Do the pictures prove that Russian special forces are engaged in Ukraine?

[Jesus Malverde]

Last edited Wed Apr 23, 2014, 12:07 PM - Edit history (1)

The US state department has claimed Russian special forces are engaged in covert actions in the Ukraine, citing as evidence controversial photographs that purportedly identify known personnel and show bullet-proof jackets and “Russian-designed weapons like AK-47s”.

At first glance, the US appears to be opening itself up to ridicule by referring to the AK-47, a ubiquitous rifle used for decades in conflicts from the Middle East to Africa and Latin America due to its ease of use.

Any US government should be wary of presenting photographs as proof little more than a decade after Colin Powell displayed at the United Nations photographs incorrectly showing Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction.

The Ukrainian pictures do not provide unequivocal proof. The man with the grey beard cited as being in the Ukraine does resemble the one in Georgia in 2008, but only loosely. Close inspection shows the moustache is combed up in one and down in the other, the beards are different lengths, the hair much whiter and there a difference in weight. That could be explained away by the seven-year gap, but it is far from conclusive.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/22/-sp-does-us-evidence-prove-russian-special-forces-are-in-eastern-ukraine

Yellow cake, Yellow cake, Mobile Gas factories, etc. The Neocon playbook is so predictable.

[malaise]

1. Where are the pictures of the 60 plus dead folks in Yemen

There were no Russian drones there

[Adrahil]

2. The Russians killed all their civilians in Chechnya. NT

[Jesus Malverde]

4. And the west didn't say a peep.

the hypocrisy is so thick it's flowing like BP crude on a pristine gulf beach.

[Jesus Malverde]

3. Ouch that stings

Not only are there pictures but video of the indiscriminate massacres. One day Drone operator manning or snowden will have a ping a conscious and the largest robotic killing machine in history will be outed for what it is.

Collateral Damage 2 as it were.

[NuclearDem]

18. Tally up all the drone victims everywhere and horrific as it is

It wouldn't even pale in comparison to what that war criminal Putin did to Grozny.

[sabrina 1]

19. Then add the one million dead Iraqis and the thousands of dead in Afghanistan, did you

forget our invasions of those countries btw, based on LIES, the torture, the untold numbers of innocents, men women AND CHILDREN, maimed, our own dead troops, or have we 'moved forward' from all those war crimes?

Well most of the world has not, as both 'conflicts are ongoing and that Democracy we supposedly spent a decade creating in Iraq continues to take lives and is less about one quarter of its original population.

The US lost its moral authority to go around the world pointing fingers and that is evident each time we try to do it when China, Russia, the ME and Latin America, not to mention African leaders continue to point out our own crimes against humanity.

That of course could have been fixed had we held the War Criminals accountable rather than rewarding them.

Best thing for the US to do is leave that country alone. Let the EU and the Russians, who are directly involved, sort out their issues. We do not belong there. We didn't belong in Iraq, we didn't belong in Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Africa (we're all over Africa too). We cannot rule the world, others have tried, no one has ever succeeded.

We need to start doing what China is quietly doing while the US staggers all over the place with its WMDs and its military, they are building the strongest economy in the world, while we are ruining ours and like the Soviets, and all other Empires, will one day simply run out of money and we will have to deal with the next wanna be Empire.

We could have used all of our power to make this a better world, to keep it by demonstrating that we can handle that kind of power, but sadly that is not what we have done and as a result, have lost the credibility necessary to retain power.

[NuclearDem]

20. Uh huh.

Then add in the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, which, even by the most liberal estimates, killed as many civilians as both our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. If you're going to start listing every Western war crime to excuse Russian war crimes, I'm going to start listing what you're excusing.

More nonsense as usual. Neither Russian nor Western imperialists should have their claws on Ukraine. My pointing out a ridiculous attempt at deflection and equivocation does not mean I support the West's involvement.

And I did not just read what I think I just read about China and their strongest economy in the world. Because if I did, then it's clear you're not aware China builds its economy on the backs of virtual slave labor, environmental disasters, and a brutal occupation. Which of course the West does as well, just so you don't "but but but" at me.

