rd way Udall.

[MannyGoldstein]

97. Because Hillary *is* terrific

At many things.

Just none of those things involve stopping the frightful plummet of the 99%.

[Cali_Democrat]

105. Looks like Warren isn't playing the game...

of pitting Dems against one another.

She's an excellent Senator and definitely not a ratfucker.

Excelsior!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

98. See this gray thing? It's either black, or it's white. Decide now.

Party unity plus politics. There's your answer. Nuance--use it or lose it.

[Tarheel_Dem]

101. K&R!

[Obnoxious_One]

112. That's what I love about Elizabeth Warren

Last edited Tue Apr 22, 2014, 09:04 PM - Edit history (1)

She's so gracious and diplomatic.

[otherone]

115. She is terrific and a DLC Dem. The two ain't mutually exclusive

[ZombieHorde]

116. That is a good question for Warren.

The article was too short and vague to determine for me to come up with any real answer.

[Shoulders of Giants]

120. Its all politics

All of the politicians engage in it. Trying to find a consistent thread is impossible.

[99Forever]

124. Good grief.

You would think someone who has over 20,000 posts on a political forum, would have at least a rudimentary knowledge of the basics of politics.


I guess not.

[Cali_Democrat]

136. Elizabeth Warren isn't playing politics

She genuinely thinks Hillary is terrific.

[99Forever]

148. One word for you, Cali_Democrat,

Diplomacy.

[Beacool]

194. And you would think that someone with some common sense would realize that both women get along.

[libodem]

126. Because it is so unflattering

For Democrats to be accused of "Eating their own".

And on the whole Hillary is terrific. There is a lot of good about her. I'd take her hands down over any Republican alive or dead except maybe Lincoln.

[Zorra]

134. She's certainly not going to talk trash about Wall Streets' chosen Democratic Presidential

nominee.

It would be really bad form, and she'd have egg on her face after Hillary is officially chosen at primary time.

[treestar]

137. Because EW is also a corporatist Third Way DLC Dem, obviously

[joshcryer]

145. Actually, her liberal rating isn't so hot.

Check out That's My Congress.

[roody]

157. Because she is a team player.

[Boom Sound 416]

158. It was a dodge

[iandhr]

166. Because nothing satisfies purists.

Purists can't be reasoned with. There the same people who could tell the difference between Bush and Gore.

People here call the ACA a sellout and a step in the wrong direction. The fact that 8,000,000 people have care now doesn't matter to those people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024752961

It doesn't cross their minds that someone like Elizabeth Warren can be attorney general which would scare Wall Street s***less.

They can't see that in McCutcheon v FEC every justice appointed by a Democrat voted the right way and that when a vacancy comes up on SCOUTS Hillary would make a could choice.

[djean111]

182. What does all of that have to do with disagreeing that when Warren says "Terrific!" she means that

Hillary is not a corporatist Third-Wayer? That's the question at hand.

[iandhr]

169. Maybe Warren's ambition to chair the Senate banking committee.

Has anyone here ever consider that? If you did you are smarter than I am. The thought just occurred to me today. She will have WAY for influence that way. If she became President her influence would end sooner.

[Blue_Tires]

170. Because Warren is smart enough to *NOT* bash Hillary in public?

Regardless of what her real opinion may be??

[arely staircase]

175. Democrats and liberals overwhelmingly like HRC

So it makes sense that she would.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

176. Her being part of the DLC isn't up for debate.

She was and wore it proudly.

[Marr]

178. Yeah, I don't get this denial. /nt

[2pooped2pop]

177. what did anyone think she would say?

It would not be wise to say anything negative. She knows this.

[Marr]

179. Uhh...

She has a long history with the DLC. Are you really asserting that isn't the case?

[JackRiddler]

213. Shhhh!

Someone in her party (Elizabeth Warren, who so far has been on record against the DLC program) was polite in speaking about her, therefore any criticism makes you into a hypocrite!

[Raksha]

184. I don't know. I think she was just being polite.

I used to think Hillary was terrific too, but that was quite some time ago.

