Holy shit - execution botched in Oklahoma tonight so second execution

[malaise]

stayed
Breaking on Rachel

OMFG!!!! Resign Mary Fallon - she defied the Oklahoma Supreme Court order

[onehandle]

1. Looney Governor Fallin. nt

[malaise]

4. He died of a massive heart attack after

He sat up and said something was wrong.
This is madness.

Fallon must resign - the Supreme Court tried to stop this.

[onehandle]

5. It's more important to kill a man than feed a man.

Right-wingism Prime.

[Logical]

2. Many here on the DU love the death penalty. nt

[madinmaryland]

10. There is a group dedicated to that here called the Gungeon. nt

[Ed Suspicious]

110. I wish we could lock the door on that place.

[madokie]

115. I have

or in other words I've never gone there and don't plan to. I like that we have it because it keeps some of them away from the rest of us

[nomorenomore08]

39. On a visceral level, I can understand. But this just shows that the DP is too costly for a civilized

society in many more ways than one.

[spanone]

3. k&r...

for exposure.

[alittlelark]

6. KnR

[herding cats]

7. He began breathing heavily, writhing on the gurney, clenching his teeth and straining to lift his

head off the pillow.

"There was some concern at that time that the drugs were not having that (desired) effect, and the doctor observed the line at that time and determined the line had blown," Patton said at a news conference afterward, referring to Lockett's vein rupturing.

After that, an official who was inside the death chamber lowered the blinds, preventing those in the viewing room from seeing what was happening.

Patton then made a series of phone calls before calling a halt to the execution.

"After conferring with the warden, and unknown how much drugs went into him, it was my decision at that time to stop the execution," Patton told reporters
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/oklahoma-prepares-execution-2-inmates

How is this not cruel and unusual punishment and in violation of the Eighth Amendment?

[malaise]

8. Torture

and what's more the state Supreme Court put a stay on executions because the drugs are suspect.

[herding cats]

9. There should be some legal recourse against Fallin

The states have to uphold the standards of the Eighth Amendment. There's no excuse for this!

[morningfog]

20. I could see a wrongful death suit.

[herding cats]

21. I hope the family files one then.

There should be something they can do.

[Jefferson23]

12. There is no good reason for this, none. Barbaric beyond words. n/t

[herding cats]

19. It's a sick lust for their pound of flesh.

This type of torturous abuse is inexcusable. I don't support the DP, which I admit freely, but if you can't take a person's life within the parameters set by the US Constitution then have the decency to issue stays until you're able to!

[Jefferson23]

33. Yes, agreed. DP should be abolished, the US is far behind. n/t

[Gravitycollapse]

23. It should be illegal to draw the curtains.

And I would argue that it should also be illegal to leave the viewing room without just cause. You went there to watch someone die and you should be forced to do just that regardless of how you feel after it starts or how badly it goes wrong. Watch what you came to see or don't go.

[herding cats]

30. Sometimes it's the person's family in the viewing room.

I'm torn on if they should be forced to watch if their intentions were to say goodbye and support their loved one.

They shouldn't be allowed to hide the process when it goes horribly wrong, though. They chose to commit the execution as it was done, they need to deal with others seeing the results!

[Ms. Toad]

36. That is a hard question.

As a life long opponent of capital punishment, I do not want the people who support capital punishment shielded from the reality of what they are doing.

On the other hand, I am also the sibling of someone who spent 20 years on death row. I decided it would be kinder not to tell my mother that my brother would be sedated when they killed him, because they want you alert and aware of the consequences of your actions. And 36 hours ahead of the scheduled exception (when it was halted) I had not decided whether to join my father in the viewing room). A scene like this one would have been unbearable.

[herding cats]

51. Many don't realize the family often comes to say their goodbyes.

I think at any point a family member should be allowed to leave the viewing. Which they are, and they sometimes do. It's a complicated, highly emotional situation.

I'm sorry you've had to deal with having a family member on death row for 20 years. I can imagine that has to take a toll on you in ways others cannot begin to grasp.

In this case I can't imagine how a family member would deal with what took place. I don't think I could have stayed.

[Gravitycollapse]

41. That certainly would be a major point of consideration.

And obviously I view the condemned person's family or lawyers in a different light than the others who have more voyeuristic or dubious intentions.

[herding cats]

54. I understand.

It's a complicated situation. The ones who come to watch the death for the sake of revenge are there for an entirely different reason. I understand what you meant originally. It just made me think about the others there too.

