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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDROP EVERYTHING & TAKE ACTION!: Time to Launch Largest Protest the FCC Has Ever Seen
Published on Friday, April 25, 2014 by Common Dreams
'Drop Everything and Take Action': Activists Issue Clarion Call to Save the Internet
As a countdown begins, time to show "FCC largest protest it's every seen" say defenders of net neutrality
INSTRUCTIONS FOR ACTIVISM (INCLUDING CALLING TOM WHEELER, CONGRESS and OTHER ACTIONS AT:
http://act.freepress.net/call/internet_wheeler_nn/ ALSO AT BOTTOM OF THIS POST..
- Jon Queally, staff writer
If you cherish the open internet, say net neutrality defenders, now is the time to prove it. (Credit: Free Press / CD)There's no time like the present to save the future of the internet.
That's the message from the nation's largest and most active organizations focused on the issue of online freedom and net neutrality.
Following this week's news that FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler is preparing a push to pass new rules that would allow the nation's internet providers to create a two-tiered, two-speed internet by allowing corporations to pay for privileged access to broadband "fast lanes," the group's opposed to the move are warning the American people that if they don't act quickly and aggressively, the open internet they know and love could be destroyed forever.
"It's ." Josh Levy, Free Press
In his organization's call to arms on Thursday, executive director of Free Press Craig Aaron, asked people to consider what they would do if they learned the internet "they knew and love" had only three weeks to live: "Would you spend your time binging on listicles or the final season of Breaking Bad?" or "Would you take to the streets and raise hell?"
And in a post on Friday, the group's campaign director Josh Levy announced: "It's time to launch the largest protest the FCC has ever seen." He continued:
Under [the new FCC] rules, telecom giants like AT&T, Comcast and Verizon would be able to pick winners and losers online and discriminate against online content and applications. And the FCC has the nerve to call this "Net Neutrality."
You might wonder why the FCC would move forward with such an ill-advised plan. But such is the political calculus of Washington, where our policymakers tie themselves in knots to soothe corporate interests while obscuring their plans with technical jargon, hoping the public will be too confused to notice.
Well, we noticed. And were not happy.
In anticipation that the lovers and defenders of the internet will, in fact, choose to fight rather than roll over, Free Press and some its allies are now planning a day of direct action for May 15th where they plan to go beyond petition drives and phones calls by "rising up" against the FCC proposal with street protests in Washington, DC.
In addition to Free Press, groups like Demand Progress, Common Cause, RootsAction, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the ACLU, Public Knowledge, and others have swung into action mode to fight what they fear will be the death of "net neutrality"the key principle that has guided the web since its inception and stipulates that all online content should receive equal treatment free of corporate or government interference.
"Lets organize like mad to save the internet, as if democracy and press freedom both depend on it ... because they do." Jeff Cohen, RootsAction
As summarized by journalist and Free Press co-founder John Nichols at The Nation, the urgency of the groups' collective message is that net neutrality can be saved, but "only if citizens raise an outcry."
The activated groups and their members are doubly outraged that the Obama administration has strayed so far from early promises to protect the open internet. Now, despite the continued disappointments, they are vowing to highlight the profound and terrible consequences that could follow if net neutrality is destroyed.
"People are right to be outraged that Obamas FCC is moving to extinguish an open internet," said RootsAction.org co-founder Jeff Cohen, who cited promises made in 2008 by then-candidate Obama to defend the ideals and policies of an open internet. "We must not allow net neutrality to be just another broken promise. Lets organize like mad to save the internet, as if democracy and press freedom both depend on it ... because they do."
RootsAction.org has teamed up with Demand Progress to encourage their members to lobby both the FCC and members of Congress.
"In order to get the FCC to save net neutrality, we need to bring a lot of public and political pressure to bear right away," said Demand Progress executive director David Segal. But in order to make their voices heard and claim a victory, he acknowledged, "We'll need to enlist the help of hundreds of thousands of Americans over the next couple of weeks."