[sabrina 1]

21. Sure, add it in. The Soviet Union is a perfect example, which I believe I mentioned already,

of those who have tried to take over the world, over extend themselves with their wars and invasions and eventually collapse their economies, see the Soviet Union again, and lose everything they stole.

The Soviet Union no longer exists BECAUSE of what I pointed out.

Pssst, the SU collapsed long ago!!! This is 2014!

People actually KNOW this all over the world. The US using old cold war rhetoric only makes us look foolish.

A huge part of the world's population, including our own, have no memory of that past history. They were born into and live in the present.

The old Cold Warriors, most on the Right here, are nostalgic for the 'old days', we know that. But the rest of us are here, right now, asking why WE are going down that same path. When the old cold war warriors try to reproduce history, the world wonders 'what are they talking about'.

What business does the US have in Ukraine, and where is all this money that is being sent there, coming from? We know Bush raided the SS fund for his wars, what is being raided NOW? THAT is what Americans are interested in, not ancient history.

[NuclearDem]

22. Yes, the USSR did collapse.

Which the current President of Russia, the very epitome of a Cold Warrior, laments. A man who, ten years after the collapse, butchered the population of Grozny and has annexed part of the old USSR back into Russia.

But please keep telling how it's just the Western Cold Warriors trying to rekindle that horrible period in history.

[sabrina 1]

23. When you color facts, you lose credibility. Yes, Putin is an old cold warrier, so are many of our

leaders, especially our 'advisers'. See Cheney et al, and all their cold warrior talk etc.

However, Putin did not annex Crimea by force. That is simply a lie and telling lies about things like this that the whole world outside the US, understand, does NOT advance whatever 'cause' we are claiming to be pursuing there. Crimeas were obviously going to reject the Kiev 'interim' coup installed government. Anyone who knew ANYTHING about the history of that region of the world PREDICTED it, not rocket science.

So, here are the FACTS, the coup in Kiev PUSHED Crimea right into Putin's arms, he didn't HAVE to do anything at all except watch. The people there voted overwhelmingly to 'protect themselves' from the 'illegitimate Govt that started out BANNING THEIR LANGUAGE'.

Stupidity and an ignorance of and/or disregard for history is what handed Crimea to Russia. At least be accurate. And the same thing was predicted about every region of Eastern Ukraine that is currently protesting the coup government in Kiev.

No one got to vote for that government, THAT IS A FACT. It WAS and is generally accepted as a coup with some of Ukraine's most unsavory right wing factions at the helm of the coup.

Those are FACTS.

Does Putin want the Ukraine, probably, but he is not stupid, he knew there was no way to get it by force.

And then, the morons in Kiev HANDED him Crimea and it looks like have so frightened the entire Eastern region which is hugely aligned with Russia HISTORICALLY that they might just hand him at least half the country without him raising a finger.

Unbelievable, isn't it? The stupidity is beyond belief. And when our leaders wave admonishing fingers at Russia ignoring the FACTS which the world KNOWS, all we do is look foolish, as has been said.

Don't want Putin to take back at least Eastern Ukraine, then don't make it EASY for him. Don't send in the military to 'crush' the very kind of peaceful protesters we CLAIMED we were supporting in Kiev, who were far from peaceful btw.

Do you see how stupid all this is? EU wants Ukraine under the IMF?? Fine, let them persuade the PEOPLE that this is going to benefit them. Let them HOLD ELECTIONS and let the PEOPLE decide.

But that didn't happen, WHY? Because they knew that they could not win in such an election, because of the FACTS, which are Ukraine is closely tied to Russia, HISTORICALLY and it is likely they would have rejected the IMF in a fair election, therefore a coup was necessary to shore up the 'deal' before the people could speak.

Stupid, foolish, ignorant, bullying, this is why you have to wonder, who is orchestrating this? If I were a CT I would wonder if it wasn't Putin rather than US because we surely didn't want to hand him Eastern Ukraine which is what has happened to the point now where they have to use MILITARY power to FORCE the people to do what they want, and the whole world is watching this debacle and scratching their heads.