[840high]

52. When he buried his victim alive - he lost

any pity from me. The second man raped and killed an 11 month old baby.

[Beaverhausen]

57. Revenge or justice?

What they did was terrible. What happened to him tonight was also terrible. We can't continue to do this.

[herding cats]

58. That doesn't make this any less wrong.

Being offended, as a society, when someone is stretching the Eighth Amendment to the breaking point, has nothing to do with feeling sympathy for a convicted killer. For that matte neither does being opposed to the death penalty. One does not equal the other.

[840high]

63. In cases like this

I find myself not opposed to the death penalty or how it's carried out. I think of the horror those 2 victims went through.

[Major Nikon]

79. So why not just tie them down and let the victims families beat them to death?

There's a good reason why only the US and other 3rd world despotic shitholes still have the death penalty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_capital_punishment_by_country

[herding cats]

98. Your lack of response to my points in your reply, and your continuation of the same weak

Last edited Wed Apr 30, 2014, 01:19 AM - Edit history (1)

Premise, says all I need to know about your intentions here. You're just prowling about looking for someone you can disagree with. No matter their reasoning. I saw you doing the same in another thread on this topic. You don't care about any other point of view. Only yours matters because this is, to your eyes, a hot button issue people will get worked up over. Your seeking reactions, not discussion.

Well, sorry, I don't play those games. If I wanted an argument based on nothing but baiting, devoid of reasoning, with an end result being an emotional reaction, I'd be posting on Yahoo.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

68. That's SICK!!! It's one thing to decide someone has it coming...

Last edited Tue Apr 29, 2014, 11:54 PM - Edit history (1)

...but to void sympathy while the guy is being tortured???

FUCKING! SICK!

[840high]

80. Did he show sympathy for

his victim? That's fucking sick.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

82. SMH... nt

[840high]

84. I'm not reveling in

his suffering - don't put words in my mouth. I simply have no pity for him.

[micraphone]

104. But you APPROVE

That makes you just as sick as him.

THIS murder was carried out in OUR name. And we do NOT approve of murder.

Whoever carries it out.

[840high]

150. Well good for you. I have

a good reason to feel the way I do. I'm not trying to convince you. Each to his own.

[Ed Suspicious]

103. Does a murderer's actions set the standard for how we act as a society? God, I hope not.

[NuclearDem]

70. Wouldn't be a thread on the death penalty without a sick fucking response like this.

[840high]

83. How come ur not vomitting

over what he did to his victim?

[NuclearDem]

99. Right, because I find bloodlust and revenge despicable

I obviously don't care for the victim. Give me a fucking break. He was despicable, but so was the state.

[morningfog]

125. Let me try to help you understand. The state carried out the botched execution.

That means that the citizens of that state carried out the botched execution. Killings by the state are done in our name by us. We own it. So when a prisoner is executed, it is as if we collectively and individually carry out the act. It is a planned an conscious decision for us to kill another living human being. It should make us all sick for us, collectively, to engage in such barbarism and torture.

That feeling is not mutually exclusive of sympathy felt for the victims and their family. However, it was a single messed-up individual who carried out that act. It was an act that we, as citizens, had no part in. There was no collective decision.

You are free to vomit all you wish. But, when it comes to society making conscious decisions, putting someone to death should be off the table.

[Fearless]

72. An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.

Killing someone is also the easy way out for them.

[gollygee]

124. Hopefully

we have higher standards for ourselves than a murderer.

[Beausoir]

90. He was an accomplice to a girl being buried alive. He watched it happen and did nothing.

I am glad the pig suffered.

[herding cats]

102. See my post #98

You're entitled to your feelings. I respectfully disagree. Now shoo.

[Nye Bevan]

11. These medieval-style atrocities are an absolute embarrassment for the USA

in an era when the vast majority of civilized countries have abandoned this kind of barbarity.

Just end the death penalty now. Please.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

25. Republicans keep this country savage. nt

[Nye Bevan]

28. Unfortunately many Democrats support the death penalty too.

I wish President Obama would come out in opposition to it, for example. Especially since he does not have to worry about being re-elected.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

60. I think I am for the death penalty in certain cases maybe. Serial torturer-killers, for example nt

[IronGate]

61. Or maybe someone who rapes and murders a child?

I'm generally anti DP, but for someone who rapes and murders a child, well, let's just say that I wouldn't be opposed to the scumbag being put in general pop and let nature take it's course.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

75. Yup. I see children raped and sliced or beaten to a pulp or whatever, and it doesn't bring out my

understanding and compassion.