As for the new FCC rules proposed by Wheeler, the Electronic Frontier Foundation's April Glaser and Corynne Mcsherry warn the American public that the "devil will be in the details." They write:
While all we have now is a statement that a proposal for what the proposed rules might look like is being circulated in private within the FCC, the public should be poised to act. In an FCC rulemaking process, the commission issues whats called a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM). After the NPRM is issued, the public is invited to comment to the FCC about how their proposal will affect the interest of the public.
The FCC is required by law to respond to public comments, so its extremely important that we let the FCC know that rules that let ISPs pick and choose how certain companies reach consumers will not be tolerated.
"The next three weeks are absolutely crucial to building the public pressure it will take to get the FCC to scrap this wreck and do what it should have done in the first place." Craig Aaron, Free Press
According to Craig Aaron, that leaves approximately three weeks to save the internet by killing Wheeler's proposal and again trying to force the FCC to do what expertsnot to mention the federal courtshave said is the best solution: reclassify broadband as a public utility.
"Now is the time for action," said Aaron. "The next three weeks are absolutely crucial to building the public pressure it will take to get the FCC to scrap this wreck and do what it should have done in the first place."
As he explains, a federal court decision earlier this year "told the FCC that if it wishes to ensure Internet users can send and receive information free from ISP interference, then the agency must classify ISPs as telecom carriers under Title II of the Communications Act."
Though reclassifying broadband wont be easy, admits Aaronnoting the army of lobbyists which powers the telecom industry's political operation the decision to do so would put the FCC on much stronger legal footing. Moreover, he says: "Its also the right thing to do really, the only thing to do to protect the public and safeguard the Internets future.
In the end, he urged, whatever it is people are willing to do to protect net neutrality and the future integrity of the free and open internet, they should "drop everything and do it right now.""
_____________________________________
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License.
What Can I Do?
Net Neutrality is on life support. To save it we need to turn up the heat on the Federal Communications Commission and Chairman Tom Wheeler. We must stop the FCC from passing rules that would break the Internet and allow discrimination online. The agency needs to reclassify broadband Internet access as a telecommunications service, which would pave the way to long-lasting Net Neutrality rules.
Heres what you can do to help.
http://act.freepress.net/call/internet_wheeler_nn/
Stop the FCC from Breaking the Internet
Send a Message to the FCC
Sign this petition to Chairman Wheeler and then share it with everyone you know.[/]b
PETITION AT:
http://act.freepress.net/call/internet_wheeler_nn/
Pick Up the Phone
Call FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler
The Federal Communications Commission is proposing rules that would kill rather than protect Net Neutrality and allow rampant discrimination online.
Under these rules, telecom giants like AT&T, Comcast and Verizon would be able to pick winners and losers online and discriminate against online content and applications. And no one could do anything about it.
We must stop the FCC from moving forward with these rules, which would give the green light to ISPs eager to crush Net Neutrality.
Pick up the phone. Call FCC Chairman Wheeler and demand REAL Net Neutrality.
2. Make the call.
FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler: 1-202-418-1000
Here's a sample script for you to use:
I'm calling to urge Chairman Wheeler to scrap the FCC's plan to allow Internet service providers to charge for preferential treatment.
These rules would destroy Net Neutrality. I urge the chairman to throw them out and instead reclassify broadband as a telecommunications service. This is the only way to restore real Net Neutrality.
3. Tell us how it went.
Who did you call?
FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler: 1-202-418-1000
How did the call go?
Join the Day of Action on May 15
Sign Up to Take Action on May 15
The Internet will rise up online and take to the streets. Sign up to learn more.
http://act.freepress.net/call/internet_wheeler_nn/
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)pa28
(6,145 posts)Thanks for the call to action.
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)1monster
(11,012 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)information shows registered in Panama.
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msongs
(67,347 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)I can understand folks being concerned. I've donated to them for years....and if you are concerned probably calling Wheeler's Office or your Reps are the way to go.
The Petition asks for Name and E-Mail Address..(didn't see it ask for your home address) so it's less info than some other petitions I've seen.
But, agree ...that those with privacy concerns should read their full statement and judge for themselves. Probably safer than FACEBOOK ....it depends on one's comfort level.
