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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHoly crap! Long term nursing. Spend down. Sell the house. What am I going to do?
My name is on my house...so is Dad's.
We might have to sell it.
My head is reeling right now. I can't breathe.
I am not sure he qualifies for the VA because his injuries are not 70% combat related.
I feel sick.
I am so scared.
I don't think the ACA covers this.
I don't have words.
I want my Daddy
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Nine
(1,741 posts)
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Now.
malaise
(268,926 posts)and breathe deep. Then think it and talk it through but only with people who know what you're dealing with here.
You will both manage. 
TexasTowelie
(112,108 posts)Even if your father signed the house over to you, there are claw-back provisions within Medicare that could force you to repay his share of the ownership back to Medicare. If you can, try to get the house transferred to your name because I believe that there is a five-year limit on the claw-back period. Hopefully he won't need any long term care within that period that would require you to exhaust what is in his estate.
Good luck.
enough
(13,256 posts)need to start understanding as their parents get older, or as they themselves get older.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)the claw limit is in your state. That means that you need to ask someone how long after he turns his share over to you can he go into nursing care. The problem is that it is often more than 3-5 years.
sammytko
(2,480 posts)There are exceptions. That is considered the persons home and it does not have to be turned over.
My mother is in a home via Medicaid and my brother lives in her house. He was going to buy it and the money used for her care, but we were told it wasn't necessary, since it was already considered his residence.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)states.
Swede Atlanta
(3,596 posts)by gift or other means in the immediate run up to an application for Medicaid, usually for long-term care.
I make sure we monitor the health of my older clients and as we begin to see deterioration we begin doing some Medicaid planning. Keep in mind applying for Medicaid doesn't mean you can't have any assets. There is usually a fairly generous exemption for a home, car, etc. if there is a surviving spouse or even another dependent such as a handicapped adult that is living with the parents.
My own father had sufficient assets that he never required Medicaid but it was a shock to write out a check for nearly $7,000 per month for the last 4 years of his life. He was in Alzheimer's care those last four years which was a terrible experience both for him and for us.
If long term care insurance is available through your employer sign up. It won't cover the cost of long-term care but it can provide enough extra money to allow you to move to a nicer facility. If you are young, say under 40, check out long-term care insurance even if it is not offered through your employer.
It is never too early to begin doing basic planning. I tell my clients when they first begin planning the two or three most important documents are financial powers of attorney (even if all of the assets such as the home, checking account, etc. are in both spouses' names) and an Advance Directive coupled with the medical power of attorney. Someone needs to be able to access, buy and sell assets if you become incapacitated. Someone needs to have legal power to make medical decisions on your behalf if you are unable and you should spell out your wishes regarding life support, etc. (think Terri Schiavo).
Disposition of property though a will and/or a trust is important if you have lots of assets and/or have very specific wishes. If not it is good to have a will but every state has an intestacy statute that governs distribution of your assets if you don't have one. In most cases the distribution rules follow what most people would want. For example, a surviving spouse without minor children will take everything. If there are minor children there is usually a distribution between the surviving spouse and the children. From there it goes out usually to surviving adult children, then to siblings and/or grandparents/grandchildren.
But Medicaid planning is becoming almost essential if you want to protect any assets. You can plan for this but you need to start years before a Medicaid application is necessary.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)there pass a whole farm down the line - sometimes those farms were worth a million dollars. While I understand that keeping a family farm in a farmers family (because the child already knows how to farm) I also think that some of that could have gone to taking care of their parents.
My grandmother owned an old house and the county took it for her care. It was so old that no one wanted to buy it. It set empty until they tore it down - it was located directly across from the county courthouse and an eyesore for years. I suspect the county had to pay to tear it down.
My point is that when the government takes property in return for assistance they should at least make sure it is worth something.
sammytko
(2,480 posts)oneofthe99
(712 posts)I contacted a lawyer and he told me they go back 5 years so I couldn't do a quitclaim to protect his home.
planetc
(7,805 posts)Find out what's the status of your house right now, and what will happen if or when you apply for Medicaid. You're pretty vague on the details of "long tern nursing"--Medicare will cover a little rehab, but if you dad won't be able to function without nursing home care, Medicaid will probably be your only option. Unless the VA can help--call and ask. It can't hurt and it might help.
There are people in your community who know more about how to confront this situation than you know at the moment. Find a few of them (do you have an Office for the Aging?), and talk to them. There's nothing they'd like more than to help you. Facts will help you cope. I don't know what you need to do next, but I know you will meet some fine people as you figure it out.
You still have your Daddy--make sure he knows you love him.
enough
(13,256 posts)at least understand the situation.
a kennedy
(29,647 posts)
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)be discharged home. Even if not, it takes quiet awhile for anything to happen. Depending on how long ago your name was placed on house, you might have a claim on all or a portion.