Again, what are we doing there? It is none of our business.

[ballyhoo]

28. Excellent post. Do you know this writer

from the NYT? He is just making stuff up about Russia every day. Catherina researches this stuff. I have learned a lot on this board from people like you and her. These US troops in Poland is not a good idea, imo. Wasn't this a little early? Does Poland want this, particularly with no defense to back up the US troops. It is like the US is just making instant calls.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=91366

[sabrina 1]

37. Thanks ballyhoo, no I was not familiar with that particular NYT propagandist I guess he's

the replacement for the totally discredited Judith Miller. Robert Parry however, I am very familiar with, he is a great investigative journalist who has been consistently correct throughout the entire period of the Bush era, not once airc ever doing anything other than exposing the truth. Which is why he is not employed by the Corporate Media.

I think this time though people are not going to be so easily fooled. To even think of a war over there. Who would even think of such a thing, well, I suppose we know, but surely we have enough people in our government now that will stop them before it is too late? I hope so.

[NuclearDem]

30. Removed as an official language is not "banning."

Don't, as you say, "color the facts." It was a stupid idea, but it neither banned the a Russian language or even went into effect.

But that didn't happen, WHY? Because they knew that they could not win in such an election, because of the FACTS, which are Ukraine is closely tied to Russia, HISTORICALLY and it is likely they would have rejected the IMF in a fair election, therefore a coup was necessary to shore up the 'deal' before the people could speak.

Gee, I wonder why Ukraine has such a large Russian minority? It certainly wouldn't be because of the centuries of Russification wherein Tsarist and Soviet Russia actively worked to stamp out the identities of local nationalities in favor of Russian culture and language, butchering traditional musicians, intellectuals, and ethnic minorities, and a famine across the country.

Which is something they did in damn near every country they occupied. So no shit there are pro-Russian enclaves in that part of the world, and that's something Putin is so blatantly exploiting with his totally-not-Russian-soldiers showing up in every one of these regions.

[sabrina 1]

34. Sure, imagine removing English as an 'official' language here eg. Please stop trying to

sugar coat the authoritarianism of the Kiev coup appointed government. They had to END that, it was so obviously an attack on half the population there. Clearly someone got to them and asked 'what the hell are you trying to do' morons? But it as too late, it was a warning of what was to come for a country that up to then, were relatively happy NOT being annexed to Russia. Stupid, authoritarian, certainly no way to win over the general population to THEIR IMF pov.

And now that warning has become a reality with the MILITARY sent in to CRUSH any dissent.

Anyone who wants to stop Putin from taking over Ukraine, first needs to stop whoever is behind these horrendously provoking tactics against people who ONLY WANT A SAY in their own futures.

Do you get that most of the Easter part of Ukraine IS Russian? Do you even comprehend what 'removing Russian as an official language', meant to half the population there?

You wonder why 'Ukraine has such a large population of Russians'? Here's some advice, go read a little history and you might then refrain from doing what we are often accused of doing in the US, making our ignorance of other cultures known to the world, while we do not hesitate to claim WE KNOW WHAT'S BEST for them.

As for historical stamping out of other cultures, look no further than the Native American population right here in the US. Yes, I know, but we do things for other people's benefits, and it's okay to go back centuries for our latest 'enemy' (why do we have so many enemies btw) but please, do not point to our own not so far distant historical crimes.

See the tit for tat game that can be played with history when you don't focus on the facts relevant to today's population. Because unless you yourself have totally clean hands, it's best not to bring up the dirty hands of others.

Russians are closely tied to Ukraine and vice versa, that is a fact. And those who ignored that fact by trying to 'crush' them, made a terrible error and should be removed from any positions of power there. I sure hope OUR TAX DOLLARS are not going into the hands of such stupid and dangerous people. Another fact, if they continue on this outrageously stupid path, Putin will not have to invade Ukraine, they will come running as Crimeans did, to him for help. If that's what you want, then keep on supporting the morons responsible for this.