[IronGate]

81. I know we've clashed on a certain issue,

but in my job, I've seen far too many children maimed or killed that I've pretty much lost all my compassion and any sympathy for those that hurt or kill a child.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

86. Right, but there is a right wing bloodthirstiness with regard to the death penalty which sickens

the hell out of me just as much as serial killers do. And I do not accept that bloodthirsty love of the death penalty the right wing adore so much.

[IronGate]

89. I'm with you.

If the DP is going to be administered, it should be for the most heinous crimes.

[840high]

87. Same here.

[Nye Bevan]

94. How about someone who murders kids by arson?

Definitely deserving of the death penalty, right? And indeed this guy was executed for that crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham

Except that as it turns out he was very likely innocent. Oops.

[Ed Suspicious]

109. Ooops indeed. Oh well. It's the cost of doing business . . . Am I right?

:snarkasm: I loathe what the death penalty does to us. I want no killing in my name. Thankfully my state hasn't gone there yet, but repuke domination of my state government might have it headed that way.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

153. I've never heard of that case, so I'm not familiar with it. nt

[Scootaloo]

29. It's rare when you and I agree on something Nye

And when it happens, I think it's a sign from the unoverse that what we agree on is the right damn thing.

End the death penalty.

[nomorenomore08]

43. +1

This is one issue where we're 100% in agreement.

[madinmaryland]

13. Why the fuck is "The Last Word" talking about the racist NBA owner, when

there was a botched execution.

[malaise]

22. Can you believe this crap?

Rachel said they would cover it

[madinmaryland]

34. I checked the CNN website, and this was there lead story...

Nothing about "too close to call"



And of course the men being executed were African-American.

[hopemountain]

48. yes. during the last word segment

right about now.
the victim's attorney did speak on rachel's show.

[spanone]

14. Execution botched before inmate dies of heart attack; second execution postponed

McALESTER -- The execution of convicted killer Clayton Lockett was botched tonight at the Oklahoma State Penitentiary before he died of a massive heart attack. The event prompted officials to postpone a second execution scheduled for two hours later.

Lockett was given execution drugs and reacted violently, kicking and grimacing while lifting his head off the gurney to which he was strapped. He was pronounced dead at 7:06 p.m. inside the execution chamber -- 43 minutes after the process began -- Department of Corrections Director Robert Patton said.

In a media conference, Patton said Lockett's veins "exploded" during the execution, which began at 6:23 p.m. The inmate died from what Patton called a "massive heart attack." The death occurred after the execution process was halted.

Convicted killer Charles Warner was scheduled to be executed at 8 p.m. Patton said he notified the governor's office and the attorney general's office about the events and asked for a 14-day delay of Warner's execution, which was scheduled for 8 p.m.

more....http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/execution-botched-before-inmate-dies-of-heart-attack-second-execution/article_80cc060a-cff2-11e3-967c-0017a43b2370.html

[morningfog]

16. I hope the family files a wrongful death suit.

[IronGate]

49. And I hope the families of the murdered woman and 11 month old girl

file a wrongful death suit also.
I oppose the DP on general principles, but your post is ridiculous.

[Chan790]

85. The basis for the wrongful death suit...

is the inherent 8th amendment violation. There's a long-standing precedent in 8th A case-law of filing for "wrongful death as torture" in the event of botched executions resultant from flawed or unapproved methodology...it's central to how the process has been refined over the years and how failed methodology have been struck-down by the legal system.

There is no equivalent basis for wrongful death suits by victims families apart from civil cases related to the original crime. Any such suits would have had to have been filed years ago or were and have already been resolved.

[morningfog]

122. The prison comitted an act of negligence that resulted in a painful

death in an undesired way.

I don't know the story, but the victims' family could have or may have filed a civil suit against the killer.

I oppose the death penalty in absolutism, for many reasons.

[840high]

53. The family should be

ashamed they knew this man. Buried his victim alive.

[morningfog]

123. He's still a person with a family.

And this was still a botched execution. We, as a nation, should be ashamed we still condone the practice of killing.

[malaise]

17. I will never support the death penalty

This is barbarian

[Scootaloo]

31. Barbarians afforded more dignity to those they killed. n/t

[nomorenomore08]

45. The one thing I can say in favor of ancient execution methods is at least they acknowledged the

inherent brutality of killing someone. Wiki "blood eagle" sometime if you want to get slightly queasy.

