Compulsory Voting - How much time in prison should people get for "Failure To Vote"

[FrodosPet]

The vast majority of us think voting is the right thing to do. It's not just a right, but a moral responsibility. And when others fail to fulfill this obligation, we get frustrated. Particularly if these voters are likely to help our candidates.

In another thread, there was a discussion of bringing compulsory voting to America. Being a detail freak, my first thought is, "What would it take to compel a 90%+ voter turnout, and how big and powerful and invasive will the enforcement system have to be to make it work?"

So let's figure it out. What should the penalty for not voting be? And how far should the enforcement of those penalties go?

Should it be a $26 fine, like Australia, or much bigger so it will sting enough to compel action? Loss of current or benefits? Loss of professional license? Disfranchisement? Revocation of driving privileges?

Or do we really want to push the envelope to get 98%? I don't see being able to do that short of throwing people in jail.

So whaddaya think, folks? Is it worth helping Big Brother get even bigger in a vain attempt to bring him back down to size?

[randys1]

1. Tie tax refunds to voting

Most of the people who dont vote and need to vote get tax refunds.

Maybe not most but maybe half or so, especially younger folks.

Just tell em NO VOTE no refund!

[temporary311]

3. Something like this would be good.

Except maybe not withholding the whole thing. I think a $50-$100 dollar fine would be good. But, a fine for not voting needs to be accompanied by an expansion of voting days. It should be a whole week, not just one day (not counting early voting.) In addition, early voting and voting by mail/absentee should be expanded, too.

[randys1]

5. Good idea but Republican politicians hate voting and democracy

so we would have to remove all republican politicians from holding public office in that they are terrorists doing more harm than Al Qaeda could ever hope to

[SheilaT]

2. A simple and not too huge fine should be sufficient.

Something hugely punitive, like jail time or no tax refund would probably fail some sort of constitutional test.

I happen to know a couple of college professors who do not vote because the don't want to register for fear they'd have to do jury duty. Which is also why jury duty rolls should not be the same as voter registration rolls.

added on edit: If tax refunds were withheld, maybe more people would stop giving the government huge interest free loans every year.

[yeoman6987]

35. Loss of anything federal and state for a year until the next vote

I guarantee the election following, EVERYONE will be voting. Very drastic but it would only last one year because nobody would want to go another year without federal or state anything.

[Throd]

4. Mandatory voting is a stupid idea.

[Boreal]

13. Thank you

What a totally idiotic and authoritarian idea. Sounds like something the Nazis would have done.


Don't like the "choices" Sick of voting for the lesser of two evils? Too bad! You either vote or we'll punish you. Yeah, that ought to win people over.

[WillowTree]

30. What Throd said.

[JVS]

41. +1

[oldhippie]

6. 30 days in jail ....

... would seem to be about right. If you want compliance from everyone it can't be only a monetary penalty, as the rich would blow it off. You have to make it an inconvenience to get everyone's attention.

[KamaAina]

9. Having the rich blow it off could help us

[oldhippie]

10. But that wasn't thequestion of the OP

""What would it take to compel a 90%+ voter turnout, and how big and powerful and invasive will the enforcement system have to be to make it work?"

So, we want to suppress voting by certain groups? Who does that sound like?

[Jesus Malverde]

7. I think a short term in a re-education camp followed by a denouncing your parents in a tribunal...

This thread is silly.

We have too many people in Jail and many of the incarcerated and those on probation or parole can't vote. That someone would suggest making voting compulsory is completely silly and authoritarian.

[FrodosPet]

12. I tend to agree

But obviously some others think it is a great idea. I honestly don't think it would get enacted, but it is educational to see what extent people are willing to punish people over a non-violent act of personal choice that does not involve theft or fraud.

Educational and scary.

[Jesus Malverde]

14. Gotcha...

Performance art as it were.

wwoooooosh

[oldhippie]

21. I'd be careful with that "... some others think it is a great idea."

For example, although I answered your question, I don't think it's a good idea at all.

But your OP never asked if it was a good idea, so I didn't answer that.

So I would advise you to be careful assigning motives for answers to a question.

[Jesus Malverde]

22. It would have been easier to just delete your original reply.

Rationalizing it does make sense.

[oldhippie]

24. I didn't need to rationalize anything ...

And why would I delete my original reply? I answered a question with what I thought it would take. You don't seem to like the question, so my answer to you is moot. I don't care.

[joeglow3]

27. I like THIS reply.

[FrodosPet]

23. I was referring to a different thread

In that thread there was specific advocacy of compulsory voting.

But your point is noted.

[oldhippie]

25. I never looked at the other thread ...

... so I could only comment on the content of this one.

Still, it's an interesting question. It's amazing to see how many DUers are cool with an authoritarian approach to things they advocate, but other things, not so much.

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. Depends. How long between sentencing and the next election?

I kid.

The punishment should be two years in the STFU chair.

[Jenoch]

11. Could you provide a link to that thread?

I did a search and came up with several of them.

I think the idea of compulsory voting is ridiculous. If someone does not educate themselves on the candidates and the issues of their own volition, I would rather they not vote.

[FrodosPet]

15. The thread I saw advocating compulsory voting

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014791181

[Violet_Crumble]

36. Compulsory voting works for us

I've seen it called authoritarian and something like what the nazis would have done and that the uninformed would vote.

When I just checked I'm not living in anything resembling nazi germany, think our political system is superior to the US, and the election of bush and all those republican congress critters is proof that the uninformed will vote regardless.

A word of caution - mandatory voting only works if there's sausage sizzles and cake stalls at all polling stations

[ZombieHorde]

16. Pay everyone to vote instead.

Maybe $30 or so.