[NuclearDem]

36. For fuck's sake, you don't know the first fucking thing about Eastern Europe do you?

Well I happen to, in no small way due to my grandfather having been a part of the resistance to the Soviet-era Russification and illegal occupation of his homeland.

Eastern Europe has had any number of its national identities threatened and nearly wiped out by centuries of Tsarist and Soviet imperialism and occupation. There are major Russian minorities in these countries because the occupying power made sure of it to strengthen their hold. That nationalist groups in these countries push back is not a surprise. It's not acceptable, but it's not as if this came out of whole cloth because of evil evil fascists.

The only person whitewashing shit here is your blatant ignorance of the horrific history of Russian imperialism and attempts to annihilate non-Russian identities in their occupied territories.

Russia and the West need to get their fucking hands off of Ukraine. Your condemnation of one and blatant apologies and false equivalences for the other is sickening.

[sabrina 1]

38. So why are you so angry with me? That history you speak of has been repeated around the

world, with the British Empire eg, see Northern Ireland, eg. Why are there so many pro-British people there? For the same reasons you cite re Ukraine/Russia.

I AGREE with you, especially the last sentence which is all I have been saying from the beginning, or trying to:

Russia and the West need to get their fucking hands off of Ukraine. .

All I did was point out to you that what the 'West' is doing is going to drive Eastern Ukraine, as it did Crimea, into the hands of Russia. There is now way to deny that. We are seeing it in action. I have taken NO SIDES, I HAVE asked 'Why are WE there'? A question you have not answered, until that last sentence. Which is, 'we don't belong there and neither does Russia, but WE ARE DRIVING Ukraine into Russia's hands. If you can't have a rational conversation about something, that's not my problem.

The US needs to get out, so does the EU, so does Russia. Hope that clarifies things for you.

[snooper2]

5. Um, VICE has been shooting video for WEEKS proving this

I've been trying to figure out the 8-10 DU'ers who are all over supporting Pooties actions in the Ukraine and think I got it.

They really just are against anything the US Government supports. I guess they think Rus-Si-A is the only big strong dude in the room that can keep the "Big Bad West" in it's place. I'm still split whether it's just funny or sad, probably leaning more to the sad or pathetic.



Russian Colonel Instructs Ukrainian Policemen in Horlivka, Eatern Ukraine

VICE

Reusing this from NuclearDem

1) Is someone doing something despicable?

If NO, stop.
If YES, continue onto 2.

2) Who is doing it?

If THE WEST OR WEST'S ALLIES, continue onto 3.
If NOT THE WEST OR ALLIES, continue onto 4.

3) Who is the opposition?

If SATAN PRINCE OF DARKNESS AND BABY EATER CRUSADE, continue to 9.
If ANYONE ELSE, continue to 5.

4) Is someone in the West criticizing it?

If YES, list every bad act of the West of the last three centuries, imply critics don't care about them, then continue to 6.
If NO, stop.

5) Would you support the action if actors were reversed?

If YES, stop, check conscience and run debug.
If NO, list every bad act of the West of the last three centuries, imply critics don't care about them, then continue to 6.

6) Has someone called you out on the hypocrisy?

If YES, list every bad act of the West of the last three centuries, imply critics don't care about them, apply shill gambit, then continue on to 7.
If NO, list every bad act of the West of the last three centuries, imply critics don't care about them, then continue to 7.

7) Is someone criticizing your choice in media outlet?

If YES, present false dichotomy of Western media versus your source, list every instance of bad reporting and bias from Western media, then continue onto 8.
If NO, stop lying.

8) Is your media source also guilty of bad reporting and bias?

If YES, list every bad act of the West of the last three centuries, imply critics don't care about them, apply shill gambit, imply critics supported Iraq War, DECLARE VICTORY.
If NO, seriously, stop lying.

9) Can baby eating be whitewashed?

If YES, check conscience and stop.
If NO, rethink choice in allies.

[Jesus Malverde]

6. I'm confused with your cut and paste word salad

What does it have to do with OP.

What surprises me are the bootlickers of Cheney and McCains expansionist foreign policy. You are aware that Neuland used to work for cheney, is married to the founder architect of PNAC?

