What do you think would be a fair description of Hillary Clinton's political leanings?

[Douglas Carpenter]

30 votes, 3 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Hillary Clinton is a progressive in the same or similar tradition as Sen. Elizabeth Warren
	0 (0%)
	Hillary Clinton is an old style New Deal/Great Society liberal
	2 (7%)
	Hillary Clinton is a European type social-democrat
	0 (0%)
	Hillary Clinton is in the McGovernite New Deal tradition - Old style New Dealer but would support major reductions in military spending and U.S. military interventionism
	0 (0%)
	Hillary Clinton is essentially in the third-way, DLC, "New Democrat" tradition.
	24 (80%)
	Hillary Clinton does not have any firm political ideological tradition
	2 (7%)
	Most American pizzas these days have crust that are practically tasteless. A mark of a good pizza is one where you can truly find a distinctive taste in the crust.
	2 (7%)
	3 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[tridim]

1. Other: Hillary Clinton isn't running in 2014.

Focus, people.

[clarice]

80. agreed. nt

[dionysus]

2. i would have voted typical centrist dem. not liberal economic issues, liberal on social ones.

[OKNancy]

3. only on DU is she not considered Liberal

100% NARAL, planned parenthood and NOW rating. Pro choice on all votes
Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage - supports full marriage equality
Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment
Supports arts education and the Nat. Endowment for the arts
Pro- public education ( based on her voting record)
Voted NO on drilling in ANWR
Scored 100% by the Humane Society
Rated 0% by the Christian Coalition
went against Bill and does not support NAFTA
voted against CAFTA
supports same day voter registration - against voter id laws
supported verified paper ballot for every electronic voting machine
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers
Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence
pro stem cell research
believes in climate change
Voted YES on restricting employer interference in union organizing.
has voted yes on all minimum wage increases

voted No on Alito and Roberts for the Supreme court

100% rating by Service Employees International Union (SEIU) - Positions
100% rating by Alliance for Retired Americans
100% rating by the NEA ( National Education Association )
100% rating by the NAACP

A= rating by United To End Genocide - Positions on Darfur

LOL - new one: F- rating by Gun Owners of America - Positions on Gun Rights

Lifetime AFL-CIO score = 94%

Most information above taken from: http://votesmart.org/candidate/evaluations/55463/hillary-clinton#.UuwtqPldXp9
and http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/55463/hillary-clinton#.UuwuSfldXp8

[sabrina 1]

10. She supports and voted for Bush's foreign policy, went further on Syria and Libya. She is

definitely Third Way. She is still proud of her support for Iraq. Sorry, that is not a Liberal.

The Right thinks O'Reilly is Liberal because he opposes the DP. Who cares what they think?

What matters is how actual, real Left/Dems and Independents view her.

We found out in 2008.

I supported the candidate who opposed Bush's crime against humanity known as the Iraq invasion.

So did millions of others.

Despite being told the Iraq War Crime is 'small pickens' or some such nonsense, here on DU today, that is going to haunt her if she runs. Her foreign policy support for the Third Way/Bush/Cheney policies on foreign policies.

[Victor_c3]

39. +1 to all of that

I'm astounded that people are willing to overlook her IWR vote and her complete unwillingness to apologize for her part in enabling that war.

At best her IWR vote demonstrates that she is willing to discard her morals (assuming that she has any) in order to further her political career. At worst, it shows that she is a cold heartless warmonger and akin to bush. Either way, it does not reflect well on Hillary Clinton and gives us some very good insight into her true character.

[Scuba]

46. + another. She also speaks like a right-winger on the small matter of Social Security ...

[yeoman6987]

54. What I like about her is that she makes decisions on what she believes

and not what others are going to hold against her over a decade later. That is leadership. I hope and pray that she is our nominee and next President of the United States of America. She certainly deserves it. She has selflessly given to the country her entire life. Time for her to be rewarded for all the sacrifices she has done.

[Capt. Obvious]

60. She believes in poll tested positions

[sabrina 1]

67. I agree, she voted for Bush's war because she believes in Bush's foreign policies. I just said

that. That is why I did not support her in 2008.

Leadership means being RIGHT about major issues not supporting those who are lying and who could not have been more wrong.

No one DESERVES to be President. It is not a PRIZE to be awarded to someone.

This is the problem with how Corporations have skewed the thinking of some voters. They have succeeded in making it like a Hollywood Oscar event, where everywhere gets to choose from a few 'nominees' and vote their favorite personality.