Thanks for Asking.
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ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)third-party. I just wonder about these things when it is hard to find out who is behind an issue/effort.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)looks a little more secure...but, they do ask for more info. They are a good group and some might feel more comfortable with them.
Links to Petition and their Privacy Policy if anyone is interested. I've donated to them for years, also.
=======
Common Cause is a nonpartisan, grassroots organization dedicated to restoring the core values of American democracy, reinventing an open, honest and accountable government that serves the public interest, and empowering ordinary people to make their voices heard in the political process.
- See more at: http://www.commoncause.org/site/pp.asp?c=dkLNK1MQIwG&b=4773657#sthash.RTwklG5I.dpuf
"COMMON CAUSE" has their OWN PETITION
Common Cause is a nonpartisan, grassroots organization dedicated to restoring the core values of American democracy, reinventing an open, honest and accountable government that serves the public interest, and empowering ordinary people to make their voices heard in the political process.
Net Neutrality Needs Our Protection
In the last fifteen years we have seen the media change in a way that has created an entirely new dynamic. The growth of the Internet has created a new medium that allows for truly democratic participation in our democracy. Indeed, the Internet has made the First Amendment of the Constitution guaranteeing Freedom of Speech a living document for Americans in a way that nothing has before.
Common Cause firmly believes in net neutrality -- the principle that Internet users should be able to access any web content they want, post their own content, and use any applications they choose, without restrictions or limitations imposed by their Internet service providers (ISPs).
PRESS RELEASE FROM "COMMON CAUSE:
FCC's Reported Capitulation around Open Internet Protections is a Major Step Backward
After months of insisting that he would protect free speech and innovation online by guaranteeing Open Internet protections, Federal Communications Commissioner Chairman Tom Wheeler appears ready to break his word, Common Cause said today.
Reports this morning in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and other news outlets indicate that Wheeler is circulating draft Open Internet rules that would preserve net neutrality in name only. The proposed rules would allow providers like Verizon to hit web firms with larger fees in return for delivering their content faster or more smoothly.
"If true, this proposal is a huge step backwards and just must be stopped, said Michael Copps, a former FCC commissioner who now serves as a special adviser to Common Causes Media and Democracy Reform Initiative. If the Commission subverts the Open Internet by creating a fast lane for the 1 percent and slow lanes for the 99 percent, it would be an insult to both citizens and to the promise of the Net."
Firms like Netflix and HBO Go will surely pass any increased costs to consumers, Copps said. Other content providers, unwilling or unable to pay higher fees, risk seeing traffic on their sites dry up as consumers frustrated by slow downloads turn to their competitors.
The new rules also have implications for democracy, he added. A true Open Internet gives us an electronic public square, where everyone has an equal chance to be heard. Once broadband companies can impose tolls and put some traffic in fast lanes while slowing down other messages, candidates and groups that can afford to pay the tolls will gain an enormous advantage.
-----------
Net Neutrality Needs Our Protection
In the last fifteen years we have seen the media change in a way that has created an entirely new dynamic. The growth of the Internet has created a new medium that allows for truly democratic participation in our democracy. Indeed, the Internet has made the First Amendment of the Constitution guaranteeing Freedom of Speech a living document for Americans in a way that nothing has before.
Common Cause firmly believes in net neutrality -- the principle that Internet users should be able to access any web content they want, post their own content, and use any applications they choose, without restrictions or limitations imposed by their Internet service providers (ISPs).
Net neutrality is the reason this democratic medium has grown exponentially, fueled innovation and altered how we communicate. We must make certain that for-profit interests do not destroy the democratic culture of the web.
There are various ways in which the Internet has enhanced our democracy. Organizations and politicians have been benefiting from the new ability to react instantly to political opportunities and call for their supporters to take action in real time as well as much more cost-effectively. They have also found that they can promote themselves more effectively by maintaining a constant presence online as well as utilizing web 2.0 strategies such as social networking and interactive blogs. In addition, the Internet has allowed anyone with a message to reach out to millions of potential donors to support their efforts. Large numbers of small donors have allowed new political organizations to thrive and candidates that have more connection with the grassroots than wealthy special interests to run viable campaigns.