Right???

Need some perspective, travel to Vietnam and see a beautiful amazing country, then realized we lost 50K+ americans and killed a million Vietnamese for nothing. That the guardian would question "yellow cake" level propaganda should be front and center of DU. Instead we have a neocon stenographers...

Duck and cover, a whole generation was traumatized and the memories are still vivid. amirite

[snooper2]

7. You know exactly what it has to do with the OP, and every situation is different

I notice you never comment DIRECTLY about the situation in the Ukraine, you just bring up the old neocon/Vietnam/Through Some Right Wingers Names Out/ meme to lump people who are against pootie with them.


Read the word salad again and it might make sense Simple questions and directions to follow-

[Jesus Malverde]

9. This thread is about the guardian piece, any comments?

I honestly don't give a shit about the Ukraine, like everyone else on this board three months ago. I'm not into the cause du jour.

I am against expanding NATO, wasting money on the military industrial complex, expanding the national security state and living in fear. Maybe I'm bad for not watching TV.



PM me the cut and paste thread and ill read it in context otherwise your extremely long off topic reply is mere thread jacking. Next time post kittens.

[snooper2]

13. I already commented on the guardian piece, it's crap, I posted proof of Russians in East Ukraine

here are your kittens LOL

[Jesus Malverde]

14. Many LOL's...thanks!..nt

[sabrina 1]

25. What are WE doing in a country we have zero interests in?

We keep asking why our tax dollars are going to a part of the world many Americans didn't even know existed or how it presents any kind of threat or interest for them?

Not sure what your post is meant to be saying frankly but the relevant question for AMERICANS is 'why are we there'? A majority oppose our getting involved, although we know that the American people have NO SAY in what our government does. Still, that is a fact, most Americans want our government to focus on this country not just use our tax dollars to invest in other countries, which we haven't helped much either btw, see Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, absolute disasters for the people.

[KeepItReal]

8. Do you think it was indigenous locals that took over Belbek Air Base?

Or that scuttled a ship in the Crimean harbor so Ukrainian ships could not leave?

[Jesus Malverde]

10. The thread is about the photos

Apparently so covered in "yellow cake" they are indefensible.

[Jesus Malverde]

11. Even the press corps is skeptical

It's on twitter...

[Xolodno]

12. F!@K The EU!

Is it proof? No. Are there Russian Special Forces in Eastern Ukraine? More than likely along with the FSB, GRU, etc.

Why are they there? You have half a nation that is pro Russia and looks at IMF austerity as a death mask. Can't blame them.

What's going to happen? One of three things....

Scenario 1: Rogue elements from the "pro west" Ukraine attack across the border...Russia invades.

Scenario 2: The "kamikaze" government in Kiev goes kamikaze and starts reigning in eastern Ukraine with force, triggering a civil war. Either the oligarchs in Ukraine can buy enough weaponry/training/mercenaries/etc. to win or the east wins with the backing of Russia and of course Russian "volunteers".

Scenario 3: Ukraine becomes federalized...most logical and peaceful of the options...and most unlikely.

Who are the players?

Russia: Ukraine to them has always been tied to the empire, losing it is unthinkable. Having it gravitate towards NATO....grounds for war.

EU: They want nothing to do with this and were perfectly happy to have Ukraine firmly in Russia's sphere. Their hand is being forced on this. Hence why Victoria Nunland said F the EU.

USA: What could the USA ever want with Ukraine? Follow the money. Certain interests here want to sell Europe energy...a market Russia has kind of cornered. Get a friendly "west" government in and contracts are awarded to US drillers and frackers. Of course they don't "own" the gas...just the process to get it...just like they do in Iraq.

[Jesus Malverde]

15. I'd add to your USA point, that the USA has lots of natural gas for sale, as does Israel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_gas_field

Interesting analisys thanks!

[HooptieWagon]

16. Controlling the natural gas is just as good as owning it.

Just like oil in Iraq. Not necessary to own the wells. Just see to it that the spigot (figuratively speaking) is turned off and the resource cant get to market. That makes the resource you DO control more valuable.