[IronGate]

50. Right on Scootloo!

[morningfog]

15. Cruel and unusual. End the death penalty.

[malaise]

18. Agreed

[malaise]

26. We really should congratulate the Europeans for their sanctions on execution drugs

This has to stop

[Takket]

24. -

"Resign Mary Fallon - she defied the Oklahoma Supreme Court order"

can you elaborate on that? I know nothing about this story.

[malaise]

32. Here

http://www.bnd.com/2014/04/24/3176774/a-look-at-oklahomas-execution.html

[Takket]

47. thanks for the link and.... WOW

i'm sort of disgusted, first of all, that I had NO IDEA this was going on. The governor says the court "overstepped its bounds".

that's pretty bad... that a governor can tell the supreme court to butt out in a LEGAL matter involved with ENDING A LIFE

but what is REALLY scary is that the legislature drew up articles of impeachment against FIVE members of the court over this. HOW IS THAT NOT NATIONAL NEWS???????? The three branches of Oklahoma's government are UNRAVELING over a DEATH PENALTY issue and no one is talking about this????

the federal government should issue an IMMEDIATE moratorium on all executions until not only this DEBACLE of the messed up execution is reviewed but also an investigation into the Oklahoma state government is conducted to make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

[ejpoeta]

128. but there is an nba team owner who said racist things.

that is more important. nbc nightly news led last night with the sterling thing BEFORE the story on the deadly tornadoes. let's let that sink in for a moment. I hadn't heard anything about this oklahoma thing, except a facebook post mentioning this execution as a first with this coctail and something about cost savings. but that was on FACEBOOK. so....

[Gidney N Cloyd]

27. I'm anti-DP but how is it a vet can put a pet down gently while shit like this happens?

oN EDIT-- Not that anything would change my mind on the death penalty. I don't believe the state has the right to end a life of a person unless it's the only way to stop them from hurting anyone else.

[jeff47]

91. Vets don't actually put a pet down gently.

In the room with the pet's family, the vet gives the pet a massive dose of a sedative to put it to sleep. But it's only asleep. It's not dead.

A second injection is given into the pet's heart to actually euthanize the pet. That injection is not "gentle" to the pet, so it is usually given after the family has left. Now, the pet's so sedated we don't think it feels any pain, but the vet is inducing a massive heart attack.

[Raine1967]

100. Our vet gave that second shot while we were there.

I was actually, strangely comforted knowing our baby was gone.

That said (not in direct response to you) : There is a difference between allowing someone who is loved to die with dignity and the death penalty.

The death penalty is about exacting revenge, IMO. it is far different than putting a pet to sleep or assisted suicide.

When our girl was gone, she was gone. I saw that second shot. The vet told us what is was.

[Tree-Hugger]

108. Not exactly

Hundreds of euthanasias under my belt, unfortunately.

All steps of a euthanasia can be done in the presence of the owner, if that is what's chosen. Sometimes there are two injections, sometimes there is just the one fatal injection. The vast majority of euthanasia is done via a vein in one of the legs. Heart sticks are a last resort in those animals that are so bad off that finding a hood vein is impossible.

I'd say about 80% of owners stayed with their pets. We always explain what might happen when the euthanasia solution is given - vocalizations, odd breathing, twitching. I can count on both hands the number of times we had a complication in my 12 years in vet medicine.

When owners opted not to stay through the whole process - and most if them opted to leave while the pet was still awake, not sedated - we did not take the pet into a different room for a heart stick. The entire process was done in the same way it would be done if the owner was present.

[OwnedByCats]

114. Thank you for the clarification.

Next they'll tell you that only happens in your practice, the vast majority lie to the pet's family about the process and the vast majority have horrible complications.

[SoCalDem]

121. Not when our vet has euthanized our pets

The pets were with us, on our laps, and then the vet tech injected into the iv, and they went limp..no pain at all.. (except for US ..)

we left the room with our pet and took, them home for burial..

[OwnedByCats]

130. Pet euthanizations are typically peaceful

Rarely complications can occur, but for most it doesn't.

[Chan790]

97. Veterinary euthanasia is not always gentle.

One of my friends from college is a large animal vet out in Oklahoma. Prior to becoming a vet, he'd never owned a gun...now there's one in his kit bag. Sometimes when you euthanize large animals like horses, cows and grazing ruminants (sheep, goats, alpaca, etc.) if the drugs are old, dilute or simply have been dosed wrong (into the vial, not by him) the outcome is to induce torturous but ultimately-fatal seizures and convulsions...the gun is for delivering an immediately-lethal injury in those circumstances in order to prevent suffering.

