Obama Says Critics Suffer "Lack Of Knowledge" Of Secret TPP Treaty

[HomerRamone]

IF that were true, whose fault would it be? But it's NOT...

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/dave-johnson/55680/obama-says-critics-suffer-lack-of-knowledge-of-secret-tpp-treaty

the president said critics are uninformed and even believing “conspiracy theories.” He said people should “wait and see what’s in the agreement” before criticizing it. He also dismissed criticism because it “reflects lack of knowledge of what is going on in the negotiations.”

<...>

The TPP talks are secret. There are a number of “advisors” (almost all are corporate representatives) who have access to what is being negotiated but the advisors are pledged to secrecy. The public is not a party to the negotiations, nor are our representatives in Congress.

<...>

What we do know about TPP largely comes from leaks. And what has been leaked is cause for serious concern. Last year Wikileaks obtained the TPP chapter covering patents, copyrights, trademarks, industrial design and other “intellectual property.” This chapter was updated as of last August and may have improved since, but it is no “conspiracy theory” to be afraid of what was in the August version.

<...>

The treaty will likely be rushed through Congress with a rigged “fast track” process that sets aside the constitutional responsibility of Congress to carefully consider and debate treaties. Fast track even sets aside the constitution’s requirement that two-thirds of the Senate agree. All of this occurs while corporations use their tremendous wealth and power to influence what the public and members of Congress understand about the treaty.

This is start to finish a process designed to cut democracy out of the equation.

[upaloopa]

1. When did he say this and where?

I find it hard to think that someone would say that knowing the talks are secret and that he wanted fast track approval.

[HomerRamone]

3. The link is in the article (more than once)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/04/27/joint-press-conference-president-obama-and-prime-minister-najib-malaysia

[msanthrope]

5. Do you have the exact question and answer? Why not post the primary source? nt

[HomerRamone]

8. Why not do a little reading to answer your own questions--is this a doctoral dissertaion? nt

[msanthrope]

16. im on a smartphone...can you post the whole question and

answer you are referencing???

[HomerRamone]

18. I hope another excerpt which is a quote doesn't violate DU rules

Q And to the Prime Minister, the TPP -- I know you talked about it -- it’s been generating some protests here in your country, including another one today -- chief concern being some worries, some higher costs of medical supplies in particular. I was wondering if you can comment on those protests and the concern that somehow you’re being bullied into the TPP by the United States. Do you feel that way on that front? Thank you.

<...>

PRESIDENT OBAMA:

<...>

Even though it wasn’t directed at me, I am going to say one thing about TPP -- this notion somehow that some protests here might indicate U.S. bullying. Keep in mind, I’ve got protests back home from my own party about TPP. So there’s never been a trade deal in which somebody is not going to at some point object because they’re fearful of the future or they’re invested in the status quo. And I think it’s just very important for everybody to wait and see what exactly is the agreement that has been negotiated before folks jump to conclusions.

If you take an issue like drugs, for example, the United States does extraordinary work in research and development, and providing medical breakthroughs that save a lot of lives around the world. Those companies that make those investments in that research oftentimes want a return, and so there are all kinds of issues around intellectual property and patents, and so forth.

At the same time, I think we would all agree that if there’s a medicine that can save a lot of lives, then we’ve got to find a way to make sure that it’s available to folks who simply can’t afford it as part of our common humanity. And both those values are reflected in the conversations and negotiations that are taking place around TPP. So the assumption somehow that right off the bat that’s not something we’re paying attention to, that reflects lack of knowledge of what is going on in the negotiations.

But my point is you shouldn’t be surprised if there are going to be objections, protests, rumors, conspiracy theories, political aggravation around a trade deal. You’ve been around long enough, Chuck -- that’s true in Malaysia; it’s true in Tokyo; it’s true in Seoul; it’s true in the United States of America -- and it’s true in the Democratic Party.

So I continue to strongly believe, however, that this is going to be the right thing to do -- creating jobs, creating businesses, expanding opportunity for the United States. And it’s going to be good for countries like Malaysia that have been growing rapidly but are interested in making that next leap to the higher-value aspects of the supply chain that can really boost income growth and development.