[Beacool]

195. This notion that Liz Warren and Hillary Clinton don't get along is nonsense.

Some of you are projecting your dislike of Hillary onto Warren and can't accept facts. Both women are of similar age and background. There's something sexist about thinking that these two ladies would get in a political cat fight. It's not going to happen.

And Warren is correct, Hillary IS terrific. I find it amusing how those who trash her endlessly haven't even met her, let alone gotten to know her.

I'm glad that I live in the real world and not some parallel DU universe. In RL these two mature women are not at war with each other.

[djean111]

202. Maybe I don't read the correct threads, but I have never seen a thread saying

that Warren and Clinton do not get along.
I don't really care if they do, but they most probably do get along.
I just do not like Clinton's policies, and I like what I see of Warren's policies.
Clinton loves the TPP, Warren says if we all saw what was in it, we would be angry. Stuff like that.
Nothing else is remotely interesting or important. Politics is not a social event. At least not for me.
Warren and Clinton could be BFFs, and I still would not like Clinton's policies.
And I don't understand why meeting her would or should make any difference whatsoever - the idea that it would, is ridiculous.
Policies, not personalities, please.

[Beacool]

205. Did you read the responses?

Many are parsing Warren's words. I have enough respect for the lady to take her at her word. I don't know why some here want to ascribe motives to her that are all in their minds. That was my point. It has nothing to do with either one's take on the issues.

[djean111]

208. What I read yesterday were OPs stating that when Warren said "Terrific!, and now can we get back

to today's issues!" (paraphrased) - what Warren meant was she does not think Hillary is a Corporatist Third Wayer, so no one else should, either. Especially us recalcitrant Warren admirers who do not like Hillary's policies.
The only parsing I saw was from those who were pushing the meme that the "Terrific" meant Hillary could not possibly be a Corporatist Third Wayer, because Warren would never have said "Terrific!" if she was. That lonely little "Terrific!" was given a ridiculous amount of weight.

If I Google Hillary and terrific, I see that Donald Trump thinks Hillary is terrific, too.
Which leads me to the conclusion that nowadays Terrific! is just a meaningless adjective, especially when someone is trying to talk about issues and someone else feels the need to ask them how they feel about Hillary.

I have to believe those sorts of OPs are just begging for replies. And if anyone thinks OPs like that change even one mind, they need to go back to Politics'R'Us camp. The neener-neener stuff does not work the way folks think it does.

[JackRiddler]

215. Actually, no...

It is completely irrelevant to anything anyone should think.

How did Clinton vote and how does Warren vote? What do either of them advocate as policy and how believable are they? These might be interesting questions. (In Clinton's case, not very, since she has proven herself to be neoliberal generally with a standard imperialist foreign policy.)

By contrast, we have here the question: What did Warren or Clinton tell a reporter about the other, and what does it mean? These are the concerns of gossip-sheet readers. About as important as whatever argument George Clooney may have had with some casino owner while they were drunk.

[Marr]

217. I'd say there's something sexist about your equating of political differences

Last edited Fri Apr 25, 2014, 01:22 PM - Edit history (1)

with a "cat fight".

People can like each other personally-- even think someone is "terrific"-- and still disagree politically. When you add the fact that we're talking about politicians from the same party, this argument that 'Warren described Hillary Clinton as 'terrific', therefore she's not a corporatist, DLC Dem', is just stupefyingly dumb.

[Beacool]

218. What is "just stupefyingly dumb" is trying to pit these two women against each other.

Warren is not playing that game and neither is Hillary (she praised her this week while visiting Boston).

[Marr]

219. Who is doing that? The OP is saying that Clinton cannot be a corporatist DLCer because

Warren called her "terrific". That's just dumb.

[vi5]

201. Holy crap! Do you mean to tell me...

That someone I like and respect, respects a person who I don't personally want as president!! That's insane!

I realize the order of the day on this place is lock step uber alles, but this whole notion of "OMG WARREN LIKES HILLARY SO YOU HAVE TO LIKE HER TOO!!!!!" is childish at best. Which actually makes sense given the high degree of childlike idol worship to labels that so many people have around here.

[L0oniX]

209. Can ya feel all the corporate love here?

[Rex]

211. Because, like Hillary Clinton, she is very smart.

Smart, smart lady.