But while political candidates and organizations have benefited, the biggest impact of the Internet has been on the average citizen. Voters can research candidates and issues more in-depth than ever before. They can find out much more about what organizations are in sync with their views and get involved with them if they choose. And Internet users can air their views so much more effectively than ever before, whether by having or participating in a blog, speaking out on social networking tools like Facebook or MySpace, emailing friends, relatives and acquaintances, or participating in online discussions on bulletin board sites. As our citizens participate more and more online, they enhance the public discourse about the future of our country and local communities. Even when people disagree with each other, the fact that they are not leaving the discussion up to just the entrenched interests already in power is healthy for democracy.
Telephone and cable companies that provide Internet access to millions of Americans would like to get rid of Net Neutrality. They spend millions of dollars lobbying Congress for the right to create a two-tier Internet, where their own content and services (and those of businesses that pay their fees) would travel quickly and efficiently in the fast lane, while all other websites and services would be relegated to the slow lane.
The FCC let effective Net Neutrality protections expire in August 2006 as the result of a technical change in the way they address Internet governance. But it is important to understand that Net Neutrality has always been a guiding principle of the Internet it is the reason that the Internet has been able to grow exponentially, fuel innovation, and alter how we communicate.
Today there is no rule or regulation to prevent phone and cable companies from doing what they have said they want to do: charge content providers for the right to be on their Internet pipes, and make special deals with some companies to ensure their sites and services work faster and are easier to find by Internet users. Thats why its so critical that Congress act now to protect freedom on the Internet.
Without Net Neutrality, Internet service providers would be free to block or impede any online content or services, for any reason. They could also charge websites or applications for priority service, practically assuring that any site that couldnt or wouldnt pay their fees would no longer work as well or be as easy to find. That could spell the end of innovation, as small businesses, entrepreneurs, local governments, nonprofits and others would be locked out of a system controlled by the big telephone and cable companies. If network providers are allowed to control the flow of information, the open and freewheeling nature of the Internet could be lost.
Even worse, well lose the Internet as our town square where we talk to one another, exchange views, find information from many diverse sources of news and opinion, blog, contact candidates, and engage in our democracy. We will be left with an Internet that is mostly about selling things and is no longer about citizen engagement.
We are already seeing the impact of the loss of Net Neutrality. Verizon refused to allow political text messages from NARAL to go to its customers, even though those customers had signed up to receive the messages. Comcast was caught denying and degrading legal file sharing communications on its network. And the future looks even worse: AT&T has announced to potential investors that it is ready to filter the internet.
We're ready - with your help - to fight the telcom giants in the halls of Congress, at state houses around the country and at the FCC. We need to push back hard at the telecom lobbyists who want to write Internet freedom out of the law.
- See more at: http://www.commoncause.org/site/pp.asp?c=dkLNK1MQIwG&b=4773657#sthash.RTwklG5I.dpuf
READ THIS IF YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT SIGNING THE PETITION:
ABOUT US: "COMMON CAUSE" PRIVACY POLICY:
http://www.commoncause.org/site/pp.asp?c=dkLNK1MQIwG&b=4860215
2banon
(7,321 posts)I've attended and participated in two of their conferences they hold around the country for the past several years. The last one I attended was in St Louis Mo. several years ago, Bush was still in office, FCC was headed by Republican appointees, although it's "evenly" split between two parties, the chair is appointed by the sitting president.
That year Naomi Kline was one of the keynote speakers (I think she was working on Shock Doctrine if memory serves) Bernie Sanders was another among a myriad of journalists, internet news hosts, and largely media activists..
The annual conferences are an interesting and important event.. great for networking with other media and journalist activists. I forgot to mention that Democratic FCC members were in attendance and gave talks as well. Media Activist Robert McChesney and journalist Jon Nichols are the original organizers..
It's been around for well over a decade, and they're fabulous people.
www.freepress.net
zeemike
(18,998 posts)"this mailbox is full"
That is how it went when I called...but I will keep at it...and I signed the petition.