[Jesus Malverde]

17. I saw some analysis that the war in Iraq was as much about keeping the oil off the market as

controlling it.

agreed. In this case they control putins cash flow and the EU's industrial capabilities.

The other issue in the background is the recent 30 year deal between russia to sell gas to china a massive market. Its' a deal that threatens the petro dollar.

[malaise]

29. Let's ask a simple question

Explain the Monroe Doctrine?

What gives the USA the right to control a zone of influence while demanding that the Russians should sit back and watch the West surround its borders with one aim in mind - stealing Russian resources and any others in the way.

Who has put the USA and its NATO puppets in charge of this planet?

[Xolodno]

41. Monroe Doctrine is a foriegn policy.

..and it applies from North to South America. Designed to eliminate European Colonialism in the "New World". Its worked for the most part...even though Canada's official head of state is still the Queen of England.

As for NATO....a relic of the Cold War that should have been disbanded like the Warsaw Pact.

Nope...Neoconservatives kept it alive and use it to legitimatize over seas adventures. They tried to permanently keep Russia weak via IMF loans, promoting weak leadership via NGO's, etc.

And yes, NATO's push into former Warsaw Pact nations, coupled with "missile defense deployment", abandoned treaties and commitments...

...and being a nation consistently attacked from the west (people forget, they assumed the USA was going to start shooting first during the Cold War)...people here call it paranoia....but, over there, its a justified paranoia.

...plus nearly loosing two former vassal states of the Russian Empire (Georgia and Ukraine) to "color Revolutions".

I don't think anyone should be surprised by "Crazy Putin's" actions. US fruit loop ops over there for some reason still think its the late 90's and early 2000's and can just willy nilly take the country and its resources. Boris Yeltsin is dead along with his version of Russia. Maybe that's the reason McFaul resigned...didn't want any part of the lame brained ideas that were about to go down and see all his hard work about to be undone.

What really irritates me....how many people are going to be hurt or killed due to arrogant idiots believing American Exceptionalism is not having a robust infrastructure, a strong middle class, healthy society, etc. but being able to walk into any country, piss on its government, install whomever they want that will allow them to profit off their resources (because the uber rich here can never have too much money) and then leave their country looking like someone took a dump after eating way too much sugar free candy.

[malaise]

42. Excellent post

Safly by the time those promoting this American Exceptionalism are finished plundering both America and the rest of the planet, all countries will look some someone took a dump after eating way too much sugar free candy.
You should send this to the ignorant hacks all over M$Greedia.

[Catherina]

24. NYT Retracts Russian-Photo Scoop - by Robert Parry

NYT Retracts Russian-Photo Scoop
April 23, 2014

Exclusive: After starting a propaganda stampede – with a lead story about photos of Russian troops purportedly in Ukraine – the New York Times admits the pictures really don’t prove much, and one photo was labeled as snapped in Russia when it was really taken in Ukraine, writes Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry

Two days after the New York Times led its editions with a one-sided article about photos supposedly proving that Russian special forces were behind the popular uprisings in eastern Ukraine, the Times published what you might call a modified, limited retraction.

Buried deep inside the Wednesday editions (page 9 in my paper), the article by Michael R. Gordon and Andrew E. Kramer – two of the three authors from the earlier story – has this curious beginning: “A collection of photographs that Ukraine says shows the presence of Russian forces in the eastern part of the country, and which the United States cited as evidence of Russian involvement, has come under scrutiny.”

...

And, one of the photos featured by the Times in its Monday lead article, purportedly showing some of the armed men in Russia, was actually shot in the Ukrainian town of Slovyansk, according to Maxim Dondyuk, the freelance photographer who took the picture and posted it on his Instagram account.

Here is the tortured way the Times treated that embarrassing lapse in its journalistic standards: “A packet of American briefing materials that was prepared for the Geneva meeting asserts that the photograph was taken in Russia. The same men are also shown in photographs taken in Ukraine.