[msanthrope]

20. thank you...i agree with the President... a lot of angst here on DU is

over lack of knowledge....take a look at the first posts on thiz thread, and you will see what I mean...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024550863


fyi...du rules... generally copyrighted material can't be posted over four paragraphs... but whitehouse.gov, court decisions, other governmental documents are not copyrighted.... you can post them at will.

[HomerRamone]

23. And after reading that discussion, I agree with those who disagreed with you there. Sorry.

And to quote Dave Johnson again, "The TPP talks are secret. There are a number of 'advisors' (almost all are corporate representatives) who have access to what is being negotiated but the advisors are pledged to secrecy. The public is not a party to the negotiations, nor are our representatives in Congress.

"So it is not entirely fair for President Obama to dismiss the concerns of critics for having a 'lack of knowledge' of what is being negotiated. And marginalizing citizens as purveyors of 'conspiracy theories' just because they are concerned that the effects of this trade agreement might compound the damage done by previous agreements is out of bounds."

[msanthrope]

24. Indeed...agreeing with a poster who blamed the President for a law passed 16

years ago kind of proves my point....there's a lack of knowledge out there....

So I'll take the side of the Nobel Laureate in Economics...it's just not that big a deal...

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/krugman/2013/12/12/tpp/

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/02/28/opinion/krugman-no-big-deal.html?referrer=

[HomerRamone]

33. Misleading title if you read Krugman's article

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140228/08030526388/krugman-gets-informed-changes-his-tune-tpp.shtml

"Late last year, we were dismayed by a Paul Krugman opinion piece in the NY Times in which he judged the TPP based on how it might impact free trade, saying he didn't understand why people were so upset about it. After lots of people called him out on that, including other economists who highlighted that the problems of TPP have little to do with "free trade" but with exporting questionable regulations and giving up corporate sovereignty, Krugman admitted to knowing little of the details and promising to spend more time reviewing them.

"He's now done so and put forth a revised opinion on the TPP, in which he more or less admits that it's not a very good agreement...at least he now recognizes that it's not about trade, but about helping out a few big companies"

[msanthrope]

35. Um, what? You have Krugman's actual article in front of you, plain as day, but you

go to commentary on that article rather than the primary source?

I am puzzled why you didn't quote Krugman to make your point about....Krugman.

Techdirt has an interesting opinion on what he wrote..... without actually quoting what he wrote...

[HomerRamone]

36. I'm done quibbling about sources, and it's not my fault you're not on an adequate device

You're going to keep worshipping no matter what, anyway

[HomerRamone]

9. The quote is IN the article I posted--did you check? nt

[Enrique]

10. the official white house transcript is not a good enough source?

for what Obama said at a press conference? what kind of insanity is this?

[msanthrope]

15. Its an awesome source....but as im on a phone, can't scroll properly. this is a courtesy

I'd provide....the excerpt he is referencing...

[L0oniX]

2. OFFS

[HomerRamone]

4. Obama something Syndrome? nt

[Enrique]

6. I predict a politicususa.com headline

"OBAMA EVISCERATES RIGHT WING TALKING POINTS!!!!!!!"

[Capt. Obvious]

19. LOL

It's coming.

[think]

7. Publish it and put the whole thing up on WhiteHouse.gov

That'd end the speculation. No?.....

[cantbeserious]

11. Well Then - Stop The Coverup - Make All Negotiations Public

eom

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. Of course we do. n/t

[GeorgeGist]

13. Nice partner you got there, Barack.

Brunei adopts sharia law amid international outcry




http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/01/world/asia/brunei-sharia-law/index.html

[merrily]

47. One of the most disgusting men on the planet.

Some years ago, when Republicans would try to justify Bush, they would talk about what a bad guy Saddam Hussein was. And my repy would always be, "So is the Sultan of Brunei, but we didn't invade his country." IOW, he was my rhetorical go to for one of the worst heads of state I could name.