Best advice is above, see an attorney experienced in Medicaid and elderly law.
Let us know how it goes. Hope your dad gets better.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)It is bad news ... but I think "the family home" is preserved.
W_HAMILTON
(7,862 posts)I obviously don't know the particular details of your situation -- which is why you should meet with a professional to discuss these things -- but I believe there is some sort of stipulation where, if you move in with a parent as a caregiver for two years prior to the parent having to enter a nursing home permanently, you can have the house transferred into your name without any Medicaid penalties or disqualification.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)no joke.
enough
(13,256 posts)They can give you a lot of very specific information about the situation in your locality. Don't be scared. Information is your friend.
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)estate. Some will try to negotiate a 50-50 settlement. Avoid them! Some will offer you a first time free consultation and they can explain how the law is improvised in your state. Do not sign a contract with the first attorney you meet with. Speak with several. I ended up spending a $150.00 on a consult from a female firm in my region and fairly far away. It was the best $150.00 that I ever invested in advice. She basically gave me everything I needed to know, without giving away half of the tiny estate.
There is a 5 year look back period. Period. As soon as the assets are transferred, the lookback begins. There are penalty calculators that are applied for earlier than 5 year entrance to a nursing facility.
Also, if you have Power of Attorney in your Dad's care, use it! Get all of his assets in your name ASAP!.
Yea, the trustfunders get to walk away with millions in inheritance, but damn if the middle class and poor are left with a pot to piss in.
PM me if you want further info.
Best Wishes, and I'm SO sorry you have to go through this unbelievable stress. You'll get through it though.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)And I fit the criterion listed here:
Special circumstances: Three circumstances permit someone to transfer the home to a family member without either a Medicaid delayed-coverage penalty or a Medicaid lien on the property. A home may be transferred, without penalty or lien, to:
The person's adult child, if: (1) the child has lived in the house for at least two years prior to the parent moving into the nursing home; (2) during that time the child cared for the parent; and (3) that care allowed the parent to remain at home for that time instead of entering a nursing home.
More:
http://www.caring.com/questions/transfer-of-property-prior-to-entering-nursing-home
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)Just be patient in finding a Good attorney. They are out there as rare specimens 
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)who would be willing to give you an initial, low-cost consultation.
Bring a list of questions, and know the approximate value of the assets you are talking about.
Fla Dem
(23,650 posts)Or if you know someone who has gone through a similar situation of having to place a parent on Medicaid. Avoid shysters.
stage left
(2,961 posts)I'm so sorry. It's rough going through something like this. My mother, widow of a World War II vet, was eligible to receive what they call Aid and Attendance from the VA up until her death in March. It helped pay for the assisted living home care she received in her last five years. I feel that your dad probably would be eligible as well. There's a bit of paper work but they're usually nice at the VA and will help you through it. 
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)I am pretty sure I can't transfer him to the VA rehab center here. I would be delighted if I could.
stage left
(2,961 posts)But Aid and Attendance is not about treatment in a VA facility, though that possibility would be worth checking out. I know you're feeling overwhelmed right now. Here's a link to Aid and Attendance. http://benefits.va.gov/pension/aid_attendance_housebound.asp
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)My mother was DX'd with an aggressive form of cancer -- told she'd be gone in 6 mos. and that I had to find a place for her to go!
I had no money for this at all.
Mother gave me Power of Attorney, I found a 24-hr. a day care facility for her and paid the bill.
She died after 3 mos.
It was a very sad time in my life and no, I received no help from anyone.
Mother was a retired Federal employee (a clerk) and had limited insurance -- certainly no long-term care and she was not eligible for Medicaid. When it was all over, they did a "MediCal" check to see if she'd ever been on MediCal or Medicaid and if she had been, they would have collected the payouts I was told. Luckily, this was not an issue being she passed away before all funds were exhausted.
I'd get advice from a few different people. Start with your local area agency on aging and see if they can direct you to the proper people/places.
I wish you the best of luck!
P.S. On edit:
I have a sister-in-law that has been in a nursing home for a few years now. She gave her son Power of Attorney and the house she lived in is being used to pay the bill on the nursing home which is .... $9,000.00/month! The house was worth about $700,000.00 at the time she ended up going into the nursing home and I really hope she doesn't outlive that money because she'll likely be moved to a crummy nursing home that takes Medicaid. As for the son/Power of Attorney thing, she would have been better off to have taken out a reverse mortgage in her case. You might check into this option as well.
sammytko
(2,480 posts)Did he ask?
No Vested Interest
(5,166 posts)(usually religious-affiliated) will not kick her out, but will keep the patient.
However, a for-profit facility often does not require a big amount of money upfront, as they often operate on a monthly fee basis.
Many non-profits, especially the better ones, do require a large deposit, or upfront money.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)Said person is a religious one and she is in a home that is of her religious beliefs. However, once the till runs dry, they'll move her again to a cheaper place. 