K&R.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)to messages ...it might be something that needs to be addressed with "FCC's Voice Mail is Full & Dropbox Full...NOT Allowing Phoners (Citizen's) Communicating their Views to get through. And,if their "e-mail" website gets flooded then Activists need to get on it calling out for the FCC to get More Phone Lines in for Callers and to Open Up their Website to the overwhelming flood of people trying to Voice their Opinions.
And maybe the President's Website could get Respons asking for extra Resources for the FCC Website to and Phone Lines to ramp up to handle the Incoming Communications from people who want to voice their Opinions on the FCC VOTE?
Jasana
(490 posts)We need a huge action like when SOPA was put down.
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)will call, hope it helps.
calimary
(81,097 posts)a kennedy
(29,612 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)BelgianMadCow
(5,379 posts)thanks, KoKo
Armstead
(47,803 posts)951-Riverside
(7,234 posts)If thousands or even millions of people dropped Comcrap, Verizon or AT&T in a week it would send stocks tumbling and it would be impossible for them to send out collection notices.
I plan to do this if the FCC goes through with it anyway.
I already pay for access to the internet, I'll be damned if I let them get away with double dipping.
mwooldri
(10,299 posts)Thousands of people have the choice of Comcast, Time Warner Cable (soon to be Comcast), AT&T or Verizon and they don't have any other choice. I have one choice - Time Warner Cable or nothing.
If enough people get on the FCC's back about this, then I'm certain this ruling will not be upheld.
The FCC needs to reclassify the Internet as a public utility now. When they classified them as a communications service, for most people it was Internet access on phone lines. Today, it's generally the other way around - people have dry DSL (Internet service and no traditional phone service) and use VoIP for their phone service. Or have cable Internet and nothing else (like me). Even the phone companies are turning your traditional phone service into one that operates over the top of the Internet.
I'd love to kick out the big telcos and go to a local provider... when one comes along that is. I like the idea of DIY broadband - where a community gets together and decides to raise their own funds and build out their own fibre network.
pscot
(21,024 posts)so people could call or visit him at home to express their displeasure.
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)louslobbs
(3,229 posts)Lou
bvar22
(39,909 posts)We CAN make a difference.
We need to raise a unified voice AGAINST the Keystone Pipeline
and the TPP too.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)sellitman
(11,605 posts)Making the call...
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)defacto7
(13,485 posts)This is incredibly important in many, many ways. It really is a threat to what's left of America's democracy and a huge step toward the oligarchy that stands over us now. If we are going to take back The United States of America and restore it to a democracy of, by and for the people... we must not allow the beginning of the Internet takeover and it is just the beginning. The Internet contains the final voice of reason and truth for the people of the world. It must NOT loose it's freedom or it will cost us ours.
There is NO hyperbole here!
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Chairman Tom Wheeler: Tom.Wheeler@fcc.gov
Commissioner Mignon Clyburn: Mignon.Clyburn@fcc.gov
Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel: Jessica.Rosenworcel@fcc.gov
Commissioner Ajit Pai: Ajit.Pai@fcc.gov
Commissioner Michael ORielly: Mike.O'Rielly@fcc.gov
dotymed
(5,610 posts)President Obama picks and instructs the FCC board. The same with every President and they use the FCC as a powerful tool (propaganda is immensely valuable to them).
FDR used the FCC to implement the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE, IMO this rule was what insured Americans were the best informed citizens in the world.
Of course Reagan had his FCC appointees stop enforcing this very important, anti-propaganda, pro- all viewpoints legislation.
Then, President Obama had his appointees remove all of the language connected to the Fairness Doctrine...unbelievable for a Democrat buy not a democrat, I guess.
Now, after his PROMISE (as a candidate of course) to protect Net Neutrality, he has instructed HIS FCC to end Net Neutrality
and sell out to (like the entire American Government has) corporate interests.