Even small-animal euthanasia, such as what you're probably thinking of, is not without such complications. Often, only the sedative agent will be administered in the presence of the owner for this reason. You get to hold and comfort your animal as they drift into sedation where the paralytic and lethal agent are administered subsequently out of the owners presence in case there are these kinds of complications.

A large part of the comparative scarcity of incidents though results from the quantitative dosing...in animal euthanasia doses substantially larger than necessary are used to prevent these kinds of complications and sedatives are often administered. In the case of capital punishment, this is often not the case for a number of reasons...to allow the executed to remain lucid enough to make a last statement, to keep the condemned lucid enough to be consciously-aware of what is happening, to maintain the ability to reverse or halt the process after commencement in the case of a last second delay or pardon, to prevent premature death by respiratory or cardiac arrest,...

[GeorgeGist]

117. If your friend is using outdated drugs ...

he's committing malpractice.

[Chan790]

143. I don't think he does it intentionally.

The entire industry is infiltrated with fraud...people repackaging old drugs, people counterfeiting drugs, suppliers buying things off at discount shady sources and mixing them into their legitimately-sourced stocks to sell at full market-value, etc.

The drugs you have are only as good as the source that sourced them to your pharmacy or clinic, which is unfortunately often beyond your sphere of information. You trust the people who you buy from to engage in ethical practices and replace them when you determine that they are not.

[WatermelonRat]

148. A lot of drug companies are refusing to sell their products for the purpose of execution.

That's leading to shortages in the supply of the usual lethal injection drugs, meaning they either use less than they should in order to conserve it or are resorting to less reliable alternatives.

[alarimer]

35. When those companies stopped supplying the drugs, all executions should have been postponed.

I would have preferred them to be stopped altogether, because clearly there's something wrong with the substitutes.

[Amak8]

37. He buried his victim alive.

And the guy died so it couldn't have been that botched.

[HipChick]

40. Karma?

[IdaBriggs]

129. That thought went through my mind, too.

No one PLANNED for him to be "tortured" with an on-purpose heart attack (which many people die from) yet the fates decreed it so.

The world is a strange place. Despite the hand wringing, I do not see this as a reason to end the death penalty for capital crimes. Had he been "tortured" on purpose, I would have been horrified, but frankly, I am more upset about situations where mine owners do not enforce appropriate safety standards for their workers.

Peace to his victims - may his death be a comfort to their memories.

[Gravitycollapse]

44. Are you saying you think he deserved to be tortured to death?

[Demo_Chris]

67. He undoubtedly deserved just that, but that does not mean we should be doing it. nt

The

[Gravitycollapse]

77. To say someone deserves some punishment is to imply someone should do it. So who should do it...

if not us?

[Demo_Chris]

95. No, and for a number of reasons...

In any case your premise is flawed. We do not treat people based upon what they have earned, but upon our own standards of compassion and decency. When my family needed help last month a half dozen DUers insisted on helping us, not because I deserve it (lord knows I don't), and not because I am popular here (I'm defiantly not), but because THEY are awesome people. The same applies here. We decide what kind of people we are.

[Beausoir]

93. Yes. He stood by while a young girl was buried alive and he did nothing to save her.

Torture was to good for him. He got off easy.

[Jgarrick]

141. +1

[nomorenomore08]

46. Torturing him to death won't bring his victim back. Nor will executing him, for that matter.

The civilized option in this case would be life without parole.

[951-Riverside]

92. Some countries (like mexico) consider life without parole just as barbaric

In Norway, the max sentence is 21 years, Russia is 25-30 years.

[nomorenomore08]

96. In many cases I don't doubt that's true. But what of those who are a permanent danger to society?

Serial killers being the classic example, I suppose.

[951-Riverside]

88. The baby rapist/killer who was next in line should have suffered like this

Good riddance.

Maybe he'll get the news about how botched this execution went and go out feeling scared and helpless like the infant he raped and killed did.

[CBGLuthier]

133. Will that comfort you? Knowing the man is afraid to die and now gets two more weeks to worry?

If so, that is truly sad.

[avebury]

38. I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, most

Oklahomans are a pretty blood thirsty, vengeful bunch. I am really surprised they have not moved to add stoning as method of execution.

I have been reading the comments on the local news websites and the comments are insane.