[yeoman6987]

70. We are going to have to disagree

Luckily I will be on the side of her winning the nomination for President. I know that in 2008, she was beaten by Senator Obama, but the country was not about to have an establishment president after 8 years of President Bush. The country was ready for a new ideas President....hope and change....2016 the country is ready for establishment and Hillary is as establishment as you get. I refuse to penalize her for the rest of her life for one vote that many Democrats voted for as well. It would be one thing if she was the only Democrat to have voted for the war in Iraq. I wish her the best as she adds another title to her already overwhelming resume....Madam President.

[sabrina 1]

71. Oh it wasn't one vote. It was one of the most important decisions elected officials had to make

at that time and the continuation of her support by helping to fund Bush's massive crime, plus her own statement after other Dems finally apologized for their disastrous support for one on the worst administrations in living memory, she continues to claim she 'did the right thing'. That shows an incredible lack of ability to be in a position of power. She AGREES with Bush's policies and electing her would mean a continuation of those policies.

We will have to disagree and I am hoping wiser heads will prevail and persuade her not to run so the country can have a real choice of a good leader who did NOT make that terrible and costly, both in lives and treasure, can run an hopefully win, then start the process of holding the war criminals accountable so the US can regain its lost moral authority around the world.

[yeoman6987]

74. I am so torn

I cannot say more truthfully that you are right, but I really admire her overall too. I look at her and see a woman who has worked so hard to try and become President, but I also see that she really made a fatal error in voting for the war. We will have to wait and see what happens. Perhaps she won't run.

[sabrina 1]

79. I appreciate your honesty and having met Hillary and truly admiring her (through my job

at the time) I was very impressed with her than and wanted nothing more than to see her rise politically if for no other reason than to 'stick it' to the Far Right. But that is why I was so disappointed in her vote as I watched that night, desperately hoping as we all were, that Dems would stick together and not give Bush the power they gave him that night.

She has never explained her vote, other than to say it was based on the 'intelligence' they had. However that has been contradicted by Sen. Graham, I believe, a Dem, who has stated without equivocation, that some Dems refused to look at the actual Intel which was available to them and which he begged them to look at before casting that vote but some refused.

In good conscience I will not be able to support her or anyone who made such a terrible error in judgement, and so I am hoping we get someone who we all can support enthusiastically.

Anyhow, we will see, as you said. Meantime we have a Congressional election coming up which at this point I believe is way more important then the Presidential elections. We need Congress on our side regardless of who is in the WH.

Thanks again for a civil discussion.

[kenfrequed]

77. Feh

The progressives still haven't gotten what we voted for. The third way dems and blue dogs helped waste President Obama's first two years and since then it has been tea party crap all the way.

I don't want an establishment democrat. I want a real radical. Give me Warren any day!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

51. She was pro-NAFTA before she was against it, and she's pro-TPP

as it's been pointed out even here that she helped draft it, and it's easy enough to google up articles on her giving pro-TPP speeches.

Add Walmart board membership, $400k Goldman Sachs speeches, and the rest of her history in re economics, and she's no 'liberal' when it comes to the economic well-being of the little people. She's another one of the Dems who believe that the poor should be given a few crumbs to keep them alive and able to work to continue to enrich their overlords, rather than Republicans who would simply work them til they starve.

She's good on social issues because those don't endanger the flow of money upwards.

[The Magistrate]

4. I Would Consider Her A Left Of Center Type, Sir

Someone who might break a little farther than I might like to see in order to get something done, but also someone willing to fight, which does count for a lot with me.

[Douglas Carpenter]

12. Is one mistaken to associate her philosophy with the actions of her husband's administration?

An administration that did in fact do as much or possibly even more to dismantle the New Deal as Ronald Reagan's administration.

[joshcryer]

34. Yes. The Diane Blair diaries illustrate a leftist.

But a pragmatist.

[joshcryer]

33. The fight is what I like about Clinton.

The fight is what we need.

[mylye2222]

5. As far as I read about her, definetly DLC.

She is the counterpart of democratic conservatism in europe.

A person like John Kerry or Barbara Boxer is like a social democrat.

And someone like Elizabeth Warren seems to me what we in europe call centrism.

[JaneyVee]

6. The secret to a good crust is good water and good cornmeal

[awoke_in_2003]

8. and a coal fired oven...

sorry, I just recently discovered we have a Grimaldi's down here. Finally, good pizza in Texas.

[lunasun]

29. Yes!! good cornmeal makes it

[Enthusiast]

7. Some things we know for certain.

TPTB do not mind social liberals. Or those liberal on the social issues like abortion and smoking dope.

But on financial issues, like allowing the banks to defraud the citizen and "free trade", they will not tolerate someone that is not in their camp.

[sabrina 1]

69. And War. They must support all of our Imperial Wars. Wall St and Wars, that's all

that matters. Those running things do not care one bit about Gays, Women, Minorities either way, other than to keep up the pretense that we have two distinct parties. So they use those issues in every election and then forget about them until they need them again.