Yes, I will call Obamas FCC chairman and demand net neutrality be protected, but I will also call the real power behind the FCC,
President Obama. I have watched the democratic party leave me and what I believed were Democratic values for the
sake of corporate money. This shit would really be hard to pass under a rethuglican president. I find myself disappointed and unrepresented (like the vast majority of average Americans) when some of the most harmful legislation is passed under a
democratic President. ie ..Clinton and NAFTA.
That is why I have decided (know) that until we UNITE as Americans who are sick of corporate/elite rule (it doesn't matter what "party" you are in) and take to the streets and cause Democratic change. We will remain serfs with no say-so (that counts)
and no Democracy.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)And people should remind them all that it is an election year and this is one of the most important issues to voters, just in case they forgot about us as the do their jobs for Corporate America.
GTurck
(826 posts)would be post cards and letters to internet providers telling them that you plan to end your internet service. Even a million would bring pause but 20 or 20 million panic. It can be done.
h2ebits
(640 posts)Any means possible to reject what is happening is a worthwhile task. And that goes for all topics that we are fighting for and against. I think that we are so deep into the electronics world that we're forgetting how it used to be. Bombard them from every angle.
Teamster Jeff
(1,598 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)for those who were away for weekend...
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)Saw this too...
Alexis Ohanian Wants To Put A Pro-Net Neutrality Billboard Right In The FCCs Backyard
Recent news that the FCC may consider changes to net neutrality that would allow some content providers to pay ISPs for faster delivery speeds to consumers has many worried about the future impartiality of the Internet.
Alexis Ohanian, known for his work at Reddit and HipMunk, once placed protest advertisements and hired a billboard during the SOPA and PIPA battles. Hes back, this time looking to raise $20,000 via CrowdTilt to place a billboard in the FCCs backyard, protesting the potential changes to net neutrality rules.
The project has thus far raised under $3,000.
Just $3000? Really. Is it a bad idea, not an exciting enough idea, or is there just not enough interest? The amount of pressure it would take to classify these greedy bastards as common carriers would be tremendous, but it's the only answer. Seems like a petition/billboard is unlikely to show enough strength to demand change.
Gonna have to disrupt this process to change it.
I wonder how many people are really excited about this? Who lobbies for those that are going to get screwed in this? They want to put a billboard in the FCC's face (I think it would be better with mugshots of everyone with a brief bio of their industry connections and why these lawyers want to control what you can choose from, maybe equate them with some genocidal maniac for shits and giggles, but that's just for effect).
Just idle thoughts...
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)great OP a few days ago explaining the rules and laws regarding this and it seems they can be declared to be common carriers. But that require politicians who were working for us rather than them. Since the head of the FCC is a former Cable Lobbyist, that might be why it has not been done.
They have no problem taking money away from the people, or changing the law, retroactively at that, to protect Bush/Cheney from being prosecuted for violating the law re spying on the American people. No problem passing any law that benefits their sponsors. Eg, see how quickly they were able to vote for money for Ukraine??? While getting money to the American people, the unemployed eg, just can't seem to get done.
Iow, it's not that they CAN'T do it, it's because their job is to provide opportunities for profit making for those who pay to get them elected.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)control are obviously in the pockets of the industry lobbyists.
To say wait for another election is just giving up (very likely one the messages paid for by the opposition, and carried by "friends" , and there is no guarantee that it would change.
Pressure could be brought on the commission,. Might be more effective to take on the industry, but that would requite a huge disorganizing and organizing effort, it seems.
The real trick would be getting enough of our ~316 million people to realize they are losing something that they had, it is being taken by greedy people, and they have no friend in any political position that could change it who gives a flying rats ass about the many ways it will cost them and us.
There is always an offense., I think. But without it, certain loss.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)offense is always better than being in the defensive position. It would take a lot of organizing to get enough people to participate to the point where it scares them. For that we would need a free press which reports honestly and factually about these issues. But they bought the media too. Clever of them, they anticipated everything. Money is speech, buy up the media, was there ANYTHING they forgot for their plans to take over everything?
Doremus
(7,261 posts)We need more people to call.
Every person reading this needs to tell 5 more people, they need to tell 5 people, and so on. Only with a grassroots upswell will these out-of-control plutocrats be deterred.