I would be really surprised if Fallin does not get re-elected because if you are bat sh*t crazy you are the ideal Republican candidate in this state. I really think that she has her eye on trying to land a VP nomination and is really ratcheting up her conservative credentials. There was some talk a while back that Christie (before all his current problems) was considering her as a potential running mate if he got the Republican nomination. She has been pretty destructive as Governor.

[malaise]

119. Thanks for your post

[jtuck004]

42. "Oklahoma Is OK" n/t

[PrestonLocke]

55. It's 2014 in the land of the free

and my tax money goes to fund "death chambers."

[MFM008]

56. next it will be

chasing someone around on a platform with an axe .....

[Blue Owl]

59. Somewhere a decider is chuckling

[Jgarrick]

62. I'm far more concerned with how his victim suffered than how this monster died; to Hell with him

[Logical]

107. Classy as usual! nt

[Jgarrick]

139. Being more concerned with the suffering of innocent victims than murderers? Yeah, I'm such a jerk..

[840high]

151. +1

[Snarkoleptic]

64. I hope that Governor Fallin lives a long life with a rapidly evaporating political career.

I also hope that she's haunted,until her final days, with the horrific weight of this botched execution continually on her mind.
Her political ambition is an awful, mean-spirited and atavistic testament to the ugliness of the current low-brow mentality of the RepubliClown party.
Humanity is recoiling in horror at how ugly and dumb we are.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

65. Her Base is cheering this.

[Cleita]

66. This really makes me throw up. n/t

[adieu]

69. I say, if a prisoner doesn't die during an execution

the state can't try it again. You get one shot, so to speak.

[jimlup]

71. Fuck...

Oklahoma committed a crime and the Governor is responsible.

What a bunch of sadists these fucking stupid republicans are.

[Jamastiene]

73. He would have been better off if they just shot him.

Damn, it took THAT LONG to pronounce him dead, behind CLOSED curtains? Something fishy went down there.

And for those who are still pro death penalty, I hope you one day see the light like I did. It is hypocrisy on the part of the state for saying someone was wrong to do something, then turn right around and do the same thing to them. It is cruel and unusual punishment. It does not deter crime, nor can it bring the victims back. It is just another blood sport for those that are for it. It puts the US more in line with the likes of the Taliban than it does with civilized countries.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

138. +1

[Fearless]

74. I find it sad

The staggering lack of higher brain function of those in general, but also in this thread, that think the death penalty is humane, justified, or otherwise acceptable.

WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

[oldandhappy]

76. This is a horror.

The firing squad would have been more humane.

[LeftyMom]

78. Wow, this thread's bringing them out of the woodwork.

[Ed Suspicious]

106. Disheartening to say the least. I thought revenge killing and bloodthirst were the province of the

other side. You know, the "Palin/baptism torture" side. Sometimes I think the tent is too damned big.

[Jamastiene]

111. That is exactly what it is too.

It is blood lust.

What's even worse for the second death row inmate in this case is that if the courts find lethal injection unconstitutional, the next "choices" will be the electric chair or firing squad. Oklahoma, apparently, wrote that into their law in case lethal injection is ever found unconstitutional.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/methods-execution?scid=8&did=245#state
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_chair

[morningfog]

126. The death penalty always does. And ALWAYS, without exception,

the common refrain is "well, I am generally anti-DP, but not for THIS GUY! Look at w3hat he did."

You are either anti-death penalty, or you are in favor of state sanctioned killing. The disingenusousness is bad enough, but the added bloodlust is just embarrassing. I take solace in the fact that death advocates are on the wrong side of history. The days of the death penalty in the US are numbered.

[Boreal]

101. As if these stories aren't horrible enough

what the fuck kind of doctor attends an execution? They take an oath to "do no harm". Are these the bottom of the class in medical school? Ugh, makes me sick.

Worse yet, after the Oklahoma City bombing, federal legislation was passed to enable the feds to enact the DP where they weren't able to before. I live in a non DP state and there was a local murder where the feds tried to override Michigan law and get the DP because the murder was in a national forest. They were not successful.

When there is no doubt about the guilt of the convict (and there is often doubt!), I understand why DUers approve of the DP when the crimes are so horrific but I still think the DP is wrong.

[PeteSelman]

105. You don't have this problem with a bullet behind the ear.

Or a nice sharp axe.

By trying to make the DP more humane, people have actually made it worse.

Hanging, headsman or just a bullet in the head are much faster and more efficient. Why complicate things with all these drugs and whatnot?