“Their appearance in both photographs was presented as evidence of Russian involvement in eastern Ukraine. The packet was later provided by American officials to The New York Times, which included that description of the group photograph in an article and caption that was published on Monday. … The dispute over the group photograph cast a cloud over one particularly vivid and highly publicized piece of evidence.”

...

Read more: http://consortiumnews.com/2014/04/23/nyt-retracts-russian-photo-scoop/

[sabrina 1]

27. Scary, first they 'put it out there' like the faux 'anti semitic leaflets', although they were not

really faux, they demonstrated a frightening anti semitic element in the Western part of Ukraine and should be pursued if the West actually were as 'outraged' by anti-semitism as they claimed. But seems they have 'forgotten' that cruel act against Jews now that the world knows it was a 'false flag' operation. Shameful.

This all reminds me of the run up to the Iraq War, even using the NYT (remember Miller et al) to 'catapult the propaganda'.

I'm glad to see that the press from around the world, Britain etc, ARE questioning these ridiculous and childish fakes, photos, leaflets etc and I hope they continue to do so.

Why it is scary, the similarity to Iraq propaganda, we know they intended to go to war in Iraq which is why they were doing it. That makes me wonder, is that the intention here? Are we REALLY planning a war over there? What a disaster that would be for Europe, right on their own territory this time, not in Iraq.

I hope someone with some sense puts a stop to all this before it's too late.

[malaise]

31. +1,000

Bullying the planet on steroids.

[Xolodno]

43. I don't think our current government is that stupid...

...that they will go to war over Ukraine. If we started massing troops in 10's of thousands, brought in military hardware into Poland and Romania....Russia would likely start setting up ICBM's in Cuba and Venezuela.

Shoot, most of the Central and Western EU members would probably drop out of NATO in the face of that kind of stupidity.

No, this is a foreign policy that backfired and the propaganda is for saving face purposes.

Talk up and flood the news of Russian incursions and interference so any info on US meddling doesn't get out. Same system they've used since Iran in the 1950's.

[Jesus Malverde]

44. After the poor performance from the state department public affairs in framing these...

They would just look stupid.

"Its on twitter" was the best she could muster. That the state department press corps pushed the issue shows how weak the propaganda was to start.

[ballyhoo]

26. Yes. It's all so scripted........

ddddd

[Tarheel_Dem]

32. That's not the only thing that's "scripted".

[ballyhoo]

39. Name's Matt Dillon....

[KoKo]

33. Recommend! Parry was Correct...Could have been a couple of guys from

Duck Dynasty.

I posted it yesterday but it didn't get much attention. Maybe the NYT's had retracted it after my post picking up on Parry's questioning the photos, though.

I'm so glad Parry got on this.

[sabrina 1]

35. They DID look like guys from Duck Dynasty. That's what everyone in our house said when

they saw them. Lol!

Surely we can afford better propaganda than this. The first fake Russian soldier turned out to be a local post office worker or something who everyone instantly recognized. Then the leaflets with bad spelling and no signature.

I guess you get what you pay for or something.

Thank god for reporters like Parry we have so few of them left.

[ballyhoo]

40. There appears to be a war going on

on this website regarding Ukraine. Some of the folks are believe the NYT Let's Pretend pieces. And they do not appear to be right-wingers. The other team, the real researchers, which seems to grow larger every day has started to think out of the box. It is very exciting, except I don't know how it affects the election.

[KoKo]

45. I understand...it's what we thought also...........

So True......sadly...but good for US that WE are not taken in by this crap disinfo.

[KoKo]

46. One Wonders if our "Propaganda Machine" Chose "Duck Dynasty Look Alikes" to

appeal to the FAUX NEWSERS.

Who ELSE could have FALLEN FOR THAT STUFF WITH THOSE PHOTO'S.

Shades of "ALUMINUM TUBES and YELLOW CAKE" from Ramp up to IRAQ INVASION!

"THEY' were so Successful on Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan and that Pesky SYRIA ....that NOW they move to RUSSIA to Restart "Cold War?"

Because RUSSIA...Stopped USA Agression at SYRIA?

Who knows these days...but, it's all planned to Script.