Proof of this? Women still do not have the ERA after all these decades. Keeping the issue alive so it can be used when necessary.

I think the people are finally beginning to understand this game they've been playing and it's getting harder to point to someone who is a Wall St and War supporter but who 'fights' for women, eg and claim 'looks, s/he IS a Liberal. People just aren't buying it anymore.

[Enthusiast]

75. Absolutely.

War especially. They cannot wait until the next war.

They have even revived abortion as an issue. They have lost the gay issue for now, however.

Yes, millions of us can now see through their game. Even in the face of constant propaganda!

[leftstreet]

9. A Hedge Fund Democrat - neither right nor left n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

11. some more results

[msanthrope]

13. I worked for HRC when she employed David Brock's partner. In the 90's.

So I'm betting a shit-ton of personages on this board better learn some DNC history...right quick.

[Aerows]

14. Your endorsement alone

tells me that I'm not ready for Hillary.

[msanthrope]

17. I bet the racoon is.

[Aerows]

19. That jibe isn't even effective anymore

get some new material to slander me with.

[msanthrope]

20. Slander is generally spoken defamation. I think you mean 'libel' and I

think my affirmative defense is truth.

[Aerows]

22. A personal attack is a personal attack

You know it, I know it. It doesn't paint you in a good light, but I'm sure you don't give a shit.

That's where we differ.

[msanthrope]

24. Indeed....I make no judgment..I merely offer the OP you authored....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024284727

What have you to say on HRC?????

[Aerows]

27. I didn't realize this thread was about

How Raccoons Clamp.

I thought it was about the original topic, not deviating from it so that you could take a personal swipe at someone that disagrees with you.

You were the one that brought all of that into this thread.

It's pretty tawdry to attack people just for the sake of scoring whatever personal points you are keeping.

[joshcryer]

38. Pretty sure your response was the deviation.

You dismissed the poster's support for Clinton offhand, what did you expect would happen? You literally said that their "endorsement" was all you needed to know that you weren't "ready for Clinton."

I personally forgot about the raccoon thing and didn't even see it as an insult. Sorry you had to go through that, but you asked for that snide remark. Look at post #12 in that thread. If you followed her advice she may have saved your life. Raccoons are the largest reservoir of rabies on the planet.

If anything I think she was poking fun with a little treatment at you without being overly mean. You got bit, you went through some trying times, but she's glad you're here. The overly biting raccoon is "ready for Hillary" in so much that it'll bite anyone.

[Beacool]

64. This........

[Bobbie Jo]

81. Oh surely not.

So uncharacteristic.

[L0oniX]

62. +1

[WillyT]

15. Link Please !!!

[msanthrope]

18. To what, precisely? nt

[WillyT]

25. To Anything That Comes Close To Proving The Assertion At Post #13...

Thanks in advance.

[msanthrope]

26. Which assertion? I presume you've already read David Brock's seminal work

on his conversion to the light, so what exactly are you looking for?

[WillyT]

28. Well... How Is A Duer To... "learn some DNC history...right quick."

Without the appropriate link ?

[joshcryer]

32. I mentioned this in the other thread.

Great minds.

[Aerows]

21. A poster that goes out of her way to insult other DUers

and you expect her to provide a link? She's much too comfortable making attacks as personal as possible to stifle conversation, ergo the response she made up thread.

[Number23]

31. I love how TWO MINUTES after you posted this response someone personally attacked you

with the needless commentary that if you support Hillary then they know not to. But somehow downthread, YOU were the one launching personal attacks and being nasty.

I swear some of these people around here have simply GOT to be putting on some type of performance.

[FSogol]

45. +1, you nailed it. Some are just here for the car crashes!

[MohRokTah]

16. This poll says more about this site's leanings than Hillary Clinton's. eom

[Beacool]

65. You said it.........

[Luminous Animal]

23. She is a Goldwater Republican.

[joshcryer]

36. So she deserves 157 recs?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002560884

[Exposethefrauds]

37. Yes indeed, Goldwater Girl, DLC Hack, Unworthy of my vote or support

However it seems like any old hack who puts a (D) after their name has to be blindly supported here and that is something I will not do.

[Douglas Carpenter]

30. another one please

[joshcryer]

35. Her "political leanings" evolve.

Her ideological leanings are probably left of center with an aspiration for internationalism because of the US's place in the world.

Internationalism means possibly being hawkish, unfortunately. Other than that, Clinton is left of Obama both ideologically and politically.

[lululu]

43. left of Obama?