[Niceguy1]

112. if this was the dude who raped and murdersd

The 11 month old baby then it was probably a function of karma.

[phleshdef]

113. I understand the "who gives a f*ck" emotional response. But those folks are also missing the point.

This issue isn't about the guy who was being executed, its about the practice of execution itself and Constitutional matters involving cruel and unusual punishment. Its also about the section of people who get the death penalty when they weren't actually guilty, because there is no 100% perfect justice system when human beings are involved. This is bigger than this particular person. He just happened to be the person subjected to the injustice... and that's what its about, the injustice, not him.

[micraphone]

116. Thank you

'Nuff said.

[malaise]

118. +1,000

[pinboy3niner]

120. Even if it were done humanely, it would still be wrong. nt

[morningfog]

127. Agreed. Our acceptence of killing should not turn on the method or the cleanliness

of taking a life. If that is one's consideration, it has taken on another layer of morbidity.

[Swede Atlanta]

131. I hope constitutional scholars recognize this for what this is.....

Last edited Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:04 AM - Edit history (1)

this action by the governor of Oklahoma is nothing short of a constitutional crisis.

I haven't followed the details but on Rachel's show last night she said the Supreme Court of the State issued a stay pending disclosure of the contents/process and sources for the drugs to be used as defense counsel for both men had reason to believe the planned drugs/process would inflict significant pain.

Then a state representative said he was going to bring an action in the legislature to impeach all of the justices of the Court. At that point the Court caved and lifted their stay which then allowed these two executions to be scheduled back-to-back, one at 1800 hours and the next at 2000. It is kind of like the theaters that have to allow time to get the viewers from the 1800 show out, clean up the theater, re-roll the film (I know it is all digital today) and get ready for the next show.

During the first execution the prisoner sat up and said something like "something is wrong here", licked his lips and then started to have seizures. They rushed him off to a hospital but he died of a massive heart attack either enroute or at the hospital.

First of all I don't know about you but, regardless of the crime committed by a person, objectively, killing them by any means is arguably "cruel and unusual punishment". But if you are going to kill them then, again despite if they inflicted great pain on their victims and the pain of the victims' families and friends, it needs to not rise to the level of cruel and unusual punishment.

Giving someone drugs that then causes them to have seizures and then die of a massive heart attack is cruel and unusual punishment in my book.

But the botched execution is one constitutional issue.

The one I am most concerned about is the governor refusing the order of her state's highest court. This is indeed a constitutional crisis. If we are now going to have state executives begin to defy court orders we are lost. The courts have no mechanism to enforce their orders or prevent actions by an executive that are contrary to their orders. There is a reliance on civilized, ordered constitutional society. In this country it has long been recognized that court orders must be obeyed.

This was the same situation during the Nixon Watergate period when he defied an order of the SCOTUS. It teed up a constitutional crisis. Congressional action to begin impeachment hearings was necessary to get the scumbag to step down.

This is where we are headed I'm afraid. Vigilante governors (and potentially a future Repub president) will begin to act contrary to the rule of law and orders of the relevant court. When that happens we are lost. It is time to move to Somalia or somewhere because we are no better than they are.

I plan to call the governor's office and ask her to resign effective immediately. That will never happen but this is serious, very serious.

[malaise]

136. Governor of Oklahoma

[Swede Atlanta]

140. Thanks Malaise...

I knew it was Oklahoma and not Arkansas but for some reason when I was writing my post Arkansas popped into my head. I have corrected.

[malaise]

155. Cool

[n2doc]

142. If they lifted their stay , how is this a crisis?

And unfortunately, it looks like the Legislature has Fallin's back. Screwed up for sure.

[Swede Atlanta]

149. According to the information I have

not only was the legislature going to consider articles of impeachment against them but as well the governor had stated she was going to ignore the court's order and execute anyway.

I would welcome more nuanced information on this point. Whether it was the threat of impeachment or the governor's stated intention to ignore their order that led them to lift the stay isn't clear. Perhaps it was a little bit of both. In my mind justices worthy of respect would have stood their ground. If they were impeached then let the political chips fall where they may. If the governor proceeded against their order then this is indeed a constitutional crisis.

[Lyric]

132. I've said this before and I'll say it again.

My Dad was murdered. Horribly, brutally, murdered. Tortured for hours and then finally beaten to death with a tire iron.

