Look folks, this whole Toll Road thing is easy. Just do what Washington DC does!

[cthulu2016]

The Washington DC beltway system was largely rebuilt during 2008-2012 to create a two-track system.

Ordinary people drive on the beltway at no charge. But special people pay to use special beltway lanes that were designed and built to provide speedy and un-congested driving for special people so that special people wouldn't have to sit around in traffic with the "takers."

There are even electronic a la carte signs. If traffic sucks and you want to zip ahead of everyone to the I-66 junction, that costs $0.90... or $0.35, or $1.60. It's computerized and changes all the time based on how full the club is... er, I mean how heavy the traffic is.



It's like first class. And oh so fair... in it's majesty, the rich and poor alike pay the same fee for cutting in line.

EZ-Pass... get it? It might mean a pass you buy to use the lanes, or how EZ it is to Pass les autres.


I do not know what the effect on traffic would have been to widen the beltway to six lanes, versus keeping it four lanes and then adding two deluxe lanes for paying customers.


But in any event, it's here.

I can only see two needed improvements. First, it needs a logo character. There should be a Maitre-de with his hand out on all the signs, winking and pulling aside a curtain with his free hand.

Second, it shouldn't be entirely about money. It should be like an exclusive night-club where some hot women and celebrities get whisked to the head of the line. Maybe really hot models of car could drive for free. Or by adding facial recognition software to the ubiquitous cameras we should be able to identify the hottest drivers. (They are already called the HOT lanes, for High Occupancy Toll)

[tkmorris]

1. They do the whole beltway that way now?

It's been some years since I left D.C. but I recall that toll thing existing just up around the I-270 interchange, over to around the Cabin John bridge. I seem to remember I-395 had extra lanes within the Beltway, the kind that are northbound in the morning and southbound in the evening, but I thought those were HOV lanes rather than tolled.

[cthulu2016]

2. On the Virginia side. I don't know what happens past 270 on the MD side

[FSogol]

3. You are describing HOT (High Occupancy Toll) lanes. The rates are variable

based on traffic conditions on the roads us poor schlubs that stick to. The other day, I was in McLean and the HOT fee to take the highway to Springfield was $7.10.

The entire system is privatized and they are losing money because less than 16% of the commuters use the lanes. Total taxpayer giveaway to the rich and to some private company. Putting inbound and outbound HOV lanes would have been a better option.

[cthulu2016]

5. Thanks.

In light of your reply I edited the OP to reflect that the price is "dynamic"

[FSogol]

10. They are currently extending HOT lanes from Springfield to Stafford.

I shudder to think what a trip from Stafford to DC would cost during a typical backed up day. That's a 45 mile trip that usually takes 1-1/2 hours. $18-25?

[1000words]

4. Pffft ... Roads.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

6. I-95 in Miami does this too.

I was skeptical at first, but it did actually help to alleviate traffic, for what it's worth.

[cthulu2016]

9. Would simply having the lanes open alleviate traffic?

Extra lanes will always alleviate congestion, the question is how it is determined what cars are in the extra lanes.

It seems that if there is a lane X that is under-utilized then lane X is not alleviating congestion as much as it should.

The original idea was to privilege cars with multiple passengers. By having HOV lanes that mis-used the capacity of the HOV lanes (not allowing them to relieve as much congestion as simply having them be open lanes) it would social-engineer car-pooling and have the result of of reducing overall demand, so the intentional creation of congestion (which under-utilizing an existing lane is) was to encourage behaviors that would (it was dreamt) reduce congestion for all down the road.


But what we are talking about here does not encourage any behavior other than having money. So it cannot possibly reduce congestion more than just opening the lanes to all.

Unless the reduction of congestion is accomplished through discouraging poor people from using the road. "Poor person" is now equivalent to the previous "single-occupancy vehicle"

The argument would have to be this: We cannot afford to add two more lanes. But if we allowed two for-profit lanes that would steer some rich traffic onto those two lanes that otherwise could not exist.

If we accept that—that extra lanes can only come to be through a caste system—then yes, it could alleviate congestion. Otherwise, it just creates two lanes that are underutilized, by definition. (Nobody would pay to drive on lanes that were not under-utilized.)

[Tommy_Carcetti]

11. Well, I'll qualify it.

The lanes certainly help those using them. Not sure if they have any impact on the other lanes. No lanes were removed....the new toll lanes were added. So it might be a wash, or it might be a slight alleviation.

I have used them if I need to get to downtown in a hurry. So if you can afford them, they can be handy. If you can't..well, I guess they are useless. They have been nicknamed "Lexus Lanes" by some.

[cthulu2016]

12. I edited while you were replying -- more precise now

I edited to specify the assumptions required to make it a de-congesting approach.

And if we stipulate that the only way the extra lanes could possibly come to be is as rich-lanes then yes, rich-lanes would reduce congestion.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

13. I use them occasionally

Live near the Beltway in Springfield, work in Reston, take the Beltway to the Dulles Toll Road.

I use the exactly opposite that most people do...if the toll is $5-$7 to the Dulles Toll Road, then I know there will be a couple of short traffic stoppages, but nothing major, so I'll use the free lanes and be at work in about 35 minutes.

If the toll is $8-$10, then I know that if I don't use the lanes, it will take 1-2 hours, so I'll pay for the lanes. Doesn't happen often.

[hfojvt]

7. I sorta went through Toronto that way in 1999

Except the Expressway was free. There were 3 or 4 lanes that were regular and three lanes that were express.

It wasn't bad, although I quickly found out, that just like in America, you do NOT want to pay attention to the 90 kph speed limit unless you want to get blown off the road.

I did it for a few miles, got chewed up in some clusterfu#%s and then said "okay, 65 it is, then".

My uncle tells me from experience though, that Canadian speeding tickets are nothing to sneeze at.

[Savannahmann]

8. Interesting idea.

So would a midlife crisis guy in a Porsche 911 pay more or less than a Hollywood elite in a limo in your scenario?

[MohRokTah]

14. Wow, I can afford $1.65

I'M FUCKING RICH!!!! (according to the OP)

[cthulu2016]

16. Eric Cartman

[CTyankee]

15. CT got rid of its tolls in the late '80s because of a horrendous accident at one...

there is talk now about re-instating them.

I think tolls lead to more congestion and pollution as cars idle in long lines. Public roads are a public good and need to be supported by state taxes...