Not much of a claim, given how both of them love war. She's also sold her soul to the Israelis to get elected in New York. So, we can kiss off the Middle East even more than we have already if she's President. Libya was at least a stable country with a middle class, free education, free healthcare, rights for women, before she and Obama turned it into an unstable mess where people can't safely set foot outside their front doors.

[KoKo]

55. Hillary Clinton on Gaddafi: We came, We saw, He died--chuckle, chuckle, chuckle

That revealed more than I ever thought possible about her thought process and beliefs.

[aikoaiko]

40. She's a JFK Democrat.

[lululu]

42. oh, that's horrible

She isn't fit to shine his shoes. He really cared about people, and was an intelligent, thoughtful person. Hillary is out for number one.

[woo me with science]

44. Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

War is Peace!

[lululu]

41. pretty much a Republican

Changed her party affiliation because of Bill's political ambitions, but didn't change her spots.

[Scuba]

47. A Republican with a soft spot for a few social justice issues, Social Security NOT included ...

[octoberlib]

61. Privatizing Social Security was

one of the DLC's positions. My worry is where Hillary stands economically. For instance, will she further de-regulate Wall Street, leading to another horrific crash, as her husband did?

[Recursion]

48. Ah, the myth of ideology...

You're either left of the status quo, and able to nudge that status quo a tiny bit left, or you're right of the status quo and able to nudge that status a tiny bit right. Period.

[Tom Rinaldo]

49. A cross between Third Way and New Deal (yes an awkward mix)

I think she has a genuine liberal streak in her, but she has spent decades embroiled in the mechanics of politics at the upper levels and her pragmatic streak (which is another matter entirely - not left or right so much as a desire to both politically survive and be "effective&quot leads her to making many centrist accommodations that she has become comfortable with as the cost of doing (politics) business..

I have always thought and still do that Hillary Clinton has more liberal instincts than her husband, not by much but slightly.

[woo me with science]

50. I love these kinds of posts.

Sort of a propaganda penetration meter. How many people are chanting the Third Way 2 + 2 = 5 at any point in time?

War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.
Hillary Clinton will Save the Middle Class.

That magic, eternal 25 percent. There is always a 25 percent who will testify to anything: Jesus toast, or crop circles, or even middle-class protecting corporate Democrats. The persistence of that 25 percent, defying all evidence and reality, is one of the creepy mysteries of our existence.

[VanillaRhapsody]

52. This AGAIN?

Hillary Clinton is a Populist-Leaning Liberal.
http://www.ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

for a little contrast...here is Dennis Kucinich


Dennis Kucinich is a Hard-Core Liberal.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Dennis_Kucinich.htm

[MineralMan]

53. Let's discuss this when she announces her candidacy.

It's 2014. We have an election coming up.

GOTV 2014!

[KoKo]

56. The time to talk about her is now. 2014 is not about who is running for President.

We Democrats will be at the polls voting for our Democratic local representatives and Senators and House Members.

But, time is now to discuss Hillary since most of us know she's going to run.

[MineralMan]

57. Don't just vote in 2014.

Be part of the GOTV effort, too. One vote is good. Bringing more voters to the polls is better. Candidates need your help now.

[Vashta Nerada]

58. There is no way she's a liberal.

She's a corporatist.

[closeupready]

73. +1000.

[randome]

59. Depends on humidity, barometric pressure and other weather-related factors.

I'll still vote for her if she wins the primary and she'll still kick some GOP ass but...
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

63. "Winning is everything" opportunist.

[Marr]

66. Look over this thread. The conservative Dems on this board are for her.

It's almost funny when they all chime in together to insist that she's a liberal, when they regularly use the word "left" as a pejorative.

[closeupready]

72. Yes. That is an astute observation. 1% Dems want Hillary, BAD.

Meanwhile, work-a-day dems strongly do NOT want her.

It's going to be even MORE difficult to sell her candidacy now than it was the FIRST time around, when she was also inevitable.

[lumberjack_jeff]

68. Labels are tough on two levels.

one: applying the right label and
two: universal understanding of what the label means.

By design, the only one that has a squishy enough definition to encompass all of her views is #5, the dlc/new democrat one, which of course is intended as a pejorative. Did you use a dismissive hand-wave while typing it?

Push polls are pushy.

[Douglas Carpenter]

82. no, "third way," "DLC" and "New Democrat" are the terms that element of the Democratic Party have

long used to describe themselves. I am not inclined to tell people that they are not what they call themselves.

[Jackpine Radical]

76. Neoliberal

[2banon]

78. a handful of frequent posters actually think HLC is a progressive!

[IDemo]

83. She's a progressive

And I'm Leon Trotsky.

[Douglas Carpenter]

84. one, two three

[FarCenter]

85. Opportunist