[alp227]

56. It's true that Brunei is part of the TPP. BUT...

source: http://www.ustr.gov/countries-regions/southeast-asia-pacific/brunei-darussalam

Given all the right wing "OBAMA A MUSLIM" smears I think this post is pretty damn awkward. Could you at least edit the photo out?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

14. 'Wait and see' our fait accompli?

If we 'wait and see' all we get to do is complain about how we've already been screwed.

We need to be able to see BEFORE, so that we don't get sold down the river to our multinational corporate overlords.

[GoneFishin]

27. Yeah. Then we'll have to "look forward, not backwards". What weasel tactics.

[merrily]

45. Does your experience tell you that seeing it before would make a difference?

That hasn't been my observation.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

48. Possibly. Not always.

But it certainly helps to mobilize opposition when you know you're being screwed over. Given the chance, politicians do actually prefer not to be tied directly to screwing over the people until after they can simply shrug and say 'too late'.

[merrily]

50. I never saw opposition mobilized during this administration as it was to Obamacare.

On the right, they said they didn't want it at all. (Apparently have changed their minds since, but that is not the point.) On the left, people were on hands and knees for a strong public option.

We got what had been baked in meetings in the WH before the bill ever got to Baucus.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

52. Shrug.

I prefer not to be completely nihilistic in my view of politics. If nothing the public does truly does matter, then there's no point in voting, or even talking about politics. I still have hopes we haven't gotten to that point.

[merrily]

57. The public can do plenty, but signing email petitions and calling their Rep are

not among the more effective things. Worse than ineffective, in fact, because of both wasting time and also creating a false sense that one has done something that matters.

IMO, the sooner we accept that, the sooner we can get to doing stuff that has a better shot at making a difference.

[atreides1]

17. There's an easy fix for that "Lack of knowledge"

Tell us what this treaty contains and how it will effect us!

[grasswire]

21. He seems to sincerely think we should trust him.

The WH bubble must be impenetrable.

[merrily]

44. Our trust is irrelevant to TPP.

Besides, I think he remains confident about winning us over with a smile or something.

But, mostly, we irrelevant in this.

[Scuba]

22. Two reasons to be against it: 1) It's secret and 2) The advisors are almost all corporate shills.

Sorry, Barack, but I don't trust you, or anyone else, on this, or anything.

[FiveGoodMen]

25. "You don't know what's in it and I won't tell you so ... it's all your fault"

This from a mother-fucking DEMOCRATIC president?!?!?!

[nationalize the fed]

28. he said his policies are republican from the '80s

so he's truthful about that at least. Same team, different jerseys.

He could tell people to run head first into a brick wall
and some would ask how fast

[FiveGoodMen]

34. His positions on surveillance and extra-judicial executions are republican from the '00s

(i.e. much WORSE)

[Lasher]

64. Republican from the '80s = I am Ronald Reagan

Do you trust a Democratic president who thinks he's Ronald Reagan? I don't.

[LittleBlue]

26. We should wait until the agreement is all but passed before complaining

Doncha know that's how it works, guys

[Ichingcarpenter]

31. I hope everything will turn out ok

I'm convinced after everything

[Maedhros]

46. RE: the politics of "hope"

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_hope_diet_would_the_tea_party_fall_for_this/

At any rate, “hope” is a virtue they mainly recommend for you, the Democratic voter; with their funders and bundlers, the relationship is a little more contractual. For them our Democratic leaders undertake to perform certain actions; it is only for the rank and file that they recommend a diet of wishes. If we complain about this state of affairs, they will no doubt tell us that results in this material world aren’t everything. There’s something philosophical and ennobling about hoping for things. “Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him,” says Job of the Almighty.

When confronting our earthly leaders, however, the situation ought to be a little different. We shouldn’t have to hope. We should expect politicians to deliver.

[Ichingcarpenter]

55. A holding position, to keep the masses from truly rebelling.

‘I’m hungry, mummy, can I have some hope, please?’

