Germany Helped Prep Russia for War, U.S. Sources Say

[dipsydoodle]

Over the past few years, NATO countries have helped Russia revolutionize its armed forces. Now questions are arising about a German defense contractor that trained the Russian military.

The world was shocked when Russian special operations forces invaded Crimea with advanced technology, drastically improved operations, and with so much operational security that even agencies in the U.S. intelligence community didn’t see it coming. In Washington, government and congressional leaders are wondering how the Russian special operations forces got so good, so fast, without anyone noticing. Some are wondering how much help Russia had from the West.

In 2011, for example, the German defense contractor Rheinmetall signed a $140 million contract to build a combat simulation training center in Mulino, in southwest Russia, that would train 30,000 Russian combat troops per year. While the facility wasn't officially scheduled to be completed until later this year, U.S. officials believe that Germany has been training Russian forces for years.

Rheinmetall defended the project even after the invasion of Crimea, up until the German government finally shut it down late last month. But many tracking the issue within the U.S. government were not happy with Germany's handling of the Russian contract, and worry that some of the training may have gone to the kind of special operations forces now operating in and around Ukraine.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/22/germany-helped-prep-russia-for-war-u-s-sources-say.html

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. Maybe at some point, countries will start realizing that

it's never a good idea to train or arm other people. It's never turned out well in the long run for the US.

[DetlefK]

3. Define "other people".

Anybody you trust is "the same people as you".

Germany overestimated their friendship with Russia and underestimated the imperialist tendencies of Putin.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

4. Then don't trust anyone?

Don't export weapons, don't export training. No exceptions.

[DetlefK]

10. That's not economically viable.

You think the companies selling weapons and military-equipment will be happy when they are forced to do so only in their own countries?

The US: guns, planes...
Germany: guns, tanks, submarines...
France: helicopters...

There's big money in there and it would be foolish to boycott this unilaterally: If the US doesn't sell military stuff to Canada or Israel or Egypt or Saudi-Arabia, where will they buy it? UK, Germany, France, Russia.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

11. And that's why the world is such a hellhole.

The love of money.

All evil may not flow from the love of money, but sure as heck a large amount of it does.

Screw the environment, if we can make money by burning fossil fuels as long as possible! Screw small countries if we can make money selling guns and planes to other nations! All bow down to the almighty dollar!

[malaise]

6. Maybe Germany realized that this planet needs a balance of power

and the NSA spying on the German leader sure hasn't helped.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

8. If the world needs a 'balance of power'

Germany already had far more than Russia, thanks to their business savvy. They'll do more to help the world balance of power by creating an EU-run internet that the NSA can't simply grab every single bit of data on than by helping Russia take over a bunch of third-rate countries around it.

[bemildred]

2. We really are desperate to pry Russia and the EU apart.

Which is historically, geographically, and economically a fatuous idea. But hey, we make our own reality.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

7. From each other?

The most realistic notion of 'national security' should involve not being dependent upon specific other nations for such basic needs as energy or food. If you're not self-sufficient, you still need to make sure you're not placing any great concentration of your needs in any other single nation's hands. It gives them too much power over you. 9/11? Mostly Saudis. But did we attack Saudi Arabia? No. We attacked Iraq, which had absolutely nothing to do with the attacks. Saudi Arabia has had us by the short and curlies for decades thanks to the fossil fuel industry doing everything possible to keep us tied to fossil fuels. And Russia has the EU and the former USSR countries by the short and curlies with natural gas.

[bemildred]

12. Given the advances of globalization, being economically independent is "difficult".

I do think that "localization" is a good idea, but it's not what is happening.

But yeah, that Russian "influence" is what we are trying to counter, but the methods being used will not work, being largely rhetorical. Our Russian policy has been incoherent for a long time, but then the government itself has been incoherent for a long time.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

13. I misread your title there for a second.

I thought you wrote 'advantages' and was about to ask 'for whom'.

I actually don't think globalization is inherently bad. But I think it's being pressed largely by those who simply want to concentrate wealth in the hands of the few while exploiting the masses. I'd love to see people working together globally without the profit margin being involved, simply because centers of skill in one type of work being in different places. But the reality of globalization as it exists is simply inequality of pay and environmental and safety regulation. If German or Japanese knives or other housewares are simply better quality, I have no problem choosing to buy them because of quality. But I don't want to wear clothing made by people in sweatshops being paid pennies on the dollar of what they should so that a few plutocrats can add a few more dollars to their Swiss accounts.

As to Russian sanctions, if they're to have meaning, they have to go hard. Cut them off entirely as long as their troops occupy Ukrainian territory, and demand that all 'ally' nations do the same. Completely isolate the entire country economically, so that the people of Russia will be annoyed that Putin's ego hurt them at the dinner table and demand he back off.

[bemildred]

14. Yes, the profit motive poisons everything when it becomes the only motive.

Properly, it ought to be a secondary motive. I can remember when customers in this country were respected and catered to. Now they are treated like marks.

We will only isolate ourselves by attempting to divide the EU and Russia. And perhaps fracture the EU and NATO while we are at it. And Ukraine will be dismembered. Is being dismembered.

We would do better to "keep our friends close and our enemies closer", but we can't make up our minds about it.

[DURHAM D]

5. and the U.S. is right in there helping them as well

The armed forces of NATO members have also been working with their counterparts in the Russian military, on and off, for years. Russia has held joint military exercises with both Germany and the U.S., for example. America has bought Russian helicopters to use in Afghanistan. And Moscow allows NATO equipment to pass through Russian territory as the gear comes into and out of the war zone.

[dembotoz]

9. good thing we don't export any weapons

[pampango]

15. Until recently I don't think many people viewed Russia as an enemy or even a potential enemy.

The post-USSR Russia had no history of using its military to threaten or invade other countries. More people were focused on China's current economic threat and longer term possible military threat than they were on Russia.

Perhaps 'they' were wrong not to consider Russia to be a potential military threat but that non-Cold War mentality was prevalent until recently.