It is too bad really as she is actually improving a lot as of recent and actually, IMO, she has no real business being there.
Her main problem is one that it seems every one in this family has (my husband included) and it is called wet macular degeneration.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)there aren't a lot of easy answers.
it's really too bad it's been designed like this.
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)Just breathe...
sammytko
(2,480 posts)They were the ones that got us started on the Medicaid process for my mother.
The people at the county department of aging were very helpful also. In Texas it is called DADS -Department of aging and disability services.
Good luck.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Dad faces a penalty he should not face. In April of 2010, he fell off a crane at work, and broke his shoulder, hit his head, etc.
While out on worker's comp, the company sold to another company, who promptly went out of business. Maryland law says that all employers must maintain health coverage for worker's out on worker's comp. They did not do this.
My father faces a penalty (and I have to pray they keep him until June 10th) that he should not face because a company went belly up.
I don't even have the appeals papers to appeal it yet, but I guess I should try.
Still rattled, but not as frantic.
No Vested Interest
(5,166 posts)the first 30 days (unless the number has been changed very recently) are paid for through Medicare.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)I have to try and keep him where he is until June 10th or 11th to not incur HUGE fees.
No Vested Interest
(5,166 posts)in place until you have the necessary time and information to move ahead.
My spouse was in nursing care for six years until death four yrs ago.
I've frequently said that I learned more about the medical world than I ever wanted to know through the experience.
You will find your way through it, but it is a learning process, if medical concerns have not been your world.
You'll meet some wonderful, helpful, selfless people along the way, and every once in a while a stinker, and, unfortunately, some who are either ignorant or overwhelmed by their jobs, though well-intended.
You need to let the caregivers know that you are always watching out for the best interests of your Dad, and will not tolerate any harm done to him.
Reach out to others for assistance whenever it can help or make things easier for you.
Blessings.
Rex
(65,616 posts)It doesn't have anything to do with combat related injuries. If he had an honorable discharge from the military, he qualifies for anything VA can offer and they do offer a lot. Get a hold of your nearest VA hospital and talk to them to see what can be done.
I was my grandfathers primary caregiver for about 10 years, he would have never made it in the local 'rest home'. He barely survived WWII, malaria and the Bataan Death March. I was going to be DAMMED first if I let anyone let his quality of life degrade under their neglect in a 'rest home'. VA helped a lot even up until the final weeks of his life. He died in hospice, but got to live at home for a decade with me taking care of him and a primary care provider toward the end of his life. I wish it could have been longer.
You don't know what you lost, until it is gone...
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)70% combat related for in house rehab.
Rex
(65,616 posts)You might try your county VA rep. Whatever happens, I hope you get the care you need.
zabet
(6,793 posts)My Dad had a heart attack in january. He is 81. He did not want to lose the home he paid for any time in the future so we (the kids) have had it all.....home, savings, stocks, etc........set up into a trust. This trust is to provide for Dad until he dies and then be dissolved and split among the surviving heirs. Dad also retains lifetime rights to the home. It took 4 months of research and legal advice before we found our path through the loop-holes. Good luck to you and your Dad on this.....I hope you find a resolution that works. Persist and don't give up, it took us a while but we got there, you will too.
politicat
(9,808 posts)It's a long process to apply, and it can be daunting, but start looking into it, even if his condition isn't service-related. (My grandmother is a WWII vet's widow, and qualifies. She never served herself.)
Start here: http://www.veteranaid.org. I warn you, you will need quite a number of documents, it can take more than a year to be approved, and it's an involved process. It's definitely a don't give up process.
It's okay to be scared and overwhelmed. This is a tough situation, but there is help available. Ask the hospital or hospice for an elder-care social worker. Put a notepad in your purse or pocket and write every question that comes into your head down so that you can ask. There's no such thing as a stupid question in this.
If your father has a living will or advanced directive, use that as your guideline -- your father made that decision, so it's your responsibility to him to follow that. It's okay to ask his medical professionals if hospice is appropriate. There are both residential and in-home hospice, and often, people are more comfortable and secure under hospice care.
Since your name is also on your house and you live there, no, you should not have to sell it. Second, skilled nursing facilities are well aware that most people who have to be there are not coming in with suitcases full of cash. They will work with you.
Given that he's over 65, he's on Medicare. That gives him 120 days of skilled nursing rehab coverage, which gives you all time to get this figured out. Yes, it's going to mean long days and difficult choices, but you have time and strength and resources.
You're going to be okay. Don't panic, or if you need to, panic and get it over with for today. It's okay to feel whatever you need to feel. Feel it, embrace it and take the next step.
I'm right here with you -- am in the same situation, just a few miles down the road. It is okay. You will make it through.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)have meant to me.