’I’m so sorry, darling, you can’t have hope today, only tomorrow – hope is always tomorrow.’

‘So will I eat tomorrow, mum?’

‘We can hope so now, dear, but when we get to tomorrow, we can only hope it’s the next day.’

On and on it goes.



Hope is like riding a carousel horse; no matter how fast you go you never get closer to the one in front. The idea, however, is to persuade you to stay on the horse, despite the inevitable disappointment, in the ‘hope’ that things will change. But they don’t because the very system is designed to prevent it.


Sting..... Politicians.....They all seem like game show hosts to me

[frylock]

59. and then we just need to shut the fuck up because palin or something

[GoneFishin]

29. K & R

[aggiesal]

30. It's a "Secret TPP Treaty" ...

Of course we're going to have a "Lack Of Knowledge".

Don't make it secret, and we won't have a "Lack Of Knowledge".

We're just that stupid.

[tularetom]

32. "Obama says his is ‘most transparent administration' ever"

So there, I guess that pretty much settles that.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/283335-obama-this-is-the-most-transparent-administration-in-

[JEB]

37. Such awesome transparency,

I can't see it.

[SamKnause]

40. Thanks, I needed that !!!

If I hear the word transparency out of the mouth of another politician, pundit, or media person I am going to vomit.

[historylovr]

38. K & R.

[OnyxCollie]

39. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

We need to pass it to know what's in it.

[merrily]

41. Why the secrecy, Mr. President? The government gets to keep secrets, citizens don't?

Yet the government does no have Bill of Rights protections, but citizens do.

Does no one official see the flaws in this, not to mention the irony?


If you are proud of TPP, if you can convince Americans that it--all of it--is good for them, why the secrecy?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. Since our government won't tell us what it's doing so we can be informed...Paging Edward Snowden!

[truebrit71]

43. So stop discussing it behind closed doors...

...Jeez I thought this guy was supposed to be some sort of Ninja Chess Player...no?

[geretogo]

49. Every trade agreement has been a failure since and including NAFTA . Why keep racing to the bottom ?

Last edited Thu May 1, 2014, 03:42 PM - Edit history (1)

[villager]

51. "We had to destroy the village in order to save it"

A fine tautological tradition, that...

[pa28]

53. The classification language in the leaked docs says FOUR YEARS of waiting before release.

Four years after the agreement is in force.

http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/tpp-10feb2011-us-text-ipr-chapter.pdf

Opponents would have to be fools to be satisfied with an answer of "just wait". For the sake of the public interest I hope the complete text leaks out tomorrow.

[colsohlibgal]

54. Huh?

You work overtime to keep it secret so how good could it be for most of us? Not so much apparently. Just another sell out to rich corporations and people.

Another democrat president operating center right and that's been a huge problem. We need another JFK, who told US Steel to stuff it and was ready to stop the war machine - or another FDR. Two very wealthy presidents who worked for the common folks.

[JEB]

58. We also suffer a lack of knowledge about drone killings.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024888668

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/04/29

We need more whistle blowers to move our country back towards democracy.

[MisterP]

60. he's not even listening to himself anymore, is he?

[grasswire]

61. he oughta spend a couple of hours on liberal message boards.

Just to get some feedback.

[MisterP]

62. isn't that the whole point of interns since 1997?

[jwirr]

63. That is exactly what we have said. The corporatists sat down in another secret meeting and wrote

up a trade agreement that is also secret. And anyone who thinks we are interested in it without knowing exactly what it says is not listening.

[socialist_n_TN]

65. Kick for the irony of the headline alone......

Neo-liberals every one of them.

[TheKentuckian]

66. Come on down to smiling Barack's Used Car Lot. I see why the blood lust level reaction now,

Last edited Fri May 2, 2014, 04:55 PM - Edit history (1)

too close to bone using the neo - Bircher swing of the TeaPubliKlans as cover to advance the corporate agenda.

Flim flam man extraordinaire, who the fuck says something like that while fighting tooth and nail to make damn sure it stays just that way? Somebody trying to get one over is who.