The man who killed him is in jail for life, and I wouldn't want it any other way. Seeing that man die wouldn't bring my family relief or peace. It would just add a few more kids to the world who no longer have a father. Even a father in prison is better than no father at all. I'd give ANYTHING for my Dad to be alive and in prison for life right now, because at least I could still see him, hear his voice, smell his scent. His grandkids could still hear his stories. Those are things I'd give anything for. The man who killed my Dad, he has kids too. They were tiny when he went to prison, so him being in prison is all they've ever really known. Even still--they still HAVE him.

Call me a bleeding heart, but I am unwilling to destroy yet ANOTHER family and make even MORE kids fatherless to satisfy a vengeful bloodlust that wouldn't do a damned thing to bring Dad back. It wouldn't ease the pain. It wouldn't heal the wound. What's the point of barbarism if it doesn't even do anyone any good? If killing him would bring Dad back, I'd be all for it. But it won't.

And more importantly...Dad himself was against the death penalty. He was a 'Nam vet who had way too much experience with what state-sponsored killing does to people--both the victims and the people who have to carry it out. He used to say, unless and until we can deliver perfect 100% justice, without mistakes and without errors, then we have no right to impose sentences that cannot be taken back. Someone falsely imprisoned can at least be exonerated and given money to start life again. Someone falsely executed is gone forever. Better to let thousands of guilty people sit in jail for life, alive, than to risk executing even ONE innocent person.

Maybe we should pass laws saying that anyone who participates in an execution that is later determined to be unjustified, ought to be charged with homicide. Manslaughter at the very least. And if the prosecution hid or withheld exculpatory evidence, they ought to be charged with capitol murder. I wonder how many executions we'd have every year if nobody was willing to bet their OWN lives on the verdict always being correct.

[malaise]

137. My favorite cousin was murdered

We all shared your view - we will never support the death penalty

[OwnedByCats]

134. I think if one is not sure about the death penalty

One should probably ask themselves the following questions. If the decision were up to YOU, would your judgement be death? If YOU had to pull the switch or administer lethal injection, would you?

See it's one thing when other people are making that decision, quite another if it's one you have to make. I certainly understand the emotion of not having sympathy for someone who brutally killed another person, most often their victims suffered worse. The problem is it's a bit hypocritical isn't it? Two wrongs also don't make a right. I know the motivations for killing are different ... the murderer did it for their reasons, we do it as a punishment or revenge if you like, still does not make it the right thing to do.

Then you've got a situation where that person might be innocent. We don't just execute those who admit their crimes. I'm sure we have executed innocent people before.

[99Forever]

135. It seems inhumanity has a following even here.

What awful people walk among us.

[Blue_Tires]

147. +1

The U.S. has always had a pathologically sadistic mindset when it comes to law and order...

And some of the posters in this thread are the first ones to bash the Saudis or Iranians or whoever when there's a "Saudi judge sentences so-and-so to a brutally harsh and violent punishment..." They're also the first ones to unilaterally bash Washington for the 'CIA torture' stories...

[raptor_rider]

144. I don't understand

Executing a prisoner for the worst crimes to commit against another human being is horrible. However, when Michael Vick was caught in his pit bull dog fighting ring, a lot of you who oppose the DP were calling for him to be put in the fighting ring with the dogs to fight to his death. This is pot calling the kettle black you all. Damn, might get my first deleted post here, or even banned for this comment. However, take a look at what you all are saying.

[malaise]

145. See if you find me on those Vick threads n/t

[backscatter712]

146. Not that I'm for the death penalty, but maybe they're overthinking the cocktails.

Better to keep it simple.

Two substances.

The first is a basic sedative used to induce unconsciousness. Can be administered by a doctor, since it's technically not what kills - its purpose is to keep the execution humane.

The second should just be one insanely lethal substance. Cyanide. Kills quick, with not so much fuss. Administering it is simple enough that a guard could do it, so a doctor doesn't have to violate his or her oath. And it's only administered after it's obvious the prisoner's unconscious.

Alternatively, for the sadistic in the US, and here on DU, they could use The Strangler from Game of Thrones...

[mucifer]

152. Everyone react different to medications. Even in hospice many suffer in their final hours.

Death often isn't pretty. Sometimes we can't control suffering. Gasping in the final hour isn't uncommon. I have watched a lot of people die. Usually meds control it. But, not always.

[Nye Bevan]

154. Doesn't cyanide cause foaming at the mouth, seizures, etc.?

They don't want to use anything that might upset the witnesses. The most humane method of all would probably be a bullet to the back of the head, but the witnesses certainly would not appreciate seeing brains flying all over the place.