[nomorenomore08]

18. Hell, just make it mandatory to give them time off work. A federal law, so the red states can't

screw with things.

[ZombieHorde]

19. Perhaps making voting last more than one day would be good too. nt

[Agnosticsherbet]

17. Make it easy to vote instead of raising obstacles.

Election Day should be a paid holiday.

[nomorenomore08]

20. +1

But so many (mainly on the right) are invested in "raising obstacles" for certain voters. And the current Supreme Court, unfortunately, appears sympathetic to them.

[pinboy3niner]

26. Drawing and quartering is an effective penalty

To date, there have been no repeat offenders.

[MADem]

28. This could only work if there's a NONE OF THE ABOVE option.

I know we have "write in" but there needs to be something besides that saying "I hate them all," in essence.

Also, voting needs to be as easy as keying in a voter ID number and a few verifiable details on a computer or even a phone, without having to stand in line. It needs to be easier than using Turbo Tax Short Form. It has to impose such a light burden as to almost not be a burden at all, if we're to exact consequences for not complying. And that system has to be lock-tight, no BS, verifiably, absolutely secure.

This would be a paradigm shift for USA, too. I don't know if I like the idea of forcing people to participate. If we'd had that as a part of our culture from the beginning, that would be one thing--but we haven't had that kind of mindset at all.

Sometimes, I think that the people who aren't smart enough to realize they should vote, by not voting, are doing us a service.

I like Big Papi as a baseball player, but he came in THIRD in the mayoral race in Boston as a write-in--would I like him as the guy running city hall? We'd see that kind of thing writ large if we demanded that everyone vote.

[struggle4progress]

29. Lots of folk don't vote. Force them to vote, and we'd just get a lot of ballots with Mickey Mouse

or Dick Odor or some other silly name as a write-in candidate. It's better to find smart, informed, caring candidates you agree with and go try to get people interested in voting for them

[TreasonousBastard]

31. No prison. Waterboard the bastards...

Baptism of the voting booth.

[madinmaryland]

32. Oh, Fer fuck sake. If you don't vote, then are putting yourself out of the game.

You have no reason to complain and by default are imprisoned by your abdication of your franchise to vote and be part of the governing of the country.

[brewens]

33. An older Republican friend of mine admits he's not a guy that believes everyone should vote.

I know where he's coming from. He believes that if voters were really educated, they would vote Republican. He's really pretty moderate and the last time I talked to him, he was disgusted by the whole Bundy thing.

I actually agree that true idiots shouldn't vote but that would hurt their side more than us if it could be enforced somehow. One example I have is a friend of mine that was convinced to vote for Nader in I guess it must have been 2000? Anyway, he gets to the polling booth here in Idaho and discovers Nader is not on the ballot. He tells me he actually went over to the poll workers and asked them, why isn't Nader on here? The way he told it and knowing him, he was probably pretty confrontational about it, as if it was some kind of conspiracy or something! How could you have been informed in any way about Nader and not have known that his getting on the ballot in all 50 states was a big issue? You couldn't. For that to be a surprise to him makes him the poster boy for low information voters! That can only be topped by the old lady in Minnesota that raised hell about Michelle Bachmann not being on the ballot when she wasn't voting in her district!

You'd have a hard time convincing me that mandatory voting would always be a good thing.

[hughee99]

34. Compulsory voting forces uninformed voters to make choices they're not equipped to make,

and those choices could affect all of us. Elections might easily end up being decided based on which candidates make guest appearances on shows like American Idol, which would make it even easier for the 1% to manipulate the vote.

I'm all for everyone voting, provided everyone makes the effort to adequately inform themselves about the issues and candidates, but I don't think that's even possible.

[LittleBlue]

37. Compulsory voting is ridiculous

Part of being free is the freedom to not vote, regardless of the reason.

[pipi_k]

38. Well you can force a person

to go to a polling place, but you can't force him to vote.

In my little rural town, we have paper ballots.

If someone didn't want to vote, he would sign in, take the ballot, pretend to mark it, fold it back up, and put it into the ballot box.


As far as an actual voting machine goes, what's to stop someone from signing in, then totally skipping even going into one of those things?

And even if someone forces a person to mark a paper ballot or pull levers, what's to prevent that person from just pulling or marking whatever he wants to, without thought or care?

Is that really what people want?

Force people to vote even if it means the people being forced to do it write in their own candidates on a paper ballot (like Mickey Mouse, etc.) or start just pulling levers because they don't give a shit?

Yeah...brilliant idea.

[Jgarrick]

39. Anyone too unmotivated to vote on their own is someone I don't want voting in the first place.

[brooklynite]

40. No nation in the world jails people for failure to vote

At worst they're fined.

[FrodosPet]

42. I'm sorry. I had to push the extreme to prove a point.

It is far more important to get people to WANT to vote than it is to add even more layers of penalties to people's lives. Fining people is dissuasive to this goal, not persuasive.

If you tell people they MUST vote - you are going to get votes that damage the process, not contribute to it. You will get resentment, and possibly disruptive and even violent incidents at polling stations.

Many groups and individuals are trying to reverse the plethora of unnecessary restrictions on the lives of people. Are we really prepared to add to the police state's control palate to gain the uncertain hope of winning elections?

[McCamy Taylor]

43. No, no. This is America. Lotto tickets when you vote. It will work. Trust me. We love to gamble.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. I think the 1st Amendment pretty much puts the kabosh on any penalty for not voting.

Similarly I think it would be illegal to incentivize it, at least any further than handing out free "I Voted" stickers.

Want more people to vote? Give out coupons for free big gulps.




Or.... maybe that's not such a hot idea.